just need some help with so basic audio tuning... i have played around with it and it sounds good to me... but any assistance is good

my setup

pioneer ...8650 h/u
response 4X50w bridged to 2 ch
response splits
response mono running in 1ohm powering some subs
12's in sealed enclosures


anyway front splits, amp is set to full range zero setting on the gains, hu set to filter 100hz 12db slope can set it at 53 60 80 100 125 200 pass hz and the slope at 6 12 18db

the subs are set with no gains or bass boost 40hz on the lph on amp

hu settings 80hz 12db slope
other settings on hu as above

also has h/u equalizer fully customizeable... set to flat atm

any reccomendations

I have the same deck and what I currently have it set on:

Fronts HP @ 63Hz 12db/oct ( Boston SL-60's )
Rear HP @ 160Hz 12db/oct ( Stock Splits )
Sub LP @ 100Hz 18db/oct ( Boston G5 )

EQ is flat with the top 4 @ -1. ( 3.5kHz, 6kHz, 8kHz, 12.5kHz I think.. ) and the rest at 0.

The only other thing is the Fade is on Front 18. I have not mucked around on the Time Alignment or anything yet. You have to remember though that every car is different. Just tune it how you like it and remember to keep all boost functions off. :D

regarding the boost function miine has this loud setting, and some people tell me not to use it cos it runs the risk of blowing my speakers is this true? sorry to take over ya thread

regarding the boost function miine has this loud setting, and some people tell me not to use it cos it runs the risk of blowing my speakers is this true? sorry to take over ya thread

Yes. Think of it this way, whatever your amp is rated at, is all the power it is going to make before it starts to clip. If you have say a 200WRMS amp, how soon it will make that will be determined by the input voltage. The way you control this is by adjusting the gain on the amp.

So now you have tuned your stereo and your amp is making is 200WRMS and then you add +3db of bass boost. You are effectively asking the amp to produce 400WRMS and the only way it can do this is by distorting the signal. If turned up to much, the square clipped signal will be sent and thermal failure of your speakers will shortly follow ( along with a nasty nasty smell ).

Me gotz da 8650MP too!!!

I have the front sets at 80Hz/12dB High pass (-2 gain)
Rear set at 160Hz/12dB High pass (-3 gain)
Subwoofers are at 100Hz/18dB Low pass (gain 0 )

I used the TA to work out the approx. settings and then I tuned it a bit more to get it even better than the auto TA could do. I took note of the Auto EQ but I decided not to use it, as it fails to account for things which will affect the overall eq. For example, most ppl will have the fronts louder than the rear, but the auto EQ sets the response for flat with all speakers at the same amplitude, the mic is not omnidirectional, so any little angle diff from the mic to the speakers will affect its EQ. Also, whn you look at the bar graph of the auto EQ, it shows you the OVERALL response... It doesn't show you if it has set the rear speakers with completely different EQs to the front, and if you do fade the rears out, the EQ will be out of whack..

The best auto EQ results (when compared to a spectrum analyser) that I managed (which were still a little out) was when I mounted the microphone in the centre of the roof facing directly forward and down at a 45 degree angle. I disconnected the rear speakers so they would'nt be included in the EQ process also... I then used a custom TA to set the correct locations for the speakers later on....

In the end I didn't use the auto EQ, as it put a fair amount of gain on the pre amps (similar to loud mode).

At the moment I've got the EQ relatively flat, with a slight attenuation at 3K onwards (pretty much like Mr ©harisma). This seems good for my Bostons...

One thing I can tell you for sure (because I measured it myself!!) is that the SQ of the 8650MP is awesome. It can put out an unclipped signal at top volume (40) on the RCAs (6.5VRMS), provided that:
* none of the EQ settings are above +1, (yep you have +1 EQ to play with)
* the auto EQ is off,
* loud is off,
* all the channel gains are at 0 (or less)
* the SLA is set at 0
* BBE is off

With the speaker outputs its another story.... A 0dB 100Hz (or under) signal distorts at volume levels above 33. Normal CDs are recorded at -3dB, so I wouldn't take the volume past 35 if using the speaker outs, or... do what I did (on my rear speakers) and set the channel gains at -3, which will enable you to go up to 40 on the volume scale with 100Hz/12dB high pass without ANY internal amplifier distortion , with a -3dB recorded CD (most CDs).

