hey guys i have a set af ralliart extactors and i plan on putting them on my 98 tf...i was wondering what to pair em to? weather to get a completely new exhaust system or to just get a new extractors to cat pipe and get a hi-flo muffler like vrx. coz i think the ralliart extractors and abit longer from memory

thanx

Go the whole new exhaust.

You do realise that the Ralliart headers are good for a whole........wait for it............1kW, yes I said it, 1kW.

So save your pennies and get some pacemakers.

Go the whole new exhaust.

You do realise that the Ralliart headers are good for a whole........wait for it............1kW, yes I said it, 1kW.

So save your pennies and get some pacemakers.

how much they (pacemkers)

how much they (pacemkers)

I believe anywhere between 300-400$, not sure, I got mine as part of a package with the exhaust and cat for a touch over 1000$.

I believe anywhere between 300-400$, not sure, I got mine as part of a package with the exhaust and cat for a touch over 1000$.

More than that dude. Mine just landed at the zorst shop Friday to be fitted this week. The basic price is $600, and then you pay a motza more for ceramic coating (which I have done - silver). The other $400 of your $1,000 was labour and your other parts I reckon.

$600 fitted in QLD for pacemakers

Has anyone done before and after dyno runs with the Paccies ?
Interested to know what they add by themselves compared to Ralliart headers as mentioned earlier in the thread.

Dunno bout dyno runs, but fuel economy gets the big thumbs up.... I just checked tax last year mine were $619 fitted... Looking at other stock TH magnas, I have seen between 92 n 103 kw atw, I took mine in a month ago n it registered 117, so possibly good gain

You won't see much of a gain in peak power with extractors on a stock motor, probably no more than 3-5kw. Howeve, theere is a quote noticeable gain in midrange punch, as if the torque curve is whole moved up 500rpm or so.

If you get pacies, upgrade your flex pipe section to 2.5", IMO the factory flex/02 pipe is too restrictive. Once you factor in the cost of that, the rpw race-spec headers don't seem so expensive anymore, as they come with a 2.5" flex/02 pipe that bolts straight up.


Dunno bout dyno runs, but fuel economy gets the big thumbs up.... I just checked tax last year mine were $619 fitted... Looking at other stock TH magnas, I have seen between 92 n 103 kw atw, I took mine in a month ago n it registered 117, so possibly good gain

Those would have been autos...92-103kw seems too low for a manual TH.

Go the whole new exhaust.

You do realise that the Ralliart headers are good for a whole........wait for it............1kW, yes I said it, 1kW.

So save your pennies and get some pacemakers.

Pacemakers aren't all that...despite the marketing hype. I fitted Pacemakers to my previous TH Sports, and I remember even the guy fitting them wasn't convinced they were the best flowing design. And honestly I don't remember a stitch of difference in feel. And believe me after shelling out $500, i was really looking for it every time I drove it!

I went to a dyno day not long after expecting big things and ended up with virtually an identical power reading to other TH 3.5's. Very disappointing.

Ralliart headers may not be perfect either, and as Chisholm says, if there's a fault it's probably in the flex pipe design. But then I hear of Ralliart drivers swapping out their stainless steel headers for Pacemakers and I just shake my head :roll:

Well I can say I'm quite happy after recently putting in RPW race-spec headers and flex pipe. Definantely feels noticeably stronger in the 3000-4500rpm range, after that no discernable difference in peak power.

it's like the torque curve has been moved up, 3000 rpm feels as strong as 3500rpm, 3500rpm like 4000, etc.

So from 3,000-6,000 rpm, the first half of the power band feels much stronger, which if you think about is pretty good.

AFAIK ralliart headers won't do ****, they are not tuned-length, and the primaries are short. What you need is long equal-length runners.

They give ya .2 of a second at willowbank drags, pacemakers that is

They give ya .2 of a second at willowbank drags, pacemakers that is

Thats not too bad at all. Might seam like a little bit, in real terms thats a fair bit quicker for just extractors.

ok take it from someone who has put them on his car,

i got the ralliart extractors and put a custom y pipe/ down pipe (what ever)

i and any of my friends who had been in or drove my car that it wanted to rev almost to limiter, the car felt quite different i was very impressed and happy with the result.

i also remember reading somewhere that RPW tols some of the ralliart boys that if u wanted your car to rev more and feel free up top , to keep the ralliart ectractors and modify the down/y pipe

something else i find interesting here is that some ppl get less known brands like HM or wildcat extractors or other brands and say how goos they are, when infact they are actually ralliart copies
HM EXTRACTOR DESIGN (http://i7.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/a1/a9/a5d1_1_b.JPG) <-- click
Ralli//////////////////art (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/FNFAT6/100_0411.jpg) LOL <-- click

interesting huh ?

while i havnt experienced them RPW extractors are the best but are they worth it? thats for each of us to decide.

but dont listen to those who will tell you what to do and have not even modded their car and have no experience as to what works for their magna.

i would say if u can get hold of a set cheaply or second hand then go for it, i do not regret mine

i thought it was actually HM Headers that were commissioned to make the Ralliart Extractors?

i thought it was actually HM Headers that were commissioned to make the Ralliart Extractors?

yeah but what im getting at is some ppl will say HM or wildcat are great but ralliart extractors suck

yeah but what im getting at is some ppl will say HM or wildcat are great but ralliart extractors suck

Well dem peoples is fools...

