View Full Version : Power windows transplant Q #674
RoGuE_StreaK
19-07-2007, 09:18 PM
I know this has been discussed numerous times, but searching didn't reveal a definitive guide to which parts of the loom are desirable, where it all is, etc.
I haven't really had any desire for power windows before, but I've found a cheap donor, so figure I may as well. Got the door panels off, then realised I had better get some info together before butchering it.
I don't need or want the glass, as, #1, they will charge a lot more for that, and #2, I have tinting on my current glass.
The actual door part of the wiring is cool, I'll just rip out the entire door loom and do a swap. What IS unknown is which parts I need to replace in/under the dash? And if it's the main loom, should I just go the whole hog and rip out the climate control and the likes? What do I need to remove to get to said looms?
I was just going to go for the front windows, but how much harder is it to do the rears as well?
I have very limited time to do all this (only a few hours each weekend), so would like to get all of the relevant info together in one spot so I can attack the donor without butchering it or leaving any critical parts behind.
PS. The windows are UP; the sevice manual says to unbolt them when they are DOWN;- any thoughts on how to get them down, as I don't think there is any power available, and I don't have a spare 12v to cart around...
MiScHeF
19-07-2007, 10:07 PM
i actually just took the switches and the motors and installed them in my doors then got a mate of a mate who really knows his work to wire it all up for me, cost me like around $80 for him to do the wiring. thats it... works beautifully...
What wires do you actually need though, how does the motor work? do you simply reverse polarity and it goes in reverse or do the switches actuate a switch on the motor that goes in up or down?
you could wire it yourself without too much hassle, worst part would be dragging the wire under the dash to use the big panel on the drivers door (to control all windows).
RoGuE_StreaK
20-07-2007, 05:24 AM
I'm sure I could just tap power myself, but Mal seemed to say it would actually be easier, not to mention better, to use the proper looms. Things like controlling all windows from driver's side etc.
To get one window to go up and down isn't an issue, it's the multi-control etc.
Of course it would be easier but your problem with that lies in actually getting 100% of all the required looms which seems to be an issue..
I'm sure I could just tap power myself, but Mal seemed to say it would actually be easier, not to mention better, to use the proper looms. Things like controlling all windows from driver's side etc.
To get one window to go up and down isn't an issue, it's the multi-control etc.
RoGuE_StreaK
20-07-2007, 12:53 PM
That's what I'm asking; which looms, and how? And what other non-door bits?
I don't really want to have to completely disassemble the dash just to install some windows, but I guess it depends on what the viable options are.
I'm in the process of doing the same. I gave up on getting the correct loom out of the donor car as it was way too much work. I'll get some multi core and do it myself I think.
[TUFFTR]
20-07-2007, 08:34 PM
Im tempted to get the motors and whatknot out of a car and just get someone to wire it in, seems like alot of hassle to get all of this pre-exsisting wiring out
RoGuE_StreaK
21-07-2007, 02:13 PM
Yep, I can confirm that the door looms are a **** to remove. So much so that in the end I just butchered the wiring, and will wire up my own system.
Even if I could actually get it off the door skins, I'm still buggered if I know how you could physically remove it from the car, as I couldn't see any method of releasing the grommet on the door (car body one is fine, just can't figure out the actual door one).
So I now have the front regulators, skins, and butchered wiring/plugs, awaiting me to get around to putting them in (after re-modifying the skins; no pods on these, and need to swap trims to my black vinyl ones). Might get the rears at some stage, or might not.
Grand total; $40. ($30 regs, $5 per trim).
Methinks it was actually intended to be $30 per reg, but how I understood the response to my initial enquiry was $30 for the fronts, ie. both, so after a little dispute, that was how I was charged. Probably won't be the case for the rears, so I probably won't bother if that's the case (rarely have people in the back. Sitting, that is...)
[TUFFTR]
21-07-2007, 04:03 PM
So with all this wiring in each door, Does it all go back to the drivers door? Or is there something im missing.
Im up for new door trims anyway So KS Ones would go a treat:)
RoGuE_StreaK
21-07-2007, 04:43 PM
I haven't checked out the schematics yet, but yeah, pretty sure each door has power to it's switch, which can be sent to either pole to make the window go up or down, plus the same pair of shall we say "instruction lines" coming from the driver's side.
So (according to my logic :D ), each door has power, which goes to the switch. Two lines come from the switch, dictating whether the motor goes forward or reverse.
The driver's side has controls for all four doors. Looking at simple control (haven't thought about "window lock", or the how the driver's auto-down works), then my thoughts are that three pairs of controls leave the driver's switch-panel to go to their respective doors, mirroring their own switches.
This might be way off, and the Veradas et al probably have some central system for power control, but for mine it would seem that this should do the job with the minimum of fuss. Leave out the driver's control of the other doors and it simplifies it even more, but the other controls shouldn't be too hard to wire in.
RoGuE_StreaK
21-07-2007, 05:52 PM
Just checked the schematics, and it's pretty much exactly as I thought.
Window Lock simply cuts the power, nothing more. Driver's auto-down is actually a circuit built into the switch assembly itself, fully self-contained. Should work no matter how it is wired.
[TUFFTR]
21-07-2007, 08:48 PM
Is this the schematic in the gregorys manual or similar?
RoGuE_StreaK
22-07-2007, 04:55 AM
In the service manual pdf (pg 1138), I honestly haven't looked at my "paper-based" manual in yonks, so got no idea if it is in there as well or not. It's in the car, will look later on.
RoGuE_StreaK
22-07-2007, 07:03 AM
Quick note: FL, FR, & RR get their earth through their two leads coming from the driver's side control. The earth is what is cut when "window lock" is on.
So if you want to wire 'em up independently, you will need to provide earth to these two wires.
