Few week backs, tried a half tank of the shell E10 in my KJ verada (topped up when tank was half way with normal unleaded so I guess you could call it E5!!).

Was amazed how much nicer the car ran, seem to pick up more bottom end torque and idled smoothly. Then the following week, filled up with normal unleaded and noticed the car dropped off in performance. So again this week, filled up with e10 when the tank was half way, and performance is up. Seems better than when I run it on Premium!!

Don't know the long term effects, but the car seems to run nicer with E10 although I probably won't try it on a full tank basis, just keep mixing it on 50:50 basis.

Anybody else tried the E10?

there has been a few threads on this and E10 is good for cars fitted with a knock sensor i know the 2nd gen have them [will increase kw and also torque] but i know that the third gen dont have one maybe because your putting 50/50 in your tank it burns more efficently but dont think it would do alot for overal kw and torque

Thats my understanding on it anyway

mitsubishi told me to steer clear of shell E10... something to do with it coroding bits of the engine. From what I understand, to safely use fuel high in ethenol you need some slight modifications?

Alcohol won't corrode parts of the engine, but it may (in high concentrations) disolve parts of the fuel system.

Alcohol won't corrode parts of the engine, but it may (in high concentrations) disolve parts of the fuel system.

in high, that means more than what you get with E10. E10 is safe for car use, will not corrode your ALLOY engine, will clean it most probably.

Anyone who says 'stay away from ethanol blends' should stick to golf or knitting, whatever they know better than cars because they're pure idiots.

I stay clear of it because its been shown to lean out your AFRs considerably, and I don't like the idea of driving around with the risk if running too lean, especially since I like to take mine to the track every couple of months.

IMO if you're gonna run ethanol blend, you should get a dyno run to make sure your AFRs are still safe. Just because you aren't hearing pinging, that doesn't mean you aren't getting detonation.

When I get a retune with the emanage, I'll consider getting a tune on E10, as there are some nice gains to be made if you tune specifically for it. However I'm not sure of the availability of it in my area, I don't wanto have to travel too much out of my way just to fill up.

i ran the 98 octane ethanol in my vitara all the time and advanced the timing, and after the first tank i felt the placebo effect of better economy and performance then several tanks later i ran some ultimate through it for 2 tanks and then again i felt the placebo effect again of even better economy and performance (this was the case!) after switching back to the 98rom ethanol it was using 1.5-2.5L/100km more than on a normal fuel.

the difference is that on the ethanol same ron as ultimate it was far far cheaper... and after running 10 tanks through my car atleast on ethanol, it became harder to start and required a new needle and seat (not saying this is due to the fuel)

above info was on a carby car...

Anyone who says 'stay away from ethanol blends' should stick to golf or knitting, whatever they know better than cars because they're pure idiots.

You must have some nice woollen jumpers and a low handicap

heres something that may back uo andrewd's post. http://www.aclassmetal.com.au/auto.htm
It is also why at most fuel stations the E10 pumps are nickel plated as by stated someone who installs them(neighbour) unlike the normal unleaded.

it is probably ok if you have the car short term, but i know i need mine for a long time. The cleaning properties are good tho and it probably cleans all the gunge out of the old unleaded tanks, which in turn ends up in our cars...... Use it at a new servo.

I am taking a conservative approach and running it on a half tank basis by mixing it with regular unleaded. The car is running a whole lot better with it (no placebo here, torque response is up) and infact seems to have done wonders for the my 3rd gen rough idle syndrome.

I've run the United 98RON Unleaded which is an Ethanol blend in my magna for ages and had no issues.

Ethanol is only an issue when it high concentrations and there is Federal Legislation limiting Ethanol to no higher than 10%.

Ethanol Use : List of Vehicles
Capability Of Vehicles To Satisfactorily Operate On Ethanol Blend Petrol (10% Or E10 Maximum)
Vehicle manufacturers and importers have provided the following information on the capability of their vehicles to operate on ethanol fuel blends up to a maximum of 10% or E10. Subject to the fuel meeting the octane requirements of the vehicle and complying with relevant mandatory Australian fuel quality standards.

The Commonwealth Government has limited the level of ethanol in petrol in Australia to a maximum of 10%.

