Hi,

am looking at getting a TL VRX manual eventually,im just hoping mitsubishi has sorted out the idle problems associated with the earlier TH-TJ series magnas.

So what is the idle like on the TL-TW series?

Steve

i have a manual TL and it idles fine

cheers mate

thats what i would like to hear!,BTW how do you like the TL ?,can you tell me what springs you have on her and how is the ride quality with the LE koni shocks etc.Also does the TL have much windnoise on the highway or is it quiet?

Lastly,how do you find the manual?,are they tractable and pull from low revs etc, I ask as im still tossin up between tiptronic and manual

Thanks
Steve

I'll answer some of those... idle is dead perfect, I only use 91RON like you're supposed to as well.

Springs, gone from stock to king low SPs which drop it 30mm, keeping stock shocks. You can feel the difference in the ride, it's a little firmer but the main thing is far less body roll. Also I've got 17s and i'm running 40psi in front and 35psi in the back. It's a lot firmer than it came out of the factory but I don't notice it since I've grown up with cars running 40psi all round.

Manual, pull harder than the autos will from the lower revs, purely from the shorter ratios. They have no problems spinning the wheels from below 2000rpm if you launch it, and dont feel breathless at all.

Highway is also very comfortable, I do highway trips often and never questioned the overall comfort apart despite the pacific highway... :doubt:

cheers mate

thats what i would like to hear!,BTW how do you like the TL ?,can you tell me what springs you have on her and how is the ride quality with the LE koni shocks etc.Also does the TL have much windnoise on the highway or is it quiet?

Lastly,how do you find the manual?,are they tractable and pull from low revs etc, I ask as im still tossin up between tiptronic and manual

Thanks
Steve

mate i love my TL
ride is awsome with the koni shocks lowered on kings superlows/lows combo
would have dropped about 45mm, sits nicely tho :D
i have some wind noise because one of those triangle bits just above the side mirror is cracked
i would pick manual over auto any time, manuals pull abit harder than autos

TJ's have an idleing problem?

mines all good, never had any issues ever 110k :nuts:

i wonder if it is because we are all at some stage taking our negative terminal off the battery, and not having the base idle reset. I took my car in to Mits for the 90000km service today after I recently (when I did cams etc) found out if you remove the negative terminal you need to have the base idle reset(using MUT). Even tho my idle is slightly lumpier than stock, it is definitley a bit smoother than it was before i took it in this morning.

Wouldnt the base idle already be set in the ecu? Eg pre programmed. I cant see why it should be reset every time the battery is disconnected.

regards

After 46k my car's idle is still perfect

Wouldnt the base idle already be set in the ecu? Eg pre programmed. I cant see why it should be reset every time the battery is disconnected.

regards

Yep. All base parameters are flashed into the ECU at assembly and get "initailised" at first start up of the car at the factory.

I can reset my ECU back to standard specs at the click of one button on my laptop when it is hooked into the ECU even though i have modded just about all of those factory parameters.

On a standard magna ECU the "base" parameters are accessed everytime the battery is disconnected and then reconnected (hence the fast idle etc etc upon vehicle restart for a few minutes until it "soft" learns where it is)

Thanks for the reply Jason. Just one more question relating this issue. Does a mitsu dealer have the capability of adjusting the base idle within the ecu eg upon request from customer to up the revs a couple of 100rpm can they actually store the new parameter and it stays there permanently?
Im chasing an idle issue and if this is possible it may resolve my problem..

Regards

Yep. All base parameters are flashed into the ECU at assembly and get "initailised" at first start up of the car at the factory.

I can reset my ECU back to standard specs at the click of one button on my laptop when it is hooked into the ECU even though i have modded just about all of those factory parameters.

On a standard magna ECU the "base" parameters are accessed everytime the battery is disconnected and then reconnected (hence the fast idle etc etc upon vehicle restart for a few minutes until it "soft" learns where it is)

but wouldn't may also need adjusting if someone has played with the idle screw, and taken it out of the correct 'parameters'. alot of people may use non-mits for servicing who dont know the cars as well as they think.

Thanks for the reply Jason. Just one more question relating this issue. Does a mitsu dealer have the capability of adjusting the base idle within the ecu eg upon request from customer to up the revs a couple of 100rpm can they actually store the new parameter and it stays there permanently?Im chasing an idle issue and if this is possible it may resolve my problem..

Regards


No they dont even though some of them "claim" they can. The MUT-11 diagnostic tool can not adjust base parameters on the ECU, it is only a diagnostic tool for fault finding.

but wouldn't may also need adjusting if someone has played with the idle screw, and taken it out of the correct 'parameters'. alot of people may use non-mits for servicing who dont know the cars as well as they think.

No all the idle screw does is allow more air through the idle air bleed passage, by doing this the ECU reads the increase in air flow (slightly leaner mixture due to more air ) by monitoring all the sensors and increase the idle speed/mixture accordingly. The base ECU parameters stay the same though, hence why when u disconnect the battery the engine runs differently until it soft learns itself again (especially idle speed).

