Clutch in.

1st to neutral, clutch out.

clutch in, neutral to 2nd, clutch out.

and so on.

any one do this? and is this correct? notice a difference?

makes it feel alot smoother for me but is time consuming while learning lol

cheers, tim

Its mostly used when going down thru the gears.

Ya give it a little rev in nuetral to help it slip into the next gear down.

Its not necessary on a synchro box though. :D

not quite.

technically, double clutching is used to match the revs of the engine (and flywheel) to those of the gearbox. it's pretty much the up-shift equivalent of heel-toe'ing on down-shifts.

see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutch

cheers,
.wook

Its mostly used when going down thru the gears.

Ya give it a little rev in nuetral to help it slip into the next gear down.

Its not necessary on a synchro box though. :D

xactly... maybe if ur tranny is 500000 yrs old...

Here is the addy u want...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_clutching

love me too

EDIT: Wookiee beat me to it i see...

You'll be shifting slower than you are now timmy and you shift slow enough already :)

My rally car has 1st and 2nd straight cut and I often forget to double clutch down to second and end up hammering my gearbox all the time. Double clutching is pointless with standard gearing.

xactly... maybe if ur tranny is 500000 yrs old...


Or you're riding a motorbike without a slipper clutch, in which case it's done to prevent the back wheel from locking up from the increase in compression....not sure if that would happen in a car though :confused:

You'll be shifting slower than you are now timmy and you shift slow enough already :)

thinking about those poor synchros lol, or whats left of them

Double clutching is pointless with standard gearing.
I wouldnt say pointless as it will increase the life of ur manual tranny when downshifting... Especially big leaps...

with upshifting just let the revs drop a tad with clutch in, synchro's do the rest, unless going from like 2nd to 5th, in which case ur a tool.

Meh ...... if ya do it right it sounds cool on the downshift. lol

Pointless unless your box is on the way out. Having said I do it to get back into 1st from a rolling start and often to get it into second on a cold morning.

Learning to heel-toe downshift is way more practical, I cringe every time I hear someone putting it back into 2nd at 60 and letting the clutch take up all the slack.

I have a HR licence and hate double clutching....going down the gears you actually have to rev up while double clutching.....however in the truck i dont use a clutch unless i'm taking off or stoping...but would recommend that for a syncro box

ive always seen it as mostly pointless in most cars.. however on a big trip home last weekend, whenever overtaking, downshifting from 5th to 3rd, i found the shifts a lot smoother if i double clutched, so thats enough evidence for me to like it in that situation :)

I only double (de)clutch when jumping down 2 gears at once (5th to 3rd etc). Other than that, rev matching the down shifts pretty much does the job for me.

My gearbox is in lots of pieces at the moment, and the syncros are looking fine.

Used to do something like this in the old EK Holden to get it from 2nd to 1st - but then it didn't have a synchro 1st. (gotta love that old 3 speed)
Gotta be honest tho - most of the time it was just easier to just come to a stop then stick it in 1st. lol

Granny shifting is better

more so for shifting up rather than down. i just found it to be smoother, could just be me lol

more so for shifting up rather than down. i just found it to be smoother, could just be me lol

its smoother because ur going slower and matching.. try not taking your foot all the way of the accelerator for quick shifts,, just bring it back maybe an inch or so.. and you will rev match nicely into gear...

As already said, pointless in a car with syncros. Although I had to learn, as before the magna I was driving a SV21 camry with dodgy syncros on my L's and early P's. And I still do it occasonally for the fun of it.

What every manual driver needs to learn is accurate rev-matching, makes driving much more pleasant/smooth, it's nicer on the car (namely less clutch and brake wear), and it's something to do to help take the boredom out of daily driving.

Heel-toeing is a must for the track, though hardly necessary in street driving (doesn't stop me from doing it for fun).

As already said, pointless in a car with syncros.

but it can be useful for those times when you need to drive your car and the clutch is gone....

Many years ago, the clutch died in my (modified) Datsun 1200, and I had to drive it home without the clutch ;-)

The double clutching and heel-n-toeing I'd been practicing certainly was handy!

Cheers,
Martin.

double clutching in a car with synchros can actually make it shift without putting any strain on the synchros.

but you can also drive round without using the clutch if you know the right rev ranges to shift at. just rev it up and lift of the gas slowly, change gears nice and slowly and away you go again. going down you just knock it into neutral, give the throttle a blip and slot it into the gear below. changing down takes a lot more practice than going up as you have to know how much to blip the throttle between gears.

in regards to street use, most people think that double clutching is smoother but thats just because it is a longer process and they actually take the time to rev match, but really you should be able to do it in one whole process wheather your skiping gears or going straight through, clutch in, rev match during gear shift and clutch out, quicker, less "down" time where the car isn't accelerating and your leg will thank you. i only do it some times in my prelude because it doses, other than that pointless really.

I had to when learning in my dads work truck, Nissan Cabstar, that gearbox was on it's last legs for like ten years..

Heel-toe is fun sometimes..

My boss makes us do this at work in our brand new trucks with synchro boxes.
I asked the same question, is it necessary?