Not many H.U.s can boast an undistorted signal with full volume, so I thought it rated a mention.... Also, the test I did used 0dB sine waves, so be assured that it is impossible to make a CD that will be louder than the one's I used in the test...

If ya want to use the BBE, the h.u. will start to distort some signals at around 35 upwards on the volume knob (BBE set at 0). Loudness makes the H.U. start to clip at about the same as the BBE does. The Auto EQ can be just as bad (depending on the resultant EQ)... So as long as you only use one enhancement at a time and don't go past 35 volume, it should be o.k. (pre-amp wise)...

:redface: HEY!!!! I was bored o.k.???!!!

thanks for the tips... i have played around a lil bit...

but im thinking of an overhaul when i sell the magna... possibly just keeping the hu and the wiring lol

new front amp new front splits and new subs.... the mono can stay for now

Yeah mine goes up to 37/40 safely due to the Audison Amps only being able to accept a maximum of 5V. Its pretty insain to have the big SRx2s at 3/4 gain on 37 off the 6.5V and listening to the G5 not only cope, but love it. I really like the unit.:D

Me gotz da 8650MP too!!!

One thing I can tell you for sure (because I measured it myself!!) is that the SQ of the 8650MP is awesome. It can put out an unclipped signal at top volume (40) on the RCAs (6.5VRMS), provided that:
* none of the EQ settings are above +1, (yep you have +1 EQ to play with)
* the auto EQ is off,
* loud is off,
* all the channel gains are at 0 (or less)
* the SLA is set at 0
* BBE is off

With the speaker outputs its another story.... A 0dB 100Hz (or under) signal distorts at volume levels above 33. Normal CDs are recorded at -3dB, so I wouldn't take the volume past 35 if using the speaker outs, or... do what I did (on my rear speakers) and set the channel gains at -3, which will enable you to go up to 40 on the volume scale with 100Hz/12dB high pass without ANY internal amplifier distortion , with a -3dB recorded CD (most CDs).

Not many H.U.s can boast an undistorted signal with full volume, so I thought it rated a mention.... Also, the test I did used 0dB sine waves, so be assured that it is impossible to make a CD that will be louder than the one's I used in the test...



Provided you are using 0dB gains on any sound eq/DSP/loudness/bass-boost settings, etc., generally, clipping will occur in the Power amp stage, NOT the pre-amp stage (ie; as in the RCA outputs you were testing). A 0dB EQ gain "should" mean that the source signal (ie; CD, radio, etc) hasn't been altered.




Yes. Think of it this way, whatever your amp is rated at, is all the power it is going to make before it starts to clip. If you have say a 200WRMS amp, how soon it will make that will be determined by the input voltage. The way you control this is by adjusting the gain on the amp.

So now you have tuned your stereo and your amp is making is 200WRMS and then you add +3db of bass boost. You are effectively asking the amp to produce 400WRMS and the only way it can do this is by distorting the signal. If turned up to much, the square clipped signal will be sent and thermal failure of your speakers will shortly follow ( along with a nasty nasty smell ).


A "TRUE" loudness function should drop off to 0dB at around 60% volume. It is intended to boost low-end frequencies at low volumes to compensate for the characteristics of human hearing (ie; our hearing isn't linear...it's logarithmic !!!).

Provided you are using 0dB gains on any sound eq/DSP/loudness/bass-boost settings, etc., generally, clipping will occur in the Power amp stage, NOT the pre-amp stage (ie; as in the RCA outputs you were testing). A 0dB EQ gain "should" mean that the source signal (ie; CD, radio, etc) hasn't been altered.




