when do ya need a capicitor?.im runnin heaps of stuff and there is no distortion or anything even when its cranked ..ive seen people runnin way less stuff than me and they are using them ?? i dunno ;..

when do ya need a capicitor?.im runnin heaps of stuff and there is no distortion or anything even when its cranked ..ive seen people runnin way less stuff than me and they are using them ?? i dunno ;..
Never.
A capacitor is only a bandaid fix for a more serious problem, and that's lack of current, usually due to poor quality cables/install or cables that are too small OR you're alternator/battery just can't handle the load, in which your only option is to upgrade them.

Then I would say no....

Never.
A capacitor is only a bandaid fix for a more serious problem, and that's lack of current, usually due to poor quality cables/install or cables that are too small OR you're alternator/battery just can't handle the load, in which your only option is to upgrade them.

:stoopid: yep
shouldnt need a capacitor
with the right cabling and grounding it should all be good
they are mainly just for show

hmm im in the same boat as you, but i was talking to a guy who has like 8tv's 60 neons and subs and the whole deal. and he said put a capacitor in and your batt will last ages, as mine was running flat really quick even tho its a fairly new battery, i dont know how it helps as the capacitor is only acting as a buffer and not supplying any current. but he highly reccomended it, so i guess thats why some ppl are running capacitors when they dont appear to need them. this will also reduce the risk of the dreaded clipping effect, but i have gone overbored with my wiring and i dont have any issues except my batt goes flat in 20 mins on medium volume. this guy i spoke to knows his stuff, he has cars that are in the auto salon, you can pick up a 1 farad capacitor for $100 at jarcar

ive got all good wires and that they are all 4 guage wirin and that 150 buck later i got few good wires lol .. i reckon it is worth it though ..coz then i dont go through amps and that coz the wires are too small and strainig the amps ..

how many amps you running??
having the amps on full gain will overwork them more
dont forget to upgrade the ground in the engine bay from the battery
you dont need a capacitor but if you really want one get one

when you say heaps of stuff. how much is that. i have 2 amps and the max draw is 70 amps. the alternator is 85 amp. so at max audio output the car has to run on 15 amps. not good. the solution is a bigger alternator. i would need a 155 amp to not have problems (85+70)

im runnin 2 six inches, 4 six by nines , 2 amps 1000wrms, 2 1300w subs ..nearly always cranked lol..

As has been said, capacitors are a crap band aid fix to bigger issues. The only real use for them is for extra bling.
The main issues are generally, cables (too small), battery (not big enough or a cheap garbage one), alternator (can't produce enough current).
Fix these first, but sounds like you don't have any issues anyway.
With that sort of power I would have run 2 gauge cables, but if 4 gauge is coping that's fine, just make sure it is fused at the battery.
Cheers
Pete

i just went and checked them and they are a 0 gauge lol ..they are fu^&in HUUUUUGE ! hehe my bad .. :P

i see you have a sony and a bezerk amp.. model numbers? i doubt anything from bezerk would scratch near 1000W RMS, and there are few sony's that can achieve such a rating.

technically, with an amp that has no regulated power supply, a capacitor would prove useful for the slightest hint of extra sound quality, merely due to decreased alternation in voltage to the amp, which means the speaker levels arent jumping, but this improvement would be nigh unmeasurable.

for your every day system, i would nearly never recommend a cap.

do bezerk and xplod make 1000wrms amps? but no you dont need cap, bigger/better battery, proper earths etc and you should be fine, im probably gonna have one in my new install but its just a filler/wank factor thing as im going to be hitting the show scene mid this year or start of the next :)

(please note, im not going for god of auto salon etc... just want a half decent ride thats a bit showy :P)

the bezerk is the better one out if them it was round 799 or sumtin ..cant remember its ***i&n reliable but ..i have been through a couple of 6x9 amp the bezerk has ben there for ages ..i dont mind it hey ...

deffinetly get a capisitor when your headligths stat flickering cos my mates car his head lights started to look like they where turning on and off but i was just because he was running to much power now that he has a couple of capisitors everything is better

deffinetly get a capisitor when your headligths stat flickering cos my mates car his head lights started to look like they where turning on and off but i was just because he was running to much power now that he has a couple of capisitors everything is better

refer to every other post in this thread. caps are a waste of money when the same money could have been put towards a better electrical system.

the bezerk is the better one out if them it was round 799 or sumtin ..cant remember its ***i&n reliable but ..i have been through a couple of 6x9 amp the bezerk has ben there for ages ..i dont mind it hey ...
I would have spent that $800 on an MTX or JBL amp... :confused:

No cap... just upgrade your wiring unless you want a fire hazard in your boot...

SO, WHAT IS A CAPACITOR GOOD FOR?

