Does anybody know if there is a difference in engines between an AWD sports 3.5 and normal FWD 3.5 and ralliart. Do they have different engines or its just extra diffs.

pretty sure the ralliart is a 3.8 litre - different engine, i dont think there is a differene between the awd in engine terms, but i think the awd has a bit more oopmh to it lol...

Does anybody know if there is a difference in engines between an AWD sports 3.5 and normal FWD 3.5 and ralliart. Do they have different engines or its just extra diffs.

Same engine with the sports. Ralliart has minor head work, different cams/springs and extractors also upped comp to 9.4:1. Same bottom end though all 3.5l 6G74's.

Standard TJ 3.5L is 150kw.
TJ/TL 2wd Sports/VRX is 163kw (same engine, but better exhaust).
TJ/TL AWD Sports is 159kw (same engine, but has modified Sports/VRX exhaust).
TJ Ralliart is 180kw (mod'd engine).

The AWD (tj's im talking here) has about 20 more torque and grips instantly to harness the power. Doesnt sound like much but the cars very light.
I felt like id slipped a disk in my spine first time i put the boot in and wasnt ready for it.
Feels nothing like a front wheel.

This would only apply to a awd though. The same engine in an Front wheel would lose the effect in wheel spin.

Standard TJ 3.5L is 150kw.
TJ/TL 2wd Sports/VRX is 163kw (same engine, but better exhaust).
TJ/TL AWD Sports is 159kw (same engine, but has modified Sports/VRX exhaust).
TJ Ralliart is 180kw (mod'd engine).

TJ SI was 150kw.
TJSII onwards are all base 155kw with minor tune etc
Sports/VRX from TJSI had 163kw due to exhaust and the minor tune (they had it since
TJSI)

Ralliart was also 3.5l but had diff cams head work, engine tune, extractors and sports
exhaust to bump the CR from 9:1 to 9.4:1 and power from 150 to 180 and torque from
317 to 333.

Not to mention the ralliarts power delivery is AWSOME...gets more torque at a lower RPM

pretty sure the ralliart is a 3.8 litre

:confused:

The ralliart had the 3.5 still, just different cams etc. The 380 has the 3.8.

The AWD (tj's im talking here) has about 20 more torque and grips instantly to harness the power. Doesnt sound like much but the cars very light.
I felt like id slipped a disk in my spine first time i put the boot in and wasnt ready for it.
Feels nothing like a front wheel.

This would only apply to a awd though. The same engine in an Front wheel would lose the effect in wheel spin.

I think you AWD buys love playing up the traction thing, and to be honest , its bull****. Once you're moving a FWD magna ****s all over the AWD, thanks to less weight, less drivetrain loss, and a manual box (when applicable).

I've had a brief drive of an AWD, compared to a stock manual FWD VRX/sports, it's an absolute sloth, ithe manual FWD magnas feel like they are in a completely different league. Except for from 0-20km/hr where the awd traction shines. And the extra weight makes the handling noticeably more boat-like than a FWD. While it should put power down out of corners much better, in reality it doesn't have enough to take advantage of the awd drivetrain properly.

In theory the AWD is good, in practice its needs a manual box and at least 180kw overcome the extra weight and drivetrain loss.

Im not sure what Razor is on about. The car does have great traction but is definitely not light and isnt particularly quick after 40-50k. The extra weight does improve the ride though and the steering is better. My only wish was that they came in manual in which case I may still have mine.

I think you AWD buys love playing up the traction thing, and to be honest , its bull****. Once you're moving a FWD magna ****s all over the AWD, thanks to less weight, less drivetrain loss, and a manual box (when applicable).




AAAARRGGGGHHHH!!

Duck for cover - the war is on!

What have you done, Chisholm? :bowrofl:

ra ra ra ra

put an awd against a fwd on a real track and let's see who dies first

Well, I'll go first! Brief drive, yeah whatever; my car is no race car,and it sure isn't lightweight, but if you can put your foot flat to the floor before you even begin to turn in to the corner and not have to hold back off the throttle until lining up the exit, then you will get through the corner faster. it might be auto, but it still has a good selection of 5 gears, and if it is not dry smooth bitumen, it'll get you everytime. And it's not just because of my vrx, you would be well surprised when my 10 year old Subaru Outback gets away from you in corners too. So whatever, I can use every meagre bit of power i have and I'm happy with that - I can always add power or strip weight, if I do go for power mods, I won't run into the driveline/ handling restrictions so quickly.
i could go on, but I'll wait for andrewd to say his bit.

before the s/c I would snot many on the bendy bits

after the s/c I can snot just about everything on the bendy bits

qtr mile runs are for girls.

What an amusing thread. lol

awd's suck


i cant even smoke them up :doubt:

but i can drive like a wanker in the wet and take corners much quicker than a fwd would ever dream of and still make the turn....


but in the dry with good driver in each no big deal...


my awd was very stiffly sprung from the factory and handled very tightly.... completly different to any other FWD magna exec i have driven... and there have been a few

take corners much quicker than a fwd would ever dream of and still make the turn....


The problem is awd = more weight = less corner speed. The advantage is in power-down. But the problem is a stock awd doesn't have the power to take advantage of the extra traction very well.

Your car on the other hand, is a different story, I'm sure you put your ~180awkw down much easier than a fwd, everythinge else being equal.

I think you AWD buys love playing up the traction thing, and to be honest , its bull****. Once you're moving a FWD magna ****s all over the AWD, thanks to less weight, less drivetrain loss, and a manual box (when applicable).

I've had a brief drive of an AWD, compared to a stock manual FWD VRX/sports, it's an absolute sloth, ithe manual FWD magnas feel like they are in a completely different league. Except for from 0-20km/hr where the awd traction shines. And the extra weight makes the handling noticeably more boat-like than a FWD. While it should put power down out of corners much better, in reality it doesn't have enough to take advantage of the awd drivetrain properly.

In theory the AWD is good, in practice its needs a manual box and at least 180kw overcome the extra weight and drivetrain loss.

Just cos a cars fast in a straght line, doesnt make it a fast car Chis.
Its about having controll of the car, not just booting it and shouting.

The weight gain in the Awds is centeralised too so it does not affect the cornering ability of the car. A higher KW is simply not needed. Further more, all 3 choice magnas (vrx, RA, AWD) are within 100kg of each other. Weight is not a valid argument.

As far as the engine goes though, it like the other magna engines, is a very competant engine with some more torque to push the more complicated train. That was my point, i didnt play any card thank you.

Labeling someone as an 'AWD buy' is inviting trouble, we are all on the same side here. I could pick on you cos you like a drunk Irish commedian.

Well I took your first post as claiming AWDs are quicker than fwd's in a straight line, so maybe we started on the wrong foot, I apologise if that's the case.

To wrap up what I was saying, IMO the fact is an auto AWD is much slower than manual FWD everywhere, except probably a series of very tight corners with no or very short straights in between. Not saying AWDs aren't good at their thing (e.g great in the wet), but to me it looked like you picked a debate you can't win, at least from what I interpreted.

Regarding weight, from memory with TJ's, the weight difference between a manual fwd and auto awd is ~150kg (remembering wrong?). Even 100kg is quite a bit of weight, if we are talking on-the-limit chassis behaviour/limits. Trust me, on the track I can easily feel the extra weight of a passenger, even if sitting in the back, as I tried once out of curiousity.

Anyway, it looks like I may have misunderstood your post, I apologise if I have. I'm not hear to start trouble with my fellow AMCers :) And I think AWD magnas are good at what they are supposed to do, but IMO in terms of performance lag behind the manual fwds, in most scenarios. Which is a real pity, I think the awd magna platform may have had so much to offer as a raliart/hero car, if MMAL invested in it.

Imagine if we got a manual AWD ralliart, with the 200kw the ralliart motor obviously would have been capable of from the factory, if not for MMAL R&D shenanigans. Brings a tear to my eye, we would have a high-profile magna hero car for the mass large-car market.

I may have taken it out of context also.
We are all good.

Id did'nt say it was faster or slow, only that it was subject to wheel spin.

Also, comparing the auto awd to a manual VRX for example, in my oppinion is like apples and oranges. Auto to auto though, where im coming from, I feel the awd is a superior car.

I think we have ilistrated the fact that no matter what the numbers of an engine say on paper, everyones oppinion will differ.
Choose an engine that will suit what you think you want and you will be happy with it.

