ok I've been running around on King Lows and KYBs for some time. They feel nice on on the street, and were ok when I started doing trackdays.

However now I'm looking for better control on the track, they are basically too soft and floaty-feeling for my liking.

I've been looking at a set of koni yellows with custon springs, but the Hotbits sports spec look like something worth looking into also.

So, please share your experiences with them. It seems some people have had major quality control issues in the past, but I'm hoping they've been sorted out by now?

I'm interested to hear what ralliart owners have to say, going from koni reds to hotbits.

Anyone taken them out on the track? How the perform on the track is my concern and reason for upgrading.

I guess the advantage over the konis is it saves me the hassles of trying/trial and error of trying to find the right springrate to use with them. But my concern is the hotbits are really just cheap rubbish when it comes to track performance, and that I'd be better of persevereing with a set of konis and trying to match them to the right springs.

i'm looking at going koni yellows myself, but not sure on what spring would be best suited

hotbits coilovers are overrated

koni FTW

best bet is to speak to someone like DMS and they could make up at set of shocks and spring combo for up, to suit the track

I have the koni yellows and lovell lows. They're set at the hardest setting :shock: and the ride can get a little harsh at times, but the handling and grip is wonderful.

It's probably not the best setup for the road, but hopefully it'll shine on the track.

Cheers,
.Wook

I have the koni yellows and lovell lows. They're set at the hardest setting :shock: and the ride can get a little harsh at times, but the handling and grip is wonderful.

It's probably not the best setup for the road, but hopefully it'll shine on the track.

Cheers,
.Wook
what did that set u back wook? and how low is your car with those springs?

hotbits coilovers are overrated

koni FTW



Care to elaborate?

I think the hotbits sports spec coilovers are fantastic, but then I upgraded to them after only having kings lows, and OEM struts, and don't have any real experience driving magnas with other suspension combinations, so I can't really compare it to anything else.

*touching wood* I also seem to be one of the lucky ones who hasn't had any issues with any of mine breaking, but I'm not convinced its "batch" related, because I'm pretty sure people who purchased Hotbits coilovers at the same time as me have had issues.

Mine are setup almost as low as you can go with the sports spec. I wound them down all the way once just for show, and it only ended up dropping the car about 5mm (10 at the absolute most) more than how I have them set for daily driving duties. I also have the rebound / damper adjustment set to only a few (5 or 7, cant remember) off the hardest setting.

Impressions on the car:
When I first drove it home, I thought I was going to end up with spinal injuries before the week was out, but I think that was more of a reaction to being able to feel absolutely everything the road was doing, as opposed to it being "harsh". By the 2nd time I drove it I was over that, and haven't had an issue with the firmness of the ride since.

I'm no race driver, so I can't really say with any authority whether or not they will make you go faster around a track, but I can say from my experience that I have a hell of alot more confidence cornering in my car, than in my partners car which only has Kings low / OEM combo. I feel like I can take much more aggressive lines thru corners, faster in my car without coming even close to the limits of traction. Sure you can still get into an understeer situation if you brake late and take stupid lines, but it's a big heavy front wheel drive - what do you expect.

I'm not saying they're going to be right for you, given the activities you partake in, but I hope this will help you make up your mind.

If i was ever going to put coilovers in my magna it would be a custom set from drummond motorsport but be prepared to sell ya left nut for them, in all honesty coilovers are a bit overkill on a "street" car. Most people buy coilovers for there street cars just so they can adjust the rideheight easily not for handling gains.

Im very happy with my koni yellow "sports" front inserts and koni "special d" (ralliart) rears which have combined very well with my custom rate springs and other suspenion mods, club members who have been in my car are surprised at how well it rides and handles.

I don't really care about height adjusment, the issue is how do hotbits go on the track compared to koni yellows with a well-matched springs. And of course they need to be bearable on the street.

I've been doing alot of reading of various forums and havn't found much useful info, beyond "yeah they are awesome" or "no they suck" (compared to more expensive stuff) blanket statments :(

Unless I find some good info, I guess the only way to find out what the hotbits are like is to take the gamble of buying them. In which case the koni yellows are a much safer option.

Mike: Thanks for your feedback, as you said, you can only directly compare them to the oem dampers with kings, and not directly to a koni setup :( Although from what you describe, you are obviously very happy with them, so that's quite encourageing.

Do any AMC sydneysiders have a koni yellow or hotbits-equipped magna they are happy to let me ride in or possibly even let me test drive?

When I was in the same boat as you, I was helped to make up my mind by the testimony of a member by the name of [SEIRYU] (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/member.php?u=2304). I don't think he's online much nowadays, but you might be able to catch him on MSN or something.

Basically he's got a Ralliart, and had sport spec coilovers installed he claimed it was a substantial improvement over the Ralliart suspension combo.

Also there is another member here in Qld who by the end of this week should have sport spec coilovers installed on their Ralliart. His screen name is QMD///801.


Most people buy coilovers for there street cars just so they can adjust the rideheight easily not for handling gains.

