Hey guys and gals just curious to what the power difference is between an auto and a manual of the same type of magna in both sheer power (kw) and drag times....?

just curious to which one would win and by how much?

Eg. Man TF vs Auto TE

Ta!

Man TF vs Auto TE


I'm going to assume you mean the same car just Auto vs Manual (i.e. TE Executive Manual vs TE Executive Automatic)

If so......:) :D lol :bowrofl:

The same model uses the same engine, there is no difference in power or torque at all. Absolutely nothing. The only changes are when you get to the VRX/Ralliart. The VRX is up 4(?)kW and 10(?)nm and the Ralliart is up 10(?)kW and 40(?)nm. I'm not really sure.

Going from a TJII Exec with 4spd auto, to a TJII Exec with 5spd manual, I picked up about 20kw at the wheels on a dyno. This surprised the hell out of me, but was supported by some fellow members who performed manual conversions on their auto magnas.

The main differences are the closer gear ratios and relatively short final drive of the 5spd manual transmission vs. the 4spd auto transmission.

Stock vs. Stock, an 5spd manual magna with good driver / clutch should be able to run the quater mile between 0.5 - 1.0 seconds quicker than the equivalant 4spd auto magna. The difference is sligtly less for the 5spd auto models, but the manual will still be quicker.

I'm going to assume you mean the same car just Auto vs Manual (i.e. TE Executive Manual vs TE Executive Automatic)

If so......:) :D lol :bowrofl:

The same model uses the same engine, there is no difference in power or torque at all. Absolutely nothing. The only changes are when you get to the VRX/Ralliart. The VRX is up 4(?)kW and 10(?)nm and the Ralliart is up 10(?)kW and 40(?)nm. I'm not really sure.
That's at the ENGINE, chuck an auto/manual on the dyno and you'll get different power outputs at the wheels.

But the general rule of thumb is that a 5sp manual in any magna, will beat it's auto counter part. The 5sp auto would have to come close, but still probably in the middle between the 4spd and 5sp manual.

As black beard said, 5sp manual will be about 1 sec quicker over the 1/4 mile than the 4 spd, and about .5 sec quicker than the 5 spd auto.

That's at the ENGINE, chuck an auto/manual on the dyno and you'll get different power outputs at the wheels.

But the general rule of thumb is that a 5sp manual in any magna, will beat it's auto counter part. The 5sp auto would have to come close, but still probably in the middle between the 4spd and 5sp manual.

As black beard said, 5sp manual will be about 1 sec quicker over the 1/4 mile than the 4 spd, and about .5 sec quicker than the 5 spd auto.
Agreed, and will confirm in a week ;)

thanks boys, thought so.

went from mums auto to my manual and could feel power difference.

thanks boys, thought so.

went from mums auto to my manual and could feel power difference.

Yeah as explained above by other members, the engine output is the same between the two transmissions. The difference in power at the wheels comes down to the transmission type. Generally manual (or sequential) transmissions will be more efficient, hence less drivetrain loss.

i had a 27kW ATW difference, sure it was different dynos about a year apart, but even with their inaccuracies it should be at least 10-20kW difference between the 2.

the main difference is the driver, the auto will always beat some monkey in a manual.... now if im driving the manual, you have no chance in the auto :bowrofl: but i tend to prefer autos as manuals shock the driveline too much and i've damages many diffs from flat shifting a high rpm lol

well put it this way mate..at the drags last saturday nite. was 4 of us there.all N/A 3.5 manuals. all pulled under 15 sec in bad heat. and iv never seen a tip/auto do that. best iv seen is a 15.3 from a VRX

the main difference is the driver, the auto will always beat some monkey in a manual.... now if im driving the manual, you have no chance in the auto :bowrofl: but i tend to prefer autos as manuals shock the driveline too much and i've damages many diffs from flat shifting a high rpm lol


god you talk alot of crap.