1. Audio Jewelry- impress chicks with large cylindrical shiny thingy
2. Extra weight in winter time
3. A very POOR... BUT expensive distribution block
4. A projectile in the event of a crash
5. Rolling pin--for cooking purposes
6. A neat thing to tell your friend, "..Hey man, lick the top of this..

taken from an article on caps :)

. this guy i spoke to knows his stuff, he has cars that are in the auto salon,

he MUST know his stuff then :nuts:

CAPS are rated in farads 0.5 1.0 2.0 3.0 etc. If you have large ported subs for long extended bass notes then a cap would be a good idea. If your serious about car audio get alarge cap 2.0 or 3.0 farad. When your car is running it produces 14.4 volts not 12, Drop below 14.4 volts and your amp will drop its RMS rating, A cap will help with this problem. Higher volts mean higher RMS.

CAPS are rated in farads 0.5 1.0 2.0 3.0 etc. If you have large ported subs for long extended bass notes then a cap would be a good idea. If your serious about car audio get alarge cap 2.0 or 3.0 farad. When your car is running it produces 14.4 volts not 12, Drop below 14.4 volts and your amp will drop its RMS rating, A cap will help with this problem. Higher volts mean higher RMS.

quite the opposite mate :) a cap is useful for about 0.2 seconds of bass, then it will actually lower the performance of your system after said 0.2 seconds than if you had no cap at all.

quite the opposite mate :) a cap is useful for about 0.2 seconds of bass, then it will actually lower the performance of your system after said 0.2 seconds than if you had no cap at all.
Exactly.
Speakers need current to operate, when you increase the voltage using a cap you lower the current (most basic electricity formula).

quite the opposite mate :) a cap is useful for about 0.2 seconds of bass, then it will actually lower the performance of your system after said 0.2 seconds than if you had no cap at all.

Correct! Capicators by definition are only used to store electric current in any electrical system (not just car audio) for milliseconds. They really have no applications in car audio, you will always find a big enough battery to pump out your sound.

Find a deep cycle audio battery and place it in the boot, instead of wasting money on caps.

Exactly.
Speakers need current to operate, when you increase the voltage using a cap you lower the current (most basic electricity formula).

Correct again.

Increasing the voltage, means you have to lessen the resistance of your cables by getting lower gauge cable, simply to deliver the same electrical current.

Ohms law - V = I*R

Exactly.
Speakers need current to operate, when you increase the voltage using a cap you lower the current (most basic electricity formula).
Correct again.

Increasing the voltage, means you have to lessen the resistance of your cables by getting lower gauge cable, simply to deliver the same electrical current.

Ohms law - V = I*R
Do any of you have any clue?

Do any of you have any clue?

Well how about instead of being rude, you please enlighten us, so that we may have said clue.

PS. Not to be rude. I am genuinely interested. I know you know a lot about car audio. I just didn't like the way you said it. :doubt:

Capacitors make a very VERY big difference in car audio... BUT this technology is already incorporated into amplifier topology.

Adding an extra cap is simply more things to get in the way of your electric system and another thing to introduce noise and cause you grief.

An external cap will not give any audible benefits. They have been proven to yield lower SPL figures over extended periods (as woob pointed out) they offer no SQ benefit it is a myth this whole flattening out of voltage spikes leads to better SQ this is alreday incorporated into the cheapest amps.

They are just good for bling, if you realise this then i have no problem with anyone running them.

If you want to boost up your power system and give your amp the power it needs, look at wiring, grounds and a battery - altenator upgrade.

Peace

Tim

Edit: in regards to previous misconceptions:


Speakers need current to operate, when you increase the voltage using a cap you lower the current (most basic electricity formula).
A cap doesnt increase voltage, it stores charge (Q) The theory in car audio is that your battery cannot discharge as quick as a capacitor. So the sale speil is that on the big bass hits the amp takes the power from the cap and by the time the next bass hit comes the battery has had enough time to recharge the cap. This is why in SPL matches caps cause problems. The amp discharges the cap, this may take 0.5 a second... Then once the cap is flat, instead of having a direct feed to the battery all power must come via this flat cap which is trying to recharge.

In reality, if instead of having a cap in the power route, we just had a bigger cable, the current flow can increase and everyone is happy. Everything you do on the power side you need to do to the ground side.

My suggestions for power upgrades: In the following order... Clean ground terminals in engine bay. Upgrade cables to 4, 2 or 0 gauge, upgrade ground at the amps and at the battery, upgrade Battery to optima or odyssey, upgrade altenator wires, upgrade altenator, and only after all this would a second battery be beneficial.

Well there you go.

Thanks.

Well how about instead of being rude, you please enlighten us, so that we may have said clue...
It annoys me when people say stuff that they have no idea about... If you don't know ask and you shall find out instead of winging it... its misinformation that causes more harm than good and the net is rife with it.