I must admit, rideheight adjustment did play a part in my decision. I've only used it once to date, but I do still like the idea that it is there. For example, I'm sitting on a BMS body kit which I hope to have installed on the car one day (If I can last more than 6 months without blowing a diff). If I end up having clearance issues with the kit installed I know I can raise the car, by myself in about an hour.

mine are getting fitted on monday, i can let you know then my initial feeling. as much as the handling of the ralliart stock is great. i personally don't feel comfortable with the how much horizontal movement the ralliart has. So I will be able to give you an evaluation on monday. however I do have 20"s so they probably aren't the best type of wheels to match the coilovers. but will let you know none the less.

another thing to look at is the repair bill if your hotbits break compared to that of the koni's

when I purchased my hot bits 2nd hand the person before me had broken one of the rear shafts. and had had them sitting too low and too soft. which had caused the fronts to start leaking and the shocks were in fairly bad condition. and the repair bill has come in at $1470 which includes fitting and adjusting to suit the car for a reduced amount.

My setup cost about $2k all up. I got the springs and dampers at different times, so if you got them together it would be a bit less.

Andy, if you're up for another day at Wakefield you can xome for a spin in my car on the 25th.

Cheers,
.Wook

mine are getting fitted on monday, i can let you know then my initial feeling.

when I purchased my hot bits 2nd hand the person before me had broken one of the rear shafts. and had had them sitting too low and too soft. which had caused the fronts to start leaking and the shocks were in fairly bad condition. and the repair bill has come in at $1470 which includes fitting and adjusting to suit the car for a reduced amount.

$1470 to repair them?:shock: I assume if I get them new Ill be covered by warrranty...how long does it last? What sort of turn around do you get on those? I don't wanto buya set, have one break, and then wait like 2 months before the car gets back on the road...


My setup cost about $2k all up. I got the springs and dampers at different times, so if you got them together it would be a bit less.

Andy, if you're up for another day at Wakefield you can xome for a spin in my car on the 25th.

Cheers,
.Wook

Interesting..is this a public-off-the-streets or private day? I'm not sure I wanto track my car again so soon, but I like the idea of coming out to check out your setup :)

I was looking into buying a set previously and spoke to a few people who had them, most of them werent happy and one told me to stay away from them and he was going back to koni's.

i have only driven 2 cars with hotbits coilovers, both cars with no other suspension work to my knowledge, only driven on the street NOT track, and with NO LSD

yes the cars did handle alot better than stock but NOT well enough for the price tag (unless u want height adjustment)

driven penalty of ralliart magnas and i feel they handle just as well as the hotbits coilovers, not as firm, but i can feel the control/road, i know whats happening to the car and can tell when I'm about to lose traction, also the car seems settle quicker. The big difference was the feel of the car, the steering is very nimble and light maybe its the LSD thats making the difference i can feel i would not have a clue

I currently have KYB with king super lows and all the bolt parts from whiteline, FRONT and REAR sway bars, castor and anitlift kit, camber pins and struct brace.

Even though my can handles the way i want it to and i feel whats happening to the front and rear of the car my steering is very heavy and i feel like i have to flight with the steering wheel at times

the biggest improvements i have may to the handling to my car for the track is the rear sway bar made a 1.5 sec consistent quicker time at QLD raceway sprint track

my most recent mod is the castor kit , has improved my turn in dramatically but haven't been on track since

i feel my setup handles better for me than the hotbits coilover, and if i was to upgrade, it would be koni's or a full package from DMS (approx. 3.5k)

I currently have KYB with king super lows and all the bolt parts from whiteline, FRONT and REAR sway bars, castor and anitlift kit, camber pins and struct brace.

Even though my can handles the way i want it to and i feel whats happening to the front and rear of the car my steering is very heavy and i feel like i have to flight with the steering wheel at times

I feel my setup handles better for me than the hotbits coilover, and if i was to upgrade, it would be koni's or a full package from DMS (approx. 3.5k)

Thanks for your input megatron.

When you say have KYBs, do you mean the Excel-G's, or adjustable AGX (which are supposedly comparable to konis)? I feel the Kings/Excel G feels great at 8/10ths on the street, but on the track when you are pushing on the limit, these days I find them dissapointing. Quite wallowy/floaty feeling, especially through the longer faster corners. And simply too much body roll, even with the swaybars. This is really noticeable at a couple places at Wakefield where you need to do a qiuck weight shift/directional change, trying to settle the car from mild oversteer to make it turn in the other direction.

I feel like I have very little feedback for what the front is doing. Combine this with r-comp tyres that basically don't queal on the limit, and it isn't exactly confidence-inspiring for feeling what the front end is doing.

Do DMS do a coilovers for magnas? I really cant justify/afford 3k+, but it's probably still worth looking into, just on the off-chance I decide it's worthwhile stretching/saving for them.

As for your steering being heavy, I noticed when I got my anti-lift/castor kit, the steering became much more heavier. Personally I think this is a great thing, as IMO the steering on our magnas is way too light and dead-feeling.

Yes. Previous person seemed to think he had only driven approx 1000k’s on the coilovers. Which considering he also said they were in perfect (but used) condition who really knows they could be however old.
The guy that is doing the rebuild for me believed they were very poorly set up and that it was a shame because in his opinion they are a great shock although for the price for the sport spec a little expensive. Its just a shame that they were Set too low and too soft. And it totally screwed one of them and the west are well worn.

The main reason I went for the Coilovers is because they are height and damper adjustable and with the infamous ralliart front bar being able to put it up at times will be an advantage I hope.

Once I get them fitted and set up properly (at this stage Monday) I will let you know how they go and also get Megatron to tell me his opinion after driving my car before and after.
I’m not real impressed with the stock ralliart suspension to be honest. I know its good and it does handle well its just the feeling and the movement I get unsettles me. While the car is still fine just something I couldn’t come to terms with although stock ralliart is def better than the KYB and king spring combo even though the Ralliart set up is not as stiff.

