The other night while "Recharging" my K and N filter I noticed something, the car ran a lot smoother when I didn't have the filter in, and it was a lot more responsive. If you created a less restrictive intake would it make a noticeable difference?

My theory is that two filters in a parallel set up would result in less vacuum after the filter's and thus more air entering the motor. I will need to do some testing with a vacuum gauge before I go building a new intake set up but I have some basic plans:

Diagram:

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8575/airintakeop3.jpg

The joins would be made at a 45 degree angle as to not stop the air, and I would probably have to use some more honeycomb to straiten out the air flow a little before it reaches the AFM but I think it could work.

Has anyone ever put a vacuum gauge before and after the filter to see the difference?

Please comment and discuss, I am welcome to ideas.

Wouldn't the second filter and the bends make it more restrictive.:think:

as long as the input to where the bends are made is not smaller than the current one it will make it less restrictive...

In most intake pressure tests I have seen, the filter is usally one of the smallest restrictions. But having said that, only one way to find out. :D

Some of the higher performance cars at work run a two air filter intake. I'll ask the foreman the next time theres one of them in.

Some of the higher performance cars at work run a two air filter intake. I'll ask the foreman the next time theres one of them in.


You mean like twin turbo cars or a single turbo/na car with twin intakes?

IMO i dont see the point of adding two filters with two intakes, why not just make a single less restrictive intake? Not that it makes a huge difference anyway.

You mean like twin turbo cars or a single turbo/na car with twin intakes?

IMO i dont see the point of adding two filters with two intakes, why not just make a single less restrictive intake? Not that it makes a huge difference anyway.


coz there is only so much you can open it up till the intake manifold mouth becomes the restriction. Thats when you do a twin throttle body setup, a TB either side of the manifold. That would be more beneficial.

its a bit off topic but this is what i would do.

How did u run the engine without the filter? Was there anything in the airbox to replace the filter, or was it left open to the engine bay? Was engine warm or cold? Etc?
K&N filter (when clean) reduces flow so little, that it's barely noticeble in slightly modded Magna donks.
Test: 2 L Turbo Calibra, ~300 hp,with or without K&N panel, there was 1-2 hp difference at full revs.

Just take your K&N off of the car, then and take it for a drive on a nice non-dusty, calm, day.

That = no restriction

You won't notice any difference between no filter, and filter. If you do, clean the K&N better :P

How did u run the engine without the filter? Was there anything in the airbox to replace the filter, or was it left open to the engine bay? Was engine warm or cold? Etc?
K&N filter (when clean) reduces flow so little, that it's barely noticeble in slightly modded Magna donks.
Test: 2 L Turbo Calibra, ~300 hp,with or without K&N panel, there was 1-2 hp difference at full revs.


There was just an open air box.

A turbo is a bad comparison, because it compresses air.

I think this is the same concept as having a dual exhaust.


*goes outside and straps 2 Pods to the verada*

There was just an open air box.
A turbo is a bad comparison, because it compresses air.

In other words, u were feeding the engine warm air - and even then it was better than with filter on feeding cold air. I'm connfused.... Unless of course, the engine was cold and enjoyed the momentary rich mixtrure and felt more torquey cos of that.....

Turbo doesn't blow before the filter.:)

The turbo still forces air through the air filter no matter where it is, the difference between a turbo and an engine is the turbo can suck, A LOT harder so the difference is smaller.

I will have to do some more tests and close the airbox up with no filter in it I think.

I can't see any benefit of this setup over 1 single large intake.
The only thing that might be different is the dual intake my create a swirling air effect, much like a pod, but that's just a wild guess.

The M5s at work run two air filter two CAI setups and from what the foreman told me, he reckons any sort of restriction in the additional intake system you install will be outweighed by merely having an additional port for air to come in.

Additional air is additional air, and any restriction in that system just means you get a bit less air. 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

The turbo still forces air through the air filter no matter where it is, the difference between a turbo and an engine is the turbo can suck, A LOT harder so the difference is smaller.
I will have to do some more tests and close the airbox up with no filter in it I think.

??? Turbo doesn't blow thru the air filter dude - otherwise it would bast it in to a mess...
Turbo doesn't suck air, it forces it in to the engine intake.
Keep testing. Once u come up with something revolutionary, let us know. Rolling rock doesn't grow weed - or something.

??? Turbo doesn't blow thru the air filter dude - otherwise it would bast it in to a mess...
Turbo doesn't suck air, it forces it in to the engine intake.
Keep testing. Once u come up with something revolutionary, let us know. Rolling rock doesn't grow weed - or something.

a turbo does suck air in much more than a standard intake, in theory this set up could work but it really will do stuff all. if all pipes were the exact same diameter, so two pipes each flowing air into one pipe the same size as the other 2, then there should be more air in there, but i wouldnt bother tryin, for the money n time makin this, its just a waste

Wow, Vacuum gauges are hard to find around here.

Anyone got a cheap one they don't need?

Just make up a simple manometer to test the pressure drop over the filter/ intake setup in front of the AFM. Here's how to make one.
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=453210&postcount=7
If you do get any results post them up here, I, and probably others, would be interested in seeing them.

I personally doubt that making two intake tubes/filters would be better than having one larger diameter tube and intake. Mainly because of the larger surface area to cross-sectional area ratio for the twin pipe compared to a single pipe with the same cross sectional area.

The M5s at work run two air filter two CAI setups and from what the foreman told me,

Thats cause M5's run two throttle bodies, so one intake per throttle.

[QUOTE=NEDDDY]a turbo does suck air in much more than a standard intake[/QUOTE

Turbo = forced induction. Doesn't "suck", blows in. Generally about 0.8 bars of extra pressure compared to surrounding atmospheric pressure. Some more serious turbo pressures reach 1.8 bar, in road cars that is.
This is the reason why forced induction engines keep delivering same power even in high altitudes, unlike normally aspirated, when the atmo pressure is lesser. Less atmo pressure = less feed to the engine. Cos the engine doesn't suck, air pressure fills it. Well, only the Commodore 3.8 L donks suck.... :D
Anyways, back to work now.

my god, will you guys get over it. You are both right, a turbo SUCKS air from outside and BLOWS it into the engine. Now everybody is happy!

What makes anyone think the stock intake is restrictive?

my god, will you guys get over it. You are both right, a turbo SUCKS air from outside and BLOWS it into the engine. Now everybody is happy!

lol its like one of them didnt think about where the air was coming from, and the other didnt think about where it was going

What makes anyone think the stock intake is restrictive?

lol

Just... because!!!

:bowrofl:

The stock intake will only be restrictive if it is smaller than the smallest part of the throttle body. Now I have seen the inside of the TB, and there is not alot of difference in the diameter of the TB compared to the intake. TB is probably smaller!

If you want upgrade the TB to a bigger one, but i would recommend an after market plenum/manifold with 2 TBs not one.

All of this wont do much unless you open up the exhaust as well.

lol its like one of them didnt think about where the air was coming from, and the other didnt think about where it was going

Will3690 is correct - the turbo doesn't suck, it blows air into the engine creating a higher vacuum than the normally aspirated engine so air pressure can push air into the engine faster.

Nothing sucks, everything blows.
Basic physics 101 lol
... biology is an optional subject :shock:

Will3690 is correct - the turbo doesn't suck, it blows air into the engine creating a higher vacuum than the normally aspirated engine so air pressure can push air into the engine faster.

Nothing sucks, everything blows.
Basic physics 101 lol
... biology is an optional subject :shock:

you didnt read what i said did u? lol

when you breathe out hard would you not call it blowing? why do we say that and not, 'movement of the diaphram that creates a high pressure area in your lungs which forces the air out of your mouth' ?????

KISS - KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

KISS - KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!

doesnt seem like anyone here uses this

doesnt seem like anyone here uses this
I do, but I see where you are comming from!

Hjehhjehhjehhjehhjeheeeeeeee :rant:

I do think. When I'm sleeping. :D

Keep planning and designinig ppl. Like I say, if we never thought of different options, we would still be living in caves, and drive Commodores. :confused:

Over and out.

Bought some coke today, shouldn't take me to long to empty the bottle.

Got around to it today, before the filter I could not pick up a difference, after the filter though I could, however it was very little.

This was just with the car in neutral, do you think it would be different actually driving the car?

What makes anyone think the stock intake is restrictive?

have to agree,

i have the rpw plenum, so it holds more air ..sorta..

i figured that this would just make a CAI mod that much more worth it, i ended up taking my pod off and going back to stock and found the car felt much better.

only mod i think ill do to my induction is possibly having CAI piping leading down the front at a very low position ending at one of my front vents on the bar going all the way up into my stock intake... cant really be ass'd though wont really make a difference

Also, i think 2 pods will just cause more restriction. Imagine sucking though a filtered straw and then imagine sucking though 2....me thinks it will make it worse...

i honestly think stock is fine

Also, i think 2 pods will just cause more restriction. Imagine sucking though a filtered straw and then imagine sucking though 2....me thinks it will make it worse...

i honestly think stock is fine


So by that logic it's easier to suck water through one straw then two? Resistance decreases in parallel, increases in series.

So by that logic it's easier to suck water through one straw then two? Resistance decreases in parallel, increases in series.
Yeah way to blow it out of proportion.


How about, is it easier to suck water through 1000000000 than it is to suck water through 999999999?

sigh...

Even if you have 2 intake pipes, its still going to be the same amount of vacuum in the end cause you only have one throttle body. Like I said, if you're so caught up in this, take your air filter off and take it for a drive, there wont be any difference over a high flow filter.

So that means it's just a matter of weighing up the pro's and con's.

Cold air = good
Less restriction = good

Stock = managed air / colder
POD = less restriction

Surely someone can switch between the two and do a dyno run, unless someone already has and for some reason it hasnt been stickied as "CIA CIA CIA MUST READ, READ FIRST BEFORE EVEN SIGNING UP FOR FORUM ACCESS!".

I think the stock intake on 3rd gens is fine, it's in a high pressure area (front of bonnet), and just putting in a high flow filter would be the most cost effective option.

The second gen might be slightly better with a pod cause the intake is a little lacking, and a 1st gen would be heaps better cause the intake basically doesnt exist.

Or for those that want to go all out, a heat box would be your best option.

:doubt:

Bought some coke today, shouldn't take me to long to empty the bottle.

Why stop at a CAI for your car?

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/9274/030506elizabethancollarcm9.th.jpg (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=030506elizabethancollarcm9.jpg)


:P

Will3690 is correct - the turbo doesn't suck, it blows air into the engine creating a higher vacuum than the normally aspirated engine so air pressure can push air into the engine faster.

Are you serious?