On wiring:
Blue = power line.
Black (drivers) = earth
green-black: RF up
red-blue: RF down
brown-yellow: LF up
green-yellow: LF down
brown-blue: LR up
green-blue: LR: down
green: RR up
brown-green: RR down
[TUFFTR]
22-07-2007, 09:20 PM
So is that how easy it is???
Its just a power and earth to the drivers switch, then all the wiring (2 colors per door) is just relayed back to the drivers unit??
Man when i get some $$ Im doing this!!
Mrmacomouto
22-07-2007, 09:22 PM
sounds pretty easy to me!
Lucifer
23-07-2007, 06:37 AM
I'd so do this, however the wreckers want to charge me $150 PER DOOR for the kit, **** them.
RoGuE_StreaK
23-07-2007, 07:28 AM
Hey Lucifer, might be worth a drive to Brissy! I'd previously been quoted $200 from the same wreckers, but they appear to have had a reshuffle in pricing. Probably about 5 cars there with the full power windows intact...
I'm guessing the correct pricing at this wrecker is $30 per regulator, and $5 per trim.
And I'm not telling which one it is until I decide whether to get the rears; once I've taken my fill, the rest of you scavengers can fight it out! :D
[TUFFTR]
26-07-2007, 10:21 AM
Hows the conversion coming along?
RoGuE_StreaK
26-07-2007, 11:10 AM
It's not, yet. I only have weekends available, if that.
Will probably try to get all the wiring fully planned, sorted, and soldered before I actually install anything. So probably won't be this weekend.
Also have to find out a proper price on the rears, if I can get both for the same price cool, if it's $30 each don't know if I'll bother with the rears at the moment, maybe sometime in the future (will make the wiring so that the option is there in the future).
Call me a tight****, but I have to justify the expenditure, and there's other things that are higher priority, like setting up my business.
RoGuE_StreaK
04-08-2007, 12:48 PM
Anyone know where I can find the connector C-04? It apparently gets power to pin2 from the dedicated windows relay, but the connecting plug doesn't won't have a pin on non-power-window looms. Would prefer to use the "proper" method of obtaining power, via the relay, than piggy-backing off another accessories source.
The only candidates I spotted for C-04 are these, first group more likely (under steering column, BTW):
And no, it shouldn't be on the junction box somewhere.
RoGuE_StreaK
09-08-2007, 01:25 PM
Anyone?
No-one?
RoGuE_StreaK
02-09-2007, 04:30 PM
Well, I now have one working power window. Kinda.
Door card doesn't seem to want to go on properly at the moment, I think the speaker hole might be slightly out. Plus it looks like the metal support for the arm-rest is different, so will have to get that next weekend.
Couldn't track down the power line in the end, so, as I needed to run a wire through the firewall for my driving lights anyway, I ran a pair though, tapping into the blue wire in the relay box itself.
One of the biggest headaches was actually getting the wires through the grommet thing in the door! I ran fairly heavy-duty wiring, plus the extra pair for the door light. Still plenty of room in the grommet / tube thing, just a matter of getting the bloody things fed through!
The physical act of swapping over the regulators probably only took half an hour, main time aspects were wiring and swapping over my modified bits from the old door trims to the new ones (new ones didn't have speaker pods).
Now that most of the wiring is in place, and everything is is fairly organised, driver's door should be fairly straight-forward when I get to it next weekend.
1. Umm, that bit goes there... (it's more organised than it looks, honest)
2. The dreaded grommet
3. Out with the old, in with the new
TR 300000
02-09-2007, 07:06 PM
This is all pretty darn impressive. Thanks for showing us some photos and updating us on the work in progress.
BTW what wreckers did you go to for the parts?
RoGuE_StreaK
02-09-2007, 07:40 PM
Parts were from ABC Wreckers @ Wacol (western suburbs Brisvegas). Not sure if pricing is now across the board at all of the ABC's in the area.
Pricing from there has been confirmed as $30 per regulator, $5 per door trim. I lucked out by claiming ignorance over a previous quote, and got the pair for $30. Later talked to the guy I got the original quote from, and obviously I had misconstrued what he had told me
Convo:
Me: "how much for the fronts?"
Him: "30 bucks"
Me: "how much for the rears?"
Him: "30 bucks"
I took that to mean the pair, not each. But in my ignorance I told the guy at the counter the next week (original guy wasn't there) that that's what I'd been quoted, so that's what he reluctantly put them through as! :D
PS. Wiring-wise, there are only three wires required for the passenger doors, in this case the red and black are a pair, going to the driver's side for earth and driver's control (currently both are simply earthed), and the blue is power. If you don't want driver's control, two wires will suffice, power and dual-earth.
Driver's has up to eight wires; one earth, one power, and 3pairs of controls to the other doors. For now I will stick to just the fronts, so will only need four wires.
The three wires described above go through the dash to the driver's door, and a tap to the power line occurs around the glovebox, where the new power line comes in through the grommet (pics at a later date). An earth then joins them to on their journey into the driver's door (am temporarily supplying earth through the currently unused driving-lights trigger wire I put through the firewall at the same time).
Mrmacomouto
07-09-2007, 08:12 PM
On wiring:
Blue = power line.
Black (drivers) = earth
green-black: RF up
red-blue: RF down
brown-yellow: LF up
green-yellow: LF down
brown-blue: LR up
green-blue: LR: down
green: RR up
brown-green: RR down
Mate you are a legend!
One question though, the blue wire on each slave door goes back to the drivers door yeah, and this provides 12V constant?
Also, so the door lock button just cuts the earth wire on the drivers door does it?
[TUFFTR]
07-09-2007, 08:19 PM
Well im going to be getting new door trims soon for the leather...