I'd wager any average manual driver would still easily beat an auto of the same car. The auto will only win if the manual driver ****s up badly, i.e bogs it or spins the wheels up alot, then misses a gear shift.

You prefer autos because you've smashed many diffs in manual cars? How many hi-powered manual cars have you driven? Unless the car in question is making serious power, IMO you are much more likely to cook the clutch than smash a diff.

Since you drive an auto magna, I'd wager you've driven 0 hi-powered manual cars, and if you have driven one or a few, the owner wouldn't have let you abuse their car to the point of smashing diffs.

Don't like being nasty, but when people are blatantly talking crap, I find it a little hard to let it slide.

i tend to prefer autos as manuals shock the driveline too much and i've damages many diffs l

If you knew how to drive, that wouldnt be a problem.

god you talk alot of crap.

I'd wager any average manual driver would still easily beat an auto of the same car. The auto will only win if the manual driver ****s up badly, i.e bogs it or spins the wheels up alot, then misses a gear shift.

You prefer autos because you've smashed many diffs in manual cars? How many hi-powered manual cars have you driven? Unless the car in question is making serious power, IMO you are much more likely to cook the clutch than smash a diff.

Since you drive an auto magna, I'd wager you've driven 0 hi-powered manual cars, and if you have driven one or a few, the owner wouldn't have let you abuse their car to the point of smashing diffs.

Don't like being nasty, but when people are blatantly talking crap, I find it a little hard to let it slide.



:bowrofl: OWNED!!!!!!!:bowrofl:

**** you both you stupid dumb ****s yeah i have owned several much higher powered cars than you ****wit, and the most powerful manual i have driven was some ****box torana that ran a 10.9 after an auto conversion (did a low-mid 11 something manual), i drove it when it had a muncie 4 spd..

i have droken broke a few diffs 4 behind an auto 3 behind manuals some cos the were stockys in high powered cars, one cos i snapped the housing off the subframe (irs hard launching) doing limo's with 2 motorbikes in the back of the yoot running 265 tyres on it...

the difference is that the diffs behind the manuals died due to driveline shock (go talk to a diff place and find out about it) something with you dont really get behind an auto, the diffs that died behind the auto were all 30yo diffs behind a tough big 6 and from repeated hard launches...

With VERY high powered cars, an Auto will beat a Manual simply due to driver error. Its alot harder to change properly in a manual car that does 10 sec or less quater mile than say a 14 sec car.


Hence why drag cars use quick shift autos.


But on this topic we are talking about standard cars, Manual will always be quicker.

**** you both you stupid dumb ****s yeah i have owned several much higher powered cars than you ****wit, and the most powerful manual i have driven was some ****box torana that ran a 10.9 after an auto conversion (did a low-mid 11 something manual), i drove it when it had a muncie 4 spd..

i have droken broke a few diffs 4 behind an auto 3 behind manuals some cos the were stockys in high powered cars, one cos i snapped the housing off the subframe (irs hard launching) doing limo's with 2 motorbikes in the back of the yoot running 265 tyres on it...

the difference is that the diffs behind the manuals died due to driveline shock (go talk to a diff place and find out about it) something with you dont really get behind an auto, the diffs that died behind the auto were all 30yo diffs behind a tough big 6 and from repeated hard launches...
Holy hell that was hard to read. All I got was "blah blah I'm cool, blah blah AWD Magna with 20 inch rims will beat a Ralliart Magna up a hill and in a straight line." lol

**** you both you stupid dumb ****s yeah i have owned several much higher powered cars than you ****wit, and the most powerful manual i have driven was some ****box torana that ran a 10.9 after an auto conversion (did a low-mid 11 something manual), i drove it when it had a muncie 4 spd..

i have droken broke a few diffs 4 behind an auto 3 behind manuals some cos the were stockys in high powered cars, one cos i snapped the housing off the subframe (irs hard launching) doing limo's with 2 motorbikes in the back of the yoot running 265 tyres on it...

