I have already been asking question over several different threads and felt I should probably post a new thread and continue from there. After all who would look in a thread about FWD to AWD conversion for supercharger info? http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50585

I have a Ralliart Magna #437. I am getting a Sprintex supercharger installed and I am trying to get the most out of the motor without damage or loss of reliability. I am also trying to avoid a lot of the complication of water/meth injection or intercoolers. So I would like to know the most boost that a Ralliart Motor can take without the chance of damage or extra wear (I will stick with Sprintex Stock boost for at least 12 months). I have read in other threads that 7-10psi is ok for stock magna internals. As I understand it the Ralliart motor has forged pistons/better rings and worked heads with an aggressive cam plus a remapped ECU to match and SS extractors and a 2.5" exhaust system. It has been suggested to stick with stock boost as anymore boost increases the intake temperatures too much and require engine mods (which the ralliart already have) or cooling hence the water/meth injection or intercooler which I would rather not have to do. I have seen products somewhere (not sure what they are called) that look like fat metal gasket, almost 1/2" thick. Made of weird alloys that are supposed to cool the intake, even a couple of degrees would help.

From several peoples posts I have come to the conclusion that the Mitsubishi ECU is a great ECU and the idea of a piggyback ECU questionable. So with all the features of the Stock ECU I would rather not replace it for a full replacement ECU as I also have an auto.

Now, I think it was "Andrewd" that said he disconnected his piggyback ECU and hence the 7th injector and the Sprintex system didn't miss a beat. "Sports" said his 7th injector did nothing and his 6 normal injectors ran at about 65% output. Also "Chisholm" mentions that the use of a 7th injector is an archaic way of getting around the increased fuel demands of the supercharger and causes some cylinders to run lean, suggesting bigger injectors instead. So what I was thinking of doing is increasing the size of the injectors to say Mitsubishi 380 injectors (if they fit) to allow for the increased fuel demand and better spray pattern. The question then becomes, would the stock ECU be able to handle the increased airflow and fuel requirements (probably as indicated by Andrewd's post)? I also read Chisholm's post about Barry's Grounding Kit, Fuel Rail Kit and Plenum Gasket Kit. Just need to find out where to get them. I have a K&N air filter installed and a hiclone.

Down the track when the warranty is out and the ECU software is readily available I can then retune the Mitsubishi ECU for optimal gains.

I hear there is a thursday night social, where abouts is it and what time?

oakie doakie.

If you want to up the boost from standard, you will need to replace all 6 injectors. Delphia make a 500cc unit that will fit. Ebay $77 each
Now, this does not guarantee that the motor will not break. Ralliarts do not come with forged pistons just higher compression pistons and they do break because i broke mine.
Water/methanol injection is a good idea as it keeps temps down, consistant and raises your octane. A 20 litre drum of methanol should last you about a year.

One of the biggest (in my personal opinion) issues with the Sprintex unit is that fact that it's not intercooled. Since it's a pretty tight package, it's easy to see why Sprintex didn't do it. The additional injector is most likely there to cool the blower, as fuel absorbs heat, reducing the chances of detonation.

As TZABOY said, the Ralliart doesn't run forged pistons, it runs a higher compression piston, at 9.4:1. The stock Magna engine runs 9.0:1, which would actually be preferable, as you can cram more air into the cylinders, without running the risk of detonation.

As TZABOY said, the Ralliart doesn't run forged pistons, it runs a higher compression piston, at 9.4:1. The stock Magna engine runs 9.0:1, which would actually be preferable, as you can cram more air into the cylinders, without running the risk of detonation.
im retaining the 9.4:1 compression on my new pistons, but with bigger injectors and a proper cooling setup it will be safe. I really doubt you can go more than 10-11psi as it seem that is the max flow of the s/c and the max revs of the bearings

im retaining the 9.4:1 compression on my new pistons, but with bigger injectors and a proper cooling setup it will be safe. I really doubt you can go more than 10-11psi as it seem that is the max flow of the s/c and the max revs of the bearings


Actually the charger can go to 14psi, according to sprintex's little excel program that they've got on theyre site.

oakie doakie.

If you want to up the boost from standard, you will need to replace all 6 injectors. Delphia make a 500cc unit that will fit. Ebay $77 each
Now, this does not guarantee that the motor will not break. Ralliarts do not come with forged pistons just higher compression pistons and they do break because i broke mine.
Water/methanol injection is a good idea as it keeps temps down, consistant and raises your octane. A 20 litre drum of methanol should last you about a year.

Right-O, sorry about the forged pistons, my mistake. I was using http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_55022/title_Ralliart%20Magna%20Blasts%20onto%20Scene/newsarticle.html as a resource, but I don't know where I got forged from.

So, what is the max "safe" boost with unforged pistons? Actually I should also have added that I only use BP ultimate petrol. So increasing the octane is not a high priority with the water/meth injection. I am more worried about the max "safe" temperature, but that said I would rather run less boost than install water/meth injection, as long as the stock ECU can handle the air/fuel flows. It is all a question of whether the stock ECU is upto the task of running the engine with the supercharger and 6, not 7, injectors.

Also does anyone have any idea if the stock ECU can handle the supercharger without the 7th injector? Andrewd says he disconnected his piggyback ECU and hence the 7th injector (from one of his posts) and says it works, I would just like to see if others have tried it as well. His motor might have been an execption to the rule of explosion. I was planning to use the 380's injectors if I can find out if they fit, although Sports posted saying that the normal injectors were only running at about 65% with the 7th injector not doing much. Might be different in high boost situations, but the 380's injectors should cover that.

I hope I am making sense, I seem to be tripping over myself alot, in my head anyway. I also have some cool spark plugs coming from the US, hence my avatar picture, designed for supercharged engines with stock ignition systems (Brisk DOR14LGS-T).

I'm only going to say this once.

If you aren't interested in installing any form of intercooling, or modifying the engine internals - then do not even entertain the idea of upping the boost on the S/C. You mentioned the word reliable in your first post, and I can tell you from experience that "reliable" and "forced induction" don't go together in the magna world.

Having said that, there are probably a reasonable percentage of sprintex customers who have not experienced any issues with the kit, because they are happy with the power, and have no desire to squeeze "more out of the engine".

Also - A factory magna ECU will not handle ANY BOOST without having the tune modified. So far, no one has successfully been able to re-tune a factory ECU although a few claim it is possible. Your only options for engine management are: Sprintex ECU (which is a locked "piggyback" style unit), a programmable Piggyback ecu (emanage, haltech interceptor etc) or a full replacement ECU (god knows how you will get that to work with your auto TCU).

Theres a few questions here...

Sprintex ECU is a Perfect Power SMT6 - it measures the intake air temperature with a ($30commodore - I know, I had to replace one) AIC, and measures manifold pressure, as well as your oxygen sensor (a working 02 sensor is critical BTW) to set the mixtures at 13:1 ON BOOST. It adjusts the ignition advance by modifying the crank angle sensor output to the ECU, and also runs the extra injector to provide fuel enrichment on boost. Mixtures are kept at a sane level with a functioning 02 sensor. This is a perfectly reasonable way to do this.

The reason why the extra injector is installed is to cool the intake charge, and increase the sealing of the supercharger. Most people bag the whole idea of an extra injector being archaic blah blah BUT they are comparing the old school trick of just sticking an injector into the intake piping of a turbo (post turbo).

This would result in differing mixtures per cyl - bad. But before a compressor that generates large amounts of heat - good idea - fuel is totally vaporised by the heat and well mixed. Seals up the SC rotors and can help to increase boost. Its just a storm in a teacup. Single point fuel injection has worked in production cars just fine. Old pulsars ran it. Sheesh.

Most peoples problems have occurred when they lean out the mixtures and or increase advance to get more power. No suprises there. Water injection would safely control detonation and allow you to run more advance. Intercooling with a front mount is possible, but inlet paths would become so long and convoluted that the car would lose drivability. Water to air - possible, but pricey.

Sparkplugs specified by Sprintex are IRIWAY7's or their direct equivalent BKR7EIX. You could use BKR7EIX-11's at a pinch, but their gap is 1.1mm - BKR7EIX is 0.8mm - the smaller gap reduces the possibility of misfiring on boost. IRIWAY 7's are about $25-30 per plug, you can get BKR7EIX's at $12.95 each on ebay - its your choice :)

The phenolic spacer you described to reduce IAT's isn't going to work for a few reasons - it raises the manifold too high, and it only reduces a heatsoak from the engine to manifold. The SC produces heaps of heat, and the SC manifold has a huge thermal mass, so good luck with that approach :)

As to the stock ECU - it will work with boost, but far too lean. Andrewd said his tuner was running the kit on the standard ECU on the dyno. I would have put my foot up the tuners proverbial for even trying but thats just me.

I'm installing one at the moment, and I am quite familiar with the construction of the kit now.

Cheers
Heath Young

Thanks Black Beard. So, I stick with 7.3psi, or whatever it actually is, from Sprintex. I remember reading a post about someone removing the drive pulley and putting a 10.5psi one on (from sprintex) and the rear of the old stock pulley had 7.3psi stamped on it.

So heathyoung, you do not recommend the removal of the 7th injector and putting in 6 bigger injectors (sourced from a 380)? Wouldn't the 7th injector’s fuel potentially condense on the internals of the supercharger (the cooler side) then vaporise due to the heat? Wouldn't that cause intermittent lean/rich cycles at higher RPM? Just cannot get it out of my head that the same two cylinders failed on everyone's motors.

Ok, so the phenolic spacer (what a word to remember), I was just grasping at straws, remembered reading about them, not sure how good they were.

Next question, is how if at all possible (as some posts state) can I get the Sprintex on stock boost to run on my stock ECU without running lean? As Black Beard mentioned, it would be nigh impossible to get a full replacement ECU that could handle my Auto's TCU. What about increasing the fuel pressure (via high pressure fuel pump or changing the pressure return valve on the fuel rail) to trick the ECU into delivering more fuel than it's programmed for? As far as the ECU would be concerned it would still be within parameters but dosing bucket loads more (well extra in any case). Wouldn't that also be the same for an oversized injector? Not having to be open for as long but dosing more fuel? Plus there is the added benifit of the improved spray pattern of the 380's injectors, almost atomising the fuel. Might even need a 380's fuel pump (if it will fit)

What I am trying to do is find a way around the piggy back ECU, via any means possible. The reason is, is when the Mitsubishi software comes out to be able to reprogram the stock ECU, I do not want to then remove the piggy back ECU, to return to the stock ECU (which from many posts, is an awesome ECU in it's own right). I would rather have not installed the piggy back ECU in the first place. Now hopefully it is as simple as putting 380 injectors in, maybe even upping the pressure on the fuel rail.

With the spark plugs, I have done "some" research into these, when I friend bought his Mustang and started restoring it, I had a look at Brisk Spark Plugs, developed in conjunction with Lamborghini. The BKR7EIX-11 (which is the Iridium IX version of the Ralliart magna's factory plugs) but one temp rating cooler (hence the 7 instead of the 6). For some reason the Standard and VR-X 3.5l Magna run a hotter plug (5 instead of 6). Anyway, I read somewhere that for each increase of 75-100HP the plugs need to be one rating cooler. So my Ralliart plugs (BKR6E-11) converted to Brisk are DOR15LGS then I cool them one temp rating to DOR14LGS (Brisk go downward, NGK go upwards) and finally, as you mentioned, reduce the gap to prevent misfire, they become DOR14LGS-T. Interestingly enough Brisk only do one reduced gap spark plug and that is the DOR14LGS-T. There's a picture of the LGS plugs firing as my Avatar.

As Black Beard mentioned, it would be nigh impossible to get a full replacement ECU that could handle my Auto's TCU.

You can ran a full aftermarket ECU to control all the engine operation, at the same time retaining the standard ECU to control all the other cars functions including the Auto transmission.

Thanks Black Beard. So, I stick with 7.3psi, or whatever it actually is, from Sprintex. I remember reading a post about someone removing the drive pulley and putting a 10.5psi one on (from sprintex) and the rear of the old stock pulley had 7.3psi stamped on it.

So heathyoung, you do not recommend the removal of the 7th injector and putting in 6 bigger injectors (sourced from a 380)? Wouldn't the 7th injector’s fuel potentially condense on the internals of the supercharger (the cooler side) then vaporise due to the heat? Wouldn't that cause intermittent lean/rich cycles at higher RPM? Just cannot get it out of my head that the same two cylinders failed on everyone's motors.


Unlikely considering the temperatures at the SC for condensation, possible at very low intake temperatures, but unlikely.

Sprintex did a whole lot of durability testing and I'm getting the feeling that people are a little too quick to criticise the design - that as stock works just fine.