I hope matched with the LSD it will be enough to satisfy my requirements.

Will Let you know.

i was talking to a suspension place that told me that they can engineer almost any coli over you want to be a magna fittment

i say go the koni shocks and tuned spring combo...

the only benifit i see of the coil overs is the height adjustment, and the ability to easliy change springs if you require a different spring rate for track or street...

still dont see it as worth the extra few $$ over the traditional struts.. and over 2k with only dampening adj, no rebound if i rember correctly... also i dont know if you can specify you own spring rate... although you can order others at extra cost...

Thanks for your input megatron.

When you say have KYBs, do you mean the Excel-G's, or adjustable AGX (which are supposedly comparable to konis)?

Do DMS do a coilovers for magnas? I really cant justify/afford 3k+, but it's probably still worth looking into, just on the off-chance I decide it's worthwhile stretching/saving for them.



happy to help when i can but I'm no expert so just take my word as a grain of salt

i have the excel-G, BUT if the AGX are available for the magna that would be worth looking into as i have only heard good things about them, i too don't feel confidence in the KYB for high speed corners but i can feel whats happing

DMS don't have a coilover kit as such BUT they custom build most of the work anyways, and they are happy to build a kit for the magna for a particular job eg track/street

Previously i had custom shorten shocks with reset king super lows, which felt alot like the coilovers, extremely flat around corners, but i couldn't tell when i was going to break traction which i feel is very important

$1470 to repair them?:shock: I assume if I get them new Ill be covered by warrranty...how long does it last? What sort of turn around do you get on those? I don't wanto buya set, have one break, and then wait like 2 months before the car gets back on the road...



Interesting..is this a public-off-the-streets or private day? I'm not sure I wanto track my car again so soon, but I like the idea of coming out to check out your setup :)
It's the off-the-streets day. Feel free to drop down if you want.

And Jase, the lovells lows drop standard ride height by about 35mm. The eyebrow height is 360mm front and 370mm rear (670mm and 680mm from the floor to the guard on my 18s).

Cheers,
.Wook

To my knowledge KYB don't make adjustable AGX shocks for Magna, only Excel-G.
Only someone who do not have interest/knowledge in cars can compare KYB with Koni.

Ralliart has better suspension setup than any other Magna but don't expect miracles there. It has Koni red's which are nothing else than much, and I mean much better equivalent for stock shocks. They are made for comfort, not for racing. Remember, Ralliart is a family sedan, 25 KW more than Executive, bigger brakes and fancy body kit does not make it performance or race car.
Koni sport (yellow) shocks are adjustable and are used on race track.

I have King low's and Koni sport all around. Can not give you feedback from the race track, but I can tell you that they made big difference in everyday driving and I would not go back to any other brand ever.

You mentioned wallowy/floaty feeling through the longer faster corners. I don't know how many Km's have your KYB's done, but they are ready for the bin.
On the track you use semi slicks. Because they have much better grip than ordinary tyres they tend to highlight any weak spot you might have in suspension, steering and brake setup.
KYB's you have can not mach the quality of the tyres you use because they are not designed for the track , most likely are worn and overheated, hence wallowy feeling.

For everyday use you have 235/45/17 tyres. Fact is that bigger diameter rims and wider tyres are heavier than smaller rims and they wear suspension much quicker than factory setup. Throw in poor road surface and genuine shocks and springs will soon go out of puff.
Example, Altera wheel (205/65/15) weigh 17 kg ; VR-X 225/50/17 wheel weigh 21 kg ; FTO 215/55/16 wheel (currently on the car) weigh 19 kg.
4 kg's difference is 23.5% and that is a lot for genuine,ordinary, cheap shocks.

Ideally you want each corner to be as light as possible so suspension can do its job to keep the wheel in contact with the road. If it has to battle with excess weight it will overheat very soon and then forget about traction.
People often don't realise that when they upgrade to bigger diameter rims/wider tyres they also should upgrade their suspension as well or at least change it more often than usually.

For the same reason you change your tyres for the track, you need to change suspension and the brakes.
I know that you are familiar with this, it is just general explanation for other to get better understanding.

I believe you did a lot of research so maybe you came across some of this sites as well.

http://www.tuninglinx.com/html/koni-bilstein-shocks.html

http://www.koni-na.com/presentations/mustang/

http://www.whiteline.com.au/default.asp?page=/kits.htm

http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.billzilla.org/shockvalve.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.billzilla.org/suspensn.htm&h=1236&w=687&sz=114&hl=en&start=81&um=1&tbnid=rKmLRRPyNS0AMM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=83&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlowering%2Bcar%2B%26start%3D63%26svnu m%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26cr%3DcountryAU%26sa%3D N

There is also article about Myhill/Ullmer GTP Magna in the News

http://www.fastmagna.com

Excellent post, i286 !:)

Lovely post i286, plenty of great info :thumbsup:

I agree the KYBs overheat on the track, as I can feel them get softer/wallowy quite quickly. This is a common problem with twin tubed shocks with small pistons, they tend to retain too much heat.

Although my KYBs have only done around 15,000km, and feel fine in street driving.