the difference is that the diffs behind the manuals died due to driveline shock (go talk to a diff place and find out about it) something with you dont really get behind an auto, the diffs that died behind the auto were all 30yo diffs behind a tough big 6 and from repeated hard launches...

dont 4get we are talkin about magna's dude...if you read the first post you will see that the question was asked about AUTO V MANUAL IN MAGNA"S we dont care about your 10 second cars...keep on the topic. and if you flat shift a standard car your a wanker. IM MAGNA'S........ MANUALS ARE QUICKER!!!!!!! read my post!!!! well whats the fastests N/A auto magna you've seen/ heard of????? Im doing a 14.5 in a N/A tj magna.... does that prove my/others point??

well **** you all you wonder why its hard attracting new members amn keeping up the club reputation...

i posted a worthy comment, that an auto will beat a poorly driven manual, i comes down to the driver and off the lights in a last second thing the auto will already be off before the manual driver knows about it,

on the strip in a propper race its a different issue



and Disciple and others that always bring up the awd and 20's thing, are you jealous? i didnt mention my magna anywhere yet you bring it up... and to add to you statment, i have been beaten on the strip by manual magnas when my car was stock but on the street i have beaten them, the manual 3.5's i have run only get in front over 80-90km/h, and thats without a launch and tip shifting it..

party boy your doing a 14.5 in a stock std 3.5L manual?? good work

i prefer manual cars to drive hard and race in, but when you job involved driving full time you cant be stuffed driving, i can even be stuffed driving auto sometimes after work still gotta steer

*bain edit: dont go around the swear word filter*

well F U C K you all you wonder why its hard attracting new members amn keeping up the club reputation...

i posted a worthy comment, that an auto will beat a poorly driven manual, i comes down to the driver and off the lights in a last second thing the auto will already be off before the manual driver knows about it,

on the strip in a propper race its a different issue



and Disciple and others that always bring up the awd and 20's thing, are you jealous? i didnt mention my magna anywhere yet you bring it up... and to add to you statment, i have been beaten on the strip by manual magnas when my car was stock but on the street i have beaten them, the manual 3.5's i have run only get in front over 80-90km/h, and thats without a launch and tip shifting it..
party boy your doing a 14.5 in a stock std 3.5L manual?? good work

i prefer manual cars to drive hard and race in, but when you job involved driving full time you cant be stuffed driving, i can even be stuffed driving auto sometimes after work still gotta steer


Thats coz AWD cars are quicker off the line than any 2 wheel drive. And its not just the 3.5 L manuals that have beaten you on the strip, i recall doing the same in mi 3L. And guess what, it was a manual.

Holy hell that was hard to read. All I got was "blah blah I'm cool, blah blah AWD Magna with 20 inch rims will beat a Ralliart Magna up a hill and in a straight line." lol

Man even with 20" wheels I'd still back an AWD magna through the twisties if both cars are driven by competent drivers. The AWDs are totally different to any other Magna in the way they can corner. You can really push them very hard if you have the balls to drive that quick.

well F U C K you all you wonder why its hard attracting new members amn keeping up the club reputation...

He what did you expect, most of us drive FWDs, even though we don't admit it we secretly wish we had RWDs....so we take our anger our on the forums. :bowrofl:

:bowrofl: This thread is great!!!!

My FWD 4sp Auto verada can pull 12 seconds on the quarter mile

Now that i have the supercharger i reckon I'm hitting the 9s..... I'm not blantantly talking crap though, for real!