The question is though, do i pay the $75 odd and get me 4 normal door trims (winder)
or fork out the extra and get the elec motors?:S
RoGuE_StreaK
07-09-2007, 08:45 PM
One question though, the blue wire on each slave door goes back to the drivers door yeah, and this provides 12V constant?
Blue wire provides 12V+ power, on it's own line from it's own relay, but you could probably do it other ways if need be.
Doesn't matter where it goes, as long as it ends up at each door. It doesn't need to go to the driver's door first, it goes to each one equally.
I've essentially run one power wire behind the dash, tapped around the glovebox to another wire going through the firewall to the power relay, and either end of the dash wire goes to the front winders. (diagrams to come maybe this weekend).
Also, so the door lock button just cuts the earth wire on the drivers door does it?
Yep, the main earth wire goes in to the driver's control, and two earth wires per slave door come out, providing earth for the up and down of each slave door. Cut that one earth, and none of the circuits can get completed, locking out all windows.
If you don't want to control all windows, and want to simplify the wiring, you can just provide power and one direct earth to each door, simply tying the up and down wires to the one earth.
Actually, I might make up a simple interactive Flash diagram of one circuit, so people can see how exactly it works... if I get around to it this weekend.
Tuffy, what exactly are you replacing on the trims? The entire card, or the inset trim bit? If the latter, shouldn't cost you more than $5 each.
[TUFFTR]
07-09-2007, 08:48 PM
Nah getting the whole door card.
Door cards at PAP Are $17 each which are cool....Dont know how much the regulators are though
Mrmacomouto
08-09-2007, 10:38 AM
Ah this is so easy!
Blue provides power to all the doors running off it's own 22A relay, then it's as easy as matching up all the wires on the slave door and the main door!
RoGuE_StreaK
08-09-2007, 04:32 PM
Well, it's all in and running, couple of things to tidy up tomorrow (broke a speaker wire), I'm buggered, so proper updates tomorrow!
[TUFFTR]
08-09-2007, 04:48 PM
Well, it's all in and running, couple of things to tidy up tomorrow (broke a speaker wire), I'm buggered, so proper updates tomorrow!
Lovely!!
Holidays are in 2 weeks so its Project time again:cool:
ts3.0
09-09-2007, 11:14 AM
so whats the verdict? was it hard? worth doing? why i ask is my make has a written off kr verada in his back yard. how much should i offer him for all the gear?
RoGuE_StreaK
09-09-2007, 12:40 PM
Well, it was worth it for me 'cause I got 'em (the fronts) cheap ($40 total), and did all the wiring myself (about $15 worth of wire and connectors). Doubt I'll ever bother with the rears.
If you have ready access to the wreck, then maybe it might be more worthwhile to disassemble the dash and remove the proper loom. If you can figure out how to get the wiring out of the f@#king doors! :rant:
If you do that, you probably may as well look at the climate control while you are there.
If you are paying someone to wire it up, forget about it. Would cost a fortune.
I had to also swap my door mods to the new door skins; black vinyl trims, and speaker pods (these electric panels didn't have speakers). So that took a little while.
The biggest pain is feeding the wiring through the door grommets, especially if you also have speaker wiring and door-light wiring (the red thing). There appears to be plenty of space, but it took me literally an hour per door! (speaker cable snapped, so had to rethread a new one as well).
All up I'd say a full weekend's work.
How much to offer? Dunno, how good a mate is he?:D Maybe $80 for the whole front assemblies?
May as well add the piccies:
1. (glovebox) Red wire is power coming through the firewall, tapping into the blue power provider, which is bundled with a heavy-duty figure8 pair that act as the earth lines for the passenger window. (green is speaker wires, BTW, to be replaced)
2. Passengers, complete
3. Drivers almost complete (red light connected shortly thereafter)
Started on the flash diagram the other night, may yet get around to completing it.
[TUFFTR]
18-09-2007, 04:47 PM
Well i managed to get 1 door trim today with the elec window stuff (button)
But went to anotehr wrecker who told me $250 for the lot (4 trims, 4 elec motors)
Good price?
']Well i managed to get 1 door trim today with the elec window stuff (button)
But went to anotehr wrecker who told me $250 for the lot (4 trims, 4 elec motors)
Good price?
That sounds alright to me, they are electric windows after all....a mate got quoted something like $600 for power windows in his CE Lancer sedan.
RoGuE_StreaK
18-09-2007, 09:02 PM
As per Tuffy's request, here's an extremely simplified, rushed (etc., you get the picture) diagram of the power wiring.
Blue is +12V, needs to go to each door.
Black is a single earth wire, going to the driver's control. This provide earth for all doors, and cutting it via the "window lock" button deactivates all controls.
From the driver's door come six wires, an up and a down for each of the three passenger doors. These provide both driver's control, and earth for the local controls.
If you want to run the bare minimum, you can just send a power wire and an earth wire to each door individually, losing driver's remote control. At the passenger doors, the earth wire needs to connect to both of the wires that would normally go to the driver's side (you can just ground these to test your windows before everything is fully installed).
See previous pages for which colours are which, or page 1138 in the service manual pdf.
[TUFFTR]
18-09-2007, 09:18 PM
Thanks lee, Just what i needed to know
Looking At this though, using some 7 Core trailer wire might be the easier option
Lucifer
18-09-2007, 09:44 PM
Who wants to search around their local wreckers and sell me a power window kit :)
perry
19-09-2007, 05:46 AM
i've been quoted $160 for the power windows mechnism, as munch wiring as i can get + the door trims, is that a good price, its out of a TS se, i was gonna try and get them down a bit more??