Before use of E10 in motor vehicles not listed below, you should consult your handbook or manufacturer, to check if the fuel is suitable.

Motor Vehicles

Australian Automobile Manufacturers

Holden
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Ford
All Falcon petrol engine vehicles since 1998 will operate satisfactorily on E10. Please contact your local dealer for information on which other Ford vehicles can operate on E10.

Mitsubishi
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Mitsubishi vehicles with carburetor fuel systems built before 1991 may experience hot fuel handling concerns and may experience a lower level of durability in some fuel system components.

Toyota
All petrol engine vehicles since 2000 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Most petrol engine vehicles since 1992 will operate satisfactorily on E10

Except the following models that do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel.
Supra (1988-1993), Cresida (1988-1993), Camry (1987-1989), Corolla (1989-1995),
Paseo (1991-1999), Starlet (1996-1999), Land Cruiser (1990-1992), 4Runner (1988-1997), Hiace (1989-97), Tarago (1982-1986), Townace (1996-1998), Hilux (1988-1997), Coaster (1982-1993) and Dyna (1987-1995).

Vehicle Importers

Alfa Romeo
Vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Audi
1.8Lt A3 (2000 onwards) and 2.0Lt A4 (2001 onwards) vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

All other Audi vehicle models since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Bentley
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

BMW
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Citroen
Citroen do not recommend the use of ethanol blend petrol.

Chrysler
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Daewoo
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Daihatsu
Please contact the Daihatsu call centre on &.. for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Honda
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Honda do not recommend it.

Hyundai
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Ferrari
Vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10 in emergency situations only, when other fuels are not available.

Jaguar
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Kia
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Land Rover
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Lexus
Pre May 2002 IS200/300 vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

All other petrol engine vehicles since 1989 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Maserati
Vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10 in emergency situations only, when other fuels are not available.

Mazda
Mazda2 (2003 onwards), 323 (1994 onwards), Premacy (2000 onwards), Mazda6 (2002 onwards), 800 (1999 onwards), RX-8 (2003 onwards), MPV (1999 onwards), Tribute (2001 onwards), E-series (2002 onwards) and T-series (2001 onwards) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

All other models not listed above do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Mercedes-Benz
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

MG
MGF (1995-2002), MG ZT(2000 onward) and MG TF(2002 onward) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Nissan
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Peugeot
Please contact the Peugeot call centre on &.. for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Proton
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Rover
Rover 75 (2000 onwards) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Renault
All petrol engine vehicles since 2001 will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Renault to not recommend its use

Rolls Royce
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 until 2002 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Saab
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Subaru
Liberty B4 (all year models) and Impreza WRX STI (1999 and 2000) do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

All other since 1986 petrol engine Subaru vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Suzuki
Alto, Mighty Boy, Wagon R+, Swift (Cino), Ignis (2003), Sierra, Stockman, Vitara, X-90, Jimny (1998-2000) and Carry (1985-1998) vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10.

Suzuki Baleno and Baleno GTX will operate satisfactorily on E10 but Suzuki do not recommend its use in these vehicles.

Ignis (2000-2002), Liana, Grand Vitara, Carry (1999-2000) vehicles will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Volkswagen
Please contact your local dealer for information on which vehicles can operate on E10.

Volvo
All petrol engine vehicles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Motor Cycles

Before use of E10 in motorcycles not listed below, you should consult your handbook or manufacturer to check if the fuel is suitable.

BMW
All motorcycles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Harley Davidson
All motorcycles since 1986 will operate satisfactorily on E10.

Yamaha
All motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles do not operate satisfactorily on E10 fuel.

Source: Prime Minister's department - Ethanol Working Group

3rd gen rough idle syndrome.

aka stuffed idle control valve, the OEM units are prone to failure, most likely this is your problem. Get yourself a new/rebuilt one. You can get aftermarket ones that are of a better design than the OEM unit, and cheapers.

I ran my Sports on E10 for ages, and our TJ Sports ran awesome on it. Then when I converted to gas, I wasn't using petrol as much, and now my injectors are blocked, and on petrol the car runs VERY rich and splutters (Injectors getting cleaned, and fuel filter is getting replaced next week)

What I have heard however is that if you use E10 - make sure you regularly use your car. If your car is going to be stored for more than a week, don't use E10 as it blocks stuff up? Not sure exactly what it blocks up - but thats what I've been told.

