OK, i am a little confused man.

Turbo, involves a....turbo?
Supercharger involves a....supercharger.
whattt the helll is VTEC? and how does it work?

i searched on google, but it was in lingo i couldnt really udnerstand, a bit to techy for myself...help?

variable timing or somthing to do with the cams

well i just searched google. u didnt do a good job of it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VTEC

variable timing or somthing to do with the cams

lol that is too techy for me, how does it know when to kick in?

i get the general idea from the google things, but how does it differ in power to a supercharger.

or if u drive a VTEC engine, under the VTEC line, will it have the same fuel efficiency as a normal Honda engine. I jsut have all these questions as im looking into getting a Accord VTI-R.

turbo and superchargers are forced induction
they ram air into the intake so when it burns with fuel it expands alot more
VVT and VTEC variate how far into the stroke intakes and exhausts happen. Where as with a normal car once the cam reaches a certain point it opens certain valves always at that point.

Too hard... www.howstuffworks.com has moving diagrams i think.

turbo and superchargers are forced induction
they ram air into the intake so when it burns with fuel it expands alot more
VVT and VTEC variate how far into the stroke intakes and exhausts happen. Where as with a normal car once the cam reaches a certain point it opens certain valves always at that point.

Too hard... www.howstuffworks.com has moving diagrams i think.


ahh thats is what i wanted. thanks alot Satan.
Anybody here ever had a VTEC engine, or VVT-I....pros', con's?

Vtech, TVIS, MIVEC, VVT, VVTI etc etc are all the same **** just different company ..

its really not much of a power gain, sounds tuff though, you feel the ar pic up a little bit but nothing linke a turbo ever will.

to put it into perspective on a dyno graph its not amazingly obvious exactly where it will kick in and power comes in

Vtech, TVIS, MIVEC, VVT, VVTI etc etc are all the same **** just different company ..

its really not much of a power gain, sounds tuff though, you feel the ar pic up a little bit but nothing linke a turbo ever will.

to put it into perspective on a dyno graph its not amazingly obvious exactly where it will kick in and power comes in


ahh ok, so its not like a mass power boost at a certain point. just a slight gain. righteo, thanks.

People people people....isnt it V-Tak? lol

Helps get the most out of the engine at most of the rev range rather than only being strong at a certain point. U should read about the F1 and ferrari types. They are wicked. I reckon VVT mixed with CVT (constant versatile transmission) tuned in with a supercharger, you would have one huge beast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcT_ZyY3F0k

BANG! There you go.

or just...

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question229.htm

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft.htm/printable

EDIT: WTF Happened to the previous poster?

Helps get the most out of the engine at most of the rev range rather than only being strong at a certain point. U should read about the F1 and ferrari types. They are wicked. I reckon VVT mixed with CVT (constant versatile transmission) tuned in with a supercharger, you would have one huge beast.

Think you mean constant VARIABLE transmission???

The only real downsides are that, usually it can make a small engine go quite well, though this means that when the variable cams arent in hypo mode, the engine can be quite weak, and there can be a bit of a flat spot and then a sudden surge in power when it kicks in. People think VTEC is unique to Honda, but most new cars actually have variable timing of some sort, some better than others, some tuned to takre more advantage.

Although variable timing is nearly standard these days, I was shocked when the new 380 engine didnt have it, variable lift is still fairly rare. One difference between good ones and bad ones are that the bad ones only have two steps, where the good ones are continuously variable.

I thought it was quite interesting, that the new 3 litre BMW engine, which is quite high tech with a magnesium block and the like, actually has no throttle body, the engine is entirely controlled by infintely adjusting the valve timing, duration and lift.

Ollie

Think you mean constant VARIABLE transmission???

thats it... same poo diff smell.
constant variable transmission
continuously variable tranny
constant versatile transmission...

main thing is we thinkin along same wave lengths

from what i undertsand it goes like this


driving along, using the really slow mode, using not much petrol etc

then when you get to a certain amoutn of revs, say 5000 it uses another 'tune' which makes more power and viola vtec yo!


thats a basic version from what i undertsand

i got V-Tec YO!

just got to watch when it kicks in man..... wow turbos are nothing in comparison ;)

Is it possible to stick a v-tec engine in a verada?