[TUFFTR]
19-09-2007, 07:04 AM
i've been quoted $160 for the power windows mechnism, as munch wiring as i can get + the door trims, is that a good price, its out of a TS se, i was gonna try and get them down a bit more??
f*** that is cheap, just make sure it comes with everything dude
RoGuE_StreaK
19-09-2007, 07:22 AM
']Thanks lee, Just what i needed to know
Looking At this though, using some 7 Core trailer wire might be the easier option
Dunno about that, the stock wiring seems to be pretty heavy-duty, don't know what kind of gauge trailer wire is.
Anyway, it probably wouldn't suit; once you get the wiring past one door, you've lost the need for half of those wires. Maybe use heavy-duty figure-8, bundled together with electrical tape (wrapped diagonally, looks very pro), then just split off a pair when needed.
DSE has heavy fig-8 for 99c/m, whereas the single wires of the same thickness are 79c/m; cheaper to just buy fig-8 and split it! (depends on whether you want to colour co-ordinate or not I guess).
PS. $160 for the lot is probably about the best deal you'd be able to find. It's on par with the $30/reg + $5/trim from my local
Also might come down to whether you think you actually recquire the rears as well; I couldn't justify the extra expense to put in rears, when I virtually never have anyone sitting in the back, and if they are, then hell, they've got muscles, wind 'em down yourself!
Maybe if you are selling it might be worthwhile adding to the rear, but I can live with not having power in the rear.
Mrmacomouto
19-09-2007, 02:09 PM
I got all my stuff for 110
[TUFFTR]
19-09-2007, 04:28 PM
I got all my stuff for 110
**** you, where from!
Rouge, yeah good point i guess, Does it say in the PDF what amperage fuse it uses for that wire? I saw the wiring and it looked like 20A wiring
Mrmacomouto
19-09-2007, 06:44 PM
Got all the switches and regulators and most of the wiring from TeacoDan, and Anthony gave me the door trims when I got the car.
[TUFFTR]
20-09-2007, 08:07 PM
Well, picking up my full conversion kit tomorrow :D
Rouge - i checked out page 1138 in the user manual and i got lost as soon as it said ETACS Module
So i think ill use your diagram hehe
Where did you get power from? and what fuse is it? Says 10A in the manual
RoGuE_StreaK
20-09-2007, 09:03 PM
May attempt to create a more user-friendly complete diagram at some stage. Maybe. Don't have much spare time lately.
Forget about the etacs side of the page. In non-etacs cases, it's simply "ignition switches on relay, power goes to windows". :D
For power, if you get another relay for the relay box (they are all the same type) and put it in the power windows slot, this gives you a dedicated circuit. I wanted to use this circuit if possible, but couldn't track down where the power wire coming from the relay comes into the cabin.
This mystical blue wire looks like it's supposed to come to a dead end on non-power cars somewhere near the back of the dash on the driver's side, but buggered if I could find it, even with some pointers from TecoDan. So I pulled apart the relay box, found said blue wire coming from said relay, and tapped it at the source with my own wire; I now knew where the power was going, 'cause I was routing it myself!
This wire then went 'round the engine bay and into the passenger grommet, emerging in the glovebox area, where it taps into my new window loom (see photo 1).
Don't worry if you can't actually find the hole of this grommet from inside, just feed the wire through and it'll emerge from the depths...
Oh, and if this seems redundant, I was going to run a new trigger wire for my driving lights, so just ran a pair instead. Easy, just routing through some heavy-duty figure-8 and trying to make it look "purty".lol
Haven't actually put in an extra fuse, from my reading of the schematic this is taken care of by the fusible link, and the schematic doesn't appear to include any other fuses in the stock install. Seems to be a 10Amp on the relay coil line, not sure what's on the load line, but fairly sure it's covered by something already.
[TUFFTR]
20-09-2007, 09:07 PM
Jesus
lol
Might just run my own line from the battery..
but i will investigate what youve said first :D
RoGuE_StreaK
20-09-2007, 09:16 PM
']Might just run my own line from the battery..No harder to do it from the relay box. Was just a bit of a pain getting it apart far enough to crimp on the tap (the blue ones from K-Mart and the like, needs to be the heavier guage).
Unless you unwrap the bundle of wires after it's left the relay box, but there's not much room to move.
Of course if you can figure out where the hell the blue wire ends up it could save some hassles, but according to TecoDan the "easieast" method of reaching it was to remove the quarter-panel! (which I actually did start trying to do, but got scared of when I removed every bolt I could see and it still didn't seem to want to come off...)
[TUFFTR]
21-09-2007, 11:37 PM
I didnt know which wire would be suitable, so i ended up getting HD Figure 8 cable at $1.44 a meter, Holds 17A
Tomorrow will be fun :)
Lucifer
22-09-2007, 06:36 AM
No harder to do it from the relay box. Was just a bit of a pain getting it apart far enough to crimp on the tap (the blue ones from K-Mart and the like, needs to be the heavier guage).
Unless you unwrap the bundle of wires after it's left the relay box, but there's not much room to move.
Of course if you can figure out where the hell the blue wire ends up it could save some hassles, but according to TecoDan the "easieast" method of reaching it was to remove the quarter-panel! (which I actually did start trying to do, but got scared of when I removed every bolt I could see and it still didn't seem to want to come off...)
Quarter panel removal requires the front bar to drop down on that particular side so you'll need to unbolt some of that :shock:
[TUFFTR]
22-09-2007, 12:30 PM
Well, Lucifer, When i send you down your regs, Be prepared for this
This is how many wires are coming out of the RHF Grommet
:rant:
Absolutly NO IDEA where to start...
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/P9220058.jpg
The i found 3 plugs in which i dont know what they connect to! (theres one for the Door lamp and one for the P/W Switch, These are the others! if anyone knows what they are this will save me a bit of hassle)
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/P9220063.jpg
Now this is the switch that goes into the RHF P/W Switch, again, no idea, ill probably take all the tape off and start from scratch i think!