So Auto = better 10/10

Andrew i get what your saying...iv flogged a NEW XR6T at the lights, simply because they couldnt drive. but we arnt talking about the drivers. we are talking about the car itself. i agree it takes a good driver in a manual to beat an auto off the line..but once u hit second gear. the manual has caught up and past it. (for example: if they were both tj magna's) people are going away from this forum cause there are many tools on here. but at the drags last sat night in QLD we had heaps of people come up and ask about our carslol but useing words like you do doesnt help it all. just please refrain yourself from abuseing words.send them a pm and sort it out.

but we arnt talking about the drivers. we are talking about the car itself.

i agree, i have driven identical cars brand new both in manual and auto(not magnas), and yeah the manual pulls away... esp over 100km/h the only advantage the auto had was on sudden kickdown it hit a bit harder....

all things being equal the manual will always be faster esp in magnas as i've not seen a n/a auto magna under 15sec as you mentioned the torque convertor losses and few extra kg kill it there, but totaly off topic the porsche 911 turbo s is quicker in auto form than manual, as are a few other new cars

how about a magna with a cvt lol

but totaly off topic the porsche 911 turbo s is quicker in auto form than manual, as are a few other new cars

I know, and it makes little baby Jesus cry! :cry:

I like this thread,

has anyone bought the semi-auto into the equation?
I'm not 100$ sure its any better than a standard auto. not that I really know what I'm talking about :)

Andrew:

You can continue banging on about the 10-second cars you supposedly owned, but we all know if you had owned and driven those sort of cars, you probably wouldn't be driving an auto magna :) As already mentioned, the questions was about stock magnas, no one asked you to self-indulge in your racerboy fantasies.

Dear god, looks like we have another "omg awd is teh shiz" thread on our hands. The bottom line is, I've driven an awd magna, I found it to be slow and clumsy. Honestly I'd prefer even an auto fwd.

The problem is, an awd magna simple doesn't have the power to take advantage of its awd drivetrain properly, so as a result you suffer the disadvantage of more weight and much higher drivetrain loss, without seeing much of the benefits of a hi-power awd combo These problems are compounded by the fact the awd magnas are auto only.

Awd magnas can't use their awd to slingshot out of corners, because the power/weight simply isn't there. And they don't have enough power to take advantage of awd off the line either. Consider an auto fwd magna isn't going to experience any/much wheelspin at all with a decent set of tyres and a dry flat road. How is the awd magna, with even less power avaialable at the wheels, going to be faster? There's a reason why even an awd with a sprintex blower still struggles to dip under 15's.

I believe if mitsu had made a hot awd magna with manual transmission, better suspension and 200+kw, they would have quite a monster on their hands. But they didn't, and there's no point pretending the auto awd barge is better than it is.

The AWDs are totally different to any other Magna in the way they can corner. You can really push them very hard if you have the balls to drive that quick.

How so? The whole point of an awd platform is it makes the car EASIER to drive hard. What it does is remove the need for much in the way of throttle control. Turn in, mash the throttle earlier and harder than in a two-wheel drive car, let the awd sort itself out and slingshot you out of the corner. Except the last bit doesn't apply to awd magnas, because they simple don't have the power to overcome the disadvantages of awd, and take advanatage of the extra corner-exit grip available.

How so? The whole point of an awd platform is it makes the car EASIER to drive hard. What it does is remove the need for much in the way of throttle control. Turn in, mash the throttle earlier and harder than in a two-wheel drive car, let the awd sort itself out and slingshot you out of the corner. Except the last bit doesn't apply to awd magnas, because they simple don't have the power to overcome the disadvantages of awd, and take advanatage of the extra corner-exit grip available.


This is the only part i would have to disagree with. Does everybody remember my thread on the AWD TL VRX vs TF Magna vs Ford XR6?

We raced up and down a mountain and the AWD flogged me. Always went through corners harder, always came out quicker. I flogged the XR6 and it was manual too.

So IF what your saying is true about the AWD magna, why is it that it shat all over my car through the windies?

This is the only part i would have to disagree with. Does everybody remember my thread on the AWD TL VRX vs TF Magna vs Ford XR6?

We raced up and down a mountain and the AWD flogged me. Always went through corners harder, always came out quicker. I flogged the XR6 and it was manual too.

So IF what your saying is true about the AWD magna, why is it that it shat all over my car through the windies?

The 5sp tippy in the AWD is a bit lethargic, but not the worst tranny i have driven. I think the overall gearing, after passing through the transfer case is a bit lower. This does overcome some of the disadvantage.