/token black guy voice.

Pacemakers will outperform the HM/ralliart design

Well dem peoples is fools...

/token black guy voice.

Pacemakers will outperform the HM/ralliart design

well no i dont think one can be better than the other as both move poer to different parts of the rev range, so it really comes down to what u want, much the same as different cam grinds that are only effective for a certain rev range

Wildcats are pressbent arnt they? HM desgined the top half for mitsu, they they used there own bottom half, the complete HM headers are suposed to be much better than the ralliart ones.

AFAIK wildcats are pressbends, RPW/Liverpool exhausts are mandrel bend, and a pretty darned good design at that.

I have seen Pacemakers dyno'ed against Genie independently (and against the stock headers) - I decided against pacemakers - this wasn't for a Magna though. It was hardly inspiring nevertheless...

Cheers
Heath Young

well no i dont think one can be better than the other as both move poer to different parts of the rev range, so it really comes down to what u want, much the same as different cam grinds that are only effective for a certain rev range

I'm talking from a design point of view. The primaries on the ralliart headers are too short comparedd to the Pacemaker design. Look as the dyno curve of a Magan fitted with both headers and I'm certain you will notice a bigger overall incrase in the power curve from Pacmakers, that why I said they out perform. The ralliart desing would free up flow and push the peak power further up the rev range, but the Pacmakers will give a greater overall incease in power. And that would be more beneficcial as you are making the mid range stronger where you spend most of the time. We are driving street cars afterall.

ok take it from someone who has put them on his car,

i got the ralliart extractors and put a custom y pipe/ down pipe (what ever)

i and any of my friends who had been in or drove my car that it wanted to rev almost to limiter, the car felt quite different i was very impressed and happy with the result.

i also remember reading somewhere that RPW tols some of the ralliart boys that if u wanted your car to rev more and feel free up top , to keep the ralliart ectractors and modify the down/y pipe

something else i find interesting here is that some ppl get less known brands like HM or wildcat extractors or other brands and say how goos they are, when infact they are actually ralliart copies
HM EXTRACTOR DESIGN (http://i7.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/a1/a9/a5d1_1_b.JPG) <-- click
Ralli//////////////////art (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a368/FNFAT6/100_0411.jpg) LOL <-- click

interesting huh ?

while i havnt experienced them RPW extractors are the best but are they worth it? thats for each of us to decide.

but dont listen to those who will tell you what to do and have not even modded their car and have no experience as to what works for their magna.

i would say if u can get hold of a set cheaply or second hand then go for it, i do not regret mine

i got a never been used set of ralliart extractors for.....$20 lol

i beleive in handeling and response as opposed to getting the most power out of my engine. quick throttle response, higher exit speeds...such things of this nature...im not to fussed about power in high rpms...its good but not the be all and end all

Look, you are most likely going to get sweet ****-all from the ralliart extractors, because they aren't a proper tuned-length design, and thefore dont do any real "extracting".

Seeing as you are gonna spend $200 on labour, or half a day of your own/mates time to get them installed, IMO get proper extractors or don't bother at all.

It's all very well getting them for $20, but that doesn't justify the labour/time involved to install them, for what's likely to be an inmeasurable gain.

I''m sure what I'm saying isn't what you wanto hear, but I don't like seeing people easte their money/time.

Look, you are most likely going to get sweet ****-all from the ralliart extractors, because they aren't a proper tuned-length design, and thefore dont do any real "extracting".

Seeing as you are gonna spend $200 on labour, or half a day of your own/mates time to get them installed, IMO get proper extractors or don't bother at all.

It's all very well getting them for $20, but that doesn't justify the labour/time involved to install them, for what's likely to be an inmeasurable gain.

I''m sure what I'm saying isn't what you wanto hear, but I don't like seeing people easte their money/time.

what are you talking about "not tune lenght"....im going to have to get a custom y pipe made up wich is also going to be tune lenght because the ralliart headers are longer

Look, you are most likely going to get sweet ****-all from the ralliart extractors, because they aren't a proper tuned-length design, and thefore dont do any real "extracting".

Seeing as you are gonna spend $200 on labour, or half a day of your own/mates time to get them installed, IMO get proper extractors or don't bother at all.

It's all very well getting them for $20, but that doesn't justify the labour/time involved to install them, for what's likely to be an inmeasurable gain.

