OK, So Ive been speaking to a customer of mine who is an engineer today.

I asked him about making some spacers like this:

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=376418&postcount=16

They are 3.7mm spacers to allow fitting of AWD rear brake rotors onto FWD models without having to buy expensive ralliart rotors.

He said he'd do the first set for me for $30 each (2 are required), and after he has made me a set then he'll let me know how much they cost him to make and a sale price for any more sets that I require.

Would anybody be interested in these if I can get them made up?

thought spacers were illegal? :confused:

thought spacers were illegal? :confused:

No Idea, Jasons VRX got them approved from what his post says?

Once they are behind the rotor whos gonna know?

The Police inspecting the vehicle after a fatal accident, then hitting you with manslaughter. Just kidding thats highly unlikely. If the spacers are truly safe I believe you can get an engineers cert which QT (qld transport) accepts. Dunno about rta

No Idea, Jasons VRX got them approved from what his post says?

Once they are behind the rotor whos gonna know?

Like my old posts stated, the spacers i made are a tight interferance fit onto the axle flange, basically once there on the axle flange they are on there for good but the disc rotor can still be removed easily from the flange/spacer as they fit over top of the spacer just like they normally would on a car without them..

As the brake spacers i made are fitted between the disc and the axle flange the engineer was happy with them and certified them as he stated the 3.7mm spacer was putting no more load onto the stub/flange than what the stock AWD disc does on the stock AWD car.

Wheel spacers on the other hand bolt on to the stock wheel studs and fit between the rim and rotor this places alot more load on to the wheel bearing and wheel studs (due to most spacers being 15mm or thicker), this is why they are illegal.

Would anybody be interested in these if I can get them made up?

Interested.

I'm also interested, would like to have at the back to match the fronts. Although I need to actually get my hands on some rear awd brakes.

:stoopid:

although, if it's just a question of buying a different size rotor, I'm probably more likely to do that.

cheers,
.wook

:stoopid:

although, if it's just a question of buying a different size rotor, I'm probably more likely to do that.

cheers,
.wook

From what Ive read

AWD rear rotors - ~$120
Ralliart Rear Rotors - ~$450

From what Ive read

AWD rear rotors - ~$120
Ralliart Rear Rotors - ~$450

yeah, but in the threads I've just got through reading, you'll be lucky to get the spacers certified, so it's really

AWD rear rotors - ~$120 + NO INSURANCE
Ralliart Rear Rotors - ~$450

$300 is a pittance to pay when you've crashed into a $100k Benz.

cheers,
.wook

as far as i know spacers are illegal no matter where they are.

yeah, but in the threads I've just got through reading, you'll be lucky to get the spacers certified, so it's really

AWD rear rotors - ~$120 + NO INSURANCE
Ralliart Rear Rotors - ~$450

$300 is a pittance to pay when you've crashed into a $100k Benz.

cheers,
.wook

Well my spacers ARE certified and the way my spacers are fitted and work is NO different to so called aftermarket brake places adapt different calipers/rotors to different cars by the use of custom manufactured caliper brackets.

If you REALLY want to get technical, the fitting of ralliart magna/AWD brakes to a NON ralliart/AWD magna could be seen as illegal as only those models of cars were ADR certified with those brakes from factory.

as far as i know spacers are illegal no matter where they are.

Sometimes i wish some people on here would actually read others posts and do some investigating of there own before they say this is illegal etc etc without actually being completely sure. :P

My rotor adapter/spacers have been certified by an engineer and as he said to me what ive done is NO different to how aftermarket brake places adapt different rotors/calipers, he was happy with the setup of mine.

Im happy with mine and i know mines "approved", thats the main thing for me.

Well my spacers ARE certified and the way my spacers are fitted and work is NO different to so called aftermarket brake places adapt different calipers/rotors to different cars by the use of custom manufactured caliper brackets.