I have yet to see a HSV tailgate me on bends and corners, and when it counts, such as in the wet when you are liklely to kill yourself, these awds stay fairly well composed.

Of course, its a different story with a blower, and many people like myself bought the awd with the idea of bolting up few more horsepower (plus I've never had leather seats before).

I didn't realise this forum was a pi**ing contest between FWD, AWD, N/A and forced induction. I thought it was a Magna Club.

The 5sp tippy in the AWD is a bit lethargic, but not the worst tranny i have driven. I think the overall gearing, after passing through the transfer case is a bit lower. This does overcome some of the disadvantage.

I have yet to see a HSV tailgate me on bends and corners, and when it counts, such as in the wet when you are liklely to kill yourself, these awds stay fairly well composed.

Of course, its a different story with a blower, and many people like myself bought the awd with the idea of bolting up few more horsepower (plus I've never had leather seats before).

I didn't realise this forum was a pi**ing contest between FWD, AWD, N/A and forced induction. I thought it was a Magna Club.


lol It is mate, we just like taking the p*ss out of people sometimes, what can i say, i get bored... lol gotta have some fun..

Sorry to be off topic for a bit..

On topic, the question has already been answered.

Hey guys and gals just curious to what the power difference is between an auto and a manual of the same type of magna in both sheer power (kw) and drag times....?

just curious to which one would win and by how much?

Eg. Man TF vs Auto TE

Ta!

this was the 1st post...i dont know how AWD magna's came into it?:cry: the question has been answerd and yet more crap is comeing up.iv seen it with my own eyes (as have others) a stock TF/TE/TJ/TH manual, whatever it is...will beat auto. all agree??

god you talk alot of crap.

I'd wager any average manual driver would still easily beat an auto of the same car. The auto will only win if the manual driver ****s up badly, i.e bogs it or spins the wheels up alot, then misses a gear shift.

Since you drive an auto magna, I'd wager you've driven 0 hi-powered manual cars, and if you have driven one or a few, the owner wouldn't have let you abuse their car to the point of smashing diffs.

Don't like being nasty, but when people are blatantly talking crap, I find it a little hard to let it slide.

Chisholm.. You might want to do some research before claiming some things.

XR6T auto's are faster than their manual counterparts.

Pretty much any hi-po turbo engine using an auto gearbox is faster than the manual due to no loss of boost between gear changes.

For stock cars and most NA engines the manual is faster. (unless you have a DSG or 6 speed ZF gear box)

Research before preeching mate.

:bowdown: HALLELUJAH:bowdown:

Andrew:

You can continue banging on about the 10-second cars you supposedly owned, but we all know if you had owned and driven those sort of cars, you probably wouldn't be driving an auto magna :)

I believe if mitsu had made a hot awd magna with manual transmission, better suspension and 200+kw, they would have quite a monster on their hands. But they didn't, and there's no point pretending the auto awd barge is better than it is.


first part, i have never owned and never will, but i have driven a few very fast cars and out of all of them my favorite car was a 69 val with a 318 3spd, lol i was soo sooo close to buying it it had the full suspension package through it and handled every bit as good as a new car even had decent brakes looked stock as and had 221 rwkw

2nd point they have and its called the EVO its a mini me magna lol

Chisholm.. You might want to do some research before claiming some things.

XR6T auto's are faster than their manual counterparts.

Pretty much any hi-po turbo engine using an auto gearbox is faster than the manual due to no loss of boost between gear changes.

For stock cars and most NA engines the manual is faster. (unless you have a DSG or 6 speed ZF gear box)

Research before preeching mate.

In a straight line the auto turbo cars are faster yes, hit a few corners where you want more control and instant throttle response, and a manual car becomes faster.

Also the 6 speed ZF gearbox should not be compared to a DSG which still uses clutch packs instead of torque converters.