In regards to this:

Increasing the voltage, means you have to lessen the resistance of your cables by getting lower gauge cable, simply to deliver the same electrical current.

Ohms law - V = I*R

Increasing the voltage can be done in a car, although unless u are a serious SPL junkie u would be stupid to. (this involves adding smaller batteries inline with your current one, or modifying car batteries by rerouting the joiners to the banks...

What I think you were trying to say just got a little backwards...

The statement should have been...

Getting lower gauge (bigger) cables will lessen the resistance from your battery to your amp which in turn will reduce voltage drop.

It will not increase voltage per se i.e. if you added reallly really thick wire you wont get 16 v at your battery, but it will stop the small amount of voltage drop that occurs when there is a high resistance in your wires. This in turn leads to higher voltage at your amps, and higher output.

Looking at ohms law then.... Wouldn't the capacitor actually be aiding the power delivery to the amps in particular instances, and impeading it at other times? Therefore a cap could be justified...depending on it's intended use?

There is an ongoing debate on the use of caps seemingly everywhere you go... And its mainly due to a misconception that a cap can provide MORE power to a system at ALL times.

*throws a spanner* lol

A capacitor has a much lower RESISTANCE than a battery, and it is this property that many ppl say is the reason to place a capacitor in the electrical system. During a heavy current surge, the cap will momentarily provide a short burst of power at a much lower internal resistance than what a battery could, so .... looking again at the formula:

Voltage= Current * Resistance

This would mean that (because the potential resistance of a capped system is lower) the current potential would have to be higher to make the voltage read the same as a non capped system. therefore a capped system would have a higher (momentary) CURRENT potential than a non capped system.

The problem with caps is that, after the initial burst of electrical power has been given, it starts drawing current away (internal resistance increases) from the circuit to recharge. This is bad for ppl wanting more spl, as the efficiency of the available power becomes lower than a non capped system (due to the fact that the capacitor becomes a liability during prolonged current surges). SQ wise though, I can see that a cap would provide a short supply of available power to help keep amps power supplys stable and shorts bursts of high current for "dynamic" power would be more readily available in a capped system.

So (in theory) a capacitor would "tighten" shorts bursts of bass hits, but a prolonged bass track would begin to make the capacitor more of a liability than an asset.

I've got a system that has over 2000WRMS on tap, and I don't have a cap ATM, but I do intend to get one in the near future. Once my current project has been finnished, I'll have over 600WRMS going to my front soundstage PER SIDE!!! The cap will provide a stable power supply for the split's amps, and the subwoofer amps will have there own circuit, bypassing the cap altogether. To keep the cap isolated to the front amps only, I'll use a set of diodes, which will lower the voltage slightly, but in turn, will provide an ultra stable power supply, unaffected by the other components in the system.

*fires a warning shot then runs into a building* :)

:edit: Sorry Tim, it took soooo long to write this response, u snuck a post in before I could!!!

There's no doubt about it on the SPL side that they are a waste...

On the SQ side of things: It is one of those neverending debates same as the magical $500 RCA cables. I would put big money down to say that in blind tests with top quality gear no one could pick the difference at low volumes in the car environment with/without a cap 8 times out of 10.

But SQ is a subjective thing if you think it should sound better then it will to you. So in that respect it is money well spent :)

I stick by keeping things simple and safe. Big cable, chunky connectors, short grounds and so on. I also believe in putting your money where your ears will hear the difference. A cheap cap is a total waste and will do more damage than good. An expensive cap... 2 - 3 farads costs an absolute fortune.

This money could usually be better spent on another battery, an altenator upgrade, bigger cables, door prep, better gear etc. Once you've broken the $10,000 k budget I think there is a place for exxy RCA cables and possibly even caps. But its getting into that esoteric airy fairy SQ land that people pretend they can here.

Peace

Tim

Do any of you have any clue?
Ok poor choice of words (Been a tiring day at work), but there's no need to be an ass about it.

All i'm trying to say is, you can't create current that didn't already exist. Like said above after a bass note hits and the cap discharges, the amp then has to pull power from the battery as well as compete with a cap trying to recharge which ends up making things worse.

Do any of you have any clue?

It annoys me when people say stuff that they have no idea about... If you don't know ask and you shall find out instead of winging it... its misinformation that causes more harm than good and the net is rife with it.
...
I'm with you on that, I’ve read so many threads where people make comments in areas that they obviously have no idea about…this one just sticks out more than usual…

it does create more current though :P for those few milliseconds the current to the system is boosted as the cap can discharge faster than the batt. as soon as it is depleted, it becomes the bottleneck in the system, slowing current more than if it wasnt there.