I had a wierd problem today - I stopped off at my parents place this arvo - and left my car running in the driveway (was only going to be there for a minute).

One minute turned in to 10 minutes, and I could hear the car's fan come on to cool the engine down two or three times.

When I got back to the car - I backed out the drive, and as I drove off I noticed heaps of white smoke pouring out the back of the car (quite severely - I could hardly see out the rear view mirror). The car still had power, and sounded normal (didn't make a bang or anything). I quickly pulled over - give it a few seconds - then drove off again. The white smoke was still there, though not quite as bad. After about 20 seconds it returned to normal - and since then I have not had any problems.

The oil and the coolant both look normal colours (no 'milkyness') - so I don't think its the head gasket. I am guessing that it would have to be the valve stem seals - and that leaving the car idle just allowed the oil to collect in the cylinders, until it burned off when I drove away?

What other problems would dodgy valve stem seals cause? Could it effect fuel economy?

On a 3L V6, is this a big job to fix?

Cheers,
Kim :)

I had a wierd problem today - I stopped off at my parents place this arvo - and left my car running in the driveway (was only going to be there for a minute).

One minute turned in to 10 minutes, and I could hear the car's fan come on to cool the engine down two or three times.

When I got back to the car - I backed out the drive, and as I drove off I noticed heaps of white smoke pouring out the back of the car (quite severely - I could hardly see out the rear view mirror). The car still had power, and sounded normal (didn't make a bang or anything). I quickly pulled over - give it a few seconds - then drove off again. The white smoke was still there, though not quite as bad. After about 20 seconds it returned to normal - and since then I have not had any problems.

The oil and the coolant both look normal colours (no 'milkyness') - so I don't think its the head gasket. I am guessing that it would have to be the valve stem seals - and that leaving the car idle just allowed the oil to collect in the cylinders, until it burned off when I drove away?

What other problems would dodgy valve stem seals cause? Could it effect fuel economy?

On a 3L V6, is this a big job to fix?

Cheers,
Kim :)

Never leave your car idling for more than a few minutes. Very bad for the engine. Having
said that, are you sure it was white smoke and not blue smoke. If its the valve stem seals
the smoke would've been bluish in colour. I know as my old ks was like that. Idle at the
lights for a few seconds, take off and puffs of blue smoke come out.

Yes Kim ,I agree with Vlad,oil burns blue, I believe brake fluid or tranny fluid will
make white smoke. A faulty brake booster will allow fluid to be sucked into the
manifold through the vac line. Check brake fluid level and the inside of the vac
hose for wetness.
It was a common problem on old vaccum shift autos but all magna's would be
fully electronic controlled I'd expect. A test to see if it is valve stem seals is a long
down hill run with throttle closed ,it will produce smoke upon re-acceleration.
Fitting new ones without removing heads is possible but not easy,special tools
needed. Good luck:cool:

Happened to me too before, But it was cold....i see it more on cold days...

I doubt it'd be anything major

I disagree with vlad and ozguy, sounds very much like valve stem seals, I've had the same problem on and off for about 2years. I reckon you'd have to have major oil bleed to make it turn blue. The little bit introduced via leaking stem seals I reckon would amount to the light grey / white look.
Some of the additives out there can soften the seals a bit to put it off for a while, but if possible get them replaced and be done with it.

I think the only problems it could cause (apart from hurt pride) are on a long-term basis, clogging the cat converter and maybe fouling the oxygen sensor.

Oil can and does burn white. It depends on temperature.
Sounds like valve stem seals to me, you leave the engine idling, oil coats the back of the valves/top of the pistons if bad enough, and when you drive off, the increased combustion temperatures burn off the oil.
I bet, if you park your car on a steep hill pointing up or down overnight, you'd get some smoke too.
Valve stems are a fairly straightforward job with heads on engine (you need two readily availible special tools), but is more complicated on a mitsu V6 due to the intake system.

Regards, Andrew.

I think the only problems it could cause (apart from hurt pride) are on a long-term basis, clogging the cat converter and maybe fouling the oxygen sensor.
Valve stem seals have some side effects. The back of the valves will carbon and coke up, reducing flow. I am sure some on the board will remember having an old car that ran better after a long trip? Usually due to teh deposits on the valves being cleaned off by the high speed work.
You will also get nasty carbon buildup on top of the pistons, which increases compression ratios a bit, but also causes hotspots, which can lead to detonation.
The beauty of it is, that once you stop the oil flow throug the seals, the engine will slowly self clean.