Is it possible to stick a v-tec engine in a verada?
yeah man there are veradas (diamantes) with Vtec already man!

just buy one trademe.co.nz is you best bet
heres one!!!

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Mitsubishi/auction-122801381.htm

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/20/51070620_full.jpg

yeah man there are veradas (diamantes) with Vtec already man!

just buy one trademe.co.nz is you best bet

But i like my car! Maybe for the next car. Because it would be to hard to install the engine in my current one.

lol... MIVEC is vtec


anda supercharger would be a much better mod

VVT optimizes power and torque across a wide RPM band. It raises peak power and increases low-speed torque.
In simple lenguage, it increases power, reduces fuel consumption and lower emissions.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_1606/article.html
http://www.automedia.com/Variable_Valve_Timing/dsm20040901vt/1
http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/engine/vvt_1.htm

so it is possible to supper/turbo a vtec engine and from what i understood vtec just flattened the torque curve so that its almost even across the rev range

so it is possible to supper/turbo a vtec engine and from what i understood vtec just flattened the torque curve so that its almost even across the rev range

Yes it's possible, and very popular.

so it is possible to supper/turbo a vtec engine and from what i understood vtec just flattened the torque curve so that its almost even across the rev range
nissan did it with the silvia/200sx from the series 2 s14 onwards. and from the r33 skyline onwards. the r33 only had it on the intake side (or was it the exhaust side....) and it was just a on/off affair. it is on below 1500rpm, then off between 1500 and 4500rpm. it is just controlled by a solenoid. on the hondas it is controlled by oil pressure, and again is an on/off type as well. you can hear when it kicks in. it is like hitting band on a 2 stroke moto.

i am pretty sure ferrari originally came up with the concept. they developed a cam with lobes that had lobes that varied in shape (all the lobes were the same shape, but the lobe itself wasn't flat) and as the revs rose the cam would slid, thus having different profiles used at different rpm.

It's only a matter of time before camshafts are replaced by independently controlled valves for infinite variable timing and lift control, most promising is electromagnetic actuation.

yamaha has already made a nuematic valve engine for the moto gp bikes. hasn't had much race time though.

thats old F1 tech...

isnt it banned now?

thats old F1 tech...

isnt it banned now?

According to Wiki, some MIVEC implementations were also continuously variable and Mitsu
also had a MIVEC-MD version with modulated displacement (where the intake and exhaust
valves in two cylinders remain closed, similar to GMs DoD) but was dropped in 1996. What
a pity.

Vtech, TVIS, MIVEC, VVT, VVTI etc etc are all the same **** just different company ..
No it's not.


lol... MIVEC is vtec
Not necessarily.

Redav!!!! You're still alive!!!:shock: Havn't seen you post for a while mate. :P

Redav!!!! You're still alive!!!:shock: Havn't seen you post for a while mate. :P
Yeah, had other priorities. Pretending to be responsible and am waiting for my townhouse to be built so due to a lack of funds, hadn't done anything to the car. And due to a lack of time, haven't been on here much. Quick scan every month or so.

Had a truck roll into my car so using it as an excuse to do a few exterior things but seems my overzelousness (is that a word? hahaha) out did my research which I thought was enough (trying the TF to KH taillight swap).

How you doin?

Truck rolled onto your car?! How did that happen? lol

I'm doing alright mate.

Truck rolled onto your car?! How did that happen? lol
Yeah, I gave it 3m or so and it slipped twice at lights on a hill. Not major damage but enough to use as an excuse to start a few things :D


I'm doing alright mate.
Good to hear

this car is a supercharged, TYPE R VTEC, its nuts, better power to weight ration than an ENZO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA

I'd like to get a v-tec engine but would twin turbo be a good substitute? Or a supercharger?