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/P9220059.jpg
This will take me longer then the 2 weeks holidays i have hahaha
RoGuE_StreaK
22-09-2007, 09:27 PM
You might need to give us an account of exactly which bits you acqired, so we know where to start with help.
Other wiring probably includes central locking, power mirrors, door lamp, and possibly alarm/remote/keyring light?
[TUFFTR]
23-09-2007, 05:50 PM
You might need to give us an account of exactly which bits you acqired, so we know where to start with help.
Other wiring probably includes central locking, power mirrors, door lamp, and possibly alarm/remote/keyring light?
Well, it was pretty much all the wiring cut off from inside the car, its still threaded in the grommet the car came out of!
What i will do is probably strip it all and get rid of the stuff i dont need!
Lucifer
23-09-2007, 06:30 PM
']What i will do is probably strip it all and get rid of the stuff i dont need!
That would be what I'd do bro :)
Mrmacomouto
23-09-2007, 10:41 PM
Get a nice sharp knife and just remove all the wrapping around the wires, then just separate the wires you need and run from there, much easier than swapping looms.
[TUFFTR]
24-09-2007, 06:10 PM
Ok well i think ive sorted most of this out
What im gathering here is
Blue - Power???
Green - ?
Brown/green - ?
Black - Earth
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/Wires1.jpg
Now the 3 wires on the left are blue, green, and black, which, blue and green are common to all 3 other doors, the black im guessing is earth
the green/brown, brown/green, brown/yellow wires are confusing me a tad, as there seems to be like 5 of these wires on the RHS of the drivers control....
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/Wires4.jpg
And heres the waste
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/Wires5.jpg
RoGuE_StreaK
24-09-2007, 08:21 PM
Mate, did you even read anything of what I posted?! :badgrin:
You'll have one black wire, only going to driver's door, and this is your master earth.
Blue is, yes, + power. Blue will be on all doors.
Now for the nitty-gritty;
_________
Brown-Yellow is Front Passenger UP earth and control. It provides both the earthing for the up circuit on the front passenger door, and a means for the driver to also close that circuit, putting the window up.
Green-Yellow is Front Passenger DOWN earth and control.
_________
Rear Left UP earth and control is Brown-Blue from the driver's control, but changes to Brown-Green at the destination door (for some unknown reason).
Rear Left DOWN earth and control is Green-Blue at driver's control, Green at the destination.
_________
Rear Right UP earth and control is Brown-Green (at both ends)
Rear Right DOWN earth and control is Green at both ends.
_________
Driver's should probably still be connected to the motor, but if not, the Green-Black coming from the driver's switches is the Driver's side DOWN earth, the Red-Blue is the UP earth.
So in part summary; You will have a Blue and two earth wires for the other doors, one earth for up, one earth for down. This way you can complete the circuit and make it go the way you want from either the switch on that door, or the switch on the driver's door.
So looking above, the Green you pointed out is actually only the earth for the Down circuit of the rear right.
Black is the earth going IN to the driver's door.
Blue will need to connect somehow to all of the other blues, and to a power source.
And the rest, left to right:
Green-Brown: Right rear UP
Green-Yellow (by elimination): Front passenger DOWN
Green-Blue: Rear left DOWN
Brown-Yellow: Front passenger UP
Brown-Blue: Rear left UP
PS. Don't chuck those connecters, they can come in handy sometimes.
[TUFFTR]
24-09-2007, 08:30 PM
:nuts: Sorry man, i thought i had read everything!
However, that answers everything :D
Much love to you:bowdown:
Thank you:)
[TUFFTR]
24-09-2007, 08:49 PM
Also, the power window switches, i am keen to paint the surrounds of the switch, but not the switch itself, how does the switch come out? i already think ive ruined one of them lol
Mrmacomouto
25-09-2007, 07:24 AM
Doing the same at the moment mate.
On the side of the switch there are two little tabs that slide over a pivot point,m you have to lift up the tabs and then the switch should just pop out.
[TUFFTR]
25-09-2007, 05:04 PM
Doing the same at the moment mate.
On the side of the switch there are two little tabs that slide over a pivot point,m you have to lift up the tabs and then the switch should just pop out.
hehe, lucky for me i had 4 spare switches so i tried it on those first, what i had done is take out the back first, and the switch last, but in the end for painting that was the right thing to do..
So far ive got the 2 rear doors wired up, with all the wires through the grommets, running the wires through the rear grommets is actually very easy, did not take me long at all.
So tonight/tomorrow the front seats will be coming out so i can run the wires down and up to the drivers door where the fun will begin!
[TUFFTR]
26-09-2007, 04:14 PM
Well all wires are run, and tonight it shall be time to connect it all!
[TUFFTR]
28-09-2007, 01:40 PM
Well 3 windows are in and working!!!!
Only have the drivers side to do in which i will do tomorrow!
Had a bit of trouble getting the factory relay to work, but its in, and works, so tomorrow all thats left are the door trims and drivers side, its actually a pretty easy conversion
Lucifer
28-09-2007, 03:57 PM
']Well 3 windows are in and working!!!!
Only have the drivers side to do in which i will do tomorrow!
Had a bit of trouble getting the factory relay to work, but its in, and works, so tomorrow all thats left are the door trims and drivers side, its actually a pretty easy conversion
Got all my door trims and switches today :D
[TUFFTR]
28-09-2007, 07:59 PM
Got all my door trims and switches today :D
Luci, Ill show you how i hooked mine up later on...
It was pretty fiddly, but looks OEM (as its runs off the relay made for the P/W's!)
Also, i soldered ALL my wires, even the ones in the relay box, you will need a HIGH POWER soldering iron to make light of the thick wiring.
i used a 130W Soldering iron....