Regards, Andrew.

Thanks for the info. It was fairly overcast lighting today - so maybe would have been hard to tell the difference between blueish smoke and white smoke. Could have been either.

I'll keep an eye on it - will test the down-hill run thing...

Cheers,
Kim :)

Take the car to a radiator place and get them to pressure test the system , because white 'smoke' doesn't mean oil burning to me. Warped heads don't always let water into the oil, it depends where the gasket lets go, it might be a different story over the next few days though. I had a TM magna that had the head welded 3 times in about 3 months (no spirited driving was involved, just the Beenleigh to Gold Coast commute), thankfully the normally useless/dodgy warranties that come with cheap cars from dealers actually came through on each occasion, never noticed any water in the oil, just a temp gauge that went through the roof.

On one of my previous cars it had stem seal wear, and that showed up by having a bit of blue smoke on start up, maybe continuing for 20 seconds or so while it cleared out the oil.
Stem seals will normally be a startup thing, as some of the oil will drain down onto the backs of the valves while its sitting and exagerate the effect on startup. And it won't go away by itself, it may be less noticeable on some days than others but it will continue to be a problem until you do something about it.

I have seen a few cars give out white 'smoke' when they are boot it and try to accelerate away - mostly falcons/holdens lol, looked like unburnt fuel coming out the back. Which could be your problem if the computer got a faulty reading from temp sensor etc and pumped more fuel through than the car needed when you took off.

In your case since the car spent a while idling prior to the problem, I would rule out a head water leak first, because this is likely to be the worst possible scenario for engine and wallet . anything else such as stem seals will more than likely just worsen performance and not be terminal for engine.

are you sure that it was not just a build up of moisture in the pipes. cos the exhaust is moving slower down the exhaust pipe it cools and condences into liquid. If left for a long time quite a pool can form. once you start to drive again the exhaust will heat up again and cause the water to evaporate steaming out the tailpipe. the length of idle time might explain why there was more than the normal water vapor coming out the back.

Definately wasn't just a build up of moisture - the car was already at temperature (no more moisture in the exhaust system). Spoke my mechanic briefly - he wondered if it might be the rings.

Kim

I think you should get a second opinion with that. How many Ks has the engine done? I'm no expert but would suspect stem seals would let go before the rings were worn enough to make that much smoke. Your symptoms seem much the same as my old 2.6 which I have always thought needed valve stem seals.

I understand that the 3.0 and the 2.6 as fitted to 2nd gen magnas were the easiest to fix stem seals on beacuse the head does not have to be removed. Apparently the part itself is very cheap (one or two dollars) and they can be installed over a weekend by a confident amateur with the use of a valve spring compressor.

I would have thought you'd be best investigating doing this first (either yourself or with mates or by paying someone) and seeing if it resolves the issue. It could very well save you heaps of money and inconvenience ( I see you're thinking of selling of your car in pieces atm)

I would have thought a fully reconditioned engine, or a new one (do they exist anywhere?), should never cost you more than $1.5-2K?

If the rings were worn, wouldn't the engine smoke all the time?

If the rings were worn, wouldn't the engine smoke all the time?

Yeah, spoke to another person who said its definitely not the rings - the rings would smoke all the time when the car is under load/accelerating.

Mine only smokes if its left idling for a few minutes.

EDIT: I think it may have just been something really simple - running oil too thin. Am running thicker oil now and have not had a problem! :)

Kim

Yes, sounds like the rings.

Have you gotten a compression test done on it? This will tell you for sure.

are you sure that it was not just a build up of moisture in the pipes. cos the exhaust is moving slower down the exhaust pipe it cools and condences into liquid. If left for a long time quite a pool can form. once you start to drive again the exhaust will heat up again and cause the water to evaporate steaming out the tailpipe. the length of idle time might explain why there was more than the normal water vapor coming out the back.


I notice the same thing on my car every now and then after i have left it idling for a few minutes or more.
Never so bad that i cant see through the mirror.
I just wrote it off as being what the above quote is , although i have never thought to try to get some one to rev my car and see if it smokes so i can smell the smoke.

I'd be more inclined to say it's the valve stem seals. Like others have said, do a compression test first, this'll answer if it's the rings. Sounds more like stem seals to me anyhow.

I'd hate to see your car broken up as well mate, it's one of the best cars going round on here. That bar just looks awesome on the second gen shape.