You are right on the money about using r-comp semis, on street tyres my suspension felt much more controlled, as the tyres were more of a limiting factor. Basically the more grip you have, the more work your suspension has to do. While I found the r-comps a big improvement in consistency and break-away behaviour, in some ways they actually made my car handle worse, as the extra grip means more body roll, and therefore more work for the suspension to do under weight shift.

Apparently the konis being twin-tubed also have that issue, but probably to nowhere near the extent of the kybs. Serious track-goers seem to prefer monotube dampers like bilsteins or coilovers, as apprently using a single larger piston lets them deal with heat better.

Although the koni yellows are definantely well-established as great value for casual track use.

i was talking to a suspension place that told me that they can engineer almost any coli over you want to be a magna fittment

i say go the koni shocks and tuned spring combo...

the only benifit i see of the coil overs is the height adjustment, and the ability to easliy change springs if you require a different spring rate for track or street...

still dont see it as worth the extra few $$ over the traditional struts.. and over 2k with only dampening adj, no rebound if i rember correctly... also i dont know if you can specify you own spring rate... although you can order others at extra cost...

The issue with getting custom coilovers made is the price, e.g Jase from memory Jase was quoted something ridiculus like $2800 for a set made with koni reds (which don't have hard enough valving to deal with track-oriented springs anyway).

AFAIK compression and rebound are adjusted together via one knob, to keep them in proportion. This sounds good in theory, I hope it works in practice.

I'm gonna have a chat to hotbits and see what they have to say abour choice of spingrate, availablity of different springs etc.

hi guys. I just got koni yellows today but i could only get front at this point because there are no back ones around for about 2 months until the next shipment comes in. :rant:

The issue with getting custom coilovers made is the price, e.g Jase from memory Jase was quoted something ridiculus like $2800 for a set made with koni reds (which don't have hard enough valving to deal with track-oriented springs anyway).

AFAIK compression and rebound are adjusted together via one knob, to keep them in proportion. This sounds good in theory, I hope it works in practice.

I'm gonna have a chat to hotbits and see what they have to say abour choice of spingrate, availablity of different springs etc.

mine are getting fitted up on monday. So I will let you know.. will also let Megatron have a drive see what he thinks compared to stock ralliart suspension..
Ralliart suspension is great and I know it handles well and is stable and easy to recover. i just don't think its firm enough.. there is alot of swaying from side to side, while it still keeps traction and i can take corners same or faster than my old car. kings and kybs. i found that my old car felt more stable less swaying from side to side. and im more confident when it isn't swaying from side to side.
but will wait to monday and let you know.

I purchased my hot bits 2nd hand the person before me had broken one of the rear shafts. and had had them sitting too low and too soft. which had caused the fronts to start leaking and the shocks were in fairly bad condition.

Thats interesting, maybe having mine setup as firm as they are is what has saved me from having any failures. You rode in my car pretty much all day on the Nav run mate, I take it you didn't find the ride to firm/harsh?

Could it be that the guys who've had problems with hotbits were running them fullsick dumped height at low damping? if so, this is a recipe for frequent bottoming out, so hotbits can hardly be blamed for brocken coilovers if this is often the case.

Could it be that the guys who've had problems with hotbits were running them fullsick dumped height at low damping? if so, this is a recipe for frequent bottoming out, so hotbits can hardly be blamed for brocken coilovers if this is often the case.

they did change the design of the rear units, i have seen both, just a regular looking coil over not to different from the std set up if ou know what i mean, then the other type with massive remote (but not technically) maybe piggy back fluid reservoir

i had the ralliart standard suspension but have had coilovers for over a year now. ride is firm i think mine are set around 20. not much lower than the standard ralliart, more lowered to make the car sit flat. i think they handle very well.

if you got any questions feel free to ask.

the 1st type
http://www.kia-fx.com/Sephia9801/hotbits2.jpg





the 2nd type
http://www.davenportracingusa.com/images/hotbits_evo9_tn.jpg
tyne pics but notice the difference, obviously neither are magna models, but the diference is what im getting at

the 1st type
http://www.kia-fx.com/Sephia9801/hotbits2.jpg





the 2nd type
http://www.davenportracingusa.com/images/hotbits_evo9_tn.jpg
tyne pics but notice the difference, obviously neither are magna models, but the diference is what im getting at

mine are the colour of the top but have the extra bits on the rear ones

i had the ralliart standard suspension but have had coilovers for over a year now. ride is firm i think mine are set around 20. not much lower than the standard ralliart, more lowered to make the car sit flat. i think they handle very well.

if you got any questions feel free to ask.

I'd love to hear a detailed description of how the perform when pushed compared to the konis :)

mine are the colour of the top but have the extra bits on the rear ones

Ditto.

I think AndrewD has posted a pic of the sports specs (top) and the race spec (bottom), because as far as I know the race spec has the adjustable strut tops on the fronts (visable in the pic), and apparently also has the secondary canister on the fronts judging by those pics.

If I have to make decision what to buy, I would make a compromise between road and track use and would go with Koni's or Bilstein's.
Bilstein is, as you know, mono tube high pressure gas shock.
I was quoted $1,300 for them which is a fraction more than what I have paid for Koni's.
Not trying to talk you into anything, just sharing my experience and my humble opinion.

Do not have any experience with coilovers, but, in my opinion what you buy from HotBits is on the lower end of the scale. They may be good for someone who use car for the show, or the smaller, lighter cars. Magna is nose heavy car and for occasional track stint I would prefer reliable, known brand like Eibach, Bilstein, Koni, Ohlins, just to name a few.