My father in law is a transmission rebuilder and he said, it is not necessary but in the long run, will help reduce the wear on the synchro cones. The key is also to shift slowely between gears also give the accelerator a slight tap when changing as it helps match the rev speed to gear speed making it easier to get into gear.

You can feel it when say you car changing a gear, when you are just about to go into the next gear, you put very slight pressure in the gear nob ready for next gear and when you give the revs a slight tap, you will feel the gear automatically slot in.

thanx for the responses guys.

last question, what exactly is heelntoe?

You can feel it when say you car changing a gear, when you are just about to go into the next gear, you put very slight pressure in the gear nob ready for next gear and when you give the revs a slight tap, you will feel the gear automatically slot in.

Is this with the in or out? Clutch in you shouldn't feel anything since the flywheel isn't connected to the input shaft of the gearbox.

Since we're all getting fancy with rev matching, can anyone drive smoothly without a clutch at all? I can get up and down all gears without the clutch or grinding gears, only do it occasionally for ****s and giggles though.

last question, what exactly is heelntoe?


Heel-and-toe is a driving technique used in performance driving[1]. It involves operating the throttle and brake pedals simultaneously with the right foot, while facilitating normal activation of the clutch with the left foot. It is used when braking and downshifting simultaneously (prior to entering a turn), and allows the driver to "blip" the throttle to raise the engine speed and smoothly engage the lower gear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heel-and-toe

Is this with the in or out? Clutch in you shouldn't feel anything since the flywheel isn't connected to the input shaft of the gearbox.

Since we're all getting fancy with rev matching, can anyone drive smoothly without a clutch at all? I can get up and down all gears without the clutch or grinding gears, only do it occasionally for ****s and giggles though.


Yes i practiced this in the magna. Downshifting is the hardest part. I found it is easier going from 4th to 3rd, than 3rd to 2nd.

Yes i practiced this in the magna. Downshifting is the hardest part. I found it is easier going from 4th to 3rd, than 3rd to 2nd.

Yeah brake a little while in neutral down to 35ish before trying 2nd. Lower revs means more room for error.

Since we're all getting fancy with rev matching, can anyone drive smoothly without a clutch at all? I can get up and down all gears without the clutch or grinding gears, only do it occasionally for ****s and giggles though.

Sure can. It's fun when I'm driving return cars back to work as they aint mine and are going straight to auctions. Can you also start the car and drive off without the clutch?

Put it in 2nd or 3rd on a flat road, turn it off... then without doing anything hold the key onto start... voila.

also piv, u do still feel the synchros line up and slot into gear with clutch in like he said. Try driving in 4th and slowly doing what he sed into 2nd or first with clutch in. You will definately feel it then, u will also hear the synchros winding up... but dont let the clutch out and do it slowly. "FamilyWagon" is right.

Sure can. It's fun when I'm driving return cars back to work as they aint mine and are going straight to auctions. Can you also start the car and drive off without the clutch?

Put it in 2nd or 3rd on a flat road, turn it off... then without doing anything hold the key onto start... voila.

also piv, u do still feel the synchros line up and slot into gear with clutch in like he said. Try driving in 4th and slowly doing what he sed into 2nd or first with clutch in. You will definately feel it then, u will also hear the synchros winding up... but dont let the clutch out and do it slowly. "FamilyWagon" is right.

Probably why my gearbox feels like it has gravel in it, people like you destroying cars before they're sold.

Yeah I can, I had to drive a friends corolla for him when the clutch cable snapped. Battery got pretty tired after the 3rd start in traffic, can't imagine the strain on the starter motor.

If you don't use the clutch to change gears then yeah you can feel the synchros through the gear lever in your hand, and you can hear the whine if you get the revs wrong before it's about to crunch. If you use the clutch though the input shaft is disconnected from the flywheel so you shouldn't really be able to feel anything in a healthy warm gearbox.

If you use the clutch though the input shaft is disconnected from the flywheel so you shouldn't really be able to feel anything in a healthy warm gearbox.

I also drive brand new cars everyday, with less than 5km's.
U made me think and now u r both correct. The clutch is before the tranny, so when clutch is in and driveshaft disconnected u feel the synchros spin to catch up with the relative speed that the g/box was spinning before u put clutch in, but u r right, u cannot rev it to change the feeling of pushin the knob through the gates. Only rev to match the input/output when taking clutch off.
So u r right and "FamilyWagon" is just feeling the synchros spin up, but there isnt any way to rev the car to make it shift in past gates better. Unless flat changing... :S

So u r right and "FamilyWagon" is just feeling the synchros spin up, but there isnt any way to rev the car to make it shift in past gates better. Unless flat changing... :S

No not really, but you know how a synchro is designed right? It's basically two metal cones on a spring that act like a brake to slow down/speed up the input shaft, if you use the lever gently it doesn't stress/wear them much, but if you snap it through gears or they're worn they don't really have time to do their job hence the grinding into gear when the spinning shafts teeth collide with the teeth of the next gear. Hence why the level basically falls into place when you double clutch, the gears are at the exact same speed.

I'm just rambling now, I think everyone gets it.