And I'm sure you know already, but for the people that don't the DSG is basically an automated manual gearbox that can preselect the next gear and start to engage it as it releases the current gear leading to almost zero shift time between gears, awesome gearboxes. BMWs SMG gearbox is getting better with each release too, another great gearbox.

Chisholm.. You might want to do some research before claiming some things.

XR6T auto's are faster than their manual counterparts.

Pretty much any hi-po turbo engine using an auto gearbox is faster than the manual due to no loss of boost between gear changes.



Hi Bain,
I'm well aware of that, however in this instance we are talking stock auto vs manual magnas. Apart from preserving boost between gear changes, auto turbo cars are much easier/consistent when launching, as with a manual it's a balancing act between wheelspin and bogging. I get the impression with turbo auto cars most of the advatage is actually in the launch.

Also this only applies in a straight line, around a track a well-driven manual will be quicker. Although it seems autos are getting and better, and the gap is closing is closing (e.g a 6-spd ZF equipped XR6Tis only marginally slower around a track than its manual counterpart acccording to WHEELS)


This is the only part i would have to disagree with. Does everybody remember my thread on the AWD TL VRX vs TF Magna vs Ford XR6?

We raced up and down a mountain and the AWD flogged me. Always went through corners harder, always came out quicker. I flogged the XR6 and it was manual too.

So IF what your saying is true about the AWD magna, why is it that it shat all over my car through the windies?

hey Will,
You may be right, however I would argue there's way too many factors at play for that to be a reliable test. For starters, an XR6 (BA?) is a completely different car to a magna, so that is no longer a direct awd vs two-wheel drive comparison. To be honest it would greatly surprise me if a AWD magna or an exec fwd magna would be quicker than an XR6 in the bends.

Also, You have to consider that you may not have been driving the XR6 or even your own car anywhere near its potential. Getting the most out of a RWD is far more challenging than an AWD, it's very common to feel like you are going hard when in fact you are no where near the limit, particularly for us magna drivers who are use to FWD. This also applies to a lesser extent to FWD.

And this where the advantage in awd lies for most people, any competent joe can drive an AWD car to 9/10s of its abilities, when that same person might only be able to drive a rwd or fwd car to 7/10s of its potential. AWD greatly simplifies throttle control and steering/throttle balance..esentially you can point at the apex and mash the throttle. If you power too hard the awd will pull you back into line, or gently push wide.

:js:

Never had a chance to use this symbol till now, so I like to listen what everyone is saying. lol

ahhh stuff this im riding my scooter (cvt) and tossing the magna and getting me a 8spd auto lexus :P and i'll stick to driving my diesel manual truck at work (has a great gearbox) lol

:js:

Never had a chance to use this symbol till now, so I like to listen what everyone is saying. lol
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g291/dave_au2/fascinating.jpg

hey Will,
You may be right, however I would argue there's way too many factors at play for that to be a reliable test. For starters, an XR6 (BA?) is a completely different car to a magna, so that is no longer a direct awd vs two-wheel drive comparison. To be honest it would greatly surprise me if a AWD magna or an exec fwd magna would be quicker than an XR6 in the bends.

Also, You have to consider that you may not have been driving the XR6 or even your own car anywhere near its potential. Getting the most out of a RWD is far more challenging than an AWD, it's very common to feel like you are going hard when in fact you are no where near the limit, particularly for us magna drivers who are use to FWD. This also applies to a lesser extent to FWD.

And this where the advantage in awd lies for most people, any competent joe can drive an AWD car to 9/10s of its abilities, when that same person might only be able to drive a rwd or fwd car to 7/10s of its potential. AWD greatly simplifies throttle control and steering/throttle balance..esentially you can point at the apex and mash the throttle. If you power too hard the awd will pull you back into line, or gently push wide.

How good is this thread... lol

ok, 1. There was a direct AWD vs 2WD comparison because i was there in my front wheel drive magna. And i was beaten by the awd, now you can say that there was no comparison because my magna is only a 3L, but keep in mind that mines a manual and isnt as heavy as the AWD counterpart. And i seem to recall that there is not alot of difference in performance (on the road) between a stock 3L manual and a stock 3.5L Auto. Correct me if im wrong.