I know it is hard sometimes to balance all the factors, money is one of them, when modifying the car but, it pays in the long term, to find as much information as possible, to fully understand what one is doing, to sleep over and make decision when brain is in good working order, not when it is running on adrenalin

One more link http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fd3s.net/Bilstein_coilovers.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fd3s.net/suspension.html&h=389&w=360&sz=33&hl=en&start=48&um=1&tbnid=b6JQCMsiqr1dNM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbrand%2Bname%2Bcoilover%2B%26start%3D 42%26svnum%3D10%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN

Everyone keeps talking about how coilovers aren't worth the extra money, but I was quoted over $1100 for a set of adjustable konis all round for my car when I was shopping for a suspension upgrade. Add the price of aftermarket springs and you're looking at ~$1500 for the suspension hardware. My coilovers were $2000. I figured an extra $500 was a pretty reasonable price to pay for on-car height rebound and dampening adjustment - but thats just me.

I'd love to hear a detailed description of how the perform when pushed compared to the konis :)
lol its been a year since i drove on the konis but from what i remember when i got them car felt like it was on rails.

normal driving they just feel harder, but 80+ you start to feel them work. i haven't been on the track yet, would like to, but haven't had a chance.
if you can go for a drive with someone that has them, best way to see.

maybe once jase gets his ralliart back on the road we could see the difference, other than his being faster still might be able to test out handling. then can let you guys know

being able to change the height was another thing for me, my driveways fair steep so wanted to have the car low but also get up the driveway

Thats interesting, maybe having mine setup as firm as they are is what has saved me from having any failures. You rode in my car pretty much all day on the Nav run mate, I take it you didn't find the ride to firm/harsh?

mate riding in your car is what made me fall in love with them !

i found it quite well and the way you took corners and how it sat is exactly how I want my car to feel.


Yes, i believe the people having trouble with the coilovers especially the rears breaking are because they ahve had them too low and too soft. which yes mike, is probably why yours are fine.

Andy, if you're up for another day at Wakefield you can xome for a spin in my car on the 25th.

Cheers,
.Wook

I'd love to but I have uni that day. Don't rule it though, I might find a way to make it :)

Btw you mentioned you have your koni yellows on max rebound with the Lovells, I think you'll find it may feel nice and stiff on the road trundling around, but will give you problems at the track, depending on how stiff the Lovells are.

If you have too much rebound for your spring rate, what happens is the dampers actually keep the springs partially compressed, as they are not strong enough to push agains the damper back to full height.

You'll find this will give you all sorts of problems, as effectively your springs are partially compressed even with no load. E.g you'll find when you come off the brakes, the nose is too slow returning from its dive, and you end up trying to turn-in with the nose still digging down.

By having too much rebound for your spring rate, you are basically making the dampers try to do the job of the springs, which doesn't make for very good chassis behaviour.

Another thing you might want to look at if you havent already is upgraded Engine mounts. I have just upgraded (Street spec from megatron) and this has made a huge difference to how my car reponds to the road!
coilovers getting fitted on Monday!
can't wait....

OK now I'm a bit confused.

I rang up Hotbits, and they quoted me $2500 for their "DT1" coilovers, which use a 40mm piston and has "40 clicks of adjustment". Now is this sounds like the same product as "sports" spec members have on here, or something else?

If so, then how come people here seem to be getting them for around $2000? Where have AMCers being buying them from? perhaps they are cheaper through Philcom etc because they are orded in batches?

OK now I'm a bit confused.

I rang up Hotbits, and they quoted me $2500 for their "DT1" coilovers, which use a 40mm piston and has "40 clicks of adjustment". Now is this sounds like the same product as "sports" spec members have on here, or something else?

If so, then how come people here seem to be getting them for around $2000? Where have AMCers being buying them from? perhaps they are cheaper through Philcom etc because they are orded in batches?

That would be them. Most (if not all) AMC members with this product would have purchased them thru philcom rally. The previous owner of Philcom did a special price of $2000 for these just before he sold the business and thats when I purchased mine, but they were shipped from Melbourne (not Adelaide where Philcom Rally is located), so I'm guessing they were shipped direct from Hotbits Aust.

Pretty sure the original price when Philcom listed them was closer to $2500. PM Shawn from philcom and see what price he can get them for.

**edited** - found linky (http://www.aussiemagna.com//forums/showthread.php?t=41186)

OK now I'm a bit confused.

I rang up Hotbits, and they quoted me $2500 for their "DT1" coilovers, which use a 40mm piston and has "40 clicks of adjustment". Now is this sounds like the same product as "sports" spec members have on here, or something else?

If so, then how come people here seem to be getting them for around $2000? Where have AMCers being buying them from? perhaps they are cheaper through Philcom etc because they are orded in batches?

i got quoted the same when i called them months ago :confused: and something like $2100 for the regular ones :rant:

phillcom is the place to get them from! and mentioned

coilovers getting fitted on Monday!
can't wait....

Saw the pic you sms'ed me of the car looking nice and low. So how does it drive??

atm its too low to really test it out.. its scrubbing like you wouldn't believe there are pics in the other thread... but.. its alot stiffer now and seems to be more resposive and direct.

not just either need to fix up the guards, or raise it a lil ot stop it from scrubbing whilst going in a straight line.