I hope that makes sense, its hard to explain in words but its easy to show on a working model. Someone else maybe able to explain it better in laymans terms :)

No all the idle screw does is allow more air through the idle air bleed passage, by doing this the ECU reads the increase in air flow (slightly leaner mixture due to more air ) by monitoring all the sensors and increase the idle speed/mixture accordingly. The base ECU parameters stay the same though, hence why when u disconnect the battery the engine runs differently until it soft learns itself again (especially idle speed).

I hope that makes sense, its hard to explain in words but its easy to show on a working model. Someone else maybe able to explain it better in laymans terms :)

yep o.k. thanks. understand a little better. Still, my idle is now better. it use to almost stall when selecting gear when the engine was cold.

Well, look at it like this -- these engines aren't designed to run cold, so you have to expect some funny business at the start.

If it's still playing up once the temperature's right, then you have some cause for concern...

Makes sense Jason. Shame the dealers dont have the ability to make this adjustment via the ecu. It would probably save them a lot of headaches as well as customers as their vehicles age. Would have been great to have the ability to do this because it would probably solve most peoples shakey idle issues when stationary.. I guess the only other option is an aftermarket ecu that should give you the ability to make these adjustments.

Regards

Ok fellas something to think about. Im my case my pajero but very similar engine to the 3.0 and 3.5 just mounted the otherway lol..
I have been chasing a shakey idle in drive on my pajero nearly a month. After stuffing around replacing manifold gaskets inlet exhaust plugs leads anything that could be swapped from another vehicle and spares as well eg sensors etc i still had the dreaded shake on idle on my vehicle.
Anything over 900-1000rpm it was fine anything below in drive it would have a shake and it really pissed me off wasnt a hard shake but you could feel it through the floor.
Today i took it to my mechanic. Only thing that wasnt checked was the timming belt and tensioner setup due to the amount of crap you have to remove on this vehicle just to inspect it.
My mechanic and i tore the front of the motor down just to have a look and see if we could see anything. Previous owner advised that timming belt was replaced. This was correct because you could see the bolts on the timming cover had been removed at some stage in the past.
Anyway once we tore it down we setup the engine so we could see the timing marks and we found that one of the cams on the passenger side was out by one tooth. Next part was removing all the gear at the front of the engine aircon, power steer & balancer etc. Further investigation revealed that the timing belt had a fair bit of play on the left side and right side. Finally we established that the tensioner was loose and in the wrong position. Basically it was all setup wrong. Lucky me the belt didnt jump any further otherwise it would have cost me big dollars.
Since we had it in bits we decided to replace the belt anyway just to be sure for peace of mind. Reset everything re assembled front of engine.
Fired up the vehicle and no more shakey idle in drive you could balance a 50cent piece on the motor now and it wouldnt fall over. It feels like a new engine lol..
So my problem has now been solved.
Something for you guys to think about especially if this type of problem started since replacing a timming belt.
It's very easy to make a mistake doing a timming belt on one of these engines.
As always start on the small things and see if it fixes your idle problem.
I was at my wits end with this problem there was nothing else to try we covered off everything we could think off.
Cost to replace timming belt including labour $300.00 mates rates... I cant complain about that.
Its great that the vehicle is more enjoyable to drive now especially when sitting in traffic or at the lights.

Hope this helps someone out there.

Regards
wrexed03

No they dont even though some of them "claim" they can. The MUT-11 diagnostic tool can not adjust base parameters on the ECU, it is only a diagnostic tool for fault finding.

That's right. it is adjusted with the screws if anywhere. this from the c.d manual:
BASIC IDLE SPEED ADJUSTMENT
NOTE
1. The standard idle speed has been adjusted, by the
engine speed adjusting screw, by the manufacturer,
and there should usually be no need for readjustment.
2. The adjustment, if made, should be made after first
confirming that the spark plugs, the injectors, the ISC
servo, the compression pressure, etc., are all normal.
1. The vehicle should be set in the pre-adjustment condition
before inspection and adjustment.
2. Connect the MUT-II to the data link connector (16-pin)
NOTE
When the MUT-II is connected, the diagnosis control terminal
should be grounded.
3. Start the engine and run at idle.
4. Select item No. 30 of the MUT-II Actuator Test.
NOTE
This holds the ISC servo at the basic step to adjust the
basic idle speed.
5. Check the idle speed.
Standard value: 700 ± 100 r/min
NOTE
1. The engine speed may be 20 to 100 r/min lower
than indicated above for a new vehicle [driven approximately
500 km or less], but no adjustment is necessary.
2. If the engine stalls or the rpm is low even though
the vehicle has been driven approximately 500 km
or more, it is probable that deposits are adhered to
the throttle valve, so clean it. (Refer
On Vehicle Service.)



theres a easy way to adjust idle on most efi cars

start motor and remove brake booster hose and wind the air bleed all the way in
this will tell ecu to close off the iac when the idle drops un pulg the iac
refit the brake booster hose and the idle will drop
at this point if the motor is still running turn the butterfly adjusting screw till motor is just idling
around 450 to 550 rpm, if its not idling open the butterfly screw till it does
turn off motor

re fit the iac wire
wind the air bleed out 1 turn
check the tps siginal wire is at .8 volts
if not adjust tps. if tps not adjustable use the butterfly screw
start motor use let motor run till stable idle
turn air bleed screw till idle is between 750 and 850

bobs ya aunty

No they dont even though some of them "claim" they can. The MUT-11 diagnostic tool can not adjust base parameters on the ECU, it is only a diagnostic tool for fault finding.