If you REALLY want to get technical, the fitting of ralliart magna/AWD brakes to a NON ralliart/AWD magna could be seen as illegal as only those models of cars were ADR certified with those brakes from factory.

correct me if I'm wrong, but these spacers aren't the same design as the ones you've got.

and yes, any changes to brake setup requires certification. so if you were planning to put AWD/Ralliart calipers and Ralliart rotors on a non-AWD/Ralliart magna you need to have them inspected and certified (as I have done with my current front brake setup).

I have no problem doing that, I just don't want an engineer to look at the spacer and say "Nope, pull them off" which they would be unlikely to do without the spacer.

cheers,
.wook

correct me if I'm wrong, but these spacers aren't the same design as the ones you've got.

ok, so it's been a crappy morning and I've read too many threads on this topic today... :confused:

I'm correcting myself, and I'm putting my hand up to get a set of these.

cheers,
.wook

correct me if I'm wrong, but these spacers aren't the same design as the ones you've got.

cheers,
.wook

Its funny you say that cos the link at the start of this thread that was put up to show what the spacers looked like was to my post with pictures of my first trail set of spacers. :D

ok, so it's been a crappy morning and I've read too many threads on this topic today... :confused:

I'm correcting myself, and I'm putting my hand up to get a set of these.

cheers,
.wook

lol No worries mate but it would be good if the person making them for members got them checked and certified as a precaution.

lol No worries mate but it would be good if the person making them for members got them checked and certified as a precaution.
agreed.

ok, so I'm really confused at the moment...

you get the AWD rotors which have a hat height of 60.2 mm, and then add a 3.7 mm spacer so that the rotor lines up with the AWD caliper, right?

that will decrease the length of the wheel studs coming through the rotor by ~7 mm? not sure if that's a huge issue, but is it worth replacing the studs?

cheers,
.wook

agreed.

ok, so I'm really confused at the moment...

you get the AWD rotors which have a hat height of 60.2 mm, and then add a 3.7 mm spacer so that the rotor lines up with the AWD caliper, right?

that will decrease the length of the wheel studs coming through the rotor by ~7 mm? not sure if that's a huge issue, but is it worth replacing the studs?

cheers,
.wook

The wheel studs will only be shorter by the thickness of the spacer (3.7mm), as the thickness of the disc mounting face is the same between both the normal disc and the AWD disc.

Also remember that the wheel studs are there to hold the wheel to the car NOT to actually support the cars weight as that is done by the "centre bore"/hub centre (this is why sum aftermarket mags come with small reducer to make the centre of the rim the same as the actual cars.)

The wheel studs will only be shorter by the thickness of the spacer (3.7mm), as the thickness of the disc mounting face is the same between both the normal disc and the AWD disc.

Also remember that the wheel studs are there to hold the wheel to the car NOT to actually support the cars weight as that is done by the "centre bore" (this is why sum aftermarket mags come with small reducer to make the centre of the rim the same as the actual cars.)

yeah, I know the studs don't take the weight of the car. the centre bore will still protrude enough from the hat to hold the rim? that's where the spacer sits, right?

just got a quote for DBA AWD rear rotors...

DBA 429S(L/R) - $180 each (standard slotted)
DBA 4429 - $190 each (4000 series standard)
DBA 4429S(L/R) - $240 each (4000 series slotted)

I'm assuming pads will be more expensive too!

cheers,
.wook

EDIT: haha, just got off the phone with the local Mitsu dealer...

Ralliart rear rotors - $363.25 each :shock:
AWD rear rotors - SAME!!!

those 4000 series slotteds are looking cheap!

Probably a bit of an ignorant question...but...

Does this affect the front/rear brake bias of the car? Doing fronts increases the braking power at the front will only help a Magna given the brakes are pretty ordinary. But what if you had slightly upgraded brakes at the front and mega brakes at the rear? Could the braking bias be put out of whack?

Probably a bit of an ignorant question...but...

Does this affect the front/rear brake bias of the car? Doing fronts increases the braking power at the front will only help a Magna given the brakes are pretty ordinary. But what if you had slightly upgraded brakes at the front and mega brakes at the rear? Could the braking bias be put out of whack?

i think the ABS and EBD would balance that out

According to the latest DBA catalogue rear Ralliart rotors are available...

TJ Ralliart 2002 - 03- R - 42429 Vented 284 - 57 - 20 - 18.4 - 90 - 5

-
However getting these spacers would be great for those chasing a Brembo upgrade...

According to the latest DBA catalogue rear Ralliart rotors are available...

TJ Ralliart 2002 - 03- R - 42429 Vented 284 - 57 - 20 - 18.4 - 90 - 5

-
However getting these spacers would be great for those chasing a Brembo upgrade...

is that catalogue online?

EDIT: just got off the phone with my local brakes place. that part number is for reference only, which means DBA do NOT make these rotors, they are genuine Mitsu parts and imported. they couldn't quote me a price, but said it would be about the same as Mitsu quoted me.

is that catalogue online?


http://www.dba.com.au/2006/PDF_CATALOGUE/Catalogue_AUST/2007_AUSTCatalogue_180607.pdf

page 89

http://www.dba.com.au/2006/PDF_CATALOGUE/Catalogue_AUST/2007_AUSTCatalogue_180607.pdf

page 89

DBA have rear rotors listed for the ralliart magna but they are unavailable to buy. They have had them listed for over 6months now.

i think the ABS and EBD would balance that out

ABS would just sense the lock and release the breaks...still not ideal.

EBD would apply pressure to the pads, but would apply the same pressure to the pads with the uprated brakes as with the stock brakes.

Perhaps EBD is smarter than just sensing load on the wheels and having a set map/lookup to apply the appropriate pressure to the brakes. *shrug*

will the centre bore will still protrude enough from the hat to hold the rim? that's where the spacer sits, right?
anyone?

you could always just take 1 of your wheels off and measure how much centre bore you have protruding, the subtract 3.7mm and see how much you have left over, and see if you are happy with having your wheels be held on by that amount.

wouldn't another option just be to 3.7mm washers on the 2 bolts that hold the bracket that the caliper mounts in? put then in between the bracket and the back of the hub area that it mounts to? or make a 3.7mm shim up to go in there? that way you will still have all of your centre hub protruding through to take full weight.

you could always just take 1 of your wheels off and measure how much centre bore you have protruding, the subtract 3.7mm and see how much you have left over, and see if you are happy with having your wheels be held on by that amount.

wouldn't another option just be to 3.7mm washers on the 2 bolts that hold the bracket that the caliper mounts in? put then in between the bracket and the back of the hub area that it mounts to? or make a 3.7mm shim up to go in there? that way you will still have all of your centre hub protruding through to take full weight.

^^^ that is possibly the best way to do this. a couple of spring washers would probably do the job.

wouldn't another option just be to 3.7mm washers on the 2 bolts that hold the bracket that the caliper mounts in? put then in between the bracket and the back of the hub area that it mounts to? or make a 3.7mm shim up to go in there? that way you will still have all of your centre hub protruding through to take full weight.

I think you'll find that would make things worse. My understanding is that if you did that - you would then end up with calipers that are 7.4mm (3.7mm x 2) out of alignment with the AWD spec rotors.

i can't see how it would. the taller hat on the awd rotors makes it so you have to put a spacer on them to move them 3.7mm towards the outside of the car. putting the washers where i sugested would leave the rotors where they are and more the calipers 3.7mm inwards, which would have the same effect.

Seems to me like your bringing the rotor out to the caliper, not the caliper out to the rotor, hence the rotor is being pushed out 3.7mm

i can't see how it would. the taller hat on the awd rotors makes it so you have to put a spacer on them to move them 3.7mm towards the outside of the car. putting the washers where i sugested would leave the rotors where they are and more the calipers 3.7mm inwards, which would have the same effect.

I wouldn't have thought you could "space" the caliper "inwards". I would have thought to move the caliper inwards you would need to machine 3.7mm out of the bracket that they mount to.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

Seems to me like your bringing the rotor out to the caliper, not the caliper out to the rotor, hence the rotor is being pushed out 3.7mm
thats how i understand it.....

I wouldn't have thought you could "space" the caliper "inwards". I would have thought to move the caliper inwards you would need to machine 3.7mm out of the bracket that they mount to.

Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

You are correct blackbeard. By spacing the caliper with washers u are moving the caliper outwards which is the wrong way for it to go.

The reason the rotor needs spacing is to "centralize" the rotor in the middle of the caliper.

Without the spacer the rotor is too close to the back brake pad on the caliper, if the rotor was more towards the front pad on the caliper THEN spacing the caliper outwards with washer would centralize the rotor in the middle of the caliper.

If only i could get all you people together around my car and physically show you what we are all talking about it would make is soooooo much easier to understand. :P


If people dont like the "rotor" spacer setup then ya could always go with the shim setup that we used at MMAL on the first "prototype" ralliart which used AWD rear rotors adapted to the standard hubs.

For people who have forgotten what the shim looks like here is the drawings:

*Note the shims are only 3.5mm there is a reason for this but its more complicated to explain than the rotor spacer, so if people want to know then i will explain it to them via PM and it would help if they had a diassembled stub/hub to look at.

I'm in the process of getting a quote for this spacer also.

Gas_Hed: let us know when/if you get a price from your guy.

cheers,
.wook

Dont wanna jack the thred but.....


The wheel studs will only be shorter by the thickness of the spacer (3.7mm), as the thickness of the disc mounting face is the same between both the normal disc and the AWD disc.

Also remember that the wheel studs are there to hold the wheel to the car NOT to actually support the cars weight as that is done by the "centre bore"/hub centre (this is why sum aftermarket mags come with small reducer to make the centre of the rim the same as the actual cars.)

Just for argument sake if i lost one of these spacers (and when u say reducers you mean rim reducers, not center bore reducers?) would it be silly to drive around with one missing? (i hate putting them on and off everytime i put the stockies on)

Dont wanna jack the thred but.....



Just for argument sake if i lost one of these spacers (and when u say reducers you mean rim reducers, not center bore reducers?) would it be silly to drive around with one missing? (i hate putting them on and off everytime i put the stockies on)

it can cause seriously problems if you are driving spiritedly.

the rims can shift and end up shearing off your studs.

so put them on when you change rims. seriously, you don't want to lose a wheel at any speed.

cheers,
.wook

got a quote back for the 3.7mm disk spacers in machined aluminium... $120 for the set.

I was told that 4mm steel would be significantly cheaper, but I'm not sure how much tolerance there is. does that 0.3mm make much of a difference?

cheers,
.wook

How about the handbrake assembiliy? Well changing the discs cange anything?

How about the handbrake assembiliy? Well changing the discs cange anything?
because the hat height on the AWD disks is greater and the spacer only changes that by the amount of difference (3.7mm), the hand brake assembly *should* be just fine.

if you put a hole in the spacer at the same place as the rotor, you could still access the park brake adjuster with the disk on. if not, you'd have to take the disk off to adjust the park brake.

cheers,
.wook

got a quote back for the 3.7mm disk spacers in machined aluminium... $120 for the set.

I was told that 4mm steel would be significantly cheaper, but I'm not sure how much tolerance there is. does that 0.3mm make much of a difference?

cheers,
.wook

The first trial set i made were made out of a piece CS1045 steel bar (they are the ones that you saw in the pictures). The actual ones on my car that were certified were CNC machined out of a 140mm diameter piece of aluminium.

is that catalogue online?

EDIT: just got off the phone with my local brakes place. that part number is for reference only, which means DBA do NOT make these rotors, they are genuine Mitsu parts and imported. they couldn't quote me a price, but said it would be about the same as Mitsu quoted me.

Who looks after group purchases, perhaps if there is enough of us wanting the rear Ralliart rotors, we could approach DBA for a purchase, I'm up for a pair !

I could see if my brake guy can ask them.

personally I'd want the 4000 6x6 wiper slot series. linky (http://www.dba.com.au/2006/products_4000.asp)

come on, show of hands, how many members are we talking about?

.wook