Next question, is how if at all possible (as some posts state) can I get the Sprintex on stock boost to run on my stock ECU without running lean? As Black Beard mentioned, it would be nigh impossible to get a full replacement ECU that could handle my Auto's TCU. What about increasing the fuel pressure (via high pressure fuel pump or changing the pressure return valve on the fuel rail) to trick the ECU into delivering more fuel than it's programmed for? As far as the ECU would be concerned it would still be within parameters but dosing bucket loads more (well extra in any case). Wouldn't that also be the same for an oversized injector? Not having to be open for as long but dosing more fuel? Plus there is the added benifit of the improved spray pattern of the 380's injectors, almost atomising the fuel. Might even need a 380's fuel pump (if it will fit)


Increased fuel pressure is possible with a rising rate (malpassi style) FPR but it is an inelegant solution to the problem.

Larger injectors need to be mapped otherwise you will be running too much fuel everywhere in the map - either by reducing the load sensor output etc with a piggyback, but everyone says dont run piggyback for reliability reasons.

You could increase the appearent load seen by the ECU on boost, then you would only affect parts of the curve that are relevent. The 65% duty cycle is interesting, you are not running out of injector headroom in this case. Larger injectors would be a waste of time.

People have been using unichips to run these supercharger kits as well - something to think about BUT you still have no knock sensor...



What I am trying to do is find a way around the piggy back ECU, via any means possible. The reason is, is when the Mitsubishi software comes out to be able to reprogram the stock ECU, I do not want to then remove the piggy back ECU, to return to the stock ECU (which from many posts, is an awesome ECU in it's own right). I would rather have not installed the piggy back ECU in the first place. Now hopefully it is as simple as putting 380 injectors in, maybe even upping the pressure on the fuel rail.


It isn't. They are a complicated bit of kit and no-one has cracked one of them yet (only a 2D in a TE IIRC) not the 3D unit that is in your ralliart.



With the spark plugs, I have done "some" research into these, when I friend bought his Mustang and started restoring it, I had a look at Brisk Spark Plugs, developed in conjunction with Lamborghini. The BKR7EIX-11 (which is the Iridium IX version of the Ralliart magna's factory plugs) but one temp rating cooler (hence the 7 instead of the 6). For some reason the Standard and VR-X 3.5l Magna run a hotter plug (5 instead of 6). Anyway, I read somewhere that for each increase of 75-100HP the plugs need to be one rating cooler. So my Ralliart plugs (BKR6E-11) converted to Brisk are DOR15LGS then I cool them one temp rating to DOR14LGS (Brisk go downward, NGK go upwards) and finally, as you mentioned, reduce the gap to prevent misfire, they become DOR14LGS-T. Interestingly enough Brisk only do one reduced gap spark plug and that is the DOR14LGS-T. There's a picture of the LGS plugs firing as my Avatar.

Yes, 1 step cooler. BKR6EIX-11 is used in Ralliart due to increased compression ratio. Standard VRX etc run a BKR5EIX-11 due to the fact that they run EGR and as a result suffer from fouling at lower temps. Early non-egr 3-3.5's ran BKR6EIX-11 plugs.

I suggested BKR7EIX as they are the same plug as Sprintex specify (aka IRIWAY7) right gap and temperature, as well as price. After driving European cars, I can strongly recommend getting something every mechanic can cross reference and source. Multi-gap plugs are a wank, people are running IRIWAY's in high-boost (25-30psi) Skylines, GTI-Rs etc. On a low boost engine - you are not going to blow out that spark unless your ignition system is very very sick.

Talk to Mitsuman if you are dead set on a full ECU - he does turbo kits etc.

And... If it aint broke... Dont fix it.

Cheers
Heath Young

Sprintex did a whole lot of durability testing and I'm getting the feeling that people are a little too quick to criticise the design - that as stock works just fine.
Not trying to criticise their design, only trying to simplify, even at the cost of performance. If I didn't like their kits, I wouldn't be buying one.


Increased fuel pressure is possible with a rising rate (malpassi style) FPR but it is an inelegant solution to the problem.

Larger injectors need to be mapped otherwise you will be running too much fuel everywhere in the map - either by reducing the load sensor output etc with a piggyback, but everyone says dont run piggyback for reliability reasons.

You could increase the apparent load seen by the ECU on boost, then you would only affect parts of the curve that are relevent. The 65% duty cycle is interesting, you are not running out of injector headroom in this case. Larger injectors would be a waste of time.
Well that is the nail on the head. I am trying to find an elegant solution to the piggy back dilema. The reason I was thinking of the larger injectors is that maybe the stock injector were running out of legs during boost application. It all comes down to air flow rate through the sensor then the injectors open up to give the right fuel ratio? Not entirely sure, it just sounded like the 7th injector was there to dose the additional that the normal injectors couldn't do. Please correct me if I am wrong. Also how would you "increase the apparent load seen by the ECU on boost"?


People have been using unichips to run these supercharger kits as well - something to think about BUT you still have no knock sensor...
I have heard about this knock sensor, but do not know it's function. Or where in the grand scheme of things it operates. I know what knock is but not what a knock sensor does.


It isn't. They are a complicated bit of kit and no-one has cracked one of them yet (only a 2D in a TE IIRC) not the 3D unit that is in your ralliart.
I was only reading posts that says the software will be out in several months.


I suggested BKR7EIX as they are the same plug as Sprintex specify (aka IRIWAY7) right gap and temperature, as well as price. After driving European cars, I can strongly recommend getting something every mechanic can cross reference and source. Multi-gap plugs are a wank, people are running IRIWAY's in high-boost (25-30psi) Skylines, GTI-Rs etc. On a low boost engine - you are not going to blow out that spark unless your ignition system is very very sick.
But the Brisk's look so cool, it is all about the function and the cool factor. Very few people have them over here. Not that they can see the inside my engine anyway.


And... If it aint broke... Dont fix it.
True enough, not trying to fix something that is broke, only improve/simplify an awesome piece of bolt-on. The car would never be where it is today without people, like this forum has, trying to do something different, success or failure.

With regards to engine management, you need to understand that fueling isn't the only thing you need to worry about when going boosted from N/A. You also need to be able to adjust the timing quite a bit to make it run safely.

Don't quote me on this - but I'm pretty sure you have to pull quite a lot of timing out when going from a N/A tune to a boosted tune.

Maybe the factory MAF sensor will be able to identify the increased air flow going into the engine, and maybe a rising rate FPR will help to deliver more fuel, but without the ability to adjust the ignition timing - you will still end up pinging your engine to death.

Another thing to think about. If you intend of using water injection or methanol injection to keep you intake temps down look into it very thoroughly. Why cause some superchargers rotors are coated with a teflon material. The above methods of cooling the intake charge may strip the teflon material of the rotors. I compare it to sandblasting.
Not sure if the sprintex kit uses these coated rotors or not i know the commodore super 6 does and have seen some examples of this on one of the Holden forums as well as FIT's website.
Bit of extra food for thought. Good to see your trying to cover all bases where possible.
Theres good information in this thread.
Good luck with your project.

Regards

Another thing to think about. If you intend of using water injection or methanol injection to keep you intake temps down look into it very thoroughly. Why cause some superchargers rotors are coated with a teflon material. The above methods of cooling the intake charge may strip the teflon material of the rotors. I compare it to sandblasting.
Not sure if the sprintex kit uses these coated rotors or not i know the commodore super 6 does and have seen some examples of this on one of the Holden forums as well as FIT's website.
Bit of extra food for thought. Good to see your trying to cover all bases where possible.
Theres good information in this thread.
Good luck with your project.

Regards


the sprintex rotors look annodised.... but in sure water meth injection is fine as the extra injector sprayes fuel just before the rotors and it passes through them...

but you need a catch can for this kit....

to the dude who have the kit and no catch can, just look inside the blower and manifold and see the oil that has been sucked it!


to the op, i wouldnt worry so much about the piggy back, it does it's job, and you dont see any sign of it and you will never know where it is unless you pull half the car apart

Seen the stuff on FIT's website. http://v6supercharged.com.au/workshop.asp?ProjectID=8

Definitly food for thought, BUT a properly atomised stream of water would not have done that - looks like something stupid like methanol was added as well - which then went acidic and went to town on the alloy (or big droplets + seaside residence = corrosion). A half-assed implementation at best.

Strangely enough - this is the only mention of this happening I have ever come across.

Eaton use a teflon coating on the rotors, opcon autorotor/whipple/sprintex use a ceramic coating - far higher durability.

Sparkplugs specified by Sprintex are IRIWAY7's or their direct equivalent BKR7EIX. You could use BKR7EIX-11's at a pinch, but their gap is 1.1mm - BKR7EIX is 0.8mm - the smaller gap reduces the possibility of misfiring on boost. IRIWAY 7's are about $25-30 per plug, you can get BKR7EIX's at $12.95 each on ebay - its your choice :)
do you have a link to these? i'm in need of a full set of plugs

also, can someone tell me if i need low or high impedence injectors. I have found Delphia Rochester 500CC injectors from ebay that will fit our cars, but the guy on the other end of my emails has asked which do i want. Low impedence need an adjustable ecu whereas high impedence will work with factory ECU. Just want to double check that i do require/best option low impedence injectors

Thanks everyone. Looks like there is no elegant way around the piggy back ECU. So, in conclusion I just get Sprintex to install it stock. The only option I can play around with is the spark plugs. Following HeathYoung's suggestion, I will keep a couple of sets (2x6) as spares. Only US$12.99 per spark plug, so not really a bank breaking cost.

I would be interested to know the cc of the standard 3.5l Magna injectors and the cc of the 380's injectors? If they are the same and interchangable then the 380 injectors are 12 hole injectors, so much better spray pettern, but need to check that the cc are the same.

i'd just get the kit fitted and upgrade the exhaust and intake....

i belive this is why my car was making big power in comparison to those with the same kit and skinny tail pipe

here is a tip

get 3" metal cat and 2.5" quality mandrel bent cat back
upgrade the intank fuel pump
k&n pannel filter

then get the kit fitted by sprintex and the tune will be more spot on than getting them mods done after the kit

forget the plugs, the kit supplied ones are what you need

also get a catch can

then happy days!

no other mods needed, you will then have decent power and best of all reliability!

std injectors are fine for the above, i made upwards of 188awkw on the dyno at less than 95% and extra inj only 60%

Actually the charger can go to 14psi, according to sprintex's little excel program that they've got on theyre site.
What charger do we have? 3S-335?

Well I am pretty sure that the Ralliarts come with a 2.5" exhaust system.


The VR-X exhaust system, which was used as the base, was revised with the addition of a large bomb-type muffler to the centre pipe to improve the mid-high rpm exhaust note. After testing three alternative exhaust headers, specially fabricated stainless steel header pipes were added to increase top end power.

I already have the K&N Air Filter Panel, K&N Oil Filter and Hiclone. The Royal Purple fluids are going in the day before the Supercharger same with the Motul 5.1 brake fluid. The FilterMAGs are in the air, coming from the eastern states. I don't think I have missed anything?

But I must use the Brisk Spark plugs ..... else I will have to change my Avatar.

Lastly, why would I need a catch can? What does it do?



Actually the charger can go to 14psi, according to sprintex's little excel program that they've got on theyre site.
where abouts? i can't find it

Go to www.sprintex.com.au You may need to scroll down a bit and on the right hand side, it should have a picture of a calulator and the words "blower calculator go ->". You need Microsoft Excel to view though.

at 14psi you'd need liquid nitrogen injection to cool the intake charge as it'd super hot, wayyy out of the efficient range...

you can though upgrade the blower to a bigger unit with minimal mods, then what do you want 20+psi lol

that will cost heaps though as the std blower is $3050

at 14psi you'd need liquid nitrogen injection to cool the intake charge as it'd super hot, wayyy out of the efficient range...

you can though upgrade the blower to a bigger unit with minimal mods, then what do you want 20+psi lol

that will cost heaps though as the std blower is $3050
if i had a lazy 5G lying around for the blower, and made forged rods and a forged crank i might consider it, but 10½psi plus the the mega headwork i have going on should be enough

and if it's not, a decent shot of nos will help!

i was looking into it... but needed a better ecu!

it'll be good for the track, even a small shot.... good to lower the temps...

be safe though 150hp shot :P

and if it's not, a decent shot of nos will help!

i was looking into it... but needed a better ecu!

it'll be good for the track, even a small shot.... good to lower the temps...

be safe though 150hp shot :P
you're a twat! i'm gonna stick with the water/meth setup. Once my engine is run in thats going straight on

Well I am pretty sure that the Ralliarts come with a 2.5" exhaust system

AFAIK The ralliarts have the same exhaust as the rest, just with a different centre resonator to adhere to noise restrictions, and the same muffler as the sports/vrx I believe, just with a different tip?

This means a 2.4" system that gets to around 2.25" in places.