Mrmacomouto
29-09-2007, 07:48 AM
I got my power directly from the battery, that way my windows will work even when the car is off...
[TUFFTR]
29-09-2007, 08:41 AM
I got my power directly from the battery, that way my windows will work even when the car is off...
Yeah i was going to do that way, for some reason i wanted this to be sort of factory...
Plus my battery terminals have millions of wires anyway
Mrmacomouto
29-09-2007, 10:16 AM
How much harder was it to do using the relay? I noticed that my car has a relay in the P/W spot, but it wasn't being used.
RoGuE_StreaK
29-09-2007, 10:59 AM
A simple splice.
Just a matter of tracking down the correct wire to splice to...:shifty: (sorry about that Tuffy...lol )
In my defence, most pinouts (diagrams of pin numbers) are taken as looking from above; looks like these relays are taken as looking at the pins.
[TUFFTR]
29-09-2007, 02:31 PM
A simple splice.
Just a matter of tracking down the correct wire to splice to...:shifty: (sorry about that Tuffy...lol )
In my defence, most pinouts (diagrams of pin numbers) are taken as looking from above; looks like these relays are taken as looking at the pins.
hahaha nah mate your right...
Had a few problems with it blowing fuses, but (Im thinking) was thanks to a dodgey switch i had put back together, as soon as id go to use said window, it would blow..
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a52/dodgeviper89/ChromeHandles2.jpg
SEXAYYYY
Edit* For anyone who reads, it keeps blowing fuses....
I hate this relay box crap, might just run it right from the battery with a 10A fuse...why would it be blowing fuses though? Guess its up to me to find out :(
Lucifer
04-10-2007, 05:47 PM
Well... I've got all of my motors and regulators, thank you TUFFTR!!! :D
When I'm free next week these will be dropped in as part of my black interior conversion :D
[TUFFTR]
04-10-2007, 07:05 PM
Well... I've got all of my motors and regulators, thank you TUFFTR!!! :D
When I'm free next week these will be dropped in as part of my black interior conversion :D
Awesome man glad you got them all and well.
Got my other 2 in today...
Leather and chrome handles pwn teh fluff soo much!
Have fun luci....Will set you back qiute a while
ts3.0
04-10-2007, 07:07 PM
looks nice man, youre startin to get some real nice style happenin, all you need is some door pods and youre set
[TUFFTR]
04-10-2007, 07:20 PM
looks nice man, youre startin to get some real nice style happenin, all you need is some door pods and youre set
cbf, i just whacked the speakers in the side, one day ill make another custom door pod lol
axelr8
30-10-2007, 07:53 AM
Just want to say this is a great thread, I hardly had to think at all when doing my conversion.. :P
I am in the middle, well mostly finished, of getting everything hooked up. For now I am only doing the 2 fronts.
With the 2 earth wires that go from the drivers main switch to the sub switches, should they both be a constant earth?
When I put the multimeter on the brown-yellow wire (LF up), it's not providing earth. Does the mean the switch is screwed? If so I'll take it back and swap it over.
For now I am using the LF-down earth for both the up and down circuits at the LF switch. So I at least can use the LF sub switch to operate the window, I just can't control it from the driver's master switch... the window lock still works though. :)
RoGuE_StreaK
30-10-2007, 12:03 PM
When the driver's side switch is in the neutral position, both of these lines should be a direct line to earth.
Have you tested for earth at both ends? Could be a fault in the connecting wiring somewhere. I'm not feeling very analytical at the moment, so the best I can suggest is to take out the driver's side switch box and test the switches directly; test continuity on the relevant switches/wires. Always best to simplify the problem where possible, to rule out extraneous crap.
At least the window lock shows that the LF-down is going to earth where it is supposed to.
axelr8
30-10-2007, 01:59 PM
Yeah I tested right where the brown-yellow wire leaves the drivers control connector. And I also tested the continuity of each of the LF ground/control wires from the drivers side to where it comes out on the front passengers side.
I'm about to head to the wreckers now and swap it over so I'll post back later if it resolves the problem.
On a side note, the driver's master switch was the only one I couldn't find at U-Pull-It so it ended up costing me $110. Everything else was pretty cheap though; $40 for each regulator and $5.50 for each of the sub switches (including the arm-rest part with the cut-out).
axelr8
31-10-2007, 04:45 PM
Turns out it was the drivers master switch causing the problem. Swapped it over and got a constant earth on both the up and down wires.
GoTRICE
23-07-2008, 12:02 PM
Would there be a problem piggy backing this onto something like headunit or cig lighter power so it is fused or will it draw too much current?
Also could someone enlighten me on how the relays are set and work? I have yet to deal with them. Slight chances ill throw another one in and run it like a factory set up?
Also are the spare 2 wires (ie 5 wires / door) just to be grounded at the door? ie passenger front green/black and red/blue grounded??
I probably would like these to work on constant power.
ty
RoGuE_StreaK
23-07-2008, 02:24 PM
Can't recall how much power they draw off the top of my head. I toyed with the idea of setting them up for constant power, but figured I'd stick with the stock setup in the end. Next job when I get around to it is to make a delay circuit so I get say 10secs of power after the key is turned off.
Relay on stock setup is on when key is at or past Acc, off when turned to Off. So you need at least Acc level to be able to run 'em. Can be annoying sometimes, but I think I figured out a few valid reasons for this, none of which I can recall ATM.
All passenger doors (front and rear) only have three wires; one blue for power, and the two earth wires for earthing "up" or "down". You COULD probably just earth them directly to a good earth point near each door, if you didn't want them to be controllable by the driver. To get driver's control, you need to run each of these earth pairs back to the driver's door.
If you are going to the trouble of retrofitting power windows, may as well go the whole hog and run all of the proper controls.
[pre-post edit]: I think the idea of the relay / not running constant power, is that you shouldn't have constant power to anything that has the potential to draw lots of current, meaning both a potential to drain your battery and also the potential to start electrical fires while you are away from your car. If you think about it, the constant power devices in the car are all low-power; stereo for keeping settings stored, clock to keep it running, that's about it, everything else switches off when you turn the key off.
Madmagna
23-07-2008, 07:14 PM
The constant power thing is more for security as when the switches are neutral, no power flows.
Again, the best way is to get a factory harness, these are a dime a dozen at most of the yards these days, complete harness will set you back about 80 bucks, your time in "patching" into the harness is worth more than the ease of just grabbing a harness and plugging it in.
I am about to do my TF, have the door harnesses, will be getting a verada harness and then strip out the factory wiring and run this. The TF fortunately has the wiring from the engine bay into the cabin and that is where it stops so will be easier.
The TR/S does not have this, you will change the harness from end to end, is not as hard as it sounds. You can grab cruise control while you are at it too lol
RoGuE_StreaK
23-07-2008, 07:37 PM
Hey Mal, bit late for me now but might help someone in future, how exactly do you get the wiring looms out of the doors? I couldn't figure out how to get it off, and am fairly handy with wiring so just decided to re-do the loom myself.
Madmagna
23-07-2008, 08:07 PM
I have a TR here for Vira now, will take a couple of pics over the weekend (if I remember) and this will explain all
Is not that hard, you need to unplug (front) up inside the pillar, the boot pulls out of the door jamb and the plug comes out. Getting it out of the door is fairly simple and should all pull out.
Can not remember if it is the first or second gen with the elec mirror where yo have to deplug the mirror connection to get it down the inside of the door
GoTRICE
23-07-2008, 09:31 PM
All passenger doors (front and rear) only have three wires; one blue for power, and the two earth wires for earthing "up" or "down". You COULD probably just earth them directly to a good earth point near each door, if you didn't want them to be controllable by the driver. To get driver's control, you need to run each of these earth pairs back to the driver's door.
If you are going to the trouble of retrofitting power windows, may as well go the whole hog and run all of the proper controls.
See thats what i don't get. There's 5 wires by my thinking but the way you explain it. Is it 2 earths 1 power and 2 for up and down.
Does this mean there are 4 wires sent to the drivers door or...
You keep saying there's 3 but there is 5 which confuses me.
thanks.
Ps i think i'll hook it up to constant through the stereo so as to prevent fires/melting of wires if problems occur.
RoGuE_StreaK
24-07-2008, 05:17 AM
The two earths ARE the up and down; there's one power supply, and direction of motor depends on which one of these earths is connected via the switch.
Don't remember exactly what wires are there on a stock setup, maybe you are seeing wires associated with something else, like the door light?
The driver's door has... can't remember at the moment, but by reasoning I reckon it must be 8 wires; two wires (the up/down earths) for each passenger door, one blue wire which is the power (blue also goes to each door), and a black wire which is the MAIN ground wire; this is what EVERY switch gets grounded through, as they all come back to the driver's door before going to ground (if a switch is pressed).
As the driver's door doesn't need to be controlled elsewhere, it doesn't need the two wires in/out, it's up/down just connect directly to the black main ground wire.
Sorry if that doesn't make sense, it's early... one day I might get around to finishing off that interactive diagram I started way back...
GoTRICE
24-07-2008, 08:01 AM
The two earths ARE the up and down; there's one power supply, and direction of motor depends on which one of these earths is connected via the switch.
Don't remember exactly what wires are there on a stock setup, maybe you are seeing wires associated with something else, like the door light?
The driver's door has... can't remember at the moment, but by reasoning I reckon it must be 8 wires; two wires (the up/down earths) for each passenger door, one blue wire which is the power (blue also goes to each door), and a black wire which is the MAIN ground wire; this is what EVERY switch gets grounded through, as they all come back to the driver's door before going to ground (if a switch is pressed).
As the driver's door doesn't need to be controlled elsewhere, it doesn't need the two wires in/out, it's up/down just connect directly to the black main ground wire.
Here's some photos depicting the 5 wires of the passenger side window.
3 as you've mentioned i know where to wire them up;
blue; power
brown/yellow; up earth to drivers door
green/yellow; down earth to drivers door
then there's the 2 other wires
red/blue; ??
green/black; ??
36324
36325
cheers
aj
Mrmacomouto
24-07-2008, 11:32 AM
Err I can't remeber the switches having any other terminals.
Can I suggest, don't plug them into anything and see if the windows work?
As for the cont. power, thats how mine are set up, they run though a 25/20amp fuse then onto the battery.
RoGuE_StreaK
24-07-2008, 11:52 AM
Looks maybe like it's woodgrain, so possibly it's a high-end thing only? The service manual doesn't seem to show any other wires...
Not sure what they could be.:think:
GoTRICE
24-07-2008, 06:17 PM
super. Well i guess i can hook an up or down wire to + battery terminal and ground the other and see if it works??
RoGuE_StreaK
24-07-2008, 07:50 PM
Absolutely, it's a must to test-drive your connections before installing it; nothing worse than putting it all in, not have it work, spend hours troubleshooting, only to find that it either never worked to begin with or you had it set up wrong!
BUT, on re-reading what you just wrote; THERE IS ONLY ONE "+"!!! This is the blue wire, which is COMMON!! Hook the blue to the + on your battery, and earth either the Up or Down wire; this is what happens when you press one of the switches.
Madmagna
24-07-2008, 07:53 PM
If it has woodgrain, the other wires are for the ETACS as there is a 30s delay in power down until the windows are not longer able to be put up. If a window is used it resets th 30s.
If you hve a proper setup and remove the drivers door switch panel, none of the others work. From memory the switch to disable the other windows cuts power to them.
GoTRICE
24-07-2008, 07:59 PM
thanks chaps. I guess i might throw them in tomorrow then.
RoGuE_StreaK
25-07-2008, 03:42 PM
there is a 30s delay in power down until the windows are not longer able to be put up. If a window is used it resets th 30s.Hmm, sounds like a fairly clever way of doing it; might have to investigate doing this on my delay circuit (got all the bits, just have to figure out where to hook it into the system)
GoTRICE
30-07-2008, 08:01 PM
more super. All worked before i crimped them up. Both drivers and at the door.
Now only the drivers works. The others don't have the switches plugged in now but thats the only thing thats changed.
Also i wired 2 wires to the motor from my switch and 2 to the drivers door. Thats on my wierd 5 wire switch...
Hope someone can tell me whats wrong as i dont want to do stuff.
[TUFFTR]
30-07-2008, 08:38 PM
more super. All worked before i crimped them up. Both drivers and at the door.
Now only the drivers works. The others don't have the switches plugged in now but thats the only thing thats changed.
Also i wired 2 wires to the motor from my switch and 2 to the drivers door. Thats on my wierd 5 wire switch...
Hope someone can tell me whats wrong as i dont want to do stuff.
Please tell me you soldered every single one of your connections and didnt crimp them :redface:
GoTRICE
30-07-2008, 09:21 PM
']Please tell me you soldered every single one of your connections and didnt crimp them :redface:
i soldered them at first, but crimping was alot faster...:redface:
[TUFFTR]
30-07-2008, 09:30 PM
i soldered them at first, but crimping was alot faster...:redface:
Get your ass back out there and solder them dude! Because there is so much wiring in so many places, its mainly piece of mind, if you crimp them, and lets say, one gets tugged at somehow and comes out/loose, your going to have to do ALOT of tracing back to find out what caused it.
Remember your going to have wire > crimp > crimp > wire
So thats 3 joins where it can come apart in one wire
(this is how i think of it anyway)
When i did my power windows AJ i didnt solder ONE connection which was the one in the fusebox and guess which one came loose mate :P
Just do it properly even if it does take a bit more time
GoTRICE
31-07-2008, 06:24 AM
']Get your ass back out there and solder them dude! Because there is so much wiring in so many places, its mainly piece of mind, if you crimp them, and lets say, one gets tugged at somehow and comes out/loose, your going to have to do ALOT of tracing back to find out what caused it.
Remember your going to have wire > crimp > crimp > wire
So thats 3 joins where it can come apart in one wire
(this is how i think of it anyway)
When i did my power windows AJ i didnt solder ONE connection which was the one in the fusebox and guess which one came loose mate :P
Just do it properly even if it does take a bit more time
that's gaydoor, i did check that all the crimps were tight... I didnt put the trims on yet. I'll do it over the weekend, got to hook up the grouds for the courtesy lights too.
[TUFFTR]
31-07-2008, 07:52 AM
that's gaydoor, i did check that all the crimps were tight... I didnt put the trims on yet. I'll do it over the weekend, got to hook up the grouds for the courtesy lights too.
Yeah man do it once do it right!
Madmagna
31-07-2008, 11:36 AM
If the switch is not plugged in the window will not operate. I discovered this years ago when one of my rear door switches was out and the window would not operate from the front switches either .
GoTRICE
31-07-2008, 03:27 PM
If the switch is not plugged in the window will not operate. I discovered this years ago when one of my rear door switches was out and the window would not operate from the front switches either .
correct.
**** yeah best news ever. It's not that im lazy...
I'll just check which mount/bracket is it from the p/w door i need?? rather not put the trim on to check when i could read it.
RoGuE_StreaK
31-07-2008, 07:54 PM
Not sure exactly what you are after there, but I'm guessing you mean this; the metal bracket that connects to the armrest, it's different between the PW and non-PW doors. This is the bit that the screws in the armrest screw into, the PW one is shorter than the non-PW one. Can't miss it, it's the only metal bracket screwed onto the door under the trim, and yes it's one of the few things that IS different and required.
GoTRICE
31-07-2008, 08:14 PM
Not sure exactly what you are after there, but I'm guessing you mean this; the metal bracket that connects to the armrest, it's different between the PW and non-PW doors. This is the bit that the screws in the armrest screw into, the PW one is shorter than the non-PW one. Can't miss it, it's the only metal bracket screwed onto the door under the trim, and yes it's one of the few things that IS different and required.
exactly what i wanted thanks!!!
[TUFFTR]
20-12-2008, 02:52 PM
Question.
Right hand front window.
Green/yellow is one of the earth wires...
But it shouldnt be getting 12v even if no buttons are being pressed yes?
This is to help out someone, not for me.
RoGuE_StreaK
20-12-2008, 05:15 PM
Don't quote me on it, not really in an analytical mindset at the moment, but I think that might mean the left front "down" button is shorting out? (ie. acting as if it's pressed?)
GoTRICE
21-12-2008, 09:59 AM
Don't quote me on it, not really in an analytical mindset at the moment, but I think that might mean the left front "down" button is shorting out? (ie. acting as if it's pressed?)
my car.
Anyway would it not be showing this if it was shorting on the chassis??
juzo87
25-04-2011, 04:12 PM
Hey man how did go with this, still working good, know someone with a Magna sitting doing nothing that has them and wanna put them I'm my tr exec
GoTRICE
26-04-2011, 09:32 AM
Mine still work. Run an extra relay to ensure they get adequate power.
(man i sound noob in my old posts)
juzo87
26-04-2011, 11:33 AM
Lol, yeah this Guy I know has a Magna se sitting doing nothing (in direct sunlight) , and he not sure what he going with it, trying to get it off him so I could steal parts from it haha
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