Im thinking of buying an AWD for gravel rally, Ive been thinking hard on the pros and cons. Its come down to the gearbox, I dont know much about these auto boxes and some of you might know more. I want to know the strengthening modifications possible on this gearbox, not so much the gearing itself but the clutch/torque converter and anything else they shoved in here that could break. I want to know the weakest link in these gearboxes and what after market product can be installed. Maybe a race spec stall converter or something i dont know. Any help from the tech gurus would be great.

I heard from someone these gearboxes are used in the the evolution lancer auto version too, maybe this could make it possible.

On the other hand I have a rally ready cams log booked imported Toyota Celica GT4 available to me for sale. But its more money and I lose the aussie touch that I want from the magna.

It is the same INVECS-II auto trans from the EVO 7 GT-A and Galant VR-4. I'd start trauling some EVO and Galant forums.

really if you want to race it, I would recommend dropping a manual into it. an EVO VI or VII manual box should fit, although it might require a little bit of bell housing modification.

cheers,
.wook

i'm pretty sure the gearbox was standard in the awd vr-x's being piloted by ross dunkerton in the ARC a few years ago

yeah, he did.

"The new-look TMR began in 2004, campaigning a pair of automatic all-wheel-drive Magna VR-Xs that ran almost faultlessly and took Dunkerton to the Australia Cup."

source (http://www.rally.com.au/events/canberra06/news/articleid=1904)

depends on the rules of your category whether automatics are allowed. and the drivetrain loss for a manual would be much less.

anyway, to the OP it would appear that the autos are fairly strong (at least strong enough to run a season in ARC).

cheers,
.wook

were those gearboxes compleatley stock tho?

Well they definitely need a tranny cooler. Even for enthusiastic street driving. Otherwise the shifts start to slur after a while.

Well they definitely need a tranny cooler. Even for enthusiastic street driving. Otherwise the shifts start to slur after a while.
Yeh that's the only thing i know of that helps, can pinch one from a 2nd gen.

They have no tranny cooler?

They have no tranny cooler?
Nope.

Thats stupid, at least it's an easy fix.

they have a cooler, just not a seperate one. it is in the bottom of the radiator

So these boxes have a in/out tranny oil valve for a bolt on oil cooler? I would prolly get an after market cooler not a second hand from a 2nd gen. Thats some useful info, I didnt know that rally awd vrx was running stock box, thats also some neat info. Manual conversion phisically would be no problem but I have a big feeling we will have large problems with the electonics, im pretty sure the ecus are different in and auto then a manual and maybe even more different in an AWD. I dont mind the small loss of power and automatic clutch, it can be countered.

What about the rear diff, or center diff, does the awd magna give even 50/50 power front back? Any type of LSD in the stock awd, how does it handle loss of tranction? Can these be upgraded with aftermarket LSDs??

Thanks for all the info so far.

why not import a VR4? can get it in manual, probably alot easier to find a nice one, full LSD, AYC, all the evo bits ;) and might look really different being rallied :) also a lil bit more power ;)

I'd take the GT4 over a magna any day.

So these boxes have a in/out tranny oil valve for a bolt on oil cooler? I would prolly get an after market cooler not a second hand from a 2nd gen. Thats some useful info, I didnt know that rally awd vrx was running stock box, thats also some neat info. Manual conversion phisically would be no problem but I have a big feeling we will have large problems with the electonics, im pretty sure the ecus are different in and auto then a manual and maybe even more different in an AWD. I dont mind the small loss of power and automatic clutch, it can be countered.

What about the rear diff, or center diff, does the awd magna give even 50/50 power front back? Any type of LSD in the stock awd, how does it handle loss of tranction? Can these be upgraded with aftermarket LSDs??

Thanks for all the info so far.

all autos on everycar are cooled through the radiator, and when an aftermarket cooler is fitted, its wise to still use the factory cooler (wont go into details here, but properly installed it wont leak!)

manual conversion whilst proably possible, i doubt you'd get change from 5+K

rear diff is a Viscous LSD, ctr diff is a viscous coupling

not sure about ctr diff, being same as evo's you can upgrade it... but dollars and electrics would rule it almost impossible to install an active ctr diff like late evo's so you'd be stuck with the mechanical model

drive is normally 50:50 but it varies! can be as much af 90+% front etc... mainly front biased!

i have seen it with more rear bias though but not often..

how does it handle loss of traction?
not sure what you mean here, but the drivetrain is pretty clever, and not too bad off the beaten track, i'd look into a front LSD as well, but generally it dosent spin just one wheel if you loose traction, it all spins....