AFAIK The ralliarts have the same exhaust as the rest, just with a different centre resonator to adhere to noise restrictions, and the same muffler as the sports/vrx I believe, just with a different tip?

This means a 2.4" system that gets to around 2.25" in places.
I believe you are probably right. I had no idea of the minimum diameter of the exhaust system until your post, but I did manage to lift this excerpt from http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1437/article.html

FYI

The Ralliart Magna uses heat-coated tubular extractors that will happily bolt to the heads of any TE-TJ Magna V6. On the other hand, Rod tells us the standard cast iron exhaust manifolds flow very well - the Ralliart extractors "are worth only a couple of kilowatts here or there".

Note that these extractors are longer than the standard cast manifolds, and - as a result - they require a new joining pipe. No performance advantage comes from the Ralliart's replacement front pipe - its only there to get gasses from A to B.

A 'bomb' style centre resonator is also fitted to improve the exhaust note.

The rear section of exhaust is just as you'll find on a TJ Sport/VR-X. There's the same muffler that picked up a heap of kilowatts over the item used on the TH model 3.5. No changes here.

Interestingly, Rod says there's not much more to be picked up from further mods to the exhaust. "At one stage we tried a straight length of pipe with no mufflers and it made no more extra power." Exhaust backpressure in the Ralliart Magna is said to be less than 400mm of mercury (53 kPa).

I already have the K&N Air Filter Panel, K&N Oil Filter and Hiclone.

I'd take out the Hiclone, It'll become a restriction to air flow with the charger fitted.

Just run it as sprintex intendid for 20000ks or a year.

After the warranty is up then start playing around.

The charger I'm pretty sure is the lysholm 1600. According to the blower calculator it can do 14psi on a 3.5lt engine at 6800rpm. But I wouldnt ever take it to that boost, it's the absolute maximum it can spin at.

I'd say go water/meth injection aswell as the oil catch can and oil cooler. Better safe than be in my situation and tzaboys.

Computer wise, Interceptors are crap and unreliable. Go full replacement (piggyback) or editing software when it come avaliable (finding out how close tomorow).

I'd say go water/meth injection aswell as the oil catch can and oil cooler. Better safe than be in my situation and tzaboys.
Trust me, I REALLY want to be safe!

Sorry to show my ignorance, but what is an oil catch can? Meaning, where does it go and what does it do?

Also, how would I actually go about installing the Water/Meth injection? Where would it inject? Is there a hole already in the manifold somewhere that would be used, without drilling a new one? Can the piggy back ECU from Sprintex also control this? I am trying to simplify my system. The idea of TWO piggy back ECUs is mind boggling.

Computer wise, Interceptors are crap and unreliable. Go full replacement (piggyback) or editing software when it come avaliable (finding out how close tomorow).
My plan is to use the editing software when it is available and also to install the 12 hole 380's injectors (if they fit, still haven't found out yet). The 380's injectors have a much better spray pattern, almost atomising the fuel (so I read).

The charger I'm pretty sure is the lysholm 1600. According to the blower calculator it can do 14psi on a 3.5lt engine at 6800rpm. But I wouldnt ever take it to that boost, it's the absolute maximum it can spin at.).
If I go the Water/Meth injection route then I would like to eventually wind the boost upto say 10.5psi. Downsize one pulley size. If I don't, then I doubt I will alter the Sprintex from factory. After all my pistons only have anodised crowns.

Sorry to show my ignorance, but what is an oil catch can? Meaning, where does it go and what does it do?


An Oil Catch Can is basically a filtration canister that is installed inline on the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system. It filters most of the oil out of the PCV before it enters the intake manifold. I'm not positive, but I'd assume that on a sprintex setup - it's entering the intake before the compressor??.



Also, how would I actually go about installing the Water/Meth injection? Where would it inject? Is there a hole already in the manifold somewhere that would be used, without drilling a new one? Can the piggy back ECU from Sprintex also control this? I am trying to simplify my system. The idea of TWO piggy back ECUs is mind boggling.

My advice on this topic....... wait until someone else does it. If it's effective, copy what they have done. There's a member (heathyoung??) who's working on developing a delivery system + controller specifically aimed at the magna/sprintex market


My plan is to use the editing software when it is available and also to install the 12 hole 380's injectors (if they fit, still haven't found out yet). The 380's injectors have a much better spray pattern, almost atomising the fuel (so I read).

Good luck getting any info regarding injector specs for the magna / 380. I tried everywhere, fuel injection specialists, my local mitsubishi service department, MMAL head office, Bosch head office (after I found out they were bosch units). No one either knew, or CBF'd finding out the answer to my question. All I wanted to know was the manufacturers part number for the factory injectors so I could find one with the same physical specs but higher flow rate.


If I go the Water/Meth injection route then I would like to eventually wind the boost upto say 10.5psi. Downsize one pulley size. If I don't, then I doubt I will alter the Sprintex from factory. After all my pistons only have anodised crowns.


Personally - I think it's too early to say at this stage whether or not 10.5psi would be safe / reliable with only the addition of water / meth injection. My understanding is that water / meth injection is only a "part time" fix, designed to give you a boost in power for when you're at the drag strip and the occasional "traffic light GP". I mean how long will one tank of water/meth last. It's not like a turbo - you can't drive it "off boost" if you're worried about doing damage to something, you'll be pushing 10.5psi of boost thru your engine from 2000rpm up.

I might be way off the mark - but someone will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong.

My understanding is that water / meth injection is only a "part time" fix, designed to give you a boost in power for when you're at the drag strip and the occasional "traffic light GP".

The system Heathyoung is designing he is intending to run only with water (not methanol). The way he is designing the controller, you will be able to run it all the time. It will be programmed to start injecting water only above a certain boost level (or throttle/rpm) level and even then it'll have the ability to adjust the amount of water depending on load.

This way it can be left on, but will not inject water under cruise conditions where the boost level or load on the engine is low enough not to require it. Also the system will be a high pressure unit with a good nozzle that finely mists the spray pattern, so you aren't actually injecting a heap of water anyway. Even if you have to refill every few days...it's just water (forget methanol) lol.

This is all from what I rememebr reading on his thread about the kit, if you go to the thread it's all there in detail.

Yep thats pretty much it. Fully mappable to either injector duty cycle or boost pressure.

Pressure pump was a windscreen washer pump, but found that atomisation was a little poor for my liking. Trying two different tricks now - using an ULKA high pressure pump (10bar) driven by some tricky circuitry (they are designed to run off 240V 50Hz) but if you keep the pulse width the same and vary the frequency, you have a vairable pump. Other is the tried and true method of using an agricultural diaphragm spray pump, but noise is rather excessive :(

The ulka pump has the downside that you need quite a few volts to get it going :P

I've read on Autospeed in a couple of their water injection articles, that running two washer pumps in series has worked well. What's your take on this method Heath?

Two washer pumps in series is an OK method, prepumping is perfectly valid - however - noise is doubled (obviously) and flow needs to be matched to the nozzle. (Ie. if you use two pumps on a nozzle that flows a LOT) then the pressure will be low still.

Cheers
Heath Young

I see that it'll be a balance of pressure vs volume. I guess you physically could get the right amount of pressure even with one washer pump if you match it to a small enough nozzle size, but then you would most likely not get the required volume of atomised
water.

If I go the Water/Meth injection route then I would like to eventually wind the boost upto say 10.5psi. Downsize one pulley size. If I don't, then I doubt I will alter the Sprintex from factory. After all my pistons only have anodised crowns.

Dont up the boost without forged pistons, you'll melt them.

Dont up the boost without forged pistons, you'll melt them.
If I understand correctly ..... If I don't have forged pistons then I need to stay stock boost, regardless of how much water/meth injection I use? Right-O, fair enough, not something I really want to melt through in a hurry.

In regards to the water injection, you might want to have alook at this, http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sp&pid=57&tid=1 it might be just what you are looking for. It is designed to spray a fine mist of water directly onto an intercooler to improve it's cooling performance. Adapt that to spray directly into the inlet side of the supercharger. Not sure if that is what you were going for but it may give you ideas.

Instead of water/meth injection what about a Cryo2 system? In case you haven't seen it before, http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sp&pid=4&tid=1. It is an aerodynamic bulb that has CO2 passed through it, thus making the bulb supercool. It claims to reduce your intake temperature charge by more than 50 degrees (not sure if it is C or F). Similair effect to NOS without injecting anything into your engine (their words). Also I think CO2 is colder than NOS. Look at CO2 fire extinguishers, great for chilling a beer to ice cold in two seconds flat. Also not sure of the consumption, using little squirts of CO2 constantly as the timer module implies, but you could probably get away with using soda stream CO2 bottles, no need to rent cylinders then.

There is also a timer module released by the same mob, see http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sp&pid=48&tid=1 which could probably be used for either the water injection or the Cryo2 (which it is actually intended for).

Not trying to say how it could or should be done. Just trying to give people, with more technical know-how than me, ideas.

The point of water injection is to give a more stable intake temperature - you don't notice wether it is a hot or cold day as much any more - allows you to safely make more power by reducing the IAT's - the sprintex ECU takes the colder charge air into account and retards the ignition timing less = more power.

Simple really :)

I'm looking at smaller nozzles for the spray attachment, gives better atomisation at lower pump speeds.

First can i say this has been an interesting thread to follow. All of the tech knowledge is amazing. Black Beard when you say you have tried contacting people about the injector upgrade, have you tried Ralliart as they are now developing the release of the TRM380. How many of you have these S/C on AWD's?

I have found out some new information, not sure if it will help. The parts place that I get my 'bits' through had a conversation with the Mitsubishi Ralliart Area Manager about my question of whether Mitsubishi 380 injectors will fit on a Mitsubishi Magna and the answer was yes. He also said that the 380 heads would bolt onto a Magna. So, from the sounds of it the 6G74 and the 6G75 motors are very similair uptop. Unfortunately he was not forthcoming with the cc of the injectors, but physically the two injectors are interchangeable. Now with a cost of about $100 for a Magna injector and $250 for a 380 injector I am reluctant to try it just yet. So, my plan is to wait the 12months warranty out with Sprintex and then look at installing the 380s injectors. Better spray pattern, better combustion. By then the programming software should be readily available for the TJ series Magna ECUs.

My next little research project it to find a Mitsubishi Genuine Transmission Oil Cooler for the TJ Ralliart Magna. Most probably it would have been standard issue on the Wagon models. If anyone has a TJ Magna Wagon can they have a look and let me know if they have a stock transmission cooler? I know the TP Magna Wagons had a transmission cooler from factory, as I had a TP Magna wagon. But I am trying to find one from a similair model. If I cannot find a TJ one then I am also looking at TL, TW, then TE/F, TR/S or last but not least TM/N/P. I have already spoken to Sprintex and they said they have no dramas fabricating custom mounts if that is needed.


An Oil Catch Can is basically a filtration canister that is installed inline on the PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) system. It filters most of the oil out of the PCV before it enters the intake manifold. I'm not positive, but I'd assume that on a sprintex setup - it's entering the intake before the compressor??.
Does anyone know of a company that markets these Oil Catch Cans, with mounts to fit our motors? Not really looking to customise stuff myself. Don't have the expertise. Seen some nice looking Oil Catch Cans on eBay, but they are all universal. Cool features too, clear level tube, breather filter on top, tap on bottom to drain oil back into sump, one was even 2l!

Also I have found an Australian Distributor for the Brisk Spark Plugs, www.brisksparkplugs.com.au. I should have a set with me when I rock up to the Perth Magna Meets, to show anyone who may be interested.

KenShadow, you can get the trans coolers also from the upgrade tow packs that were offered from TH onwards. I have read on another thread about them. You might want to consider your ADR emission standard. As the standard Sprintex kit is fully ADR compliant.

You might want to consider your ADR emission standard. As the standard Sprintex kit is fully ADR compliant.
Not sure what you mean, or what you are referring to?

Right-O. Time for an update. I have had the Brisk Spark plugs installed and the engine is now running so much smoother, more responsive and accelerates better at the low end of the rev range. Yet, I am running the Plugs one rating cooler with the reduced gap for the supercharger and the engine is still running sweet. I have had the Royal Purple Oil put in and the Royal Purple radiator fluid. Everything is now so smooth and quiet. So I will be able to hear the supercharger better.

KenShadow, you can get the trans coolers also from the upgrade tow packs that were offered from TH onwards. I have read on another thread about them.
I have had a "chat" with the Mitsubishi parts man at Wanneroo Mitsubishi, well actually we spoke for over an hour. Apparently there are no genuine transmission coolers for any of the 3.5l motors. We looked through the towing packs for the TH through to the TW. He has worked for Mitsubishi Parts for "as long as he can remember" and we were unable to find what I was after. So, it looks like the Sprintex Trans cooler is the one for me, not that I am disappointed, just would have preferred Genuine.

I have had a "chat" with the Mitsubishi parts man at Wanneroo Mitsubishi, well actually we spoke for over an hour. Apparently there are no genuine transmission coolers for any of the 3.5l motors. We looked through the towing packs for the TH through to the TW. He has worked for Mitsubishi Parts for "as long as he can remember" and we were unable to find what I was after. So, it looks like the Sprintex Trans cooler is the one for me, not that I am disappointed, just would have preferred Genuine.


grab one out of a KR Verada.

I remember Gas_Hed putting one in his KE and he got it from a wrecker out of a 2nd gen rada.

As you can see all the forced induction stuff is tohard.. thats why i went with NA..

But remember once you start changing internals and making it go faster reliablilty goes out the window quicker than u can come off the clutch..:P

Mine spends more time off the road then on.. thats no bullshiit. Thats because its had to many mods..:) its no longer a normal car. its a pain in the ass magna.. but sounds sick when running..:P

grab one out of a KR Verada.

I remember Gas_Hed putting one in his KE and he got it from a wrecker out of a 2nd gen rada.

yeah I got one from the wreckers too. Just piped it in sequence to the factory radiator cooler. i.e gearbox, radiator, cooler, gearbox.

Trans coolers are pretty much universal things. I got a PWR transmission cooler late last year for about $60 from repco and it came with a fitting kit, and more than enough hose to plumb it in.

I hooked it up to my power steering pump - but thats another story altogether.

Trans coolers are pretty much universal things. I got a PWR transmission cooler late last year for about $60 from repco and it came with a fitting kit, and more than enough hose to plumb it in.

I hooked it up to my power steering pump - but thats another story altogether.
:bowrofl: Im guessing that was not meant?

']:bowrofl: Im guessing that was not meant?

No, thats exactly what I intended to do with it, as before I installed it, my power steering fluid was boiling.

No, thats exactly what I intended to do with it, as before I installed it, my power steering fluid was boiling.


i thought you had a magna not a commodore lol

have anything to do with the turbos, of was it unrelated?

Well I am now Supercharged. The seat of the pants power is extreme.

Just need to sort out some minor wiring faults now. Like, the Thermofans don't run at all unless the the A/C switch is on and I cannot get the A/C to turn on at all. Also the heating unit runs full water through the back of the dash so the air is sauna hot. But seems like a couple of misdirected wires. Everything else seems to work fine. I suppose that is the problem with electric climate control and adding extra electrics. The simple knob style A/C probably wouldn't have a problem.

Now my question to all those that know more than I (most of you that is) what are some good Cold Air Intake systems for the TJ Magna.

HeathYoung,

I was reading through a Street Commodore Magazine. I know that is *uncool* for a Magna fan, but a friend of mine owns a Gen III Commodore and the bits and ideas in those Mags can sometimes be transferred to Magnas.

Anyway I was reading about the Yella Terra Supercharger kit for the LS1 (I think). There was a product called a VapourJet that they sold with the Supercharger kit in the article. Which seems to be exactly what you are describing. The link is http://www.staparts.co.nz/downloads/STAPPC06web.pdf it is on page 13.

The benefit of this kit seems to be, no need for water pump, atomised sprays, more water at higher boost pressure, less at lower boost pressure. Part number is YT1500WI from www.staparts.co.nz (that is the first one I found).

Hope this helps.

Well I am now Supercharged.
Congrats.




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Interesting. I'd never heard of them. Some big claims.

Well I am now Supercharged. The seat of the pants power is extreme.

Just need to sort out some minor wiring faults now. Like, the Thermofans don't run at all unless the the A/C switch is on and I cannot get the A/C to turn on at all. Also the heating unit runs full water through the back of the dash so the air is sauna hot. But seems like a couple of misdirected wires. Everything else seems to work fine. I suppose that is the problem with electric climate control and adding extra electrics. The simle knob style A/C probably wouldn't have a problem.
How did they manage to screw all that up when installing the charger? Was the piggy back ECU installed incorrectly? Is that what caused the problems?

How did they manage to screw all that up when installing the charger? Was the piggy back ECU installed incorrectly? Is that what caused the problems?
Not sure. It is booked in for first thing Monday morning. It seems like an easy enough fix. Just some misdirected signals in the wiring harness, I suspect. Everything else seems to run fine.

All I know for a fact is ..... There is VERY hot air coming out of the ventilation ducts, suspect the water control servo has been given a signal to open fully, but not close. The thermo fans will NOT run if the air con is not selected, if the air con is selected then the thermo fans will kick in and out as required.

Just found out a new link on Water Injection, for all of those like me that are still learning. http://www.mrtrally.com.au/performance/docs/MRT-Technical-Water-Injection.pdf. Has good information of the reasons for Water Injection and also a solid delivery system and pictures. I am still leaning towards the pumpless system from Yella Terra, but I will update you when I have phoned them and possibly installed it.

Also Rocket Industries http://www.rocketindustries.com.au/search.php?field=WATER+INJECTION+KIT&menu=Cooling+%26amp%3B+Heating in Australia sells the Yella Terra kit (YT1500WI) that I mentioned before as well as the New Zealand company StaParts http://www.staparts.co.nz/downloads/STAPPC06web.pdf.

I think I have found a suitable place to inject, aswell. On the Ralliart Magna, the intake pipe before the throttle body has a circle on the top that has a resonance chamber attached and a circle on the underside that is sealed. The Verada has a resonance chamber on both top and bottom circles. Not really sure what the resonance chambers achieve, if anyone could enlighten me. But I have seen a couple of people have used things from powerade caps to welsh plugs to seal the holes, after they have removed the resonance chambers. So, I was thinking of using Welsh plugs and drilling holes in the center of them and mounting the atomisers there. I think the Yella Terra kit comes with two atomisers, one atomiser per plug, one plug per hole. Please advise if anyone thinks otherwise.

I've seen that style of WI before. Zoom / Autospeed published an article ages ago - uses a very bulky vaporisation nozzle, and a fairly large hose to pressurise the water container. Hobbs pressure switch to shut off the water.

It does work quite well - works on the HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure - like a vacuum cleaner in reverse vs an air compressor) principle. Those cheap spraying outfits you can get from bunnings that use the big air hose use HVLP guns.

No pumps, but you need a pressurised resovoir and low restriction solenoids.

You don't get the same degree of atomisation as pumped WI, overshoot is common and linearity is poor.

Re: Welch plugs in intake hose - this works well if you use a well atomised spray, you should have the WI stream at 90 degrees to the airflow.

I suppose that is the problem with electric climate control and adding extra electrics. The simle knob style A/C probably wouldn't have a problem.

Never had a problem with my car.

Might wanna get that sorted out cause the S/C shouldn't affect the climate control one bit.

I suppose that is the problem with electric climate control and adding extra electrics. The simle knob style A/C probably wouldn't have a problem.

Never had a problem with my car.

Might wanna get that sorted out cause the S/C shouldn't affect the climate control one bit.

ditto... sounds like your installer messed up. climate control does not affect the SC wiring at all. I'd hate to even guess what sort of wiring mess up has happened.

cheers,
.wook

I would tend to agree - the piggyback computer is only connected to a few wires on the ECU - crank angle sensor, a +5V feed for the MAP sensor, two power wires, and oxygen sensor. Sounds like someone couldn't count the wires on the ECU loom :nuts:

I can post the colours + functions if you want to crosscheck the wiring. Its just a rough schematic I drew up for installation.

Right-O. It is all sorted. Turned out that a Relay had fallen out from it's socket in the Climate Control relay box, right next to the driver's left leg. All nice and cool now.

Sprintex checked it all out for me and couldn't fault the wiring loom, so they continued to investigate and found the relay.

I also had another issue crop up this morning. As soon as I had turned the Engine on and put the Transmission into 'D' the 'N' light was flashing at the same time. This caused the Transmission to lock itself into 3rd gear. I was already going to head straight to Sprintex as it was, so I did that at 3000rpm at 70km per hour. Since the light came up staright away, before the Transmission had even warmed up, I tend to believe it was electrical. Anyway, I parked outside of Sprintex, until 08:00, when people started to arrive. When I started the car again, to drive into the garage section, the fault was gone. Hopefully it was a 'loose' connection and when everything was double checked it made better contact.

I had the same issue with my auto before i converted. I was told that a sensor on the tranny came loose or was screwed and needed replacing. Maybe have a look at all the sensors on it.. Probably is a mechanic job.

Just thought i let you know

OK. Now for the newest plan. I am looking at trying to install an ANTI-KNOCK sensor from the 2nd Gen Magnas onto my motor. Not even sure if it can be done. This is a feasability question. One point I should make, is the reason I am doing all of this. I live in Kalgoorlie, that means that I have constant summer temperature of around 40C, give or take a few degrees. Now I believe that the IAT Sensor in constantly retarding my timing, just due to the ambient air temperature, plus I would be injecting extra fuel in through the 7th injector to cool the intake charge, based on the SMT6 program. Now by using the water/methanol injection I am hoping that the drop in IAT would reduce the amount of extra fuel dosed through the 7th injector.

A quick run down on the latest updates, planned but not yet implemented. I have sourced a Yella Terra VapourJet (YT1500WI) water injection system, from New Zealand, as these things aren't made anymore. I am going to source an K&N Oval Tapered Air Filter Pod (57-1500-1) with one of the Drycharger "socks" (RF-1001DL). Now the Air Filter has a Stainless Steel plate on the top, so I plan to drill 2 small holes, just big enough for the water injection atomisers. Then I will fill the "Tank" up with 40/60 water/methanol mix.

I plan to replace my radiator coolant with EvansCooling NPG-R. It is currently on it's way from America to the Australian distributor. This is a lifetime coolant that is a blend of glycols and contains no water.

I am running 98 Octane BP Ultimate.

Now, all these things help to improve the engine's knock resistance. Since I already have a piggyback ECU I was hoping it would be possible to wire the 2nd Gens Anti-knock sensor into the piggyback ECU. After all, the engine's timing is currently being retarded by the IAT sensor. The thing is, I do not know how the 2nd Gen incorporates the anti-knock sensor into it's ECU setup or even its placement in the block. Does the 2nd Gen and 3rd Gen have the same ECUs?

I want to optimise my motor, but I do not want to destroy a motor by waiting until my unsofisticated ear starts to hear the knocking and then "backing it off a bit". This works quite well on NA motors, but as I understand it, it is fatal on supercharged motors.

EDIT: I have just found out that 380s have knock sensors as well. Maybe one of them could be retrofitted.

Forgot to add pictures

[QUOTE=KenShadow]I plan to replace my radiator coolant with EvansCooling NPG-R. It is currently on it's way from America to the Australian distributor. This is a lifetime coolant that is a blend of glycols and contains no water.[QUOTE]

is this stuff expensive? I was thinking about using something similar, but thought what if a radiator hose blows. only have to buy it again.:doubt:

*edit...just googled and found it for $30USD which isn't bad at all.

I plan to replace my radiator coolant with EvansCooling NPG-R. It is currently on it's way from America to the Australian distributor. This is a lifetime coolant that is a blend of glycols and contains no water.

is this stuff expensive? I was thinking about using something similar, but thought what if a radiator hose blows. only have to buy it again.:doubt:

*edit...just googled and found it for $30USD which isn't bad at all.
Good question. After all you are not yet familiar with the product. If you go to the Evan's Coolant website (www.evanscooling.com) and have a read of the product you will find that the pressure inside your radiator will only increase to, at most, 7psi and I think that is on racing cars. Whereas the standard radiator cap has a 30psi cracking pressure, I think. That is the only way that a radiator with water/ethylene glycol can function. When you put water under pressure you increase the temperature at which it boils, then add ethylene glycol to raise it even further (and lower the freezing point at the same time). Also when water freezes it expands and cracks blocks. When NPG-R freezes it turns into a slushy but does not expand.

Point being you would be VERY unlucky it you did a radiator hose. Not impossible, but it would be through mechanical defect or through damage.

Hope that makes sense. Also the EvansCooling website has the name/E-Mail of the Australian distributor.

Knock sensore is under the inlet manifold bolted to each bank of the block. 2nd gen

You could try to run one on each bank as well/

One thing that concerns me about the piggy back playing with the CAS is you also then advance your injection timing this fuel is just sitting there waiting to get burnt.

Does anyone yet know if the reprogramme is out, this would be ideal as you could advance/retard timing but leave the injectors to fire when they are supposed to.

You should consider abandoning the 7th injector altogether and put six bigger injectors in. This may not be as expensive as you might think, tzaboy has found some effective toyota injectors that will do the duty for less cost than the mitsi units.

My piston failure was a result of the 7th injector not firing causing a catastrophic lean-out. Keep it fuelled first, then worry about cooling the charge.

Evans cooling - FFS, its basically pure ethylene glycol - 5 litres of basic 1 nine (99.9% pure) is pretty damn cheap - it is hydroscopic anyway... I got a litre of 2 nine lab grade (99.99%) to fill up the inside of a CRT projector tube (the tube face has coolant between it and the front glass cover - small tubes, lots of light = lots of heat) for about $20 IIRC.

RE: 7th injector. Agree in principle its a bad idea, why they didn't use something like a Greddy to intercept and extend the injector pulse width is totally beyond me - The toyota injectors sound interesting, greddy has a function to compensate for larger injectors, plus can run boost sensing. But not sure if it will run boost + IAT sensors and map from them both... Hmmm...


Cheers
Heath Young

The Evan's Coolant is "mostly" Propylene Glycol. They actually have one that is straight Propylene Glycol, for race tracks that do not allow Ethylene Glycol. Something about making the tarmac slippery.

As I understand it, the 7th injector is used to help seal and cool the supercharger and supply additional fuel when under boost. Also when the IAT climbs the 7th injector starts to act like a water/meth injector to cool your intake charge and when that runs out of legs then your timing gets retarded. This is my rough idea after talking to Sprintex.

Also I was already looking at changing all of my injectors for 380 ones. After my parts guy talked to the RalliArt expert in Perth, I was told that the 380 injectors will fit in Magna heads, but until I see one of each side by side I am reluctant to fork out for the expensive 380 injectors. I was looking at this because the 380 injectors have a 12 hole spray pattern whilst the Magna injectors have a 2 hole spray pattern. Plus the 380 being a slightly bigger motor, the injectors should flow slightly more. Plus the way I look at it, you keep Mitsubishi parts in your Mitsubishi, yes, yes, I know that Sprintex use a Holden IAT sensor. But, I am trying to keep as much of my car Mitsubishi as is feasible.

The Evan's Coolant is "mostly" Propylene Glycol. They actually have one that is straight Propylene Glycol, for race tracks that do not allow Ethylene Glycol. Something about making the tarmac slippery.


Hmmm... I call BS on evanscoolant... (From http://www.crownsolutions.com/pdfs/Glycol.pdf)

"Water is probably the most efficent heat-transfer fluid known. If it did not freeze, water
would be the ideal heat-transfer fluid for cooling applications. When freeze conditions
exist (<35 F), ethylene glycol and propylene glycol can be added to water to provide
freeze protection and burst protection. Both glycols have lower heat-transfer efficiencies
than water and are more dense, resulting in higher volumetric flowrates or heat-exchange
areas required to maintain the same temperature levels (see Tables 1 and 2). Higher
flowrates lead to higher pressure drops, energy consumption, and equipment wear. As a
result, it is important to accurately determine the minimal concentration of glycol needed
to do the job in order to maintain system efficiency.

Between the two, ethylene glycol (C2H6O2) is a better heat transfer fluid than propylene
glycol (C3H8O2). Propylene glycol is less toxic and is considered when toxicity is a
concern."

Notice the phrase - minimum content required - ie. pure glycol = very bad idea.

Glycols go acidic too BTW - hope that there is some corrosion protection added.




As I understand it, the 7th injector is used to help seal and cool the supercharger and supply additional fuel when under boost. Also when the IAT climbs the 7th injector starts to act like a water/meth injector to cool your intake charge and when that runs out of legs then your timing gets retarded. This is my rough idea after talking to Sprintex.


Yes, used to seal and cool + aditional fuelling. Timing is retarded WAAAAAY before the injector reaches maximum duty cycle (never goes close).



Also I was already looking at changing all of my injectors for 380 ones. After my parts guy talked to the RalliArt expert in Perth, I was told that the 380 injectors will fit in Magna heads, but until I see one of each side by side I am reluctant to fork out for the expensive 380 injectors. I was looking at this because the 380 injectors have a 12 hole spray pattern whilst the Magna injectors have a 2 hole spray pattern. Plus the 380 being a slightly bigger motor, the injectors should flow slightly more. Plus the way I look at it, you keep Mitsubishi parts in your Mitsubishi, yes, yes, I know that Sprintex use a Holden IAT sensor. But, I am trying to keep as much of my car Mitsubishi as is feasible.

Its a standard part, haltech use the same delphi IAT sensor (although they do put a premium price on it :nuts: ) Mitsubishi injectors are bosch injectors, used on god knows how many different vehicles :doubt:.

The manifold is optimised for the current injectors.

On the water being the best cooling liquid. AFAIK it can form tiny bubbles on the inside of your engine and when they pop the corrode away the internals of your engine. This is what i have been told so i will keep my flame proof booth handy just in case.!!:D

On the water being the best cooling liquid. AFAIK it can form tiny bubbles on the inside of your engine and when they pop the corrode away the internals of your engine. This is what i have been told so i will keep my flame proof booth handy just in case.!!:D

Not quite. What you are describing is the effects of cavitation, it reduces the efficiency of the cooling system by forming a boundary between the water and metal, reducing the contact surface area.

Corrosion in a cooling system is mostly due to galvanic corrosion caused by dissimilar metals (ie. different galvanic potentials) used in conjunction with an electrolyte (conductive fluid) to form a rudimentary battery.

BTW - I wasn't advocating using pure water :) The use of glycol lowers the freezing temperature and increases the boiling temperature (although this is increased also by the internal pressure of the cooling system) - hence anti-freeze and anti-boil.

Hmmm... I call BS on evanscoolant... (From http://www.crownsolutions.com/pdfs/Glycol.pdf)
I find it interesting how the Australian distributor, is only a distributor because he needs the product to use in Aircraft Motor cooling systems, as recommended by the company that produces the motors. To quote an E-Mail with them, I requested NPG-R and their response was, "At the moment we only stock the Evans NPG+ and the prep fluid. Reason for this is, as the Australian distributor for Rotax aircraft engines, a service bulletin came out requiring our engines to use this product, and as no one was importing this product, we had to become the importer." By the way my bottles of NPG-R are on their way. I went the NPG-R route due to its viscosity being closer to that of water, at normal operating temperature. http://www.evanscooling.com/html/tech1.htm#ptbl1 Now this link doesn't have the info of the NPG-R, but to quote an E-Mail from EvansCooling, "Viscosity of our NPG+ is about the same as a 10 wt.oil. The NPGR is about the same as a straight antifreeze off the shelf. The NPGR is the thinnest viscosity of all our coolants."


On the water being the best cooling liquid. AFAIK it can form tiny bubbles on the inside of your engine and when they pop they corrode away the internals of your engine. This is what I have been told so I will keep my flame proof booth handy just in case.!!:D
What you are referring to is the loss of 'Nucleate Boiling', or so I have read. Give this a read, it is quite interesting, even if it is to sell their own product. http://www.evanscooling.com/html/tech1.htm

My concern is that with a 70/30 mix of Water/Ethylene Glycol (from Operator's Manual) and an additional product like Royal Purple's Purple Ice (Similar to Redline's Water Wetter) added to the fact that I am running a supercharger, the temperatures around the combustion chamber and valves could still possibly exceed the boiling point of the coolant.


BTW - I wasn't advocating using pure water :) The use of glycol lowers the freezing temperature and increases the boiling temperature (although this is increased also by the internal pressure of the cooling system) - hence anti-freeze and anti-boil.
I completely agree that no modern car, could run on 100% distilled water and not boil over, in certain situations (eg, climbing hills, towing, etc.).

I am chasing some more information from all of you guys in "the know".

I have a Supercharged Ralliart and I am looking to protect my transmission. I understand the older TE-TH transmissions had an external fluid filter. What I am thinking (if possible) is to have the internals of my auto put into the casing of a TE-TH auto so that I have the protection of a trans fluid filter. Why mitsubishi stopped doing it in later models was crazy. Just like the 3.5l not having the knock sensor whereas the 3.0l did.

Basically I am trying to find a 5 speed triptronic transmission casing that has a trans fluid filter (even one from overseas).

Next question, The Ralliart Manual comes with an LSD but the autos don't. Would the LSD fit into the auto? Both manual and auto boxes have the same open diffs (except the ralliart manual that comes with the LSD). The Traction control is OK, I suppose, but it backs off the throttle to control wheel spin, whereas the LSD transfers torque across to the other wheel. I do not like the idea of putting 250+kw through one wheel.

Last question, are the 380 fuel injectors the same physically and electrically as the 3.5l fuel injectors? Meaning fit in the same size hole and have the same impedance? The 380 injectors have a 12 hole spray pattern whereas the 3.5l injectors have a 2 hole spray pattern. I am looking to get a better atomised spray for a better burn.

Any help on these issues would be much appreciated. Also if your know someone that might know, could you please ask them? Maybe an ex-employee of Mitsubishi, or current employee even.

Then of course I am going to need to know the name of an auto mechanic that specialises in Mitsubishi automatic transmissions in or around Perth.

Next question, The Ralliart Manual comes with an LSD but the autos don't. Would the LSD fit into the auto? Both manual and auto boxes have the same open diffs (except the ralliart manual that comes with the LSD). The Traction control is OK, I suppose, but it backs off the throttle to control wheel spin, whereas the LSD transfers torque across to the other wheel. I do not like the idea of putting 250+kw through one wheel.

Quaife make an LSD which suits both manual and auto magnas. RPW sell them in AU. much cheaper than the Ralliart LSD, and they apparently have a lifetime guarantee (which doesn't preclude you from using them on the track!).

cheers,
.wook

Just like the 3.5l not having the knock sensor whereas the 3.0l did.

No they didn't.

I have a Supercharged Ralliart and I am looking to protect my transmission. I understand the older TE-TH transmissions had an external fluid filter. What I am thinking (if possible) is to have the internals of my auto put into the casing of a TE-TH auto so that I have the protection of a trans fluid filter. Why mitsubishi stopped doing it in later models was crazy. Just like the 3.5l not having the knock sensor whereas the 3.0l did.

Basically I am trying to find a 5 speed triptronic transmission casing that has a trans fluid filter (even one from overseas).



Have you thought about fitting an external filter? I've fitted a canister type kit to my 4 speed, which has a handy threaded hole in the right place to mount the filter plate, and even better, it's in the perfect spot for the fluid lines to connect easily.

Next question, The Ralliart Manual comes with an LSD but the autos don't. Would the LSD fit into the auto? Both manual and auto boxes have the same open diffs (except the ralliart manual that comes with the LSD). The Traction control is OK, I suppose, but it backs off the throttle to control wheel spin, whereas the LSD transfers torque across to the other wheel. I do not like the idea of putting 250+kw through one wheel.
Great, now I have a new problem. I have been informed that the Auto and Manual Ralliarts have different diameter half shafts for the front axle. Since the VR-X had the option of an LSD maybe the Auto/Man difference is across the whole range of magnas? Can anyone experienced with Ralliarts confirm or deny this please. I am really trying to use the Ralliart LSD from Mitsubishi (as it is a sweet LSD sourced from the FTO GPX), but worst case senario I may need to install an aftermarket, like the Quaife that wookie suggested.

Also on a completely different track, what does everybody know about upsizing injectors? I found a little injector calculator that says to make 400HP(300kW), which is my target, I need 440cc/min injectors. They had something about BSFC at about 0.5 and suggested that being supercharged I should use 0.6 in the calculation.....but anyway. At 240HP(180kW) which is standard Ralliart needs 264cc/min, so I am guessing that the standard injectors were 275cc/min. Now, Sprintex suggest upgrading of the fuel pump for the TJ model as stock pressure is borderline, so I have had my mechanic source a racing fuel pump version of my stock fuel pump (meaning same size, manufacturer but greater flow/pressure). Now without sacrificing drivability at low throttle openings I am thinking of a boost adjusted fuel pressure regulator. Keeping the standard 3 Bar when not on boost and then bumping it up to 4 or 5 Bar on boost. Remembering I am still looking at going 10.5 psi boost ..... eventually ..... possibly ..... maybe.

Now the reason I am looking at fueling is that at the standard 7.3 psi boost the 7th injector is already 40% duty, based on the SMT6 tuning map. I am not sure about how many more legs the 7th injector has. Also with the water injection I SHOULD be able to get back to stock timing across the whole range. Found a very informative water injection website with an added calculator (http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html). And yes I plan to do this slow and carefully with the help of a good tuner and dyno. So, with all that in mind I am hoping to get back to stock timing with the use of water injection. With stock timing I then no longer need the piggyback ECU, as long as I can supply the additonal fuel another way. So, as long as I can increase the fuel delivery, even by using 6 Bar if need be, and stable boost powered waterinjection (less components to fail) I should be able to run stock timings and exceed my power target. If I can do that on 7.3 psi well then there is no need to up the boost.

Just my thoughts for everyone to comment on. As comments lead to new ideas and different avenues for modification. Things that I would never have thought of with my limited automobile knowledge. I am still just a noobie.

Also on a completely different track, what does everybody know about upsizing injectors? I found a little injector calculator that says to make 400HP(300kW), which is my target, I need 440cc/min injectors. They had something about BSFC at about 0.5 and suggested that being supercharged I should use 0.6 in the calculation.....but anyway. At 240HP(180kW) which is standard Ralliart needs 264cc/min, so I am guessing that the standard injectors were 275cc/min. Now, Sprintex suggest upgrading of the fuel pump for the TJ model as stock pressure is borderline, so I have had my mechanic source a racing fuel pump version of my stock fuel pump (meaning same size, manufacturer but greater flow/pressure). Now without sacrificing drivability at low throttle openings I am thinking of a boost adjusted fuel pressure regulator. Keeping the standard 3 Bar when not on boost and then bumping it up to 4 or 5 Bar on boost. Remembering I am still looking at going 10.5 psi boost ..... eventually ..... possibly ..... maybe.

TZABOY sourced some 7M-GTE 440cc injectors for his rebuild (http://aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56382)... they are a bit taller than OEM, but you can take some material off the top of the fuel rail and the blower still fits. I have a SARD Adjustable Rising Rate FPR and a Walbro 550hp fuel pump going in. you should be able to pick the FPR up for around $250 or less. not sure on the pricing of the injectors, as I'll run the engine in before I up the boost and require more fuel.


Now the reason I am looking at fueling is that at the standard 7.3 psi boost the 7th injector is already 40% duty, based on the SMT6 tuning map. I am not sure about how many more legs the 7th injector has. Also with the water injection I SHOULD be able to get back to stock timing across the whole range. Found a very informative water injection website with an added calculator (http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html). And yes I plan to do this slow and carefully with the help of a good tuner and dyno. So, with all that in mind I am hoping to get back to stock timing with the use of water injection. With stock timing I then no longer need the piggyback ECU, as long as I can supply the additonal fuel another way. So, as long as I can increase the fuel delivery, even by using 6 Bar if need be, and stable boost powered waterinjection (less components to fail) I should be able to run stock timings and exceed my power target. If I can do that on 7.3 psi well then there is no need to up the boost.

Just my thoughts for everyone to comment on. As comments lead to new ideas and different avenues for modification. Things that I would never have thought of with my limited automobile knowledge. I am still just a noobie.

WI is good! check out this WI kit (http://www.full-throttle.com.au/Engine/Boost%20Cooler%20Petrol%20SC.htm) from Boost Cooler... I have the Stage 2 kit waiting to be installed. with the dual maps you can load in an SMT6, I'm going to run an aggressive tune, and back it off when I'm low on water/meth with the fluid level indicator. it will be interesting to see the difference in power between the two tunes.

cheers,
.wook

if you are handy with tools I would look into the toyota injectors that jase has used, they seem to be cheap.

Otherwise, Mitsubishi 390cc injectors backed by a 275l/h walboro fuel pump will be sufficient even if you propose the 10.5 psi installation. At this level in a fwd you could expect 450hp at the wheels if you can sort out the cooling problems (assuming you are running forged pistons of course).

This is the fuel system I'm running now and it should prove to be quite satisfactory in the long run.

You need to ditch the 7th injector or run it at minimum duty, it is very difficult to get a decent tune as it keeps randomly dumping fuel in under load, creating too much overlap. The reliance on the 6 larger injectors helps to smooth things out alot and increase reliability.

Wait for RPW to finish my intercooler project and then buy one before you get too carried away with increased boost/timing.

Now without sacrificing drivability at low throttle openings I am thinking of a boost adjusted fuel pressure regulator. Keeping the standard 3 Bar when not on boost and then bumping it up to 4 or 5 Bar on boost. Remembering I am still looking at going 10.5 psi boost ..... eventually ..... possibly ..... maybe.




The only time your engine is not on boost is when it is switched off or at low idle.

The sprintex superchargers deliver almost constant boost across a very wide rpm range and are not like a turbo or centrifugal set set-up, so you don't need to worry as much about variation in boost pressure across rpm.

You need to worry first about the intake temps and fuelling which can be the killer once you start to exceed the OEM specifications.

Huh? I have a boost gauge and mine is *rarely* on boost.

Try turning the engine on :nuts:

Mine reads zero boost most of the time as well

The only time your engine is not on boost is when it is switched off or at low idle.


Am I missing something here? - There is usually vacuum unless the engine is under high load - 20InHg at idle, and around 15-5InHg cruise.

And is anyone else having issues with the stupid SC belt jumping teeth to the left at high RPM's? I don't think I have enough tension, the factory tensioner is fully tensioned, and I run a 1400mm long serpentine belt.

Am I missing something here? - There is usually vacuum unless the engine is under high load - 20InHg at idle, and around 15-5InHg cruise.

And is anyone else having issues with the stupid SC belt jumping teeth to the left at high RPM's? I don't think I have enough tension, the factory tensioner is fully tensioned, and I run a 1400mm long serpentine belt.

when its on the dyno getting tuned it is under load isn't it?

I don't think I have many set points for the zero load scenario.

Huh? I have a boost gauge and mine is *rarely* on boost.


from a couple of reports i have heard, sounds like your s/c is buggered.

if you have forced induction, your vac/boost gauge should rarely head into the vac region. Especially when you have s/c, as it being constantly boosting, even at idle.

Great, now I have a new problem. I have been informed that the Auto and Manual Ralliarts have different diameter half shafts for the front axle. Since the VR-X had the option of an LSD maybe the Auto/Man difference is across the whole range of magnas? Can anyone experienced with Ralliarts confirm or deny this please. I am really trying to use the Ralliart LSD from Mitsubishi (as it is a sweet LSD sourced from the FTO GPX), but worst case senario I may need to install an aftermarket, like the Quaife that wookie suggested.


Just a heads up, but there was NO factory option of a LSD on the Sports/VR-X magna, the only magna to ever come with a LSD was the manual ralliarts.

Otherwise, Mitsubishi 390cc injectors backed by a 275l/h walboro fuel pump will be sufficient even if you propose the 10.5 psi installation. At this level in a fwd you could expect 450hp at the wheels if you can sort out the cooling problems (assuming you are running forged pistons of course).


Mate 450whp = 335wkw.

With 10.5 psi + intercooling I don't think you'd have a chance of hell in making that at the flywheel, let alone at the wheels.

I think a realistic figure for such a setup would be 220-230wkw from a manual FWD. Mind you, a genuine 220-230wkw in our sub-1500kg magnas is getting VERY quick, probably about as quick as current model commo or falcon with ~280rwkw.

From a rolling start anyway, good luck trying to put down 220-230wkw from a standstill - even with a dynoed 180wkw and LSD, I find it impossible to achieve WOT in 1st without it spinning up.

Mate 450whp = 335wkw.

With 10.5 psi + intercooling I don't think you'd have a chance of hell in making that at the flywheel, let alone at the wheels.

I think a realistic figure for such a setup would be 220-230wkw from a manual FWD. Mind you, a genuine 220-230wkw in our sub-1500kg magnas is getting VERY quick, probably about as quick as current model commo or falcon with ~280rwkw.

From a rolling start anyway, good luck trying to put down 220-230wkw from a standstill - even with a dynoed 180wkw and LSD, I find it impossible to achieve WOT in 1st without it spinning up.


You have to remember that during the development phase of the RPW TT Magna, they were making 360hp at the front wheels on only 8psi of boost. Add another 3psi and grab a bit more timing with race fuel in the tank and it is highly likely a fwd will get 450hp atw.


No, I am hoping for 300 to 330hp at all four wheels, by the time the final installation and tuning is finished. I have more transmission losses than a fwd. I was merely projecting what could be achieved at 10.5 to 11.5 psi in an intercooled fwd with said fuel system and lots of timing.


I don't think I will have any trouble putting the power to the ground in my awd.

My awd weighs in excess of 1600kg.

All I need is an engine figure of 520nM at 5500 rpm or 480nM at 6000 rpm to achieve a flywheel figure in excess of 400hp. That will not even need a great deal of timing, just management of intake temps.

You have to remember that during the development phase of the RPW TT Magna, they were making 360hp at the front wheels on only 8psi of boost. Add another 3psi and grab a bit more timing with race fuel in the tank and it is highly likely a fwd will get 450hp atw.



Don't forget RPW use a hub dyno, so their readings are inflated compared to roller dynos. Also I'm not sure a measured 8psi from their setup (twin 28RS aka"disco potatos"?) is the same as 8psi measure from our blowers.

Depends on alot of things.

I know its semi-irrelevant, its like how with the same amount of boost on different turbos may make more power all through the rev range.

Mates 180's both sr20det one with a t28 (or whatever the s15 one is) and the other with a factory (t25?? or something). One is slower than my car and torqueless. The other is ****ing quick and has acceptable torque.

If he has combined good cams and heads with some higher compression but stronger internals it'll pull good numbers. I wouldn't bother dropping the compression for 11psi either (i'd up it).
Eg 3000gt TT conversions running 10:1 ratios at 11psi with dodgey as tunes. Won't go into details.

But serisously if i was going that far like tbb is i would TT not supercharge.

Ps should be a bypass valve on the supercharger for low throttle.

Pps first gear is for civics, which are gay.

Huh? I have a boost gauge and mine is *rarely* on boost.

Mine's the same, underload is when mine is on boost, cruising it's in vacume

Depends on alot of things.

I know its semi-irrelevant, its like how with the same amount of boost on different turbos may make more power all through the rev range.

Mates 180's both sr20det one with a t28 (or whatever the s15 one is) and the other with a factory (t25?? or something). One is slower than my car and torqueless. The other is ****ing quick and has acceptable torque.

If he has combined good cams and heads with some higher compression but stronger internals it'll pull good numbers. I wouldn't bother dropping the compression for 11psi either (i'd up it).
Eg 3000gt TT conversions running 10:1 ratios at 11psi with dodgey as tunes. Won't go into details.

But serisously if i was going that far like tbb is i would TT not supercharge.

Ps should be a bypass valve on the supercharger for low throttle.

Pps first gear is for civics, which are gay.

Larger turbos tend to produce more power then smaller turbos running the SAME amount of boost. This is the case as seen in alot of cars, and ill assume, has to do mainly with efficiency.

However, the larger turbo tends to incrase lag and comes on boost later (different to lag).

Also, keep in mind that if the smaller turbo is running in its efficient range, the benefits from going a larger turbo isnt as great.

One other point to mention, Turbos "tend" to be more efficient than superchargers running the same boost.

Don't forget RPW use a hub dyno, so their readings are inflated compared to roller dynos. Also I'm not sure a measured 8psi from their setup (twin 28RS aka"disco potatos"?) is the same as 8psi measure from our blowers.

looking at the size of the sprintex compressor, I'd say the volumetric rating is probably better than small turbos

But serisously if i was going that far like tbb is i would TT not supercharge.

Ps should be a bypass valve on the supercharger for low throttle.

Pps first gear is for civics, which are gay.

These units already have a bypass.

The next stage in the development of this car is a single turbo plumbed to blow through the s/c. That's why I have put in 8.8 CP pistons and the E11 management system.

Incrementally, the $$$ to go to the next stage should be nothing like that incurred to date.

It's crazy expense, but that's what it costs to have a unique car.

Some people spend upwards of $10,000 on in-car entertainment, personally I find the components under the bonnet more entertaining.

Some people spend upwards of $10,000 on in-car entertainment, personally I find the components under the bonnet more entertaining.


Me thinks GO before WHOA too.... nothing like a good sleeper to open your eyes....

:shock:

Larger turbos tend to produce more power then smaller turbos running the SAME amount of boost. This is the case as seen in alot of cars, and ill assume, has to do mainly with efficiency.

However, the larger turbo tends to incrase lag and comes on boost later (different to lag).



Basically yes. Physically i believe these are similar size with big improvements in the ball bearings.

Alot more important bits than the physical size. Turbine/Compressor size ratio/internal shape especially for lag. Also not to mention efficiency of bearings etc. There are charts that show how well they flow / rpm ie come on boost. Near identical to the ones you see for hydraulic pumps (which a turbo is anyway).

Ps turbo blowing through a supercharger... just no. Pretty sure sequential turbos bypass the smaller turbo. Just twin turbo it.

So TBB, your beast must be the one in the shop at RPW at the moment. When I was having a chat to David about options and ideas, he mention the intercooler setup that was being installed inside the plenum on a Sprintex supercharger at the moment. Once my warrenty is up, I am on the list to get that done.

The rising rate FPR was definitely on the cards. If I want to reduce or disable the 7th injector then I need to get more fuel in another way, but I do not want to oversize my main injectors. I have to keep reminding myself this car is meant to be my daily driver and yet one hell of a sleeper. So, I have decided to stick with my stock ECU and go the most fuel efficient fuel injectors, which are the 380s injectors, still to confirm with mitsubishi about compatibility. Then target my max power/torque at what these injectors will give me at a higher fuel rail pressure, using the Fuel Pressure Regulator. I was told about the Walbro fuel pump, but I am opting for the Bosch direct replacement racing fuel pump. Same size/shape/connections as the standard in-tank fuel pump but more than enough pressure/flow increase.

Then and only then, if I still have legs left in the FRP and the fuel injectors, then I will up the boost.

I realise that you do not need water injection if you go the route of the water-to-air intercooler, but I still think that I will, I will just not use as much water as if it was the only form of cooling. The water injection and water-to-air intercooler achieve similair ends, by similair AND different means. So I think I will go the best of both worlds. I know they will not have a cummulative effects but that is not what I am going for.

As for the LSD route, well I should call it the ATB (Automatic Torque Biasing) differential. As the manual and autos have different diameter half shafts I will not be able to go the Ralliart diff (sourced from the japanese FTO) and will instead go the Quaife unit, supplied and fitted by RPW.

I still suggest people have a look at the Brisk LGS Spark Plugs that I mentioned before. I saw a dyno on an '03 Cobra Mustang with NGK and then with Brisk LGS and the HP improved by 20HP and the Torque by 25ft/lbs, with only the plugs changed.

When I was having a chat to David about options and ideas, he mention the intercooler setup that was being installed inside the plenum on a Sprintex supercharger at the moment.
What needs to be modded in/on the plenum to make this intercooler kit work? I'm finding it hard to picture what the whole setup will be like.

The rising rate FPR was definitely on the cards. If I want to reduce or disable the 7th injector then I need to get more fuel in another way, but I do not want to oversize my main injectors. I have to keep reminding myself this car is meant to be my daily driver and yet one hell of a sleeper. So, I have decided to stick with my stock ECU and go the most fuel efficient fuel injectors, which are the 380s injectors, still to confirm with mitsubishi about compatibility. Then target my max power/torque at what these injectors will give me at a higher fuel rail pressure, using the Fuel Pressure Regulator. I was told about the Walbro fuel pump, but I am opting for the Bosch direct replacement racing fuel pump. Same size/shape/connections as the standard in-tank fuel pump but more than enough pressure/flow increase.

I still suggest people have a look at the Brisk LGS Spark Plugs that I mentioned before. I saw a dyno on an '03 Cobra Mustang with NGK and then with Brisk LGS and the HP improved by 20HP and the Torque by 25ft/lbs, with only the plugs changed.

In a boosted situation the FPR is pretty necessary. Could potentially fuel starve. 3000gt NA --> TT lads have had problems with this. Needs a rising rate for a much higher pressure.

Aftermarket ECU will be smoother more fuel efficient and make more power. 5 map points with a system designed for atmospheric pressure won't be ideal at all.

You can oversize injectors without worry (to a limit) as when tuned the larger injectors will have a lower duty cycle and are likely to be more efficient than stock ones at 90%. Not sure but the spray pattern should be improper with stockos at such high cycles.

also i have never see a car make more power solely due to spark plugs if they are in the right condition

What needs to be modded in/on the plenum to make this intercooler kit work? I'm finding it hard to picture what the whole setup will be like.

Look at this and then squash it. Might be a good idea to look at casting something.

35893

So TBB, your beast must be the one in the shop at RPW at the moment. When I was having a chat to David about options and ideas, he mention the intercooler setup that was being installed inside the plenum on a Sprintex supercharger at the moment. Once my warrenty is up, I am on the list to get that done.




Yes mine is the plain stock looking Gtvi.

It's going to surprise a few people at the lights.

OK, time for an update.

I have now had the Mitsubishi 380s injectors installed and even though they are 305cc instead of the magnas stock 275cc, I have reduce fuel consuption figures by about 1-2l/100km on highway driving. I will be driving back to Kalgoorlie tomorrow so I will update this post with the new fuel consumption. With the supercharger my last fuel consumption was 11.2l/100km from Perth to Kalgoorlie. [UPDATE: fuel consumption was 10.0l/100km from Perth to Kalgoorlie, with the 380s injectors]

I have also had a bigger fuel pump installed. I cannot remember the model number exactly (something like a GSS 332) but it was a Walbro intank 50mm fuel pump. Flows about 225l/hour @ about 4 1/2 Bar. It turned out that the closest Bosch Motorsport pump was 60mm diameter and thus unsuitable.

Also Magnas have a Rising rate fuel pressure regulator as stock. It is an MD319789, turns out to be made by a company called Airtex. I have heard that Magnas run a 3 Bar regulator, so I am going to ask Airtex for the specs on this regulator and see if they have one the exact same physical size/connections but at only 2.5 Bar. This will lower the output from the 380s injectors from 305cc to about 278cc. So, the stock ECU should function fine, without excess fuel usage. I am also going to chase up flow charts for both of the injectors, manga and 380.

Now my attention it leaning towards getting a genuine Ralliart LSD (ATB) and a couple of Magna Manual Half shafts and then get it all installed. The Ralliart LSD (ATB) needs the larger diameter half shafts from the Manuals, but I feel that can only work to my benefit.

Next thing is still to get the water injection installed. Also, if anyone has the Sprintex "stock" FWD progam for the piggyback ECU, I really need a copy of it. I am after the one supplied by sprintex, not one that someone has paid money to a tuner for. Also, if you do not have the program, could you do me the favour of asking around, as not all supercharged magna owners might be reading this thread.

Interesting, so the 380 injectors go straight in without any issues? Where did you get them from, and for how much?

If running a 10psi pulley, I wonder if the 380 injectors + the sprintex 7th injector would be up to fueling the setup safely.

With the ralliart LSD would it be easier/cheaper/cooler to get a Quaffe unit from RPW? from what ive read they are pretty much bulletproof, direct fit in dont have to change the half shafts and have a lifetime warranty on breakages. And no doubt cheaper overall. As for the walbro unit im keen on the part no could you get the exact number for me please? either in this thread or PM me it please.

Interesting, so the 380 injectors go straight in without any issues? Where did you get them from, and for how much?

If running a 10psi pulley, I wonder if the 380 injectors + the sprintex 7th injector would be up to fueling the setup safely.
Yes, the 380 injectors fit straight in. Got them from the "local" wreckers for $400 for all 6. Installed the front 3 myself with the help of my mechanic (well he did it and I helped him) and then asked Sprintex to do the back 3 and install the Brisk spark plugs at the same time that they were seeing to an oil leak. When you lift the fuel rail off the injectors and slide the injectors out, there is a fat black O-Ring that gets left behind in the manifold, the 380 injectors slide straight back into these fat black O-Rings and the fuel rails fit straight back on.

No, it is not safe to run the 380 injectors and the sprintex injector, without a fuel pump upgrade. Sprintex told me, when I first had the supercharger installed, that the fuel pressure was borderline with the 6 stock injectors, sprintex injector and the stock fuel pump. Now with an additional 180cc of fuel usage I think you may be in for trouble. I am sourcing a replacement fuel pressure regulator at the moment which will allow the 380s injectors to be run with a stock fuel pump and stock ECU. But since I already have the injectors in and the fuel pump upgraded, I am all good, just running a smidgen rich until I get this replacement fuel pressure regulator.


With the ralliart LSD would it be easier/cheaper/cooler to get a Quaffe unit from RPW? from what ive read they are pretty much bulletproof, direct fit in dont have to change the half shafts and have a lifetime warranty on breakages. And no doubt cheaper overall. As for the walbro unit im keen on the part no could you get the exact number for me please? either in this thread or PM me it please.
True, but the Ralliart LSD is that same type as the Quaife and fits into the Manual boxes without any issues. As for changing the half shaft on the auto, well, I would be happier running thicker half shafts anyway. Also I am one of those people that try to use Mitsubishi parts first and resort to aftermarket if all else fails. So, I will try to shoehorn the Ralliart LSD in and if all else fails I can fall back on the Quaife unit. By the way the Ralliart LSD is sourced from the Japanese FTO.

Regarding the fuel pump, I think it might be a Walbro GSS 342, but check with your mechanic first. Mine is away for 7 weeks drag racing in Florida, but I can find out exactly, when he gets back.

Why not just alter the fueling with the sprintx piggyback to compensate for the 380 injectors?

Why not just alter the fueling with the sprintx piggyback to compensate for the 380 injectors?


Because the sprintex ECU is a heap of ****. All it does is alter the crank angle sensor and control the 7th injetor. There is no direct control over the things you want.

The crappy ECU does have 1 use in my case, it's water/meth controller lol

Why not just alter the fueling with the sprintx piggyback to compensate for the 380 injectors?

IMO There's no reason why you can't, the SMT6 scales injectors just fine. Honestly, I'm getting a little tired of people jumping on the OMG THE SPRINTEX ECU SUCKS bandwagon. With most if not all of the breakages we've seen here, the fault has not been with the Sprintex ECU, but an incompetent tuner chucking out the Sprintex program.

Yes it's quite basic compared to pricier/newer stuff like replacement ECUs, but tuned correctly it does the job ok for most applications, and is a reasonable bit of kit for what it is.

Maybe there has been the odd exception, but I believe people here have blowing motors BECAUSE they are deviating away from the SMT6 and it's Sprintex map.

I have said this again and again, DO NOT chuck the Sprintex program unless your tuner REALLY knows what they are doing, as most have no clue how to safely tune for a natively NA-turned FI motor with no intercooling. The Sprintex program uses a temp sensor to monitor post-blower intake temps and pull timing to avoid detonation as it gets hot. If your tuner ****s with this, or uses a a different ECU and does not implement this safe guard, chances are you will be getting detonation in unusually hot situations and boom.

I think a good example of this is Wookiee. He did 5 full trackdays with the Sprintex ECU/maps and had no problem. He got a 3rd party tune with a blank SMT6 (i.e no Sprintex program), and his pistons/rings let go first time out within 3 laps or something like that.

I suggest most people are better off simply sticking to the stock Sprintex tune, or only changeing the tune if your tune tuner has the ability to edit the Sprintex map, rather than chucking it out (very few tuners, maybe only Sprintex and their dealers). Even then, if you are able to edit the Sprintex map, I suggest just have the AFRs tidied up (say 12:1 across the board @WOT), and leave the rest alone.

IMO There's no reason why you can't, the SMT6 scales injectors just fine. Honestly, I'm getting a little tired of people jumping on the OMG THE SPRINTEX ECU SUCKS bandwagon. With most if not all of the breakages we've seen here, the fault has not been with the Sprintex ECU, but an incompetent tuner chucking out the Sprintex program.

Yes it's quite basic compared to pricier/newer stuff like replacement ECUs, but tuned correctly it does the job ok for most applications, and is a reasonable bit of kit for what it is.

Maybe there has been the odd exception, but I believe people here have blowing motors BECAUSE they are deviating away from the SMT6 and it's Sprintex map.

I have said this again and again, DO NOT chuck the Sprintex program unless your tuner REALLY knows what they are doing, as most have no clue how to safely tune for a natively NA-turned FI motor with no intercooling. The Sprintex program uses a temp sensor to monitor post-blower intake temps and pull timing to avoid detonation as it gets hot. If your tuner ****s with this, or uses a a different ECU and does not implement this safe guard, chances are you will be getting detonation in unusually hot situations and boom.

I think a good example of this is Wookiee. He did 5 full trackdays with the Sprintex ECU/maps and had no problem. He got a 3rd party tune with a blank SMT6 (i.e no Sprintex program), and his pistons/rings let go first time out within 3 laps or something like that.

I suggest most people are better off simply sticking to the stock Sprintex tune, or only changeing the tune if your tune tuner has the ability to edit the Sprintex map, rather than chucking it out (very few tuners, maybe only Sprintex and their dealers). Even then, if you are able to edit the Sprintex map, I suggest just have the AFRs tidied up (say 12:1 across the board @WOT), and leave the rest alone.


Look legend in your own lunchbox (jezus that fits you), you have no idea what your on about with the SMT6. Why has so many peoples engine blown the same way, in my case it was rich as **** and **** all timing.

THE SMT6 HAS NO DIRECT CONTROL OVER ANYTHING APART FROM THE 7TH INJECTOR!!!!!!

How can something that intercepts the crank angle sensor to change fuel and ignition be good??? If that's what you think and that's what you believe then good for you. In the real world though, you need direct control over ignition and fuel (duh) otherwise you BLOW ENGINES (double duh).

For the people who want to use the stock sprintex tune, good on ya's, but for those who spent so much money on the kit to be limited by a crappy tune and want more (like me and so many others), the computer is a paper weight (or a water/meth controller :P ) and need something that's actually useable and reliable.

