Just bought a power chip for my 3 litre TF magna - supposed to increase power by 15 kw and 22 nm or torque - I'll let everyone know how it goes once I get it fitted - should fly even more - Yeehah!

Excellent. Good luck. Does it get dyno tuned? We'll want to see dyno charts before and after :)

Just a plug in pretuned ignition piggy back that can be installed at home, but I'll let someone who knows what they are doing do it for me

It's not one of those ones off Ebay is it?

Cannot wait for the results! As I have said before, they promise much, but do they deliver.


Just bought a power chip for my 3 litre TF magna - supposed to increase power by 15 kw and 22 nm or torque - I'll let everyone know how it goes once I get it fitted - should fly even more - Yeehah!

nice. how much for btw?

This site is a good site for this sort of thing (for older and new Magna's) but they are NOT cheap !!!

Just select the year/make/model and away you go...

http://www.powerchipgroup.com/index.asp

Once you have selected your car and the availability & price is displayed.
Don't forget to enter your Name and Email address - it will then send you a PDF file - heaps of info including charts of KW improvement etc.

eg... (for my 95 V6 Magna)...

I checked for my car

In standard form, the Magna Sports/VR-X 3.5 V6 produces 163 kW and 317 Nm.

Powerchip has a range of chips to suit your car, which can increase it's power to between 172 kW and 177 kW, and it's torque to between 332 Nm and 342 Nm.

The price of the Powerchip is AUD $889.90

also

Powerchip requirement:

You specified that you currently run Standard Unleaded, occasional Optimax.

You must run a higher grade of fuel to have a Powerchip installed

Mitsubishi - Magna Sports/VR-X 3.5 V6
Make Mitsubishi
Model Magna Sports/VR-X 3.5 V6
Fuel Required (More info) 98 RON Only <<<===========

Power Standard 163 kW
Power Powerchip Gold 98 (More Info) 177 kW

Torque Standard 317 Nm
Torque Powerchip Gold 98 342 Nm

Gold 98 Powerchip Inc GST) AUD $889.90 + Shipping/Handling



so

for 14kw (max) extra
and

25 NM ( max)

you pay $890+ shipping and handling + always run on 98 RON hmmm too expensive atm

Did u try with different breathing mods to compare results. Surprisingly gives u the same gain. Interesting.... :idea:
That's why I'm bit sussy about it.

If you tune your car to run 98 octane you'll keep relatively the same fuel economy. Obviously it depends how you drive it.

I think it's too expensive for what it does.

The gains for the sohc 12v were from 120kW to 134, from 235nm torque to 258.

For a bit more you could go a greddy emanage which can be retuned at anytime anywhere.

If you get more mods the powerchip will have to be retuned (if it can be??)

If you're not going to mod anymore then fine, but I'd go unichip instead...same gains and costs less.

Question:

What variables does these chips (unichip, powerchip, egreddy .... etc) use to adjust the signals being sent to the ECU? does it actually by pass the ECU? surely it can't with piggy back system....

So this brings me to wonder, what exactly does these chips alter to get more power? is it just adjusting the A/F ratio by tricking your O2 sensor signal, your MAF signal, your intake temp signal etc...? if so, is powerchip just another one of those chips similar to what they sale on ebay that just alter the A/F and make your car run a bit richer to get a bit more power? So really, you're paying for your car to be dyno tuned for a RON98 fuel. that's it?

No idea what it does to the car, just that I bought it off someone for $200. For that price I figured may as well give it a go, then get the muffler and k and n panel, then we'll see how she goes. Unfortunately not much time to get it anywhere to get it dynoed :(

do you know how to insert this powerchip into your ECU???

It has a wiring diagram with it, it's a separate "box" that says reprogrammable ignition computer. Umm, I could probably do it myself, as the diagram looks okay, but I don't wanna blow it up he he he :lol:

Got a Powerchip installed a few weeks ago. It's a piggy-back system, that is installed under the centre console just behind the driver's footrest. Unlike Commodores where the chips can be exchanged, Mitsu runs a fully embedded ECU so that's why it's a piggy back only. And because of the nature of the fully embedded ECU, you can't just muck about in your garage with a screwdriver and change the settings to advance the timing etc (contrary to a few views in this forum!! :roll: ).

I've posted my views on the Powerchip (all positive) in another post in this forum. Overall it wasn't cheap, I was very dubious before I went ahead and had it installed, it needs 98RON; but the results (at least on my vehicle - TH Sports 3.5L) were dramatic and well worth it.