Oscar

I thought another issue was water being soluble in ethanol. Its not in petrol, so ethanol:petrol blends can act as a vehicle for bringing increases water into your engine. Also wheels did an article on ethanol ages ago. While Ethanol blends have a higher octane rating (bigger bang, i.e. more explosive?), they give less energy per explosion than petrol. So you need to use slightly more of it to get the same power. As the ethanol percentage increases, this becomes more of an issue. What I can't understand is, if ethanol is so good, why are we using petrol? Brazil has been on flexifuel for years

http://www.vw.com.br/NovoSite/ see the kombi page
http://www.chevrolet.com.br Several flexfuel cars here

The technology is not new. They must have found a solution for the problems we are mentioning here. What it seems like is not all of our cars sold here are engineered for it. I want to run my car into the ground, so I want it to last. I'm concerned E10 is going to shorten that time compared to using petrol

I decided to give E10 another go as there is a recently opened servo near my old servo of choice where it's something like 4-6cents cheaper than ULP and has had E10 from the start, so there shouldn't be issues with it cleaning out old ULP tanks and putting that into my car.

Once strange thing I noticed yesterday though was that I was now keeping an eye on my average fuel comsumption driving to/from work to see whether I get better mileage out of E10 and at one point it read 5.5l/100km! I tried to take a photo as I couldn't believe it but the screen was too bright in the camera phone lense. Never seen that happen before. Maybe the E10 fuel is playing with the computer. There is also increased performance as well though, particulary from take off.

I decided to give E10 another go as there is a recently opened servo near my old servo of choice where it's something like 4-6cents cheaper than ULP

Once strange thing I noticed yesterday though was that I was now keeping an eye on my average fuel comsumption driving to/from work to see whether I get better mileage out of E10 and at one point it read 5.5l/100km!

There is also increased performance as well

The problem is ethanol is much less calorie-dense, so while you save a few cents per L, you are also burning more. In the end you really aren't saving much, you need to burn more fuel to make the same amount of energy.

My instant fuel consumptions often reads 0.0 when I coast down a hill, and around 5L/100 if I'm cruising really gently down a slight slope. It means nothing. go to WOT and watch it read like 40L/100km.

Performance increase? Placebo effect mate, simply not possible, most likely you are losing a few kws over ULP. Although if you get a retune for E10, you can pick up a bit of power even over 98 RON petrol. Basically you bump up fueling across the board, and then you can dial in more ignition timing without detonation.

But how about the environment side of things?

Isn't it environmentally friendly to use E10?

The problem is ethanol is much less calorie-dense, so while you save a few cents per L, you are also burning more. In the end you really aren't saving much, you need to burn more fuel to make the same amount of energy.

My instant fuel consumptions often reads 0.0 when I coast down a hill, and around 5L/100 if I'm cruising really gently down a slight slope. It means nothing. go to WOT and watch it read like 40L/100km.

Performance increase? Placebo effect mate, simply not possible, most likely you are losing a few kws over ULP. Although if you get a retune for E10, you can pick up a bit of power even over 98 RON petrol. Basically you bump up fueling across the board, and then you can dial in more ignition timing without detonation.

Same here, but this was the average fuel comsumption reading which usually hovers around 9-11l/100km. That's why the 5.5 reading suprised me because I was driving around 60kph on a main arterial road in Sydney. Thought it might have been the E10 affecting its accuracy.

shell v-power racing (the 100ron stuff) has a 5% ethanol in it, and i haven't heard any of the skyline guys complain about it. i know some have found it leans the mixture out slightly (by maybe 0.5:1). but one guy did extensive testing, cutting his old fuel filters open, etc and found no trace of any hoses perishing or any ill affects. he even opened his motor up and found no dramas with it.

Put it this way; we need to ween ourselves off fossil fuels. Not gonna last forever, plus we are dependant on other countries for it. This is one small step in the right direction. Sure there are problems associated with growing the crops etc., but we don't have to wait a few million years for the end product, and it's pretty-much a plug-'n'-play fuel, don't need to completely replace the engines or buy new cars.

I can live with losing the odd kW if it means a move towards cleaner, renewable fuel sources.