G'day all,

About a month ago I had my car lowered on Lovells Superlows with KYB Shocks. I had a wheel alignment done and all was good. I had stock rims at the time. On Friday I got a set of 18x8s put on with 235s and had another wheel alignment done. The bloke who did it at Bob Jane said that my camber was out a bit and reccomended that I get a camber kit installed to prevent uneven wear on my new tyres. He increased the toe in on the rear to compensate for now.

Here is a scan of the printout I recieved. The figures with lines next to them are what he was concerned about.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/downunderground372/printout.gif

I have nfi what is right when it comes to this stuff. Anybody able to give me some advice? He said to take it to somewhere like Fulcrum and get their opinion as they may think he is over-reacting. He also said that the cost of having a camber kit installed front and rear may outweight the cost of getting the tyres replaced when needed.

Do these figures look okay to anyone on here who knows their stuff?

Cheers ppl.

your rear tyres will wear more with that toe on rear
im looking for the specs now

After looking at my last set of 18" high quality nankang ultrasports with kings low at backs and superlows at fronts, I can't spot any signs of uneven wear on the rear tyres. My fronts wear on the outside a lot which is mainly a driving style and FWD issue.

Compared to some commodores that are low that really chew the inside rears, its no comparison.

I don't have any theory to back my case up, I'm just basing it on a real world inspection of my tyres.

At the end of the day, each car is subtlety different. Look at your you do your next rotation and see if they're wearing unevenly.

question for ya did you put the struts back in the way they come out?

can go 3 different ways

I didn't do the struts myself. Had a friend of a friend who is a mechanic do it.

Anyway of telling if it is in the right way?

nop best to mark them before removing them

what bob jane did this for you?

I had new KYB struts installed when I had the Lovells put in. Might take it to somewhere like Fulcrum to get a solution, probably be the way to go. Just thought someone here would have a solution for me. Thanks for your help though mate.

I believe if you have camber promlems after new struts and a supalow spring set up, then something is not quiet right. The struts can only go in one way, BUT the upper spring seats and top mounting can be put back on in the wrong position(especialy on the front).

I have a similar set up comprising of Monroe struts, lovells supalows allround, 18x8 with 235.
I had the 18's fitted then I fitted the suspension my self with the aid of a workshop manual where there is a note saying "Mark the spring seats in relation to the spring, and mark the positioning of the upper mounting nuts to the strut tower"

I followed the manual and had no probs, went and had a wheel alignment at Bob Jane and asked them to check the camber and castor. They told me it was within tolerance and wouldnt cause trouble, and so far it has'nt.

As far as camber kits, I got prices of $240 for front and $270 for rear with out fitting cost.

KJ, I have some answers for you. I have a TF Sports that was stock 4 weeks ago and I had an alignment check on it when bought it. My print out showed:
camber LF=0.74 deg neg
camber RF=0.07 deg neg.

I was told this left/right variation was 'within normal mass production varaition tolerances'. Cripes! Now in theory such a camber varaition oughta be felt as better initial turn-in on RH corners compared to LH corners. But in all honesty, on the original clapped out 160,000km suspension I couldn't tell any obvious difference.

After I had Koni Sport Yellows and low Kings Springs fitted by my suspension man (done 8 of my cars over 30 years), print out showed:
camber LF=0.9 deg neg
camber RF=0.3 deg neg

So the diff between left and right was still the same in overall terms. And the difference in handling between left and right corners was now very obvious on turn-in.

Fitted a strut brace and camber kit and set both front sides to neg 1 degree camber. Turn-in now electric sharp and totally consistent between left and right corners. Why did I fit a brace at the same time as the camber kit? So I could be sure that the camber I had set up was going to stay that way under cornering load load. Total cost for the camber kit and Whiteline brace was $400 fitted (the brace was $200 of that).

So where does that leave you? Well, from this crusty old 46 year old's point of view I would say a front camber kit is worth every cent. You've paid a pile for your suspension components, seems a waste not spending the last couple of hundred to get the full money's worth out of. And set your rear toe in at +1.0 and forget about it - it's the front end of a Magna you need to sort to get the best out of it.