Ok, I have been investigating these:

http://www.bcec.com.tw/products/br.html

Review here:

http://features.evolutionm.net/article.php?id=84

Now, they have an item no. B-01, listed for 98-04 Galant, and 95 onwards Eclipse. I have an inkling these fit fit our magnas (asking Dave what he thinks). If so, then it seems like they may be a much better product than the Ksport and Hotbits coilovers (depending on how you interpret the breakages, I suspect/hope its people letting them bottom out from being too low/soft).

A guy from evolutionoz is trying to organise a groupbuy of them, as they do look to be a great product, and priced VERY well for what they seem to do:

Pricing:
1 unit @ 850 USD each
5 units @ 650 USD each
10 units @ 610 USD each
20 units @ 575 USD each

Shipping:
130 USD per unit

Can anyone here help me try to comfirm if the Galant/Eclipse set fit our magnas (looks for Jason), if so it looks like a fantastic buy, although there is an element of risk in buying something with no local support and based on one review, trying to find out more about them.

well i got by my fears of hearing it scrubb today.. and did some hooning around..
now I have them set fairly low.. like the pics in my other thread here if you haven't already seen... i have the fronts set 5 clicks back from the hardest setting. and the rears 3 clicks back..

and can I say DAMN!!! it corners like its on rails... IMO its a huge benefit thus far.. I feel alot more in control the car goes where I want it to and I can feel what I want. also accel and braking are also alot better.. and I no longer get the wheelspin above 5k in first...
I would like to put my old 17's on and see how it goes... without it scrubbing and carrying on.
but In my opinion and for the way I want my car to drive and feel its a huge step up from the stock ralliart suspension. whether its enough to shave a second or 2 off a laptime I don't know as my ralliart hasn't seen the track yet.
and although it is stiff its still not a harsh ride. as you don't get the bottoming out of the shock.

but after my little bit of spirited driving they are awesom and im more than happy with the performance.

Thanks for your feedback, good to hear :)

Well I got in touch with Jimmy Myhill, who runs a magna in IPRA SA, and got plenty of advice/figures off him for setup.

He runs 500lbs springs in the front, and 450 in the rear. For something with so little weight in the back, that's rather stiff. He suggests some of the other guys with magnas actually may run even run a little higher in the rear.

He suggested those springrates are gonna be pretty harsh on the road, and I should probably go for something like 350-400lbs front, 300-350lbs rear.

I'm not ruling out koni yellows yet, so I'll find out if they are suited to those springrates. If I end up with coilovers, then I have some idea of what springrates to order with them.

He gave me contact details for 2 other IPRA magna runners, so it'll be interesting to see what they have to say. Hopefully one of them has experience with cheaper gear, the setup Jim's running is a little out of my pricerange;)

Do you happen to know what the default spring rates are that come with the hotbits sports spec coilovers.

Well I got in touch with Jimmy Myhill, who runs a magna in IPRA SA, and got plenty of advice/figures off him for setup.

He runs 500lbs springs in the front, and 450 in the rear. For something with so little weight in the back, that's rather stiff. He suggests some of the other guys with magnas actually may run even run a little higher in the rear.

He suggested those springrates are gonna be pretty harsh on the road, and I should probably go for something like 350-400lbs front, 300-350lbs rear.

I'm not ruling out koni yellows yet, so I'll find out if they are suited to those springrates. If I end up with coilovers, then I have some idea of what springrates to order with them.


He gave me contact details for 2 other IPRA magna runners, so it'll be interesting to see what they have to say. Hopefully one of them has experience with cheaper gear, the setup Jim's running is a little out of my pricerange;)


One thing you must remember is jims car actually runs a large fuel cell in the boot to get as much weight rearward to help even up the front/rear weight and as i said to you in the PM messages each driver is different on how they like there cars setup.

I know rob chadwicks GTP magna (2001) used to be fairly soft in the back, spring rate wise as he liked the rear to roll a bit on corner entry whereas steve knight was the opposite with his spring rates.

Another thing to consider is that full slicks can handle higher spring rates due to the tyres high grip levels, a normal road tyre on the other hand will get all skatey/skittery when the spring rates are to high due to there grip level not being able to handle it.

Give Ian Eddy a call about his race magnas suspension his car is a fair bit faster around a track than jims.

Cheers Jason :)

Obviously it's gonna be a matter of finding out what suits my preference, but it's great to have a rough idea of the range of springrates I'm gonna be trying out/thinking over.

Btw. I was under the impression the rates you PMed me would be too high for the koni yellows, so that's interesting. I assume you would be on the edge of what they can handle without needing to be revalved?

Also AFAIK the IP cars use the same r-comps as I have as their control tyre, so that does makt it easier to compare spring rates.

Had a chat to Wholesale Suspension.

For comparisons sake my King Lows are 185lbs at the front, and factory is 120lbs. I'm still researching, but looks like I'll be going for 350-400lbs front, 250-300lbs rear.

The guy suggests for my car the valving in the koni yellows is really good for up to about 300lbs max, and ideally around 200-250lbs. So it seems if I go with Koni yellows, they are gonna need to be revalved, which costs $190 each pair.

If you add the cost of custom springs + revalving, the overall cost works out about much the same as the Hotbits DT1s, so unless someone convinces me the koni setup would be better, I'm probably gonna go with the hotbits (although still looking for other options to consider, such as the BC coilovers).

EDIT: had a good chat to Eddy Wreckers who also run an IPRA car, seems around 400lbs front 350lbs rear is a good place to start.

Had a chat to Wholesale Suspension.