I could argue this till im blue... but this isnt the place for it.

The problem is awd = more weight = less corner speed. The advantage is in power-down. But the problem is a stock awd doesn't have the power to take advantage of the extra traction very well.

Your car on the other hand, is a different story, I'm sure you put your ~180awkw down much easier than a fwd, everythinge else being equal.

you know when i first got the awd comming from a modded fwd manual hyundai which had great handling bugger all understeer and plenty of lift off oversteer :badgrin:

the magna might as well have been a tank, took ages to adjust to the size and weight, esp when i used to fang the lil hyundai down certain race track roads on the way to work...

but after i got used to it, the magna is what you get used to and size and weight you forget about, untill you jump in a lil hot hatch or something


and to the dude who reckons the awd goes like a rocket, mine stock was about as quick as a regular fwd (15.9 1/4 but on 20's loaded up) but even supercharged it feels slower to drive than a regular fwd by the feel of it, untill you look at the speedo, but bechause there is no rear suspension squat wheel spin or tyre screech, and no pulling on the steering wheel, they just dont feel quick...

and to the dude who reckons the awd goes like a rocket, mine stock was about as quick as a regular fwd (15.9 1/4 but on 20's loaded up) but even supercharged it feels slower to drive than a regular fwd by the feel of it, untill you look at the speedo, but bechause there is no rear suspension squat wheel spin or tyre screech, and no pulling on the steering wheel, they just dont feel quick...
I have to agree, My car feels sluggish as hell, i feel like im playing playstaion.
Im not gonna get into a boast about how i smoke this car and how i smoke that car but its deffinatley not slow... it just feels like an armchair.
Every now and again ill stamp down when im not ready for it and hurt my neck lol, but other than that i feels like... well it doesnt feel like anything to be honest.

even supercharged it feels slower to drive than a regular fwd by the feel of it, untill you look at the speedo, but bechause there is no rear suspension squat wheel spin or tyre screech, and no pulling on the steering wheel, they just dont feel quick...

And that's why it doesn't float my boat, it doesn't feel quick or fun, but slow and cumbersome. Which does make it a much better cruiser, if that's what you want.

I know my manual TJ sports, it isn't that fast, but jesus for what it is, it sure feels quick/fun. The squat in the suspension, the steering wheel tugging in your hands, the way it corners, short gearing that lets it slam through the lower gears. Mind you, mine is carrying a fair amount of mods I'm not done yet, so it's a bit unfair to directly compare it to the stock awd I drove.

Great post, Great debate guys. I've hear this debate before between two Mitsu salesmen who both were trying to sell me either car. In the end it all boils down to personal preference and that each car has its values.

i want my next car to be a black AWD TJ, then put a full ralli art kit on it, and eventually have it twin turbo, so it will have the grip, the handling and the now the POWER, because u see skylines and WRXs and silvias everywhere, but having a car like this is somthing different. and u will certinatly surprise some skyline owners too at the lights.
just my opinion anyway

i want my next car to be a black AWD TJ, then put a full ralli art kit on it, and eventually have it twin turbo, so it will have the grip, the handling and the now the POWER, because u see skylines and WRXs and silvias everywhere, but having a car like this is somthing different. and u will certinatly surprise some skyline owners too at the lights.
just my opinion anyway

Have you thought about the logistics of that? e.g you'll probably find the auto box won't last pushing much more than standard. To take advantage of the power and awd traction you're gonna want a higher-stall convertor, which is a bit of a pain in the **** for daily driving.

After all that, IMO your car is still is gonna handle crap cos its overweight, and not be much of a performance/driver's car cos its an auto. Seems a hell of alot of money and effort to spend on something that's still not gonna be outstandingly good at anything, besides TLGPS.

If you want performance, why not go a ralliart and turbo or supercharge that? A well setup fwd can put down power much better than you might think, and be quicker everywhere else cos its lighter and manual. Jason's effort of 1:14.5 around Wakefield on his very first outing with street tyre just shows how much potential the ralliarts with the right mods can have. For those of you unfamilar with wakefield, thats in the ballpark of your evo/wrx sti being driven by an average driver.

If your gonna make a race car out of it your gonna have to spend the money on and AWD sports, the boxes for these were custom made stronger and put up with more punishment. If you want a day to day strip races you will be fine but if your gonna make a track car of it you will need to spend alot of money and a AWD that could be put better else where.

read Chisholms

The AWD (tj's im talking here) has about 20 more torque and grips instantly to harness the power. Doesnt sound like much but the cars very light.


As far as the engine goes though, it like the other magna engines, is a very competant engine with some more torque to push the more complicated train. That was my point, i didnt play any card thank you.

Well thats actually not correct, the engine in a standard AWD produces less torque than the same engine in the FWD.

The only real difference between the two is the version of the 5 speed gearbox - its the same model, just a different revision - I believe there is a post somewhere on here that explains the difference. Anyway. the only AWD to trumph the FWD is the sports AWD version by a massive 1nm, but all torque ratings are roughly in the same ballpark, their not 20nm ahead of each other, with the exception of the ralliart.

For your reference the torque figures of the engines are as follows:

FWD 3.5L 316Nm @ 4000rpm-4000rpm
FWD Sports 3.5L 317Nm @ 4500rpm-4500rpm
FWD Wolliart 3.5L 333Nm @ 4000rpm-4000rpm
AWD 3.5L 310Nm @ 4000rpm-4000rpm
AWD Sports 3.5L 318Nm @ 4000rpm-4000rpm

What I think your meaning to say is that the AWD is likely to deliver the torque from the engine better with less wheelspin. The flipside of this is that an AWD drivetrain will generally cause more kw/nm loss than a fwd or a rwd car by having to provide power to all four wheels.

So the Figure upon review has been mis read, i will concede this.
But the fact still remains, with the exception of the Art with is a class unto its self, that by however small the figure is being one in this case over a VRX it is still more.

The KW loss of pushing the larger train is not necessarily a negtive on the output of the car. Though the over all power may be sacrificed, AWD is a more efficiant way of putting the power it does have from the engine to the ground. The top speed is more effected than the acceleration of the car.

Though my figures were incorrect, they were not completly false.

So whats the point of arguing over a practicaly identical engine?
If we were talking about why a V8 Vantage can assache an M6, it would be interesting.
This argument wont be solved till its put to the track.

The AWD are more than the sum of their parts. Not a speed demon for certain but untill you have pushed one to its limit through the bends then you simply havent driven one. As for the AWD trans isnt it sourced form the Euro delivered evo6 and VR4 gallant? Mine has stood up to a massive load of punishment and hasnt missed a beat. To this day it still suprises me.

The AWD are more than the sum of their parts. Not a speed demon for certain but untill you have pushed one to its limit through the bends then you simply havent driven one. As for the AWD trans isnt it sourced form the Euro delivered evo6 and VR4 gallant? Mine has stood up to a massive load of punishment and hasnt missed a beat. To this day it still suprises me.

The whole drivetrain came from the EVO VI.

The box was from a EVO VI GTA
Front diff from EVO VI RS
Centre and rear diff from EVO VI

Its amazing what the AWD does when cornering very fast. For all those that know, the
new bridge connecting Mawson Lakes in Adelaide to Salisbury Hwy, well heading into
Mawson Lakes, coming down the bridge and doing a shapr 90 degrees right bender from
the inside lane, get the rear stepping out a little (power oversteer) around it at 60km/hr
without going over to the next lane at all. You can definitely feel the progressive over
steer as it shifts torque to the outside rear wheel.

The reason I asked this is because in some time from now I was thinking of getting an AWD sports and getting it done up. I was thinking of putting ralliart engine and manual gearbox in it and putting a bigger turbo. I wanted this because of the traction, as we all know how much wheel spin we get on stock FWD, you can just imagine how much wheel spin you'd get when its done up. I wanted to do all this just to check how much power this engine can really put out so I could show those bastards who laugh at the magnas, what that car really is. Thanks

No worries, let us know how it goes bud.

lol

whoah woah woah....


do some reasearch first

ralliart engine..... hard to find!! and they arent turbo or very suitable for it either (that is if you wanna make big power and want it to last)

manual :nuts: no mauals around, can be done... i dont think you will see change form 5+K if you can find someone who can do it and find a box that will work...


Buy an EVO and save $$$$ and get the same if not far better end result

whoah woah woah....

Buy an EVO and save $$$$ and get the same if not far better end result
:stoopid:

Since we're all on the topic of AWD Vs FWD. I'm curious as to would it cost heaps to convert a FWD to a AWD?

How much body work needs to be done for the conversion? Or is it even possible at all?

Speaking on terms of conversion on the 3rd Gen Magnas/Veradas.

Since we're all on the topic of AWD Vs FWD. I'm curious as to would it cost heaps to convert a FWD to a AWD?

How much body work needs to be done for the conversion? Or is it even possible at all?

Speaking on terms of conversion on the 3rd Gen Magnas/Veradas.

not worthwhile

awd's have a different floorpan fire wall and steering rack...

conversion can be cheap though, sell your car buy and awd cost = few $k

Since we're all on the topic of AWD Vs FWD. I'm curious as to would it cost heaps to convert a FWD to a AWD?

How much body work needs to be done for the conversion? Or is it even possible at all?

Speaking on terms of conversion on the 3rd Gen Magnas/Veradas.
Too much money mate. Best way to do it is sell the magna then buy an EVO. Can get an EVO 6 or 7 for around $30k.

evos are pocket rockets there's no doubt there.

But a 2L motor with four people on board will show up the limitation of the engine capacity.

The AWD is at advantage in cubic inches and vehicle weight should you ever collide with another car. Put the same level of forced induction on a 3.5L engine and you will beat any 2L pocket rocket, but it will cost you.

I know I'd rather be in a modified AWD magna than an EVO if there was a collision.

Stock EVO = $60K maybe 220 kw and 350 nM

2005 AWD Magna with your own aftermarket forced induction etc = $, 270 kW, 500nM.

EVO comfort = 0

Magna comfort = 10

EVO cop bait factor = 10

Magna cop bait factor = -1

EVO wanker factor = 10

Magna wanker factor = 9.9

evos are pocket rockets there's no doubt there.

But a 2L motor with four people on board will show up the limitation of the engine capacity.

The AWD is at advantage in cubic inches and vehicle weight should you ever collide with another car. Put the same level of forced induction on a 3.5L engine and you will beat any 2L pocket rocket, but it will cost you.

I know I'd rather be in a modified AWD magna than an EVO if there was a collision.

Stock EVO = $60K maybe 220 kw and 350 nM

2005 AWD Magna with your own aftermarket forced induction etc = $, 270 kW, 500nM.

EVO comfort = 0

Magna comfort = 10

EVO cop bait factor = 10

Magna cop bait factor = -1

EVO wanker factor = 10

Magna wanker factor = 9.9
You clearly have NFI man. I won't even bother to explain... :nuts:

evos are pocket rockets there's no doubt there.

But a 2L motor with four people on board will show up the limitation of the engine capacity

Woh. Big call there. So things like torque and power don't matter? What car isn't noticeably slower with more people in the car? I know my TJ is a dog (more than usual) when I've got a car load of people.

Ever been in an EVO? Or have you just read the autospeed articles?

And how do you know it's even possible to reach 270kw in an AWD Magna?

EDIT: Disciple summed it up nicely, haha

without getting into an argument...

EVO will be king and out perform any day any time even stock... then modified well...

BUT

an evo will never be a Verada GTIV with leather cilmate satnav etc....

the verada awd will never be a race track hero, but it's not intended to be... think of the luxury smoothness and quietness of the rada...

now the guy who asked has a rada 2wd, in 4wd it would be the same nice car with the added traction and safety in the wet of awd... nothing else... he didnot ask about making his verada into a road/rally rocket lol

Woh. Big call there. So things like torque and power don't matter? What car isn't noticeably slower with more people in the car? I know my TJ is a dog (more than usual) when I've got a car load of people.

Ever been in an EVO? Or have you just read the autospeed articles?

And how do you know it's even possible to reach 270kw in an AWD Magna?

EDIT: Disciple summed it up nicely, haha

tzaboy would now be pulling an estimated 280kw at the flywheel in his magna by my reckoning. his is fwd.

its basically the same engine that's available in the awd magna plus or minus cams.

buy an awd magna for 20k

rebuild the engine, fit twin turbos or blower and maybe even manual conversion for another 15 to 20k.

the result is a LARGE awd car with already good brakes, suspension and creature comforts that could be tuned for a 12 second pass.

Or buy a very old evo (a great car) for 40k and spend 10k to wring a few more kw out of its already stressed tiny engine.

this is a magna forum and parochialism is allowed in good measure.

haven't driven a 2L kitchen appliance yet, but have built and expended modified cars from a v8 gemini to lancia powered lada to large pushrod v8s and sixes.

the magna is the lamest thing I have done and the most fun. So far 10K on the engine with plans for another 10k to get nearer to 300kw/550nM at the flywheel. just waiting for sprintex warranty to end.

also have bought a long 6G74 for future development works with objective of 400kw in street trim.

we should all pay homage to tzaboy andrewd mitsiman and other die hard magnaphiles who actually take the risk, spend their the money and share their wisdom freely.

the most satisfying video I have seen is that evil red whining magna flying past an xr6t on the track. The only thing that could top that would be seeing that same red thing fly past a 2L kitchen appliance, maybe even using its ponderous bulk to win the corner.

Again mate. You prove how little you know... I could pick your post to pieces but it's easier to laugh at it. You know nothing about EVO's or their tunability or their comfort.

10k on the 2l kitchen appliance will net around 300kwatw and run low 11's/high 10's.

Ok I'm bored so I'll have a go...

Please don't compare an EVO, which is basically a road registered race car with an AWD family sedan.


buy an awd magna for 20k

rebuild the engine, fit twin turbos or blower and maybe even manual conversion for another 15 to 20k.
Fitting twin turbos will be 15k straight up. Supercharger will be a cheaper option but ultimately power will be limited compared to a TT setup. I don't know how much it would cost to rebuild an engine but I'll go ahead and say about 3-5 grand? Plus your 15 grand for the TT setup, there's 18 grand.


the result is a LARGE awd car with already good brakes, suspension and creature comforts that could be tuned for a 12 second pass.
The brakes in an AWD with the sort of power you're talking about will be horribly undersized. You'd need to look at possibly 6 piston Alcon brakes. Additionally the suspension will be too soft and with the amount of unsprung mass weight in the AWD magna it would need to be changed to coilovers or something similar which will ruin your comfort. If after all that you can run a 12 second pass, congrats - you've just done the same time as a stock JDM EVO.


Or buy a very old evo (a great car) for 40k and spend 10k to wring a few more kw out of its already stressed tiny engine.

I'll give you the tip mate. I didn't spend that much money on my EVO and it's a 2004 model.
Here is just one example of many I found quickly on carsales. EVO VII (http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/MITSUBISHI/LANCER/details.aspx?Model=LANCER&__Nne=20&__N=4294964597%200%204294966896%204294929772+834+2 85+257&Make=MITSUBISHI&State=All%20States&silo=1003&state_id=0&distance=25&Cr=4&seot=0&__sid=113D435B4662&R=1575220&__Ns=pCar_Price_Decimal%7C0%7C%7CpCar_PrivateSpeci alFlag_Int32%7C1%7C%7CpCar_ImageCount_Int32%7C1&sort_type=2&trecs=20) $29k. 10k like I said will net around 300kwatw and is nowhere near the limit on its stressed, tiny engine.


Stock EVO = $60K maybe 220 kw and 350 nM
You are talking about a brand new ADM EVO 9, 206kw, 355Nm and still beats TZAboys and Black Beards cars down the quarter mile. Spend just $3k on that EVO 9 and it'll run mid 12's at close to 110mph.

Give me 20k on my EVO engine like you've spent, or are going to spend and I'll have a 10 second street weapon that's reliable as a swiss watch and comfortable too.

Don't get me wrong I love the Magna, I bought a Ralliart for gods sake and still love it. Jason and Mike etc have all my respect because without people like them we wouldn't be here having this discussion, but mate - never compare 2 cars like that.

I didn't even touch on the reliability of an AWD magna with that much power going through it either...

Again mate. You prove how little you know... I could pick your post to pieces but it's easier to laugh at it. You know nothing about EVO's or their tunability or their comfort.

10k on the 2l kitchen appliance will net around 300kwatw and run low 11's/high 10's.

I'm crushed.

please continue to share your valuable and vast experience.

we're all fascinated by tips on how to get the most out of evos, skylines, commodores etc...on this MAGNA forum.

Ok I'm bored so I'll have a go...

Please don't compare an EVO, which is basically a road registered race car with an AWD family sedan.


Fitting twin turbos will be 15k straight up. Supercharger will be a cheaper option but ultimately power will be limited compared to a TT setup. I don't know how much it would cost to rebuild an engine but I'll go ahead and say about 3-5 grand? Plus your 15 grand for the TT setup, there's 18 grand.


The brakes in an AWD with the sort of power you're talking about will be horribly undersized. You'd need to look at possibly 6 piston Alcon brakes. Additionally the suspension will be too soft and with the amount of unsprung mass weight in the AWD magna it would need to be changed to coilovers or something similar which will ruin your comfort. If after all that you can run a 12 second pass, congrats - you've just done the same time as a stock JDM EVO.



I'll give you the tip mate. I didn't spend that much money on my EVO and it's a 2004 model.
Here is just one example of many I found quickly on carsales. EVO VII (http://www.carsales.com.au/used-cars/private/MITSUBISHI/LANCER/details.aspx?Model=LANCER&__Nne=20&__N=4294964597%200%204294966896%204294929772+834+2 85+257&Make=MITSUBISHI&State=All%20States&silo=1003&state_id=0&distance=25&Cr=4&seot=0&__sid=113D435B4662&R=1575220&__Ns=pCar_Price_Decimal%7C0%7C%7CpCar_PrivateSpeci alFlag_Int32%7C1%7C%7CpCar_ImageCount_Int32%7C1&sort_type=2&trecs=20) $29k. 10k like I said will net around 300kwatw and is nowhere near the limit on its stressed, tiny engine.


You are talking about a brand new ADM EVO 9, 206kw, 355Nm and still beats TZAboys and Black Beards cars down the quarter mile. Spend just $3k on that EVO 9 and it'll run mid 12's at close to 110mph.

Give me 20k on my EVO engine like you've spent, or are going to spend and I'll have a 10 second street weapon that's reliable as a swiss watch and comfortable too.

Don't get me wrong I love the Magna, I bought a Ralliart for gods sake and still love it. Jason and Mike etc have all my respect because without people like them we wouldn't be here having this discussion, but mate - never compare 2 cars like that.

I didn't even touch on the reliability of an AWD magna with that much power going through it either...

now that I've put the kids to bed I can give you a little more attention, wife has gone out and I have no one to annoy.

that assertion about the robustness of the magna awd platform is interesting, we will see what breaks. isn't it derived from the evo gear in the first place?

if you want to get into the debate of power and quarter mile times and we both have endless budgets for engine development, the heavily modified 3.5L in a 1.5 tonne car will beat the heavily modified 2L in a 1.2 tonne car (forgive me if my estimate of vehicle mass is wrong.) ceterus paribus wrt gearing and traction.

And, believe it or not, the heavily modified LS2 in the 1800kg car will beat both. physics and thermodynamics are cruel things but I'm afraid the larger displacement engine must win.

Throw the V6,go for an evo 4g63 and manual box, tune it for fat torque off idle to carry the lardy magna and have it all. Well, it won't ever be an evo, but using a ( very ) well developed race powerplant has many advantages. And heaps of engine bay room for all the bits and pieces. Cost effective too, weight reductions, why haven't I done this already?
Anyway, we are all way jealous of Disciple, good on him for putting his $ where his desire is; an evo has over 10 years of factory race development, no expense spared, there are not many cars anywhere that will come near an evo stock, and maybe none mod for mod. LS2? how heavily modified? Will it idle in traffic with the a/c on? There are Lamborghinis with larger displacement that will not beat an evo. Power to weight is a major consideration.

blah blah blah lol


why bother modding though, i was looking at car sales, and for 38K you can buy an 8 second streetcar!!!!! :shock: rotor

36k gets you 9's OMG rotor

45K gets you a 10sec GTR!

13K gets you a 10sec bike!

and i have seen heaps more genuine 10sec TT 5.9L valiant 20K :P and it was a daily driver that looked stock or if holdens are your thing there is a torana on ebay lol


i'd keep your ralliart as a daily sell the evo and buy the 8sec car :P

why bother modding though, i was looking at car sales, and for 38K you can buy an 8 second streetcar!!!!! :shock: rotor

36k gets you 9's OMG rotor

45K gets you a 10sec GTR!

13K gets you a 10sec bike!

and i have seen heaps more genuine 10sec TT 5.9L valiant 20K :P and it was a daily driver that looked stock or if holdens are your thing there is a torana on ebay lol


i'd keep your ralliart as a daily sell the evo and buy the 8sec car :P
Andrewd, the catalyst to this discussion was tbb commenting on how an AWD magna will be as easily tuneable as an EVO, and that EVOs have "tiny stressed engines" that aren't capable of much power. We all know you can go buy a datsun 120b and put a 13b chook cooker in it and run 9's for about 20k, but no one's talking about that.


that assertion about the robustness of the magna awd platform is interesting, we will see what breaks. isn't it derived from the evo gear in the first place?

if you want to get into the debate of power and quarter mile times and we both have endless budgets for engine development, the heavily modified 3.5L in a 1.5 tonne car will beat the heavily modified 2L in a 1.2 tonne car (forgive me if my estimate of vehicle mass is wrong.) ceterus paribus wrt gearing and traction.

And, believe it or not, the heavily modified LS2 in the 1800kg car will beat both. physics and thermodynamics are cruel things but I'm afraid the larger displacement engine must win.
I believe the AWD drivetrain and gearbox are lifted from the EVO 7.5 GTA (tiptronic) which certainly have their limitations unlike the manual boxes from the EVOs, especially the 5 speed which is good for well over 300kwatw.

No one is talking about endless money for engine development, I merely pointed out your complete lack of knowledge about something to which you were speaking strongly about. You need to know what you're talking about before you go rambling on about EVOs mate.

Why the hell are we talking about an LS2?? LS2 is easily modified too, just like the LS1, RB26, 2JZ etc etc. If you can't appreciate the 4G63 for what it is then that's your loss. I love my Ralliart and my EVO, and appreciate all cars for what they are.

Andrewd, the catalyst to this discussion was tbb commenting on how an AWD magna will be as easily tuneable as an EVO, and that EVOs have "tiny stressed engines" that aren't capable of much power. We all know you can go buy a datsun 120b and put a 13b chook cooker in it and run 9's for about 20k, but no one's talking about that.


I believe the AWD drivetrain and gearbox are lifted from the EVO 7.5 GTA (tiptronic) which certainly have their limitations unlike the manual boxes from the EVOs, especially the 5 speed which is good for well over 300kwatw.

No one is talking about endless money for engine development, I merely pointed out your complete lack of knowledge about something to which you were speaking strongly about. You need to know what you're talking about before you go rambling on about EVOs mate.

Why the hell are we talking about an LS2?? LS2 is easily modified too, just like the LS1, RB26, 2JZ etc etc. If you can't appreciate the 4G63 for what it is then that's your loss. I love my Ralliart and my EVO, and appreciate all cars for what they are.

lack of knowledge hey? you rattle off component numbers as though that's a substitue for experience.

good for you if mummy bought you an evo and a ralliart. I've been modding cars for several decades now, and realise there is more to life than cars. But again this is a MAGNA forum.

you want to tell me how great evos are - post it on MOGWA. As for your sacred cow rhetoric where I think you said "how dare you compare" well I dare.

honestly, you hold your evo in the same esteem as an idol or false god. this is a Magna forum and these are inanimate objects.

within your other diatribe you exposed your paucity of knowledge about magnas on this magna forum.

you don't think I can twin turbo a 6G74 for 15 to 20k? pfft.

you think supercharging is "probably less" ?. Well from EXPERIENCE, I've spent around 10K getting my magna done, and its far from optimum. Another 10K,
20K, 50K whatever! Ill probably still be developing the 6G74 when you've finished third year.

I could just a easily fork out a few more sheckles for a prestige marque with the Ferrari or Porsche badge, and price the performance snobs like you out of the scene altogether. But I did the magna because it is lame, because it is inconspicuous, because it is expendable, and it has the lowest knob-head factor.

Hey guys,

Leave it there.

We all respect you both as long term members.

There are valid arguments you've both put up.

But look at the original OP; this has gone right off.

Let's not get to the point where personal flaming comes in.

And don't be women; no last word :D !

Dude, lol. You'll find out anyway, tbb. Good luck with your car. Yes this has gone off topic. Sorry, I was just trying to set some things straight... some still need to be but we'll leave it at that. Ignorance is bliss.

Tbb... Please stop posting.

Comparing awd turbo to evo is somewhat silly (as far as the racetrack). But not when compared to xr6t, or v8's. Then the money spent could actually show gains in my opinion.
As for a heavy Mitsubishi with awd and turbos ,the 3000GT was a good example.
Cars are poor investments anyways financially so one might as well blow it on something original. Just my 0.02c.

Tbb... Please stop posting.


next post will be something useful for MAGNA owners on this MAGNA forum.

next post will be something useful for MAGNA owners on this MAGNA forum.
By that train of thought all non Ford orientated posts should be deleted and frowned upon on fordforums.com.au and all non LS1 talk should be deleted on ls1.com.au.

Get a grip mate.

Disciple is clearly more knowledgeable than tbb! Better english too! lol

Tbb, you speak about more to life than cars? Then you speak about spending thousands and thousands of dollars modifiying cars. Not running a car (which would be a practical life excercise), but modifiying...


*clap* *clap*

Well done tbb, well done mate.

Disciple is clearly more knowledgeable than tbb! Better english too! lol

Tbb, you speak about more to life than cars? Then you speak about spending thousands and thousands of dollars modifiying cars. Not running a car (which would be a practical life excercise), but modifiying...


*clap* *clap*

Well done tbb, well done mate.

that's right, there is more to life than cars. That's why fewer than 10 per centum of my income and maybe 2 per cent of my time is ever allocated towards these items

I'm certain you educated fellows with myriad life experience and extensive report writing skills can teach me how to better frame my narrative on your forum.

without a doubt you are better looking, smarter, have more degrees, are richer, have bigger dicks and prettier partners than I could ever aspire to. you have won bathurst five times, are world boxing champion in at least three weight divisions, build one engine a night in front of the television whilst sudying towards a pHD in mechanical engineering.

very impressive indeed, and all achieved by the age of 25.

I am humbled before thee, thou hast reminded me of my mediocrity and mortality.

Ill just have to step aside and tender my resignation from all board and committee positions.

and whenever one of you step out of line and attack the poster on the grounds of knowledge deficit, thereby playing the man and not the ball, well we had all better just go silent and permit this phenomana of e-bullying to perpetuate.

grow up and stuff your evo up your bum.

:bowrofl:

Biggest dummy spit ever.

Too much money mate. Best way to do it is sell the magna then buy an EVO. Can get an EVO 6 or 7 for around $30k.

Yeah I thought it'll be too much trouble to convert a 3rd Gen FWD to a AWD.

Mmmmmmm EVOoooo.....

Cant wait for EVO-X to come out next year.

i have to laugh... you can buy a VR4 and have 210kw, AWD and a manual box, with 2 turboes hanging off the engine... only difference is engine size, and turbo size and tuning...

but thats $20k, and tbb is saying to convert a magna to all that, as if such a thing never existed. yeah, there was never a mitsubishi built family sedan that was likened to being the evo's big brother... :nuts:

buy a very nice VR4 manual for $20k, and pour $10k worth of work into it (Teins, brembos, better exhaust, bigger turboes)... and then decimate those v8s... but start with that, do not start with a magna unless u have money to burn... u wont prove a point around here developing a TT, AWD, manual family sedan... coz mate.... its been done before...

so there u go... basically $20k magna plus $20-$30k in mods, to get a factory built $20k car...




can someone tell me please where the logic is in that one?

:gtfo: :gtfo:

grow up and stuff your evo up your bum.

Hypocrite much?

:bowrofl:

I'm certain you educated fellows with myriad life experience and extensive report writing skills can teach me how to better frame my narrative on your forum.

without a doubt you are better looking, smarter, have more degrees, are richer, have bigger dicks and prettier partners than I could ever aspire to. you have won bathurst five times, are world boxing champion in at least three weight divisions, build one engine a night in front of the television whilst sudying towards a pHD in mechanical engineering.

very impressive indeed, and all achieved by the age of 25.

21, actually :)


grow up and stuff your evo up your bum.

Let's not forget what the "stressed" "tiny" engine can do without it being limited by the markets.

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/news_reports/mitsubishi-evo-8-mr-fq400.htm

0-100 in 3.5 seconds is supercar quick.


EVO ftw

All this talk of TT AWD's has made me wonder whatever happened to Tbutcher. Does anyone know?

And for gods sake, cant we all just get along?

Ok, I have read through all of this post and am still at a loss.

How much would it cost, if it can be done, to convert a 3.5l FWD to a 3.5l AWD?

I am talking very rough ballpark figures here. I am also talking about what would need to be removed and replaced. The feasability and practicality. Not just people saying "don't do it". I am not saying what I am doing is anything fantastic or unique or great, but it is what I want to do.

I own a Ralliart Magna #437 with a triptronic Automatic. I have no intention of selling it and buying an AWD magna and doing it up or in buying an EVO and doing it up or converting it to manual. I am not trying to do quarter miles or have something better than someone else. If other cars go past me, great, I am happy for them. I have a great car that I would like to improve it's safety and handling, dry or wet, idle or cruising. If it costs more than the car, so be it, but if I don't know, how can I make that decision?

So far I understand that the floorpan and firewall need changing, ok. I assume that I would also need the buy a diff, axle, driveshaft. I am assuming that I would need to change/exchange my FWD 5-speed auto for an AWD 5-speed auto. If anyone can help me with the parts, great. Would I need to do anything about the brakes/exhaust? I already have stock ralliart brakes and exhaust.

Now I also understand that the AWD will have slightly higher losses feeding all four wheels. Well if the 180kW/333Nm Ralliart motor has trouble pushing, then I can consider a Sprintex supercharger (I also read the report about going to 10.5 boost), sounds interesting.

I am after reliability and performance and comfort. Most importantly, in my opinion, nothing looks as good as the TJ series magnas.

dude sell the ralliart!

buy an awd and make it look like the ralliart problem solved!

to legally convert a 2wd to Awd magna will cost you $30K

re engineer vehicle, most likley it will be treated as an icv and the enginering costs will be massive!

do it the way i mentioned and it wont cost you much! sell the ralliart 20k buy my magna 10k put on ralliart kit and respray 5k suspension coilovers adj everything etc... 5k = $0 cost so far

then engine mods as extreme as you like, i'd just go cams headwork and intake exh mods with aftermarket tune 3-4K Happy days

you can get your dream car for under 10K

but Seriously have you though seriously about cuttin up a car and trying to track down the really expensive driveline, then welding the bits of car back together :nuts:


as stupid as your question is it can quite easily be done to other cars though, i have seen AWD hyundai excel's using lancer gear and lancer coupes converted to awd as well as mirages..

and coming from someone who has owned possibly the most powerful AWD magna out there, honestly, it's just like driving a stock one, just the speedo needle moves a lot faster.... FWD at least keeps things interesting

I have no intention of selling the Ralliart. I only bought it 3 weeks ago. Also, it is a limited build number, not something to let go of. If I cannot do/find the AWD conversion then I will keep it with the FWD and still maybe supercharge it.

Now I would be doing the conversion with all stock original mitsubishi components so I do not see how an engineer could be involved. I am probably wrong. The mitubishi came out with AWD as standard on some magnas. I also plan to have mitsubishi do the work or someone they refer me to.

I have no intention of selling the Ralliart. I only bought it 3 weeks ago. Also, it is a limited build number, not something to let go of. If I cannot do/find the AWD conversion then I will keep it with the FWD and still maybe supercharge it.

Now I would be doing the conversion with all stock original mitsubishi components so I do not see how an engineer could be involved. I am probably wrong. The mitubishi came out with AWD as standard on some magnas. I also plan to have mitsubishi do the work or someone they refer me to.

The firewall is different, the floor pan is different, the drive shaft tunnel is different (AWD
have nice fat square ones), the transmission is different (it comes from the EVO VI GTAs,
along with the centre, rear and front differentials). Fuel tank is different (split tank vs one
tank). Exhaust header is different and exhaust pipe route to the back is different (AWD has
pipe passing under the rear diff vs FWD has pipe going over the rear axel), the rear
suspension setup is different (AWDs uses thicker arms). There are a lot more differences but the above are the main structural differences.

It may be genuine Mitsu parts, but it is only genuine if replacing onto cars of same model
otherwise, it needs engineering. The floor pan was strengthened to handle the extra
weight and the fact that the rear wheels pushing.

At the end of it, what remains of your ralliart is the outer shell, brakes, wheels, engine and
interior (except the rear floor space where the AWDs have a wider hump for the drive shaft
and exhaust pipe). Also, new drive shafts and tail shafts needs fitted.

Christ man. If you're gonna buy all genuine Mitsubishi stuff and have Mitsubishi do it (prodiving they would even do which I don't think they would) If you're including the whole changing from FWD to AWD, plus supercharger, the whole works. It would need to be engineered because the car is FWD and you're changing it to AWD. I'm not sure on the legalities but just because you're using "standard Mitsubishi parts" won't mean it won't need to be engineered.

Mate I'd say you wouldn't get much change out of $50k.

just supercharge the ralliart!!


but you'll get maybe a high 13 if your lucky....

to go a lil bit quicker will cost tons, cos you have to junk the ecu and find pistons that wont break!

then up the boost this and that mods and you'll easily see 230fwkw with mountains of torque

your in WA so go see sprintex for s/c's or rpw for turbos...

or sell and do what disciple has done, next step from ralliart is EVO performance wise at least

So far so good, I am getting the kind of feedback I need to settle this in my head. Thanks vlad, andrewd.

Ok, have just gotten off the phone with Mitsubishi and there was no Ralliart Magnas produced with AWD, apparently they were all FWD. So, that was my main question (actually). I had heard of one but wasn't sure if it was a genuine Ralliart or faker Ralliart. If they didn't come with AWD then it couldn't be done. But if they had come with AWD then I wanted to do it.

I may have been wrong about the engineer certificate, but I said that I probably was wrong. But thanks for the cost estimate anyway Disciple.

Looks like I am left with the Supercharger or Turbo options. Plus Royal Purple fluids, Brisk spark plugs, FilterMags, K&N Air and Oil filters, Hiclone, Magnets, Narva Artic Blue head/park lights, Narva Phantom indicator lights, etc.....

Now if I could just sort out why my interior light won't work! (Fuse and globe is fine).

So far so good, I am getting the kind of feedback I need to settle this in my head. Thanks vlad, andrewd.

Ok, have just gotten off the phone with Mitsubishi and there was no Ralliart Magnas produced with AWD, apparently they were all FWD. So, that was my main question (actually). I had heard of one but wasn't sure if it was a genuine Ralliart or faker Ralliart. If they didn't come with AWD then it couldn't be done. But if they had come with AWD then I wanted to do it.

I may have been wrong about the engineer certificate, but I said that I probably was wrong. But thanks for the cost estimate anyway Disciple.

Looks like I am left with the Supercharger or Turbo options. Plus Royal Purple fluids, Brisk spark plugs, FilterMags, K&N Air and Oil filters, Hiclone, Magnets, Narva Artic Blue head/park lights, Narva Phantom indicator lights, etc.....

Now if I could just sort out why my interior light won't work! (Fuse and globe is fine).

There is a one only AWD with a Ralliart engine - Derry on here has it. He bought a Ralliart engine and had in put into a new TL/TW VR-X AWD (worked for mitsubishi). I think he may have had engine computer issues though. As far as an AWD conversion is concerned, its been already outlined by the guys above, but the AWD is really too different under the skin to convert. The dyes for stamping out the floorplan were moved to Australia at the start of the program, and floorplans exported to Japan for the AWD JDM models. JDM models are different from ours too, smaller engines, A arm suspension (ours had standard magna struts), and some crossmember differences at the front (outsourced to ROH to design). Its easier to transpant your ralliart engine into an AWD. As far as a manual conversion for AWD's - this has been discussed at length here. No manual AWD's have ever 'officially' existed in japan or australia. There were some testbeds in australia, with custom gear, but were never released, and even some of the extremely knowledgeable people on here who worked for mitsubishi at the time don't know how it was done exactly. So, unless you have $$$$ to waste, don't go there
Sprintex may have some superchargers left, but they have been EOL'd, and disendorsed as a sponsor for various reasons, most importantly - they no longer make the kits. Fair enough, no magnas have been made for several years. About the headlight bulbs - read Heathyoung's excellent FAQ on lighting. We've got some good knowledgeable people on here that make life easier for the rest of us

from what i hear, Sprintex are clearing the rest of their s/cs for about $5k including an unlocked ecu, plus being in Perth u get the best service rather than through a dealer.

PM 'Phil' and ask about his experiences... his car aint driven lightly yet its holding up fine. Meet up with him on a thursday nite social or something and take it for a spin, his is a s/c vrx (manual), so would be very similar to how yours will end up.

just response to the sprintex thing, they dont make the kit anymore, apparently there are a few kits left, but check the for sale section ;)

but they still do make the s/c and still supply all parts and service and rebuilds etc...

prices are reasonable too

just response to the sprintex thing, they dont make the kit anymore, apparently there are a few kits left, but check the for sale section ;)

but they still do make the s/c and still supply all parts and service and rebuilds etc...

prices are reasonable too

read above andy :P

I could pick on you cos you like a drunk Irish commedian.

he may be drunk and he may be irish but he is extremely funny, black books is the best

Look you can convert a FWD to AWD, but you could spend much less money on it in FWD form, to go quicker.

For the cost of just converting to AWD, you probably could have done serious work to the motor in a FWD, with money leftover to go towards good brakes, suspension etc.

Obviously being magna enthusiasts, we are used to sacrificing a bit of bang-for-buck when it comes to mods. But there's a difference between being original/different, and just being plain stupid. As said, basically EVERYTHING has to be swapped, it's not just a matter of whacking in a gearbox, and rear drive train.

Unless you have the skills/experence/connections to do it yourself and get parts cheaply, it's going to cost an absolute fortune.

The bottom line is the magna in AWD just isn't that good, if you are trying to make it into a performance car. It's front-heavy weight distribution is great for FWD when correctly set-up, but fundamentally wrong for making an AWD go fast.

I'm sick of heating about the AWD hype, very few people seem to have any idea just how good (relatively) a properly setup FWD magna can be. Of course if your main goal is to go fast at TLGPs or the dragstrip, FWD is inherantly flawed for getting off the line.

Our magnas just don't make good performance cars in AWD form, even with lots of money spent. The weight distribution is crap for AWD, and the chassis becomes floppy with the extra weight of the AWD drivetrain.

And tbb, please stop shooting your mouth off. I've had a good read of what you've been saying, and frankly much of it is just pure misguided speculation, with nothing solid to back it up.

The bottom line is yes you certainly can make BIG power with with the 6g74, but it's costly. Apart from the cost of turbos and the all the associated bits, you're gonna need a full rebuild with strengthened internals, and the factory heads won't flow well enough.

And you still aint gonna go THAT fast with it in a magna chassis.

If you intend to do build a serious magna, that would be great to see. But you need to do your research and have realistic expectations. Cut the bull**** mate, you aren't fooling anyone. Settle down and we can have constructive discussions.

thats okay, tbb is gone bye bye i dun think his commin back

The bottom line is the magna in AWD just isn't that good, if you are trying to make it into a performance car. It's front-heavy weight distribution is great for FWD when correctly set-up, but fundamentally wrong for making an AWD go fast.

I'm sick of heating about the AWD hype, very few people seem to have any idea just how good (relatively) a properly setup FWD magna can be. Of course if your main goal is to go fast at TLGPs or the dragstrip, FWD is inherantly flawed for getting off the line.

Our magnas just don't make good performance cars in AWD form, even with lots of money spent. The weight distribution is crap for AWD, and the chassis becomes floppy with the extra weight of the AWD drivetrain.

I personally think AWD's are fantastic daily driver cars, excellent for long haul driving on bad roads in bad conditions - I don't think thats hype. I'm one of those crazy people that takes my car up goat tracks, snow, mud etc, and it is a very neural handling nice car to drive. It was never designed as a spots car - some would say mitsubishi never really marketed as anything focused anyway, probably why so few were sold.
I agree that they are not race cars and the points you make are valid. A manual FWD magna will nail an AWD anyday. Few people every bought Magnas new as sports cars, but yourself and a few other people on here have made some pretty nice mods to make it possible. Great for the rest of us too - we get to learn from your hard work/dosh spent what works, and what doesn't. Keep up the good work :thumbsup:

then I can consider a Sprintex supercharger (I also read the report about going to 10.5 boost), sounds interesting.



If you supercharge and want a custom tune dont use the perfect power ecu, mine, TZABOY'S and andrew's blew up using that thing.

If you want 10.5psi get forged pistons and water/meth injection added at the same time and a different computer or wait for the tuning software for magna's to come out soon.

If you supercharge and want a custom tune dont use the perfect power ecu, mine, TZABOY'S and andrew's blew up using that thing.

Wouldn't that have more to do with the fact you guys where cramming allot of hot air into otherwise stock engines then the ECU it's self?

Without intercooling you can only run so much boost safelly. I know TRD where having similar problems with the TRD Aurion. High inlet temps.

I think thats why the stock sprintex tunes where so rich, to bring combustion chamber temps down.

If you supercharge and want a custom tune dont use the perfect power ecu, mine, TZABOY'S and andrew's blew up using that thing.

If you want 10.5psi get forged pistons and water/meth injection added at the same time and a different computer or wait for the tuning software for magna's to come out soon.

whats funny is how no one has listened to what mitsiman had said!

he posted that he's popped several engines using piggyback computers! so even swapping the smt6 for a interceptor wont make jack **** difference.... also the 3 of us were tuned to make much more power than anyone elses setup.... the smt6 was fine for the months of flogging in 40deg heat my car copped before upgrading to the custom tune

the key thing here is to toss the piggyback and go full replacment, on manuals this is easy but not on autos, although you can get a full replacmet and just use the facory ecu to operate the trans and you get the picture......


thats what i was getting but microtech took too long and i said stuff it and just got the smt6, would have had to wait another 2 months the way microtech was going, although by now it shoud be ready to go!

Wouldn't that have more to do with the fact you guys where cramming allot of hot air into otherwise stock engines then the ECU it's self?

Without intercooling you can only run so much boost safelly. I know TRD where having similar problems with the TRD Aurion. High inlet temps.

I think thats why the stock sprintex tunes where so rich, to bring combustion chamber temps down.

nope the discharge temps arent as high as from a crappy eaton s/c it looks like fuel distrobution as it's the same 2 cyl in everyones car lol


and note, even running on 4cyl and chunks missing off my screws i managed to drag off a few wankers in commos lol... and when it was on 5cyl it wasnt any slower :confused:

Thanks tjawd. A very detailed description of why I shouldn't do it. I am glad for the information. As I said before if NO AWD TJ Ralliarts were produced then I wasn't interested. I was getting mixed info about whether people had or had not seen an AWD Ralliart.

Thanks Chisholm for the info, as I am staying FWD now anyway, it is good to know that it would have been the right choice performance wise. Although I was not trying to go quicker or to produce a performance vehicle. If that was the case I probably would have started with a performance vehicle instead of a cruiser. I admit the Ralliart is the most performance of the cruisers, but it actually fell into my lap when I wrote my other car off. My idea for AWD was purely to stick to the road for safety reasons not acceleration.

Now I must come back to Sports comments as I am still very interested in doing the Sprintex supercharger. So, if I do not want to add forged piston or water/meth injection what would you suggest as the appropriate boost? The standard 7.3 (read from another thread)? Also what should I do with the spark plugs? I have heard that when you supercharge you need to go cool by one or two temperature ratings.

With the computer, is there any problems with staying with the stock Ralliart ECU? I would really like to change as little mechanically/electrically as possible. The idea of swapping out the intake manifold for a supercharger is just more pro than con and cannot be passed up. What I would like to do, if possible, is have the supercharger installed and that is it. Keep everything else Ralliart. The Ralliart ECU is already programmed for the modified heads/cams of the Ralliart motor and all the supercharger is going to do is push more air in at a higher compression ratio. So shouldn't the Ralliart air mass flow sensor recognise that more air is going in and dose more fuel as required? Compensated for by the results of the oxygen sensor in the exhaust? Would I need to change the ECU? Or could I function with the stock Ralliart ECU? Probably with lesser gains compared to a programmable ECU? Noting that I would also like to take the opportunity while the intake manifold is off to change out the rear bank of spark plugs for BRISK LGS Spark Plugs (http://www.briskusa.com/products.htm#premium) and replace the ingnition leads with 10mm Top Gun.

Your thoughts please.

Just to restart the AWD vs FWD


All the track racing Magnas I have seen have been FWD, but the Magnas in the Australian Rally Championship a few years ago were auto AWDs (im pretty sure they won the championships of production cars against the Falcadores). So they both obviosly have their advantages and disadvantages.

the kit requires and additional piggyback ecu to controll the timing and extra injector and various things which the factory ecu cant, the plug specs are available from sprintex...

dont get topgun leads they are gay and do nothing, just stick with std ones...

and the boost is prettymuch 6.5psi dependant on mods, if you had a stock magna with no extractors and tiny exhaust you may see 7psi

but all the kits that everyone has have the same pulley = same boost you can get a smaller pulley which gave TZA 10.5psi and then big bang too


stick with the kit in stock form tuned and fitted by sprintex and you'll have a great setup with approx 180kw atw in manual form in a ralliart on a safe and relaible tune.. and the car will preform as a standard car will in hot/cold weather and under all conditions it will be driveable and the only indication to it being supercharged will be the extra power and noise


but if your going to bother modifying the kit to make more ower, i'd advise you to go to a turbo set up! in the long run your going to be better off

Thanks tjawd. A very detailed description of why I shouldn't do it. I am glad for the information. As I said before if NO AWD TJ Ralliarts were produced then I wasn't interested. I was getting mixed info about whether people had or had not seen an AWD Ralliart.

Thanks Chisholm for the info, as I am staying FWD now anyway, it is good to know that it would have been the right choice performance wise. Although I was not trying to go quicker or to produce a performance vehicle. If that was the case I probably would have started with a performance vehicle instead of a cruiser. I admit the Ralliart is the most performance of the cruisers, but it actually fell into my lap when I wrote my other car off. My idea for AWD was purely to stick to the road for safety reasons not acceleration.

Now I must come back to Sports comments as I am still very interested in doing the Sprintex supercharger. So, if I do not want to add forged piston or water/meth injection what would you suggest as the appropriate boost? The standard 7.3 (read from another thread)? Also what should I do with the spark plugs? I have heard that when you supercharge you need to go cool by one or two temperature ratings.

With the computer, is there any problems with staying with the stock Ralliart ECU? I would really like to change as little mechanically/electrically as possible. The idea of swapping out the intake manifold for a supercharger is just more pro than con and cannot be passed up. What I would like to do, if possible, is have the supercharger installed and that is it. Keep everything else Ralliart. The Ralliart ECU is already programmed for the modified heads/cams of the Ralliart motor and all the supercharger is going to do is push more air in at a higher compression ratio. So shouldn't the Ralliart air mass flow sensor recognise that more air is going in and dose more fuel as required? Compensated for by the results of the oxygen sensor in the exhaust? Would I need to change the ECU? Or could I function with the stock Ralliart ECU? Probably with lesser gains compared to a programmable ECU? Noting that I would also like to take the opportunity while the intake manifold is off to change out the rear bank of spark plugs for BRISK LGS Spark Plugs (http://www.briskusa.com/products.htm#premium) and replace the ingnition leads with 10mm Top Gun.

Your thoughts please.

The computer that comes with the sprintex kit is an interceptor with the ability to control a 7th injector. You still use the factory computer that came with the car, the interceptor just lies to it. Tuners dont like interceptors much (mine doesnt anyway) due to that fact and they become unreliable.

If you wait a few months an edit software will be avaliable to tune our factory computers directly, no need for other computers, no extra wiring and what not.

Pretty much, add water/meth injection to be safe and use the sprintex tune for the first year (if bought new) so you keep the warrenty.

My boost starts off at 6psi at 2000rpm then at red line it's at 8psi, so call it 7psi.

The factory paramaters on the ecu wont allow for the extra air flow comming in, it will run lean and creat a mess inside the engine.

Sparkplug wise I used normal sparkplugs, only a few days ago did i learn that the kits came with other sparkplugs, different temp raiting I think.

My plan is 6 big injectors, the 7th injector will be the water/meth injector and I will be using the little interceptor for a bit longer as I am waiting for that tuning software to come out, cause what's better than the factory ecu?

Thanks, andrewd and Sports. If it is not too much trouble, can you have a look at the brisk spark plugs and see what you think?

So far the information I have is, have the Sprintex supercharger installed as is from Sprintex with stock Ralliart ingnition leads and (hopefully) brisk spark plugs.

Now remembering this is a Ralliart Motor so I am already putting out 180kW and 333Nm and it is Sports Auto. It also comes with SS custom headers and Exhaust (By Mitsubishi). The head/cams are also modified (By Mitsubishi) 9.4:1 compression ratio. So, would I be able to reliably up the boost without having to have the engine opened up and modified? Also I do not want to add water/meth injectors or intercoolers, too complicated already, except the Transmission cooler that Sprintex recommends. I do not want to do any damage to the motor or shorten it's life drastically and it is a daily driver, BUT that said I do want to get the most out of the supercharger without having to add anymore than the Sprintex kit (and plugs).

then stay at the std boost level with the std sprintex tune and you'll be OK!

modify it to make more power and your going to need to do heaps..

after you get the kit fitted by sprintex, it will be just as reliable as a std car, the kit is set up for reliability, being auto with std kit and tune you should see 160kwatw

and with that perfrmance level you'll have years of trouble free motoring....

my car was fine on the sprintex tune 148kw atw (but im 4wd) then i modified it to 175kw atw with retune and it was capable of 190kwatw but as mentiones water injection and a decent computer are needed.... but if your happy stock the kit is everything you need


just get the trans cooler! i upgraded the fuel pump, but it's not necessary! other than that sprintex supplu the new plugs and oil and it happu days, then in 10k just change the oil and it like a regular car with the only additional requirments is to change the blower belt at 50k i think..

also in an auto ralliart you should, depending on conditions pull off a low 14 1/4 the s/c'd vrx here in vic and f/s atm did a 14.45 std kit with no other mods just 2.5exh and not even extractors... and thats with no traction.... the ralliart has the advantave of a handful of kw and nm more than the VRX so lucky day and its low/flat 14's easy.... but it the ingear and kickdown acceleration that will blow your mind, nail it at 60 and watch the needle move faster than it does from rest now! ohh and the sound...

nope the discharge temps arent as high as from a crappy eaton s/c it looks like fuel distrobution as it's the same 2 cyl in everyones car lol

The discharge temps are pretty high (I'd say around 80 Degrees C), the two cylinders that didn't get enough fuel obviouslly leaned out. Thats why Sprintex has a relativlly safe standard tune, to protect against sauch things.

The discharge temps are pretty high (I'd say around 80 Degrees C), the two cylinders that didn't get enough fuel obviouslly leaned out. Thats why Sprintex has a relativlly safe standard tune, to protect against sauch things.

on my sprintex computer it has 13:1 afr written on it, so im thinking this is the safe afr... mine was tuned at a totally flat 14:7 afr from idle to rev limit... to lean and thats on the dyno...i the real world up a hill more load different temps....

the std tune varys depending on the readings from the sensors inlet temp etc... and on a hot day will run richer and reduce timing... retuned they didnt bother to do that, it is possible to do that on the smt6


whats strange is how it's the middle and right piston (standing infront of the car when hood is open) thats buggered on everyones car..

i dont even know whats really happened to mine, i never botherd to find out..... instead i have gotten a TJ 80XXXkm motor for $770 and thats getting slotted in and mines going to scrap metal lol than she's good as new!

The discharge temps are pretty high (I'd say around 80 Degrees C), the two cylinders that didn't get enough fuel obviouslly leaned out. Thats why Sprintex has a relativlly safe standard tune, to protect against sauch things.


Well the thing is the 7th injector does basically nothing on my car, it was the standard injectors dong just about all the work and they were only running at 65% or something. The AFR of my car was in the low 12's to, as it was a run in/sort out tune.

Well the thing is the 7th injector does basically nothing on my car, it was the standard injectors dong just about all the work and they were only running at 65% or something. The AFR of my car was in the low 12's to, as it was a run in/sort out tune.

If it was that rich what actually happened? Did the 7th fail altogether and leaned out completely?

Also... got any more info on this software? I get the impression it will be able to unlock the stock ecus? Seriously cheap gains to be had with a road tune + cams.

KenShadown i would highly recommend talking to Phil and having a spin in his car, his is one of the few s/c-ed magnas on here where the engine hasnt gone boom (s/c went boom, but thats another story!), and he punishes it, just hasnt really upped the boost or anything (i dont think, not in the respect of andrewd and tzaboy). Maybe from this you can work out if stock tune will be enough for you, and spend the rest on strengthening etc, or if you will want to up it. personally if you're not dragracing or anything i think the stock tune is plenty, but then theres always that need for more power ;)

so yeah, see him! hes currently working at strathies leederville or come to a thurs nite social and check it out for urself. nothing like seeing/hearing these things in person :)

If you supercharge and want a custom tune dont use the perfect power ecu, mine, TZABOY'S and andrew's blew up using that thing.

If you want 10.5psi get forged pistons and water/meth injection added at the same time and a different computer or wait for the tuning software for magna's to come out soon.

I have a feeling the key to you and TZABOY's blowups were mainly caused by using a 7th injector to bump fueling, rather than using 6 larger injectors. There's a reason why you don't see extra injectors being used anymore, it's considered an archaic and imprecise practice, as fueling to each cylinder tends to be inconsistent.

What are the reported problem with using piggbacks? Do they not have enough of a range of adjustment of values for a blower setup?

Also I think the archilles heal of the sprintex kit is the lack of intercooling. If you are gonna up the boost on stock internals, at least get an intercooler, or water/meth injection to stabilise intake temps.

Also you got anymore info about this tuning software for magnas coming out? Is it a flash-tune type device like with the fords? How much is it gonna cost? I've got a Greddy emanage sitting around, I hope it doesn't get made redundant :(

Alrighty, some excellent info to chew on. Stock boost from Sprintex is the go. Don't really want to have to crack my motor open to strengthen it. Also don't really want to add intercoolers or meth/water injection, starts to get very complicated and I not a complicated guy.

What is Phil's username so I can PM him. I should pick his brain as you suggested (Hope I don't pick too hard). Speaking of Thursday night socials, are there any get-togethers planned for October? I will be in Perth for about a week and a half in the middle of October to get the supercharger installed and to go to a friend's wedding.

Next question, are the injector the same size between the standard magna and the ralliart magna? If the 7th injector does nothing and the other 6 run at about 65% (thanks Sports), shouldn't I be able to get away with using the ralliart ECU instead of needing to piggy back another to it? As I understand it the Ralliart already has an additional or modified ECU (actually that may be the extra fuses I have that are not in the owner's manual, asked about in another thread).

What I am trying to ask is if the Ralliart has an additional or modified ECU would I still need the piggy back ECU and the 7th injector or could I get away with the Ralliart's 6 injectors (maybe upsizing them) and the Ralliart ECU?

Also Brisk came back to me with the DOR14LGS-T spark splugs, which are one temp rating cooler than the NGK conversion to Brisk and the -T means reduced gap to allow for stock ignition on a supercharged system. Owner's manual says BKR6E-11 (front) and PFR6J-11 (rear) which converts to DOR15LGS. Cool the spark plugs by one rating for the supercharger to get DOR14LGS and just to be sure it's going to fire using stock ignition in a dense fuel/air mix they become DOR14LGS-T. Just have to find someone that sells them to Australia. Love these plugs, look awesome when they fire, see below.

What are the reported problem with using piggbacks? Do they not have enough of a range of adjustment of values for a blower setup?

Also you got anymore info about this tuning software for magnas coming out? Is it a flash-tune type device like with the fords? How much is it gonna cost? I've got a Greddy emanage sitting around, I hope it doesn't get made redundant :(

Mitsiman destroyed a few engines using a piggyback and it was apparently due to the inherent design, I can't find the post, it may even be on Mitsubishi Club Australia but it took him a while to figure out what was going on before swapping to a full replacement ecu. Bear in mind his engine makes sprintex kits look weak.

Keep badgering Sports about the tuning software :D Forget your emanage, chuck it on ebay, poor people need engine mods :P

organising a cruise to two rocks on 7th october, 2 weeks away, too soon for u?

and Phils username is 'Phil' hehe :)

organising a cruise to two rocks on 7th october, 2 weeks away, too soon for u?

and Phils username is 'Phil' hehe :)

Looking more likely to be the 10th.

Since I have caused this thread to go WAY off topic, I started a new thread http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52542 for all those interested in following the information trail.