Hope this helps

Thanks for the posts guys. Looks like I will be taking it to Fulcrum to get everything sorted. Pissed off that I don't know if the struts are in there properly. Pretty sure the bloke who installed them didn't mark the seating position. He was saying that it looked a bit wierd to him when he reassembled them.

KJ, I have some answers for you. I have a TF Sports that was stock 4 weeks ago and I had an alignment check on it when bought it. My print out showed:
camber LF=0.74 deg neg
camber RF=0.07 deg neg.

I was told this left/right variation was 'within normal mass production varaition tolerances'. Cripes! Now in theory such a camber varaition oughta be felt as better initial turn-in on RH corners compared to LH corners. But in all honesty, on the original clapped out 160,000km suspension I couldn't tell any obvious difference.



It is my understanding also that vehicles are deliberatly designed with more negative camber on the left than on the right - for compensation for the camber of the road - this is to help reduce the tendancy of a car pulling to the left all the time on the road....even with a correct wheel align

not to bad.. done right.. when you have a bit of camber on the rear like you do they add some + ositive tow to keep tyre wear even and under control..

That makes mine look good..:P i had 4 degrees - negative on each rear and 12mm + positive tow..:(

Its better now ive had my custom arms done..:)

i work in tyres wouldnt stress to much the toe in will counter the rear camber the front in ok
1.1 degree is not to bad but the technician should have set the front toe at about 1-2 mil toe in as toe out and neg camber combined will where tyres

i work in tyres wouldnt stress to much the toe in will counter the rear camber the front in ok
1.1 degree is not to bad but the technician should have set the front toe at about 1-2 mil toe in as toe out and neg camber combined will where tyres

INGRISH..:P

You can take a breathe when typing..:P

1 or 2 degrees of camber will be fine for tyre wear. The rear doesn't need as much camber, but 1-2 degrees is bugger all anyway. You will not see any increased wear from camber that minor.

1 or 2 degrees of camber will be fine for tyre wear. The rear doesn't need as much camber, but 1-2 degrees is bugger all anyway. You will not see any increased wear from camber that minor.

I agree with TC here. I am running about -1.2deg up front and no uneven tyre wear at all.

In other words, you don't have a problem. Leave it alone or it will cost you un-needed money. The tyre shop was trying to upsell.

Hell I ran 2 degrees rear on the charade and up to 4 on the front at some events.
The E30 has easily 3 degrees from factory!

It is my understanding also that vehicles are deliberatly designed with more negative camber on the left than on the right - for compensation for the camber of the road - this is to help reduce the tendancy of a car pulling to the left all the time on the road....even with a correct wheel align

Nope. Not so. Over a period of 30years my M535i, Alpina 635SCi, Mk1 MR2, TN, TP, Celica (hey, we all get to make one mistake), LC Lancer and 4 Brocks were all out by different amounts left to right on the front - sometimes more on right then left and sometimes other way around. The differences are simply down the vaguaries of mass production


In other words, you don't have a problem. Leave it alone or it will cost you un-needed money. The tyre shop was trying to upsell.

Hell I ran 2 degrees rear on the charade and up to 4 on the front at some events.
The E30 has easily 3 degrees from factory!

Yes, you can do that at track days - I used to run 3 degs on the Alpina on track days on the front. And because the car was 50mm lower the rears naturally ran at neg 4. But I found that it needed to be set back to no more than 1 deg at the front for the road or the PZeroes were gone in 12,000km. And at $700 a corner that was just not on. I tried running neg 1.5 on the fronts of my Koni equipped TP wagon on 195/60/15 and those front were gone in only 10,000km. So sure, run more than neg 1 on your road car - brilliant corner turn-in but be prepared for the increased tyre wear :cry:

So sure, run more than neg 1 on your road car - brilliant corner turn-in but be prepared for the increased tyre wear :cry:

I've been running approx -1.2/3deg camber on the front of my TF for about 12months now. With 225/45 R17 Tyres, I have not experienced any accelerated wear on the inside of the tyres. In my case it actually reduced excessive outer tyre wear on the front during cornering (due to tyre roll). I'm confidant enough to set the front camber to -1.5deg next time I go in for a wheel alignment.