For comparisons sake my King Lows are 185lbs at the front, and factory is 120lbs. I'm still researching, but looks like I'll be going for 350-400lbs front, 250-300lbs rear.

The guy suggests for my car the valving in the koni yellows is really good for up to about 300lbs max, and ideally around 200-250lbs. So it seems if I go with Koni yellows, they are gonna need to be revalved, which costs $190 each pair.

If you add the cost of custom springs + revalving, the overall cost works out about much the same as the Hotbits DT1s, so unless someone convinces me the koni setup would be better, I'm probably gonna go with the hotbits (although still looking for other options to consider, such as the BC coilovers).

EDIT: had a good chat to Eddy Wreckers who also run an IPRA car, seems around 400lbs front 350lbs rear is a good place to start.


Give Toperformance (03) 98731722 a call and chat to them about Koni's are they are the actual importers of koni stuff into this country.
MMAL dealt with them direct for the setting up of the ralliart magna koni struts and then they supplied the full production units as well.

Its interesting that the place you spoke to said the yellows would need revalving at $190 a pair, mine have preformed fine with my spring rates which are pretty high.

Also remember that your going to have to "experiment" with spring rates until you find what suits you not what suits everyone else, so no matter if ya buy "cheapish" coilovers or konis/custom springs, you maybe looking at a couple of sets of springs for either setup to get it how you want it, but then is the "damping rate" of the coilovers going to be any good if you change spring rates from what is supplied with them?

Give Toperformance (03) 98731722 a call and chat to them about Koni's are they are the actual importers of koni stuff into this country.

Its interesting that the place you spoke to said the yellows would need revalving at $190 a pair, mine have preformed fine with my spring rates which are pretty high.

Also remember that your going to have to "experiment" with spring rates until you find what suits you not what suits everyone else, so no matter if ya buy "cheapish" coilovers or konis/custom springs, you maybe looking at a couple of sets of springs for either setup to get it how you want it, but then is the "damping rate" of the coilovers going to be any good if you change spring rates from what is supplied with them?

I did, I had a chat to them, and they pointed me to the NSW koni distributor Wholesale Suspension. They gave me identical advice, that for a ~400lbs spring the konis should be revalved to suit. They said 400lbs springs would drive "ok" with original valving, just the setup won't perform ideally on the track. they reckon 300lbs is about the limit for optimum performance, without revalving.

Hotbits claim they can make a set of coilovers with custom valving to suit an approxiamate spring rate I nomiate, but they quoted me $2500 to do this.

For those interested in, here's a repost from a similar thread I have on another forums:

Havn't had any luck finding anything overseas, there is basically no track-oriented aftermarket support for my car, here or overseas, besides Hotbits, who have done Rnd on my car and make coilovers for it.

So it's still looking like Hotbits vs koni sports (still considering Bilstein/Heasmans, but the cost is hard to justify/afford).

From my internet research, it seems the koni yellows, being a twin-tube design have problem with heat buildup and tend to "go off" quickly? How bad is the problem? I'd like to be able to 6-7 laps in one session around Wakefield without the shocks going off too badly. Would the koni yellows last out on the track supporting 1400kg+, or would they simply go off badly after a couple of laps?

What about the hotbits coilovers with 40m single pistons? Would they be likely to stay consistent on the track?

Also I read on here the konis can have durability issues when revalved for higher spring rates? Would something like a 400lbs spring be likely to cause issues with durability?

Any comments/experiences relevent to these questions?

http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets.html

IMO a nice read for getting into some of the the nitty-gritty of track/performance-oriented suspension setup. Has some FWD-specific info for tracking too, including Mcpherson strut setups, so it's very useful to me.

Basically the rules for setting up a quick FWD are completely different to RWD, so it's an interesting read IMO. E.g you want oversteer on corner-entry, and a very front-heavy weight distribution is actually desirable.

FYI.

had the sunny coast cruise this weekend which consisted of a very long mountain run.. about 100km or fairly solid twisty's both on smooth road and extremely bumpy.

end result!
I'm soo happy i spent the money on coilovers, the car sits 100 times better, i can feel everything the car is doing, i can feel as soon as its starting to loose traction, and best of all it holds solid to the ground even on uneven roads and tight turns the car feels in a league of its own now.

I can't say that they are definitly alot better than the stock ralliart set up. but I have the confidence to push alot harder than I previously did, and to me thats enough, im happy with how it is now. and how well the car performs with heavy chrome 20" wheels I would love to see it with some lightweight 18's and good track rubber.

I've been driving around for a while on the coilovers and can say for everyday street driving the car is in no way uncomfortable, yes it is a lil bumpier than normal but comparing to a friends car with king superlows and kyb's and 20" rims, I would rather my car any day of the week, and through twisties on the street the car feels so smooth, its to the point where I want the traffic to get heavy so I can weave in and out on the freeway. (not that I would do this, I just wanna go around corners.)

IMO I think for the amount of effort and money you would go to find springs and shocks to suit your needs, for a similar price you can get the coilovers and i would be 99% certain they would meet your needs,

Thanks for your input mate, the more testimony I have the better :)

Unfortunantely, I havn't come across any direct comparisons between the hotbits and koni yellows (which are different to the reds), so I fear in the end it's gonna be a bit of a gamble when it comes to which way to go.