A "TRUE" loudness function should drop off to 0dB at around 60% volume. It is intended to boost low-end frequencies at low volumes to compensate for the characteristics of human hearing (ie; our hearing isn't linear...it's logarithmic !!!).

To ge picky, it has been proven that the std Pioneer decks with the 2.2V preout's that go up to 62 will actually begin clipping at around the 35-40 mark with everything on 0 through the RCA. That is really picky and I ran mine at 50 before I got the 8650mp.

The problem with loudness when running an amp is that the deck wont know what you have your gains set to, if they are to high, it wont matter if it gets to 60% or not before thermal meltdown...

To ge picky, it has been proven that the std Pioneer decks with the 2.2V preout's that go up to 62 will actually begin clipping at around the 35-40 mark with everything on 0 through the RCA. That is really picky and I ran mine at 50 before I got the 8650mp.

The problem with loudness when running an amp is that the deck wont know what you have your gains set to, if they are to high, it wont matter if it gets to 60% or not before thermal meltdown...


If you're amp is going into thermal shutdown at 60% volume (even with loudness, etc on), then you either have the gains on your amp set too high, or there isn't enough air-flow around the amp.

I have no doubt that they do....it all depends on the pre-amp of the head-unit....sorry...I wasn't referring to Pioneer specifically! In the OP, I said that generally 0dB setting SHOULD mean that the signal source isn't being altered! Therefore if the deck has a decent pre-amp, it shouldn't clip the signal.

If you're amp is going into thermal shutdown at 60% volume (even with loudness, etc on), then you either have the gains on your amp set too high, or there isn't enough air-flow around the amp.

I have no doubt that they do....it all depends on the pre-amp of the head-unit....sorry...I wasn't referring to Pioneer specifically! In the OP, I said that generally 0dB setting SHOULD mean that the signal source isn't being altered! Therefore if the deck has a decent pre-amp, it shouldn't clip the signal.

The amp doesn't go into thermal shutdown, thermal meltdown is where you melt the crap out of your voice coil because you send it a prolonged square sine wave, it gets hot, melts and you get a nasty nasty smell!! Loud function = bad. If you have decent power and an accurate front stage you shouldn't need to use loud.:D

Just to clear things up....

I'm sorry if I've been a bit vague :doubt: The test source I was refering to was a set of tones recorded onto a CD at a level of 0dB. That is, the waveform used was at the maximum amplitude possible to be able to be recorded onto a CD.

Because there is often rumour and speculation, as well as common myths associated with a lot of info. on home & car audio, I prefer to test these things for myself to avoid all the hype...

The information I provided earlier wasn't gathered from net scavenging, or listening to other peoples rantings...
I made my findings by using these pieces of equipment (as seen below).

http://www.lavendergreenooaks.com/BEN/Test%20equip.jpg

The "thing" on the left is a multifunction tone gen/distortion analyser, and on the right is an digitizing oscilloscope. I used the oscilloscope to measure and display the resultant waveform from the RCAs, and from the speaker outputs in order to see (and display) when the various outputs reached their respective maximum "non clipped" signal outputs.

The oscilloscope I used can give a real time analysis of peak,RMS,DC bias, blah, blah characteristics which can be transfered to a laptop for comparison to a dedicated tone gen (as seen). The tone gen can also "lock" onto a signal (provided by the H.U.) and display phase shifts from different functions in the H.U. being used (which is what is being shown in the pic I took above). It's easy to see using this stuff when clipping occurs, how much noise is introduced, how much TA is needed to fix a filter being empolyed, and how much distortion BBE, LOUD function, and EQ settings affect the waveforms produced by the 8650MP.
The "stuff" I was talking about earlier was based on the use of this equipment, not common assumptions from other ppl... :blah: :blah:

P.S. Does anyone have any .LKA or .LKD files ta share???? I gotz lotz!!! :)
one I made from "the Creeps"" video (http://www.lavendergreenooaks.com/BEN/the%20creeps.lkd)
You'll need the Pioneer OEL Studio (http://pioneer.jp/car/pclink3a/index-e.html) software to use it...