2. The person driving the BA XR6 was the owner.

whens this thread getting locked?

whens this thread getting locked?

not, as each have some valid points etc.

Sometimes is just pure human Ego here trying to prove something :bowrofl:

How good is this thread... lol

ok, 1. There was a direct AWD vs 2WD comparison because i was there in my front wheel drive magna. And i was beaten by the awd, now you can say that there was no comparison because my magna is only a 3L, but keep in mind that mines a manual and isnt as heavy as the AWD counterpart. And i seem to recall that there is not alot of difference in performance (on the road) between a stock 3L manual and a stock 3.5L Auto. Correct me if im wrong.

2. The person driving the BA XR6 was the owner.

Fair enough Will, however IMO my point still stands. And that point being, that it is far easier to drive an awd to its potential than a fwd or rwd. You may not have been driving your own car to what it was really capable of, same could be said for the XR6 owner. However, it is also possible the guy driving the awd wasn't the best either.

The only way for that test to be reliable is a highly skilled driver drove all 3 cars back to back. I guess since no one has done just that that in a controlled environment, all we can do is speculate. And based on my personal experience of a brief drive of an awd magna, and some limited motorsport experience/knowledge, I'm of the opinion the awd magna really just isn't what many people here are claiming it to be.

I guess I shouldn't argue with you too much, since you know where I live :p

Cheers,
Andy

im going to wakefield park (NSW) very soon... anyone with an AWD wana come show us how they go versus my ralliart??

im going to wakefield park (NSW) very soon... anyone with and AWD wana come show us how they go versus my ralliart??
Word.

Word.

less time talkin more time racin lol

:stoopid:

hmm any idea how the 5spd tippy kj2 verada would go down the strip? 155kw. slight delay in gear changes, but probly 15-15.5 yeah? just curious :) (and want to change direction of convo slightly hehe)

hmm any idea how the 5spd tippy kj2 verada would go down the strip? 155kw. slight delay in gear changes, but probly 15-15.5 yeah? just curious :) (and want to change direction of convo slightly hehe)
16-16.5.

16-16.5.

maybe 16 but it shouldnt be any higher than that. you might get a 15.7 if you try hard and are in the right conditions. thats just goinng on the cars that iv seen.

my little bro had a 96 magna 5 speed manual that would pretty much smoke anything that came near it. i will vouch that manual 5 speed driven properly will consistanty beat it's auto counterpart driven properly. just the way it is.......case closed...i know everything!

close gear ratios with what would seem to be a great mid range and ball tearing acceleration made for many a night of standing around with our WW2 fighter pilot goggles, wind swept hair and scarves blowing in the wind laughing like hyena's at the losing multitude of commodores

The only way for that test to be reliable is a highly skilled driver drove all 3 cars back to back. I guess since no one has done just that that in a controlled environment, all we can do is speculate.

Ahh give it to the stig!!!:D



Wow some of you guys really do get quite heated in your discussions about what i thought was a relatively simple question to answer for someone who either had previously experienced the situation or had driven the two types of the same model....

Ahh give it to the stig!!!:D



Wow some of you guys really do get quite heated in your discussions about what i thought was a relatively simple question to answer for someone who had either had previously experienced the situation or had driven the two types of the same model....

:bowrofl: yes it seems that way. i hope your question was answerd tho. just in case it wasnt... A MANUAL will smoke a AUTO. case closed:bowrofl: you would have got a laugh outa all of it but :bowrofl:

I am reading this tread and i just want to say OMG!!!

chisholm whats soo wrong with the AWD???

the atuo is easier to get off the line consistently, but the manual will be quicker once moving. auto gearboxes are heavier, so slower acceleration. also the manual gearboxes can change much quicker, and when you want. but then there is the chance of stuffing the gear change up.