If I have to make decision what to buy, I would make a compromise between road and track use and would go with Koni's or Bilstein's.
Bilstein is, as you know, mono tube high pressure gas shock.
I was quoted $1,300 for them which is a fraction more than what I have paid for Koni's.

Who quoted you $1,300? (For the set I assume?). Heasmans in Sydney (NSW Bilstein rep) quoted me $1400 each end, + cost of springs. So all up I'm looking at around 2k for a revalved koni yellow setup, or 3k for Bilstein.

From from my research it seems correctly valved bilsteins are better than konis overall, but probably not worth the difference in price. I was told the price is so high because there is alot of custom work involved.

Quadrant suspensions, and that was way back in 2003. Quote was for the set.

http://www.quadrantsuspensions.com.au/

Who quoted you $1,300? (For the set I assume?). Heasmans in Sydney (NSW Bilstein rep) quoted me $1400 each end, + cost of springs. So all up I'm looking at around 2k for a revalved koni yellow setup, or 3k for Bilstein.

From from my research it seems correctly valved bilsteins are better than konis overall, but probably not worth the difference in price. I was told the price is so high because there is alot of custom work involved.

If you know what sort of valved you want then you could just get Koni Reds and get them valved to suit... honestly have no idea what the valving means... but I know when I had my coil's reconditioned they said that if I found a setting I liked best then they could set other non adjustable shocks the same as this..

Chisholm, another good read you could find useful

http://www.smithees-racetech.com.au/.

I have koni reds. Is it possible to get them refreshed [they are almost 60k old] and revalved to suit heavyer spring rates such as 220~300lbs?

I have koni reds. Is it possible to get them refreshed [they are almost 60k old] and revalved to suit heavyer spring rates such as 220~300lbs?
yes... just don't expect it to be quickly ;o)

I have koni reds. Is it possible to get them refreshed [they are almost 60k old] and revalved to suit heavyer spring rates such as 220~300lbs?

Absolutely, talk to Wholesale Suspension, they are the NSW distributor for koni. They will be supplying and revalving my koni yellows, and can also supply custom springs from Kings.

well the suspension gear has been ordered, will be fitted by Heasmans in Sydney when it arrives.

-Custom order springs from Kings - 400lbs front, 350 rear (King Lows for my car are 185lbs). Gonna keep ride height about the same as the King Lows (40mm drop).

-Koni yellows - revalved to suit my springs.

-polyutherane bushes from Superpro.

Havn't mind up my mind about adjustable strut tops yet, and deciding on solid vs poly - Guy at Noltec reckon the polys might not last long with my springrate, but I'm worried solid will be too harsh for the street.

My camber bolt kit gives up to 2.25-2.5 deg of negative camber, but 3-4 deg seems to be ideal for R-comps. So with the adjustable strut tops will give me a larger range of adjsutability, and I would be able to switch easily between track and road alignments.

I used to use adjustable strut top mounts on my Brocks - worth every cent for track days. I found polys way to harsh with 50 series P-Zeros (v stiff sidewall) and on Koni yellows back then. Wouldn't recommend it now unless you are either running supple vavling on the dampers or > 50 series profile tyres. Also, tried poly bushes on my Alpina B10 and found them effective but distractingly noisey once they had a few k's on them. Constantly had to pull them out and lube contact points, partic on anti roll bars. Tip would be to ask the installers what they are going to lubricate the bushes with to stop the noise....

well the suspension gear has been ordered, will be fitted by Heasmans in Sydney when it arrives.

-Custom order springs from Kings - 400lbs front, 350 rear (King Lows for my car are 185lbs). Gonna keep ride height about the same as the King Lows (40mm drop).

-Koni yellows - revalved to suit my springs.

-polyutherane bushes from Superpro.

Havn't mind up my mind about adjustable strut tops yet, and deciding on solid vs poly - Guy at Noltec reckon the polys might not last long with my springrate, but I'm worried solid will be too harsh for the street.

My camber bolt kit gives up to 2.25-2.5 deg of negative camber, but 3-4 deg seems to be ideal for R-comps. So with the adjustable strut tops will give me a larger range of adjsutability, and I would be able to switch easily between track and road alignments.
who did you order all your gear through?

who did you order all your gear through?

Actually Heasmans have ordered the stuff for me, as they are doing the fitting anyway. But you can order the stuff through Wholesale Suspension in penrith, they are the NSW koni and King rep.

The bushes I ordered from Fulcrum, but you might be able to them from Wholesale as well.


I used to use adjustable strut top mounts on my Brocks - worth every cent for track days. I found polys way to harsh with 50 series P-Zeros (v stiff sidewall) and on Koni yellows back then. Wouldn't recommend it now unless you are either running supple vavling on the dampers or > 50 series profile tyres. Also, tried poly bushes on my Alpina B10 and found them effective but distractingly noisey once they had a few k's on them. Constantly had to pull them out and lube contact points, partic on anti roll bars. Tip would be to ask the installers what they are going to lubricate the bushes with to stop the noise....

Supposedly if they are lubed correctly to begin with, they shouldn't need any maintence for years. I've spoken to a fair few people about them, it seems the common problems associated with poly bushes is usually due to using an inferior brand, bad installion/lubing etc. With my spring rates I really wanto reduce compliance in the bushes, I just hope I don't have any issues with them. Only one way to find out :)

With my spring rates I really wanto reduce compliance in the bushes, I just hope I don't have any issues with them. Only one way to find out :)

Oh hell yeah! I'm all for playing - keeps us outa the pubs lol