I'd like to get a v-tec engine but would twin turbo be a good substitute? Or a supercharger?
Courses for horses. All have their pros and cons. Depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.

u can get V-tec,
MIVEC, heads, would fit your 3.0L, just like the varada, few posts back

u can get V-tec,
MIVEC, heads, would fit your 3.0L, just like the varada, few posts back

3.5. Well, cost wise i know turbo is cheaper from what i read. But, i'd like to know which would give a good power boost and wouldn't effect the gas system.


Courses for horses. All have their pros and cons. Depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.

Well, my cousin recommends the twin turbo because his skyline has it. But i want something to bring me from 110kw to 250-240kw

3.5. Well, cost wise i know turbo is cheaper from what i read. But, i'd like to know which would give a good power boost and wouldn't effect the gas system.

I don't know about cheaper... you're looking at about $12k for a well designed TT setup.


Well, my cousin recommends the twin turbo because his skyline has it. But i want something to bring me from 110kw to 250-240kw

~250kw ATW ?? :nuts: I think you'll find there's only one Magna around that has that sort of power, and that's after 4 years of development.

TZABOY's SC Ralliart made about 200kw atw and then promptly popped.

if you've got the money to rebuild with forged pistons, upgraded cams, and the like, good luck to you.

cheers,
.wook

this car is a supercharged, TYPE R VTEC, its nuts, better power to weight ration than an ENZO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA
there is a heap of turbo vtec hondas. mostly found in s2000s or crx's.


I'd like to get a v-tec engine but would twin turbo be a good substitute? Or a supercharger?
going forced induction is going to give you much more power than going to a mivec (mitsubishi's mivec, unless you actually mean puting a honda vtec motor in your car)


Well, my cousin recommends the twin turbo because his skyline has it. But i want something to bring me from 110kw to 250-240kw
you would have to go turbo or a HUGE supercharger to get 250kw, there is no chance of getting it from a NA unless you were planning on rebuilding the motor at every oil change. i think it would just be easier to implant a turbo 3.0L out of a gto or eclipse then see how you like that at stock power. i think you'd find 170kw more than adequate... for a while anyway.

i tuned a 250kw r33 and that sort of power in a fwd would be deadly in the wet (i had about 210kw in my 33 and even that in a fwd would be a handfull). if you sneezed while going round a corner you'd end up off the side of the road.

i tuned a 250kw r33 and that sort of power in a fwd would be deadly in the wet (i had about 210kw in my 33 and even that in a fwd would be a handfull). if you sneezed while going round a corner you'd end up off the side of the road.

thoroughly disagree.

FWD you have weight over the wheels as well and if your wheels are spinning it doesnt change where you're facing. sure its inefficient for exiting corners and launching but its not as dangerous.

also the introduction of MIVEC would reap similar rewards to a mild camshaft change. Making peak hp better. Turbo/s/c set would make better peak hp and alot better low down.

Also its just a better idea to TT on these v6's

vtec is king, mivec is probably the closest to it but still doesn't cut it. in a honda you can really feel when the rockers activate the differnt profile cam lobes, the new i-vtec is more of a gradual change but.

vtec turbo ftw!, although its a bit of a bitch to tune, because of the change over, can turn out bad if not tuned properly, the real bonus in vtec is that it can run a efficient and smooth lobe profile for casual driving and once it hits 4500rpm (varies between engines) instead of dying of like most cars it can still keep goin till 7-8000rpm with lots of oomph.

goin mivec turbo shouldn't be to much of a hassle.

i've got about 150-160fwkw in a 1300kg car, running a t25 on 8psi and a microtech lt-8s, you need internals if you plan on goin higher boost, or else boom.

vtec is king, mivec is probably the closest to it but still doesn't cut it. in a honda you can really feel when the rockers activate the differnt profile cam lobes

Driving my mates old accord with Jap spec H22A conversion, foot flat any gear at 5000rpm it kicks in. My god that thing flew.

All i know is when these cam lobes activate, oh the noise. It's like somone whips it in the asre. Goes from mild to wild in like half a seccond!

Sorry if this has been answered, but VVT-i, is that similar to V-TEC? I'm a little confused by all this jargon, I'm not an engine person haha.

They are similar in the fact that they vary the valve lifts/durations to produce economy and power.

Sorry if this has been answered, but VVT-i, is that similar to V-TEC? I'm a little confused by all this jargon, I'm not an engine person haha.

VVT-i is Toyota (i'm pretty sure :confused: ) and V-Tec is Honda. Basically same principle, but the technology used probably varies slightly.

vtec is king, mivec is probably the closest to it but still doesn't cut it.

You do realise these systems work almost identically. Both use oil pressure for the cam switching, only varying in actuation methods. So saying one is better then the other doesn't make sense, as the cam profiles and initial design intentions (what performance targets they set out to achieve) will dictate how the car would perform.

The reason the older V-TEC cars had a pronounced switch over point, was simply due to big step up in cam profile from the base the cam to the performance cam.

VVT-i is Toyota
Yeah thats why I asked, our 04 Camry is VVT-i. The manual says something about constant tuning of the engine during travel from memory, so what they're talking about is the valve lift stuff trotty mentioned? Sounds complicated haha.

FWD you have weight over the wheels as well and if your wheels are spinning it doesnt change where you're facing. sure its inefficient for exiting corners and launching but its not as dangerous.
only flaw in that statement is that when you accelerate weight comes off the front wheels and transfers to the rear wheels.

and if you have every driven a fwd and had both front wheels spinning while going round a corner you will find that you go straight ahead, reguardless of where you have the wheels pointing. and until you have full traction again there isn't much you can do. if you do the same thing in a rear wheel drive car you can use the throttle and the steering to hang it out the whole way round the corner. also if the compression makes you lock the drive wheels going into a corner you can still use the steering to guide you. in a fwd car you just go straight ahead.

and in a fwd car if you do happen to have the back swing out it is harder to control. it will either just keep going, or if you manage to pull it back in it will often just tank slap and loop you the other way. in a rwd you can power oversteer and catch it easier.

i have done some motorkhana driving in both front and rear drive cars. rear drive cars are much easier to handle, and go faster. the rear drive cars you can get on the gas earlier, go into the corner faster, get off the line faster, with less wheelspin.

take a fwd with a nice tight lsd for a spin then a rwd with an lsd for a spin and see which you think is harder to control at speed. especially if the fwd has enough power to torque steer. you don't get that in a rwd car.

only flaw in that statement is that when you accelerate weight comes off the front wheels and transfers to the rear wheels.

and if you have every driven a fwd and had both front wheels spinning while going round a corner you will find that you go straight ahead, reguardless of where you have the wheels pointing. and until you have full traction again there isn't much you can do. if you do the same thing in a rear wheel drive car you can use the throttle and the steering to hang it out the whole way round the corner. also if the compression makes you lock the drive wheels going into a corner you can still use the steering to guide you. in a fwd car you just go straight ahead.

and in a fwd car if you do happen to have the back swing out it is harder to control. it will either just keep going, or if you manage to pull it back in it will often just tank slap and loop you the other way. in a rwd you can power oversteer and catch it easier.

i have done some motorkhana driving in both front and rear drive cars. rear drive cars are much easier to handle, and go faster. the rear drive cars you can get on the gas earlier, go into the corner faster, get off the line faster, with less wheelspin.

take a fwd with a nice tight lsd for a spin then a rwd with an lsd for a spin and see which you think is harder to control at speed. especially if the fwd has enough power to torque steer. you don't get that in a rwd car.
i have to agree with u ten fold as a kid when learning to drive in the wet the road would become slosh and you would slide all over the road but as long as u have the wheels pointed in the right direction thats the way u go but as i found out that start of the year if u lose traction in a fwd ur stuffed

wow, anyone would think that you can't drive a fwd car as fast as a rwd car. :nuts:

http://www.btcc.net/

Top Ten Drivers
# 01/ F. Giovanardi/ 300 (fwd Vectra)
# 02/ Jason Plato/ 297 (fwd Seat Leon)
# 03/ Gordon Shedden/ 200 (fwd Civic)
# 04/ Matt Neal/ 195 (fwd Civic)
# 05/ Colin Turkington/ 184 (rwd BMW 320i)
# 06/ Darren Turner/ 160 (fwd Seat Leon)
# 07/ Mat Jackson/ 158 (rwd BMW 320i)
# 08/ Mike Jordan/ 131 (fwd Integra)
# 09/ Tom Chilton/ 130 (fwd Vectra)
# 10/ Tom Onslow-Cole/ 109 (rwd BMW 320i)

that's 70% of the top ten in the BTCC driving fwd cars, and the top four are all fwd.

they're different, not better, not worse, just different.

cheers,
.wook

But apparently FWD cars cant be used for much as mad082 magna says.....
Cant Launch, Cant Turn, Cant brake, Not as responsive, and cant do much....
Dont think this guy is having too much trouble in a 1st gen...
(I know its a youtube vid but just showing....)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vP0z4DlaY8

But apparently FWD cars cant be used for much as mad082 magna says.....
Cant Launch, Cant Turn, Cant brake, Not as responsive, and cant do much....
Dont think this guy is having too much trouble in a 1st gen...
(I know its a youtube vid but just showing....)
and just look at how wide he ran at every turn. the handbrake gets the back out then he just understeers for a few car lengths.

and to compare a btcc car to a road car is stupid. they are setup for maximum grip, they are running slicks, the list goes on.

and just look at how wide he ran at every turn. the handbrake gets the back out then he just understeers for a few car lengths.

and to compare a btcc car to a road car is stupid. they are setup for maximum grip, they are running slicks, the list goes on.

and they are racing against similarly setup rwd cars and beating them. just because you don't know how to handle a fwd drive car, don't think that they can't be handled well (and quickly) in just about any sort of situation.

a well handled fwd drive turning into a corner is a thing of beauty.

the only situation that fwd cars fall down and can't be totally compensated for is at the drag strip. however, there are still 10 second fwd cars out there.

oh and while we are posting youtube clips. here is some from a local skidpan day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=327VTZhDojo

it wuold take a lot more work to get a fwd through the S closest to the camera at the same sort of speed as the rwd cars.

only flaw in that statement is that when you accelerate weight comes off the front wheels and transfers to the rear wheels.

and if you have every driven a fwd and had both front wheels spinning while going round a corner you will find that you go straight ahead, reguardless of where you have the wheels pointing. and until you have full traction again there isn't much you can do. if you do the same thing in a rear wheel drive car you can use the throttle and the steering to hang it out the whole way round the corner. also if the compression makes you lock the drive wheels going into a corner you can still use the steering to guide you. in a fwd car you just go straight ahead.

and in a fwd car if you do happen to have the back swing out it is harder to control. it will either just keep going, or if you manage to pull it back in it will often just tank slap and loop you the other way. in a rwd you can power oversteer and catch it easier.

i have done some motorkhana driving in both front and rear drive cars. rear drive cars are much easier to handle, and go faster. the rear drive cars you can get on the gas earlier, go into the corner faster, get off the line faster, with less wheelspin.

take a fwd with a nice tight lsd for a spin then a rwd with an lsd for a spin and see which you think is harder to control at speed. especially if the fwd has enough power to torque steer. you don't get that in a rwd car.

weight transfer from the front wheels is only relevant at slower speeds even with 200kwatw.

fwd sideways. They snap back in line where rwd you have to know whats happening to realign the car.

RWD are faster off the line but not much diffs in corner speed, just a different approach. Better top end for similar power.

Its just obvious due the the position from the centre of gravity to the driving wheels and subsequent moments created. Get rwd and corner slowly in the wet till you lose traction and do the same in a fwd.

IE my sister from ks rada to vx commo, lost control several times where the fwd would be fine. Not arguing you're just wrong.

End of the day the rwd is a better performance platform but we're not talking about that.

weight transfer from the front wheels is only relevant at slower speeds even with 200kwatw.
with 200kw in a fwd car unless you idle round town you are going to have wheelspin issues if you boot it in a low gear. a rwd is going to squat and put more weight on the drive wheels.


fwd sideways. They snap back in line where rwd you have to know whats happening to realign the car.
sometimes they snap back and keep going out the other way. other times they don't snap back. in a rwd car if the back goes out often if you lift off the gas it will snap back too. i used to do a lot of motorkhanas in my skyline. the closest fwd car to my times was a guy in a pulsar with street slick tyres on, and was a realy good driver too (beat second place fwd by about 30 seconds) but was still about 20 seconds behind my time.


RWD are faster off the line but not much diffs in corner speed, just a different approach. Better top end for similar power.
mid corner speed will be similar, depending on the corner. in tighter corners the rwd car can used power oversteer to turn the car quicker, and it can also start to get on the gas a touch quicker. in a highspeed corner there is going to be extremely little difference.


IE my sister from ks rada to vx commo, lost control several times where the fwd would be fine
for that you also have to take into account things like tyre age (if they are hard they will be more slipery in the wet, tread depth, tyre compund, size, air pressure, etc. there are too many variables to say you lost it in the wet cause it was rwd. unless it was cause you gave it a boot and didn't correct the steering quick enough.

with 200kw in a fwd car unless you idle round town you are going to have wheelspin issues if you boot it in a low gear. a rwd is going to squat and put more weight on the drive wheels.


sometimes they snap back and keep going out the other way. other times they don't snap back. in a rwd car if the back goes out often if you lift off the gas it will snap back too. i used to do a lot of motorkhanas in my skyline. the closest fwd car to my times was a guy in a pulsar with street slick tyres on, and was a realy good driver too (beat second place fwd by about 30 seconds) but was still about 20 seconds behind my time.


mid corner speed will be similar, depending on the corner. in tighter corners the rwd car can used power oversteer to turn the car quicker, and it can also start to get on the gas a touch quicker. in a highspeed corner there is going to be extremely little difference.


for that you also have to take into account things like tyre age (if they are hard they will be more slipery in the wet, tread depth, tyre compund, size, air pressure, etc. there are too many variables to say you lost it in the wet cause it was rwd. unless it was cause you gave it a boot and didn't correct the steering quick enough.

Why is that 99.9% of all posts about any type of power/performace question always have to turn into some stupid pointless debate about FWD v's RWD ? :gtfo:

Why is that 99.9% of all posts about any type of power/performace question always have to turn into some stupid pointless debate about FWD v's RWD ? :gtfo:

Agreed, and the O/P's question has been answered to a far extent. /thread

with 200kw in a fwd car unless you idle round town you are going to have wheelspin issues if you boot it in a low gear. a rwd is going to squat and put more weight on the drive wheels.
Duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h :nuts:

with 200kw in a fwd car unless you idle round town you are going to have wheelspin issues if you boot it in a low gear. a rwd is going to squat and put more weight on the drive wheels.
.

**** me thats exactly what i said. You wont be going anywhere meaning you wont hit anything at speed. Rwd will get traction and plough through that pole.

See youre just trying to get back onto the rwd v fwd racing debate... dw your skyline is rad and we'll have mad e-respect for you.

disagree with your other points but id rather argue with the wall.

**** me thats exactly what i said. You wont be going anywhere meaning you wont hit anything at speed. Rwd will get traction and plough through that pole.

See youre just trying to get back onto the rwd v fwd racing debate... dw your skyline is rad and we'll have mad e-respect for you.

disagree with your other points but id rather argue with the wall.

Pretty sure It'd be Fully Sick Bro.
but i agree with you AJ.
zomg teh fwd is no where as good as my hektik skyline