i have a pioneer 12' in their special design box, the one with the red carpet trim,

now, over the last 4 months, it becoming annoying now, this sub doesn't agree with my hard trance music to well, it goes hard when i crank the rap style on the system, but with the fast beats of trance, the sub lags a bit and booms to much,

now, i have fiddel with my head unti as much as possible, and still not the result i'm looking for,

i've had it for two years now, i'm now looking for a tight kick, now if i'm going down the tight kick road, would it be fessible to keep this 12 and put it into a smaller box( that means it better for kicking righ?!) or to get a different brand, or downsize to a 10, and what size box

i'm not after sq or spl, just bass that kicks the seat in, and loud if its possible,

i'm just looking at options at the moment, so i can't give i direct budget at the moment, but if you need it will come up with one

what sub(s)?
cant recommend anything without knowing that :S
i presume they are 305C double's tho considering the box

sub model is TS-W306C in the geniune pioneer box

your NEVER goign to get a 306C to keep up with rapid bass, they are chep and nasty subs, that sound like crap, but go loud as hell sorry to say. to get the most of them though, about 2.2cuft with a shared 6" aero port tuned to 32hz would go nicely.

ahh i was afraid of that answer,

well i guess i'll have to get a new sub with a custom box done for it, so i can have bass kicking

This is an interesting topic, that i myself have an issue with. I posted a thread with my friends over at CAA, and i had some very interesting answers.

How does the bass sound when your listening to trance, is it "perfectly" out of time, for example, its alwas a fraction after the normal bass hit. It is it random, and sometimes keeps up, and then gets all muddy and hard to hear each hit.

An important thing to notice, is that, unlike rap, rock, the actually percieved "bass hit", is not actually in the subbass region. The bass is actually a midbass hit and then followed by a lower bassnote. This, is what often gives the impression that the sub is lagging, where in actuall fact, it is playing the music the way it was created. And keeping in mind, the cars create a gain in the lowest two octaves of music (sub area), so that delayed, second subbass hit, seems louder than everything else.



Its a strange topic, but its the nature of cars. So how do we go about fixing it ? Again, from my expereince, try inverting the phase on your sub. If the sub is facing towards the rear, than inverting the polairy will make it sound a bit better. Better stil, make the sub face inside the car, you will loose bass, but it will sound better on trance.

Also, if your running bass boost, dont run it to far down, like nowhere underneet 50hertz.
Try crossingover your sub at a lower frequency, and let your front splits take car of most of the bass (remember, as trance bass is more mid, than sub bass).

The next thing would be to sound deaden your boot, this is ment to make the bass quicker, and more punch. I am doing it in the next week, so i will post my results here.

Please keep in mind, that it dosnt matter what sub you have, it will always hit late on trance, because that is the nature of the music, and it is excatly how the music was created

yea thats the problem and its giving me the ****s, i just want the damn sub to play the doof part not the bass that follows it, i have set the woofer to repsond 100hz to 40hz i think it, but all the doof and bassline that follows looms in the same frequency, which therfore makes the bass goes like this , dooddadodddodododaoado, rahter then a nice clean doof doof doof, some song its fines, cause the bass that follows doesn't loom in this region,

Contrary to what was said above, you can get these subwoofers to sound okay. But like any subwoofer, the enclosure needs to be made correctly to suit the subwoofer and the sound you want. See manufacturers build pre-loaded enclosures which are generally designed to sound "okay for all genres but specialised for none". These enclousres are also designed to be the safest (i.e. the volume that is going to result in the least amount of subwoofers coming back damaged for warranty repair). Therefore you can see why they might not be best suited for each individual application.

If you chose to make your own enclosure, it's not just a matter of grabbing the Thiele / Small specs and building an enclosure based on what programs like WinISD dictate either.

When we build subwoofer enclosures here we first measure the subwoofers T/S specs. We then take these specs and design the enclosure not only to suit these specs of that particular subwoofer (which sometimes are nothing like the company lists on the spec sheet) but also the car size, shape and type of music to be played.:D