I''m sure what I'm saying isn't what you wanto hear, but I don't like seeing people easte their money/time.

well all i can speak from is my personal evperience, as i have said already and phonic also they tend to push the power further up the rev range, where as pacies and rpw do give better mid range which is a proven fact.

somewhere on this forum RPW has even said get the Y pipe or what ever it is called replaced with ralliart extractors if u want top and and rev.

so its really comes down to what each and every person wants, personally i like cars that wind out better, i got the ralliart headers and got exhaust shop to make the y pipe up themsleves, i honestly couldnt have been happier with the results, and it is not a case of the placebo effect.

i think its a bit ruff to say 20 bucks for the headers plus extra 200 for fitting and custom piping is a waste, as u can buy ralliart copies for 800or there abouts ( HM extractors)

end of the day im not saying what u are saying is wrong for what u want out of your car but everyone is looking for a different powerband ... much the same as ppl umm and ahh over turbo size .. same sort of princible but yer im not trying to be argumentative but sometimes there seems to be a mentality with magnas that there is only 1 way to get power

well all i can speak from is my personal evperience, as i have said already and phonic also they tend to push the power further up the rev range, where as pacies and rpw do give better mid range which is a proven fact.

somewhere on this forum RPW has even said get the Y pipe or what ever it is called replaced with ralliart extractors if u want top and and rev.

so its really comes down to what each and every person wants, personally i like cars that wind out better, i got the ralliart headers and got exhaust shop to make the y pipe up themsleves, i honestly couldnt have been happier with the results, and it is not a case of the placebo effect.

i think its a bit ruff to say 20 bucks for the headers plus extra 200 for fitting and custom piping is a waste, as u can buy ralliart copies for 800or there abouts ( HM extractors)

end of the day im not saying what u are saying is wrong for what u want out of your car but everyone is looking for a different powerband ... much the same as ppl umm and ahh over turbo size .. same sort of princible but yer im not trying to be argumentative but sometimes there seems to be a mentality with magnas that there is only 1 way to get power

tru dat.........and the reason i got the headers so cheap is because one of my m8's dads worked at the lonsdale plant and ....got some stuff and flogged it cheaplol

what are you talking about "not tune lenght

He is talking about tunned length in regards to the primaries. Not so much the equal length of the merger pipes. If you look at the ralliart headers, they arn't really too much longer then the standard cast manifold.

More than that dude. Mine just landed at the zorst shop Friday to be fitted this week. The basic price is $600, and then you pay a motza more for ceramic coating (which I have done - silver). The other $400 of your $1,000 was labour and your other parts I reckon.


$600 fitted in QLD for pacemakers

Hmmmmz, if these are the V6 24v ones, I've seen em as low as $300.

He is talking about tunned length in regards to the primaries. Not so much the equal length of the merger pipes. If you look at the ralliart headers, they arn't really too much longer then the standard cast manifold.

primaries...wots that...never herda them b4...wot r they

primaries...wots that...never herda them b4...wot r they


Learn how to type properly.

Primarys are the first lot of pipes from your heads that run down underneith the engine and merge. They have to be equal, front and back for good low down torque.

Learn how to type properly.

lets not and say we did

and to all of you h8ers out there..."dont b trippen coz i b makin sure that all of the pipes and what not are all the same lenght and shiz"

" i'll chickity check my pipes, b4 i reck my pipes":nuts:

Primarys are the first lot of pipes from your heads that run down underneith the engine and merge. They have to be equal, front and back for good low down torque.

AFAIK, tuned length primaries benefit power throughout the revrange by encourageing smoother exhaust gas flow and therefore better velocity, as the exhaust gas pulses are being collected in a sequential manner, rather than running into each other.

It's the length/width of the primaries that dictate at which rpm/gas volume you have the most efficiency. E.g short/narrow is good for low-rpm power, as it keeps the exhaust gas velocity up, but hurts top-end power when you need to flow much more gas. It's common to see very elaborate tuned-length setups on the n/a touring cars of old, like in the Group A R31 which I happen to have a picture of.


OP:

My opinion is with the ralliart/MH type headers, you may gain a small amout of peak power, but nothing else, whereas with tuned-lengths like the pacies or RPWs, you will also gain a couple of kw of peak power, but relatively large gains in the midrange. It's not a case of pacies/RPW's restricing top-end power over the ralliart/MH stuff.

I know which scenario I'd prefer (cost aside, $20 ralliart vs the retail cost of pacies/rpw somewhat complicates things, depends on your budget/goals). Remember, it's not purely peak power that dictates how fast you go, its how much power you are making along the way, it's about power made averaged over your powerband.

Look I don't mind proved wrong on the matter, this is the opinion I have formed, after talking to some very knowledgable people and what from what I understand. Personally I think the ralliart/MH headers are often overrated, and do ****-all besides maybe adding say 1-3 kw at the top-end. I'm not really interested in arguing for the sake of it, I just don't like seeing people spending money/time under false expectations, so I will put in my 2 cents.