Now :gtfoslap:

IMO There's no reason why you can't, the SMT6 scales injectors just fine. Honestly, I'm getting a little tired of people jumping on the OMG THE SPRINTEX ECU SUCKS bandwagon. With most if not all of the breakages we've seen here, the fault has not been with the Sprintex ECU, but an incompetent tuner chucking out the Sprintex program.
...
I suggest most people are better off simply sticking to the stock Sprintex tune, or only changeing the tune if your tune tuner has the ability to edit the Sprintex map, rather than chucking it out (very few tuners, maybe only Sprintex and their dealers). Even then, if you are able to edit the Sprintex map, I suggest just have the AFRs tidied up (say 12:1 across the board @WOT), and leave the rest alone.

the reason you can't start with the Sprintex tune is because 99% of the SMT6s they supply are locked. you cannot unlock it without deleting the existing tune, and then you have to start from scratch (without the timing, fuel map and temp settings).

anyway, won't matter to me. WI should take care of all heat problems, and when I'm out of water/meth it'll revert to a very safe tune.

cheers,
.wook

Look legend in your own lunchbox (jezus that fits you), you have no idea what your on about with the SMT6. Why has so many peoples engine blown the same way, in my case it was rich as **** and **** all timing.

THE SMT6 HAS NO DIRECT CONTROL OVER ANYTHING APART FROM THE 7TH INJECTOR!!!!!!

How can something that intercepts the crank angle sensor to change fuel and ignition be good??? If that's what you think and that's what you believe then good for you. In the real world though, you need direct control over ignition and fuel (duh) otherwise you BLOW ENGINES (double duh).

For the people who want to use the stock sprintex tune, good on ya's, but for those who spent so much money on the kit to be limited by a crappy tune and want more (like me and so many others), the computer is a paper weight (or a water/meth controller :P ) and need something that's actually useable and reliable.

Now :gtfoslap:

Settle down buddy, no need to resort to personal insults.

IMO people have blown engines because they have been getting detonation when post-blower intake temps get too high, simply because there is too much ignition timing for those conditions. As I already said, the default Sprintex tune pulls timing as intake temps go up. People have been getting 3rd party tunes without this feature, and as a result detonation when temps get too hot. The issue isn't level of control, it's WRONG tuning practice for such a setup.

By the way this is not some crackpot theory I pulled out of my ****, this opinion is supported by a well-respected tuner who worked for 10years+ with Haltech, and has worked closely with the Sprintex setup.

The Sprintex management can certainly be improved upon, but my point is it does the job ok, as long as you don't try to mess with ignition timing and consequently experience detonation when intake temps got hot.. I believe when yourself and others have ditched the Sprintex tune, and goten a tune somewhere else, the tuners are simply advanving ignition until detonation, and then backing it off a bit to leave a small safety margin. THS DOES NOT WORK SAFELY WHEN YOU HAVE NO INTERCOLLING AND THEREFORE WILDLY VARYING INTAKE TEMPS. People like yourself have been quick to blame the SMT6 or piggyback ECUs in general, but I believe the problem lies not with the type of management, but the way it has been used by your tuners.

The bottom line is I advise if you are a Sprintex ownder and wanto 'fix up' the tune, make sure you find a tuner who is able to edit the Sprintex tune, rather than just chucking it out and starting again.

Honestly, sometimes I don't know why I bother going to the trouble of trying to find out good information and sharing it with AMC, when people like yourself would rather flame me than try to have a contructive discussion. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not see any more Sprintex owners blow pistons. If you knew this info yourself, you probably never would have blown your motor. So kindly don't jump down my throat for trying to correct misinformation and save people dramas thanks.


the reason you can't start with the Sprintex tune is because 99% of the SMT6s they supply are locked. you cannot unlock it without deleting the existing tune, and then you have to start from scratch (without the timing, fuel map and temp settings).

anyway, won't matter to me. WI should take care of all heat problems, and when I'm out of water/meth it'll revert to a very safe tune.

cheers,
.wook

Hey Luke,

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this, certain tuners (well I know of one in Sydney anyway) are able to edit the "locked" Sprintex ECU just fine. I know because I had this exact thing done, I had the AFRs tidied up, but (12:1@WOT across the board), but no other aspect of the Sprintex tune was touched. Actually they also got rid of a bit of 'roughness'/surging in part-throttle response, I wonder what was involved in doing that, perhaps just smoothing out the fueling?

I have done a track day at Wakefield and lots of daily driving kms on this tune without any problems.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this, certain tuners (well I know of one in Sydney anyway) are able to edit the "locked" Sprintex ECU just fine. I know because I had this exact thing done, I had the AFRs tidied up, but (12:1@WOT across the board), but no other aspect of the Sprintex tune was touched. Actually they also got rid of a bit of 'roughness'/surging in part-throttle response, I wonder what was involved in doing that, perhaps just smoothing out the fueling?

I have done a track day at Wakefield and lots of daily driving kms on this tune without any problems.
I would love to get a copy of your ECU tune or even the original tune before the tidying up? I have the AWD tune in my ECU and my car is a FWD. The timing is completely temperature independent (-7deg @ WOT), unlike the FWD tune. Now, I have the unlocked ECU, but the tune is locked. When I connect to the ECU it comes up with "NO TUNE Enabled", which as far as I can understand from the Perfect Power SMT6 Manual, means I can upload a new tune and then alter it from there but I cannot alter the tune that is already in there. Also I found out that the "Locked" ECU is a grey box whereas the "unlocked" ECU is a black box. Found this out from Keith who used to be with Sprintex.

My plan is to use boost controlled water injection. Then I should be able to reduce the 7th injector's duty and lessen the retard to the timing. With any luck I hope to get back to stock timing with no additional fuelling. Found a great site for water injection information http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html also has a photo of a Bosch Billet Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/fuelinjectors.htm.

there is a blank smt6 on ebay for about $400 i think.

smt6 is only there to make the kit affordable and provide a safe(ish) drive for the great unwashed.
It might also be there because it is from yarpie land which I think is the origin of some of the sprintex crew.

it does the job, but if you are hardcore ditch it and grab a haltech e8 or e11 and start gutting the s/c plenum chamber to take an intercooler.

I was reading through some websites and came across one that might explain the reason for the same two cylinders "giving out" on all of the supercharged magnas that did their engines in.

They are referring to a V2 motor on a motorbike but I think the same physics is involved; we just have 3 V2s side by side.

I quote http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrgauge.htm: "You want to monitor the front cylinder as it requires more fuel. The rear cylinder runs a bit warmer as it is shrouded and it needs less fuel...True, whether you believe it or not." and ""Cold" engines were dirty and needed more nasty hydocarbons to keep them happy."

Now I think they are referring to the way the cooling airflow passes over/around the motor, so the front cylinder runs cooler and hence needs more fuel, not sure why this is so, but someone on this forum might understand this better than me.

So it stands to reason that the two cylinders that "give" in our motors are the ones that are possibly the coolest (relative to the others) and hence they need more fuel. Since the fuel injection system doses the same amount of fuel to each cylinder by using direct port injection, it would follow that these two cylinders are not detonating because they are not receiving enough fuel and hence leaning out, but because these cylinders are requiring more fuel than the other cylinders, due to external factors.

Not sure if I have found a possible reason for the supercharged engine failures or not. Hopefully someone else can make better sense of this info; after all I may be taking it out of context or going off on a tangent.

I was reading through some websites and came across one that might explain the reason for the same two cylinders "giving out" on all of the supercharged magnas that did their engines in.

They are referring to a V2 motor on a motorbike but I think the same physics is involved; we just have 3 V2s side by side.

I quote http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/rsrgauge.htm: "You want to monitor the front cylinder as it requires more fuel. The rear cylinder runs a bit warmer as it is shrouded and it needs less fuel...True, whether you believe it or not." and ""Cold" engines were dirty and needed more nasty hydocarbons to keep them happy."

Now I think they are referring to the way the cooling airflow passes over/around the motor, so the front cylinder runs cooler and hence needs more fuel, not sure why this is so, but someone on this forum might understand this better than me.

So it stands to reason that the two cylinders that "give" in our motors are the ones that are possibly the coolest (relative to the others) and hence they need more fuel. Since the fuel injection system doses the same amount of fuel to each cylinder by using direct port injection, it would follow that these two cylinders are not detonating because they are not receiving enough fuel and hence leaning out, but because these cylinders are requiring more fuel than the other cylinders, due to external factors.

Not sure if I have found a possible reason for the supercharged engine failures or not. Hopefully someone else can make better sense of this info; after all I may be taking it out of context or going off on a tangent.

Not sure if thats the reason or not. Seems strange this only happens with the Sprintex kit, and not with other forms of FI, or even Na builds.

The Sprintex kit is gay...Should just buy a V8

that’s my well informed and experienced knowledge to this particular subject. :D

The Sprintex kit is gay...Should just buy a V8

that’s my well informed and experienced knowledge to this particular subject. :D

lol... not sure about the sprintex kit.. but why by a v8, my supercharged magna is faster than all stockish v8's and has heaps better fuel economy.. im getting 600+ k's per tank of fuel and thats city driving and im not exactly babying it either...

FYI... Bullet were the queensland dealer for the sprintex kit.. however never used the ecu provided with those kits.

std injectors are fine for the above, i made upwards of 188awkw on the dyno at less than 95% and extra inj only 60%
How did you find this out?

I have heard that there is a program called "live PC" or something like that. Using a cable that plugs into our OBD II port and then into a PC. Wonder if it works for the Automatic Transmission OBD II port as well? Trying to find out my transmission fluid temperature, my fuel injector's duty and my AFR.

How did you find this out?

I have heard that there is a program called "live PC" or something like that. Using a cable that plugs into our OBD II port and then into a PC. Wonder if it works for the Automatic Transmission OBD II port as well? Trying to find out my transmission fluid temperature, my fuel injector's duty and my AFR.
I doubt you will get a reply from andrewd. Anyway, he was always a very... inventive individual.

How did you find this out?

I have heard that there is a program called "live PC" or something like that. Using a cable that plugs into our OBD II port and then into a PC. Wonder if it works for the Automatic Transmission OBD II port as well? Trying to find out my transmission fluid temperature, my fuel injector's duty and my AFR.

You can get a Evoscan box that plugs into the magna plug and gives you simple things like your duty cycle etc. But nothing for AFR's to measure that usually you need to tap into the o2 sensor or tap into a vaccum line off the manifold.

My OBD2 scanner gives me all that info, AFR the works.

My OBD2 scanner gives me all that info, AFR the works.
And that scanner is called ?.... and is available from ?....

I got mine off ebay from the states, it's a Actron CP9180. There are heaps of other brands & models around you just have to look at the specs to make sure it includes what you need.

Here's a link to Actron's site http://www.actron.com/product_detail.php?pid=16318

KenShadow, an OBDII device won't work in 3rd Gen Magnas. They use the MUTII protocol instead.

Im not flaming or anything, butttt you havent cooked anything yet? then why go to all the extreme effort to find out things that either 1: Wont give you any more power 2: the cost vs benefits is crazy.

Ive had my sprintex now for 4months, done over 10,000k's 6000 of them with a custom tune direct from Tweakit, with AFR's at a steady 12.1, have not had one single issue with the gearbox, or the car leaning out (except when i had the stock pump in).

If you are keen on double checking what exactly the AFR's are doing and how the car is running, get a power run done, and get them to check the AFR's and boost levels.

Also QMD801, you sure they didnt use the SMT6? because they would of had to use that because of warranty purposes, and the fact that every sprintex owner running another ECU or an incorrectly done smt6 has cooked pistons, except the ones with forgies.

Im not flaming or anything, butttt you havent cooked anything yet? then why go to all the extreme effort to find out things that either 1: Wont give you any more power 2: the cost vs benefits is crazy.

Ive had my sprintex now for 4months, done over 10,000k's 6000 of them with a custom tune direct from Tweakit, with AFR's at a steady 12.1, have not had one single issue with the gearbox, or the car leaning out (except when i had the stock pump in).

If you are keen on double checking what exactly the AFR's are doing and how the car is running, get a power run done, and get them to check the AFR's and boost levels.

Also QMD801, you sure they didnt use the SMT6? because they would of had to use that because of warranty purposes, and the fact that every sprintex owner running another ECU or an incorrectly done smt6 has cooked pistons, except the ones with forgies.

+1

ive had the blower for a year and 20000km, i drive it like i stole it every day, ive never had a problem.

the sprintex kit isnt perfect, but i cant think of anyone that had problems with it unless they changed something themselves either by upping the boost or changing the ecu and removing the safety measures sprintex put in place.

+1 no problems Sprintex tune edited by Tweakit (smoother out the part-throttle roughness, 12:1@WOT).

Done 2 full track days and plenty of daily-driven kms.