The MUTT-III has been mandatory in Mitsu dealers for quite a while now, much better than the older MUTT-II. Not only can the MUTT tool read ecu's for fault codes, it can also reprogram the ecu to fix shift problems, drivability problems when cold, etc. In fact, anything really, as long as Mitsu has supplied the dealer with the appropiate re-flash files!

Now we just need to find out which dealer has the newer equipment.. lol..

Regards

all dealers that have mut 3 will have it fully updated

there is a lot of ecu flashes for earlia magnas to fix shift problems havent seen any for engine ecu. but i have heard its been done

The MUTT-III has been mandatory in Mitsu dealers for quite a while now, much better than the older MUTT-II. Not only can the MUTT tool read ecu's for fault codes, it can also reprogram the ecu to fix shift problems, drivability problems when cold, etc. In fact, anything really, as long as Mitsu has supplied the dealer with the appropiate re-flash files!

Mitsubishi dealers CAN NOT reprogram the engine maps in "real time" rolling road (dyno) conditions, to suit each individual vehicle.

They can touch-up the trans shift points etc (that was also able to be done with the MUT-II if ya knew what you were doing and ive got to admit most dealers wouldnt know crap from clay)
The igniton and air/fuel maps are security locked and the only engine maps we were able to fully crack were on the TH ECU, hence why they were used in our development cars.

My ECU has had the security access codes cracked (but you lose the factory immobiliser, alarm still works though) and an access port (RS232) put into the side of it (when i was at MMAL) so i can hook my laptop up to it and use the remapping software.

I also have access to a MUT tool with the last "magna/verada" ROM card (July 2005) in it but i dont use it.

Hi there
Question for the ECU experts.:)
Are all of the Mitsu ECUs reflashable?
Reason I ask is that I've been using Evoscan as a MUTIII datalogger which is OK, but its main purpose in life seems to be associated with flashing new maps into Mitsu Evo ECUs with things like ECUFlash.
So seems like some of the units can be reprogrammed relatively "easily".What's the story :confused:

Hi there
Question for the ECU experts.:)
Are all of the Mitsu ECUs reflashable?
Reason I ask is that I've been using Evoscan as a MUTIII datalogger which is OK, but its main purpose in life seems to be associated with flashing new maps into Mitsu Evo ECUs with things like ECUFlash.
So seems like some of the units can be reprogrammed relatively "easily".What's the story :confused:

When i worked for MMAL and was on the ralliart magna developemnt program, we could only reflash the TH model ECU's as that was the only model we could crack the access security codes on and then use our mapping software (ralliart magna P1 pilot build cars and the test mules used TH ECU's).
We removed my TH sports ECU's security access codes whilst i was in the R&D department, and then added a access port so i can now map my car with my laptop in "real time" on a dyno .

When i worked for MMAL and was on the ralliart magna developemnt program, we could only reflash the TH model ECU's as that was the only model we could crack the access security codes on and then use our mapping software (ralliart magna P1 pilot build cars and the test mules used TH ECU's).
We removed my TH sports ECU's security access codes whilst i was in the R&D department, and then added a access port so i can now map my car with my laptop in "real time" on a dyno .

How much more power is there in a stock 3.5 litre engine by using the most aggressive tune possible on the stock ecu?

How much more power is there in a stock 3.5 litre engine by using the most aggressive tune possible on the stock ecu?

How long is a piece of string? lol

Na seriously, that is a fairly hard question to answer as all engines vary in power output from the factory (as proven on the same dyno of two identical running geared magnas on the same day at last years AMC dyno day)

Put it this way the engine i had in my TH sports at last dyno day was a stock engine but with pacemakers extractors/hi flow cat and exhaust plus my remapped factory ECU to suit the mods and it made 137Kw's@wheels, the same day there was another exact same TH sports as mine but with no mods at all, it pulled 115Kw's@wheels.

So id say on a bog stock engine theres probably 5-8Kw's to be made by ECU mapping, depends on the car though.

When i worked for MMAL and was on the ralliart magna developemnt program, we could only reflash the TH model ECU's as that was the only model we could crack the access security codes on and then use our mapping software (ralliart magna P1 pilot build cars and the test mules used TH ECU's).
We removed my TH sports ECU's security access codes whilst i was in the R&D department, and then added a access port so i can now map my car with my laptop in "real time" on a dyno .

Thanks for the info.
Do you think it is possible to extract an image from the ECU or is that protected by a security code?
AFAIK the Evo guys aren't changing the maps in realtime, just loading a new map through the OBD/MUT port then running another test.Don't know whether security codes are an issue for them.
Seems they can extract images with ECUFlash but I guess they know what they are doing.
I'm wary of running anything other than the logger in case the ECU gets terminally screwed up. Would you think that's a possibility cos that would be bad news :shock: