Hey guys i have been looking around for an amp for my new 2 type r's and i am soo lost and confused as to which one to buy.

Now i know i want a monoblock and i know that my subs are 500 watt RMS capable. my question is how can i run them efficiently and for the cheapest possible price. The are the twin coil model (1242D). My initial thoughts were like diagram 1. This would give me 2 ohm load for both subs correct??
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=33321&stc=1&d=1192536195

What amps around 300 - 500 would be suitable for 500 watt rms at 2 ohm??

Is this a good example of a suitable amp??
* Tim edit ebay thread for this *

Thanks in advance guys

Shibbs

* Tim edit ebay thread for this *


afaik thats 1ohm but thats if they are dual 4ohm

ahh buggered if i know

look up the wiring calculator on the rockford site... or is it the Mtx site.... i'll get a link later

Jaycar man, cheap 1ohm stable and more powerful...

plus i wouldnt use anything kenwood even if you paid me (just have a pet hate for sony and kenwood)

Here's the link to the wiring wizzard... click me! (http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/woofer_wizard.asp)

no, if you wire the subs up like that you'll end up with a 4ohm load at the amp
so you'll need a monoblock that has a minimum 1000watts rms at 4ohm or 1ohm

but if you had the 2ohm version of that sub you could have purchased the deal that alpine have on those subs
you get two 12's and a amp that has the correct rms for the subs

that amp you have suggested will be fine for one sub, but you'll need another one for the other sub

Thanks Andrewd!!

the way i have the diagram set up is actually 1 ohm load. And that jaycar amp would be ideal at 1000watt rms at 1 ohm load. but my subs only need 500watt, is the 1000 watt shared to give 500 watt to each sub? or does each sub receive the 1000 watts?

Is there a way i can modifiy my wiring to make it 2 ohm?? seems either i only can get 1 ohm or 4 ohm.

I guess i could always use 2 amps couldnt i ?? but that would cost more...so theres another option if someone has any clue.

Thanks

Shibbs

1000w @14.4v

that amp was bench tested to 820wrms only (i read long story about it) but apparently can produce over 1kwrms

you will be fine my subs are 250wrms MAX and they have been running flat out off the amp for ages now and havent cooked anything yet!

4ohm is better as someone who has a clue (not me :confused: ) will explain and will still go decently loud at 4ohm 1ohm should go louder but at a small loss of sq etc...


all things being equal and done correctly the load will be evenly shared between the subs

that amp comes with a remote controller nob thing (never used it as my h/u has sub controll) so you can turn the bass down as you wish

yes sorry i've looked at your pic again and yes that is a 1ohm load
thats amps will suit you fine but seen as the runs at 1000watts rms at 1ohm is really going to put alot of stress on the amp to meet your demands, thats why its better to get a amp with a higher rms rating then the subs so you can turn the gains down and to stop the amp working hard
your subs are 500watts rms, but seen as you have 2 you need atleast 1000watts rms if you wire them up together
you could try 2 amps but the settings on both amps have to be the same, also the amps have to be the same
i have 2 4ohm subs and have 2 seperate monoblocks running them

or if u wanna do it cheap, just set it to roughly 75% gains, and get 750W RMS instead of 1000W :)

Yeah that would present a 2ohm 1000Wrms load to your amp.

The new Jaycar 1000W mono block will cope with that fine. It is stable for 1 and 2 ohm loads only. I went and checked this amp out the other day, it is a very neat package. Nothing really fancy as far as looks go, but very compact and quite heavy.
Believe me, you wont be pumping 1000W through your boot unless you have some serious deadening. If you are worried about SQ you wont be pushing out 1000W, you would have it lower and more 'in-tune' with your music, otherwise it will be all thundering bass which isn't SQ ;) .
If wattage is your focus, you can get 2 and link them for 1800Wrms :P haha

See link below for the new amp:
Jaycar 1000W mono block (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AA0460&CATID=&keywords=1000w&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=)

Cheers
Pete

Also if you could confirm the impedance of each voice coil... I would assume they are 4ohms.

It would be best to confirm this before ordering the amp, as for instance the Jaycar one is only 1 and 2 ohm stable... I am trying to chase someone up who can tell me whether it can cope with 4 ohms...

Which would mean you can wire each VC in parallel on each sub and then the subs in parallel. This would give 1ohm load. Would be damn loud but a loss of quality bass.

OR

Wire each VC in parallel on each sub but wire the subs together in series. This would give a 4ohm load. Which would mean you can't use the Jaycar amp. The bass would probably be a little 'tighter' though and less strain on the amp.

jaycar is 1 2 and 4 ohm stable!

4ohm 400w
2ohm 700w
1ohm 1000w

thats for the old model

only diff is the new one is black and linkable

jaycar is 1 2 and 4 ohm stable!

4ohm 400w
2ohm 700w
1ohm 1000w

thats for the old model

only diff is the new one is black and linkable

There is quite a bit of difference :P The new one is also heaps smaller.

That old one (AA0428) was a 800Wrms amplifier on Jaycars website and in the catalogue sitting in front of me, the next one up was the 1500Wrms amplifier (AA-0429). Both of these have been discontinued. I am not sure where that eBay link got them from but I would be cautious of a dodge... the AA0428 was not a 1000W amplifier. The best it could do was 820Wrms at 1ohm.
Specs from the catalogue and web:
400W 4ohm
700W 2ohm
820W 1ohm

This new one is the 1st 1000Wrms amp they have produced...

There is quite a bit of difference :P The new one is also heaps smaller.

That old one (AA0428) was a 800Wrms amplifier on Jaycars website and in the catalogue sitting in front of me, the next one up was the 1500Wrms amplifier (AA-0429). Both of these have been discontinued. I am not sure where that eBay link got them from but I would be cautious of a dodge... the AA0428 was not a 1000W amplifier. The best it could do was 820Wrms at 1ohm.
Specs from the catalogue and web:
400W 4ohm
700W 2ohm
820W 1ohm

This new one is the 1st 1000Wrms amp they have produced...

you will find that they will both produce the same 1kw

the OLD one, was 1000w as on the amp

but rated to 820wrms as thats what it made ona bench test at 11v not 14.4v as the testers power supply couldnt produce any more, there is a lengthy thread on the net from they guy who tested them to get the ratings for jaycar, and he has said it''s capable of delivering more than 1000wrms if yo can supply 14.4v to it


but big deal anyway, im getting 8kw lol

hmmm time to upgrade everything lol

you will find that they will both produce the same 1kw

the OLD one, was 1000w as on the amp

but rated to 820wrms as thats what it made ona bench test at 11v not 14.4v as the testers power supply couldnt produce any more, there is a lengthy thread on the net from they guy who tested them to get the ratings for jaycar, and he has said it''s capable of delivering more than 1000wrms if yo can supply 14.4v to it


but big deal anyway, im getting 8kw lol

hmmm time to upgrade everything lol


aaaah ok no worries then! :D

you will find that they will both produce the same 1kw

the OLD one, was 1000w as on the amp

but rated to 820wrms as thats what it made ona bench test at 11v not 14.4v as the testers power supply couldnt produce any more, there is a lengthy thread on the net from they guy who tested them to get the ratings for jaycar, and he has said it''s capable of delivering more than 1000wrms if yo can supply 14.4v to it


but big deal anyway, im getting 8kw lol

hmmm time to upgrade everything lol

Yeah if you believe Jason. They had problems regulating the voltage which meant they decided to rate the amp at a power that could be easily achieved. Apparently they do make just over 1kw but have never seen a decent bench test to confirm?

The 1242d is the 4ohm DVC model so just wire everything parallel and you will have 1ohm.

Do you have a budget? I believe the Jaycar amp will have no damping factor @ 1ohm which will mean your amp will have no control over your subs. I remember seeing that the older DD SS-1 ( which is tiny ) make 700WRMS @ 1ohm and with over 150damping @ 1ohm. They where only around the $500 mark. Jaycar are great for cheap thrills but if you can spend a little more....

or if u wanna do it cheap, just set it to roughly 75% gains, and get 750W RMS instead of 1000W :)

WOW that is some dangerous advice to be giving! given the way most people level set to their decks, 75% on the gain knob would be clip city well before they reach their full listening volume.

save yourself some cooked subs, pay someone to level set the amp with an oscolliscope

WOW that is some dangerous advice to be giving! given the way most people level set to their decks, 75% on the gain knob would be clip city well before they reach their full listening volume.

save yourself some cooked subs, pay someone to level set the amp with an oscolliscope

Glad you mentioned that. My deck has 6.5V outputs and my amps can only receive 5V. Now if I turn my deck up full pelt the gains on my amp would not have to go past about 70% for the amp to achieve its maximum output. Gains are not a volume dial.

forgive my ignorance but what is damping and what effect will that have on my subs??

To be honest SQ is not what i am chasing here, just solid doof doof. I was hoping that something the equivalent of an alpine mrd m1005 would have been ideal, but its jsut too expensive.

Also if i ran the subs at 2 ohm and linked them in parallel that would give a 0.5ohm load?? which is completely useless right??

Thanks for all the help guys.

forgive my ignorance but what is damping and what effect will that have on my subs??

To be honest SQ is not what i am chasing here, just solid doof doof. I was hoping that something the equivalent of an alpine mrd m1005 would have been ideal, but its jsut too expensive.

Also if i ran the subs at 2 ohm and linked them in parallel that would give a 0.5ohm load?? which is completely useless right??

Thanks for all the help guys.

There are only a few things I can say ShiVrx.

1) Alpine loves Alpine. I just got 2 x 12" S + MP650 Alpine amp to go with them. Pretty awesome. Goes very well.

2) Solid Doof Doof can be experienced with $300 and some cheap crud. Get a Kenwood/Pioneer/Sony 12" with the aforementioned Jaycar amp and go for it. It won't sound great, but you'll get your Doof Doof.

3) 2Ohm in parallel with 2Ohm is perfect. Its 1Ohm not 0.5Ohm. The actual equation is (R1 * R2) / (R1 + R2).

WOW that is some dangerous advice to be giving! given the way most people level set to their decks, 75% on the gain knob would be clip city well before they reach their full listening volume.

save yourself some cooked subs, pay someone to level set the amp with an oscolliscope

hehe k, still havent gotten my amps and everything, so was just guestimating ;)

forgive my ignorance but what is damping and what effect will that have on my subs??

To be honest SQ is not what i am chasing here, just solid doof doof. I was hoping that something the equivalent of an alpine mrd m1005 would have been ideal, but its jsut too expensive.

Also if i ran the subs at 2 ohm and linked them in parallel that would give a 0.5ohm load?? which is completely useless right??

Thanks for all the help guys.

Yeah 2ohm in parallel will give 1ohm.

Damping factor is your amps ability to control your speakers cone. If it is to low, your subs will sound like mud no matter what box you put them in.

What happens is when you half the load, you halve the damping. I.e
400 @ 4ohm
200 @ 2ohm
100 @ 1ohm

The bigger the driver the more you should try and get. Its up to you, I would look around for and amp outside of Alpine and Jaycar if you can afford it. Companies like Audison, Soundstream, Focal, Boston, Zapco, DD, Audio System all make amps that are not that expensive and offer a lot more. See how you go :D

Glad you mentioned that. My deck has 6.5V outputs and my amps can only receive 5V. Now if I turn my deck up full pelt the gains on my amp would not have to go past about 70% for the amp to achieve its maximum output. Gains are not a volume dial.

theoretically, given a proper 6.5V preout, with your amps gains set as low as they will go, your amp will start clipping before it hits full volume.

I dont think i have ever level set a single system that needed the gains to be above 50% to achieve maximum power BEFORE the deck was at max volume.

right now my sub amp gains are sitting at around 20% or so, and my speakers at around 35/10% for mids/tweeters.

i would say around 90% of people that level set their own systems are driving them to clipping, with some of those people understanding the dangers of clipping, and believe that their system is fine.

theoretically, given a proper 6.5V preout, with your amps gains set as low as they will go, your amp will start clipping before it hits full volume.

I dont think i have ever level set a single system that needed the gains to be above 50% to achieve maximum power BEFORE the deck was at max volume.

right now my sub amp gains are sitting at around 20% or so, and my speakers at around 35/10% for mids/tweeters.

i would say around 90% of people that level set their own systems are driving them to clipping, with some of those people understanding the dangers of clipping, and believe that their system is fine.

Yeah not this set up because the amps only accept a maximum of 5V. My front amp is set half way and the sub amp is set to about 65-70%. Volume on the deck goes to 37/40 safely with no distortion unless the CD has +db...

Most people suffer because they don't run there speakers with enough power and try to make the amp produce more power than it safely can ( for the speaker ).

6.5V output, fill tilt on the deck, and 70% gains. im sorry but if theres no clipping ill give you my entire sound system.

subwoofer distortion can be completely inaudible to the human ear, and even an extent of full range distortion is inaudible to most ears.

An amp that has '0.1-5V' input does not mean that it limits the input to 5V. Most amps have input protections where the amp will shut itself off when attempted to be overdriven, and any signal over 5V will be telling the amp to clip.

Lets say an amp did have throttling on the input, this would mean that every little bit of increase above 5V would read as 5V, meaning that every increase in volume at the input side would be the same level of output. This would make music sound bad. very bad.

anyway, most decks that claim voltages are actually nowhere near said voltage in the real world. take alpine decks for example, commonly rated at 4V, in actual fact putting out around 2V peaks with dynamic music.

You must remember that the GAIN knob, is there to conpensate for lack of voltage.
if your amp is rated between 0.1V and 5V, then when given a 0.1V signal, you put the gain as far as it will go, and it will result in the full power output of the amp.
if you give it 5V, then the gain should be on the absolute lowest setting in order to achieve full, unclipped power.

Hey

So woob the current 500 (250 rms i think) watt amp that i am using to power my subs is protecting itself from "clipping" ?? because if i turn the volume up too high, the amp just shuts down, is this due to too much voltage going to the amp?? i have a pioneer deh6950, i fogot the RCA voltage values, but i am guessing thats why my amp keeps shutting off if the volume is cranked too high.

The subs seem to want to drive far harder than the amp will let it go, hence why i want this monoblock thing sorted, just so that if i want to i can crank em loud, but most of the time they will be at 20% capacity if that.

Cheers Shibbs

yeah mate its likely that you have the gains too high and are driving the subs to clipping. i would be careful, when clipping an amp gives out a lot more power, but its unclean. unclean power can destroy a sub a lot faster than clean, unclipped overpowering can.

I think you are also confusing clipping with distortion. Even at an audiable 5% THD the speakers will have no problem reproducing the signal, it will just be obviously distortion. Clipping is only dangerous when you push the amp to deliver a square wave instead of a clean sine wave.

ShiVrx it could also be from heat, poor grounds etc. Make sure your wires are secure and your amps are well vented.

Woob if I turned my gains all the way down there will be no real volume. As I said, if the amp only accepts 5V and the gain is set at about 65% it will not have a problem. Remember we are talking about music here and not playing sweeps etc. Alpine decks etc will put out 4V as they say but with music it will more likely be 2WRMS, hence why you turn up the gains.

Now it can't be that bad if people hop in the car and say wow thats clear and people actually think it should go louder. I'm sure if you tested it with a fine tooth comb you will find some distortion, I can't hear it and no damage is none to the speakers with responsable use so ill leave them the way they where set at FHRX studio's, I'm thinking they know what they are doing....

Hey i just had an epiphany.

What about using a 2 channel and running each sub at 2 ohm? whats the difference between a monoblock and a two channel amp?

My current line of thinking is either soundstream or phoenix gold.

Soundstream:
This looks like a good amp to bridge to 1 ohm.

Phoenix Gold:

This is 775 watts RMS at 4 ohms, which is possible, however does anyone know whether these amps would be stable at 1 ohm if i chose to run it that way??

A long shot option is to run each sub off a single kenwood monoblock

It delivers 500watt rms at 2ohm, which i can achieve if i read the alpine sheet right.

Any feedback would be good guys.

Thanks in advance

Shibbs

*edit Tim - Removed Ebay links - keep ebay links in the ebay thread and out of the forum*

bump guys any suggestions??

Cheers Shibbs

bump guys any suggestions??

Cheers Shibbs

yeah the Jaycar mono

i can demo the old model for you and show you how it has more than enough power at 1 2 and 4 ohms

sorry to dig up an old thread but i bought a new monoblock (well 2nd hand)

Its the Cadence Z7000 monoblock

740watt rms @ 2 ohm
1500watt rms @ 1 ohm

200 to 100hz dampening factor or something i read :S.

I will be running a 1 ohm load, but with the subs only needing 1000 watts, i will technically be running the cadence at 66% capacity, which i think is reasonable, not a couple of questions. Who sells those jumper cables (on the actual sub) that i need to make this work? and does anyone recommend a capacitor, or shoudl i save my money and put it towards an optima yelowtop? My current battery is severely crap.

Thanks guys Shibbs

sorry to dig up an old thread but i bought a new monoblock (well 2nd hand)

Its the Cadence Z7000 monoblock

740watt rms @ 2 ohm
1500watt rms @ 1 ohm

200 to 100hz dampening factor or something i read :S.

I will be running a 1 ohm load, but with the subs only needing 1000 watts, i will technically be running the cadence at 66% capacity, which i think is reasonable, not a couple of questions. Who sells those jumper cables (on the actual sub) that i need to make this work? and does anyone recommend a capacitor, or shoudl i save my money and put it towards an optima yelowtop? My current battery is severely crap.

Thanks guys Shibbs

no one reccommends a cap!

upgrade the wiring 1st 0 gauge should do the trick for you, damn expensive though!
and then the battery as soon as you can afford to..