i agree with above post, get an old VR4 or lancer GSR etc... but if you must have a Magna awd im sure it will do well, considering it wont the championship as a pretty much Stock standard car vs modified sedans

i agree with above post, get an old VR4 or lancer GSR etc... but if you must have a Magna awd im sure it will do well, considering it wont the championship as a pretty much Stock standard car vs modified sedans

i actually didnt mean an old VR4, i meant a 1998-2002 model with all the evo parts, proper suspension setup, good diff etc

I didnt think they made vr4s that late. I know the magna would be a hasle to modify and its a heavy family sedan but I like the idea because its the only aussie made awd sedan so it would be an 'all Aussie racer'. I would personally rather the DIY path then buying a rally ready 300kw to the ground awd powerhouse 'like the rest'. I dont enter rallies to win, and its defently not for money as there is nothing of the sort till ARC. This will only be for club level rally events and it would be built for fun and experience in both building and racing. I just think it would be cool rocking up to a rally competing against evos and scoobies in my magna :)

Im learning towards the GT4 now because the local toyota franchisee has offered a sponsorship, but I might still do this one day.

Thanks for all the info.

I didnt think they made vr4s that late.


really... try telling Kilbilly that ;)


http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/dealerstock.php?carID=17613
http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/modules/dealers/car_images/45211088-1.jpg
http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/modules/dealers/car_images/45211088-2.jpg
http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/modules/dealers/car_images/45211088-3.jpg
http://www.prestigemotorsport.com.au/modules/dealers/car_images/45211088-4.jpg

pure porn!

that looks nice, practically a magna interior.

The AWD gearboxs are straight out of an EVO 6 or 7 (can't remeber which 1 exactly). Therefore, most of the weak points will be the same. I have an AWD and it does definantly need a trannie cooler if racing.

Hope this helps.

that looks nice, practically a magna interior.

yeah theyre pretty similar, basically like a rada on steroids :P

oh but hardly ever see those leather ones, with that much woodgrain, most are more basic inside (like comparing Verada Ei interior to GTVi)... that one actually represents a good buy... hell i'd get it if i was still looking... black, manual, tan, nardi... whats not to love!

most vehicles that have an AWD platform will have a drive bias to either the front or rear wheels. The drive bias adjusts itself as needed. If you changed your AWD to a manual, u would just need to get an ecu from a manual car and youd be sorted i reckon.

Drivetrain is almost all EVO6.

Centre Diff is EVO6 Viscous Coupled
Rear diff is mechanical plate type LSD from EVO6 RS modedl (non AYC)
Front diff is open from EVO6
Tailshaft is from EVO6
Auto Box is from EVO7 GTA.

Brakes are direct from EVO4, 294X24mm front twin piston calipers.

Ass has been said, Ross Dunkerton used a pretty much standard Magna AWD VRX to win the Aussie class in the ARC a couple of years ago.

G'box is rated at 510nm, there are tranny valve upgrade kits thru US suppliers to the eclipse, evo etc. Don't think you'll hurt it anytime soon. Powersliding can be unpredictable esp the sudden grip as power and speed drop. I have a few favourate roundabouts and corner near my place :shifty:

I have a few favourate roundabouts and corner near my place :shifty:

Wouldnt happen to begin at Molly Morgan Corner then in towards ashtonfield would it?

Thats right, busted! Ive seen you scream thru there.

Powersliding can be unpredictable esp the sudden grip as power and speed drop.

I agree! But I thought it was just my lack of skill! Just did a couple of hundred km's of dirt road powersliding in north east gippsland :D. Seems to be a strong gearbox

Wouldnt happen to begin at Molly Morgan Corner then in towards ashtonfield would it?

Thats right, busted! Ive seen you scream thru there.

Nah, never been there in my life, officer.

The on ramp spiral from the newcastle link road onto the F3 is awesome in the rain, need a front strut brace thou, the front end bogs down pretty hard. This always sorts out the deadshlts that sit on my hump just before the spiral. Usually take it in the 90-95kph range - but this is dangerous folks, so don't try it!!!!

This always sorts out the deadshlts that sit on my hump just before the spiral. Usually take it in the 90-95kph range - but this is dangerous folks, so don't try it!!!!

How's it handle over that little metal join in the road, tail in a fwd feels so skittish.

How's it handle over that little metal join in the road, tail in a fwd feels so skittish.

The fwd is dragging - my awd is pushing ;) AWD doesn't even know the expansion plate is there.

If went over one of those expansion joints on a bend, in the wet with my FWD under load, it was an automatic half lane change. lol

If went over one of those expansion joints on a bend, in the wet with my FWD under load, it was an automatic half lane change. lol

I think the joint is well before I need to flick it anyway. I will check it tomorrow arvo. Btw, rain is predicted :D

Speaking of fun roads in newcastle, the last roundabout on honeysuckle drive is so slippery in the wet. Last 4 times i've been round it i've had the car sideways unintentionally, only need to be going like 40.