That said on cost: it's much cheaper than Unichip, GReddy etc, but it does mean you can't further modify the engine (so what, I'm not going to change the cams or TT the engine anyway). It will work with other exhaust mods, so I've got the Pacemaker extractors and Lukey exhaust and as a package would suggest there's little difference now compared with a Ralliart in terms of outright performance.

so I've got the Pacemaker extractors and Lukey exhaust and as a package would suggest there's little difference now compared with a Ralliart in terms of outright performance.

Glad you're happy with it. but just wanna point out that it's still few grand away from comparing to the Overall RalliArt performance though. just the LSD is $1.6k or so. not mentioning the suspension setup. but perhaps going in a straight line it's as fast as the RalliArt? ;)

Hmmm, thought I might get some feedback on my Ralliart comment! I've got a tip auto, so you've got to compare apples with apples (Ralliart auto does not have LSD either). Having tested a Ralliart auto (all they had as a demo), I reckon I'm very, very close on the performance with mine.

The Ralliart suspension is not that flash with the exception of the Koni shocks. I've totally overhauled the suspension on my vehicle including much bigger swaybars front and rear (than the Ralliart) and engine struct brace. While I didn't feel the Koni shocks were worth the cost and fitted Monroes, I'm pretty sure my setup will go round the twisty bits everybit as well, if not better, than an auto Ralliart.

I'm not knocking Ralliarts, I think they're great but they were clearly overpriced to begin with (just look at the price Mitsu is charging to get rid of all the leftover ones they couldn't sell), and it's quite possible to build a Ralliart equaller or even eater for thousands less. Another of my 2c worth!!!

Fencer, you CAN advance the ignition timing by twisting the distributor on a TR/TS V6, it's not set by the ECU.

I've been thinking about getting a Powerchip for a while. On the Ralliart it bumps up power to 197kW and torque up to 352Nm. This is about a 7% improvement.

I wonder if it's a noticable difference?

Their figures show that the 333Nm maximum torque from the standard chip, occurs 1500rpm sooner (2500rpm) with the Powerchip so maybe this gives an indication of how it would ride.

i wouldnt trust a power chip

i wouldnt trust a power chip

Well, you'll see a gain but I'd prefer a chip tuned to the workings of the engine. These off the shelf chips would be tuned for stockish cars so would go alright for Joe Bloggs who want's a bit more get up and go but doesn't want to spend money on other mods. Once you've done two or three exhaust / intake mods, they wouldn't work as well as a Unichip or similar.

Another chipping topic here:

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5591&start=0

Fencer, you CAN advance the ignition timing by twisting the distributor on a TR/TS V6, it's not set by the ECU.

You can also do this on the TE+ 4cyl and V6's. The TR onwards 4cyl (EFI) and V6's have an Ignition Timing map in the ECU.

You can still adjust the timing from the distributor, although, the disadvantage of doing it that way is that it's a constant advance/retard of the ignition timing. The ECU maps the ignition timing to air/fuel ratios and engine RPM.

i dont think they end up being much cheaper than a greddy setup, my greddy end up costing $1200 with installation and tuning! If the Powerchip is $900ish then I think the extra $300 is well spent in getting a programmable piggyback ECU.

[quote:bd4acca494="Killbilly"]Fencer, you CAN advance the ignition timing by twisting the distributor on a TR/TS V6, it's not set by the ECU.

You can also do this on the TE+ 4cyl and V6's. The TR onwards 4cyl (EFI) and V6's have an Ignition Timing map in the ECU.

You can still adjust the timing from the distributor, although, the disadvantage of doing it that way is that it's a constant advance/retard of the ignition timing. The ECU maps the ignition timing to air/fuel ratios and engine RPM.[/quote:bd4acca494]

True..it's not the proper way to do it...but it's the cheapest ;) lol

And it works well if you do it right with a timing light

Yep ok Killbilly - I guess I was talking about 3rd Gen vehicles as most of the punters discussing the topic have those vehicles. Sooo, let me be a bit more specific then: on a TH-TL 6G74 engine, there is no way to modify the ECU "at home", it must be re-mapped software, hence the piggy-back computer.

ReallyArt: In Adelaide, Powerchips are installed by Fueltronics who told me that they've installed quite a few Powerchips in Ralliart Magnas, and they reckon the results are very impressive indeed, and would probably blow my Sports out the water!

Overall, I'm not denying that Unichip and Greddy give you extra flexibility, but Powerchip does provide real performance results (and believe me I was sceptical going into it), and with the money I saved over one of the other chips, it paid for the Pacemaker extractors.

Fencer, just say the 24v engines available in Australia :lol:

I'd love to find someone over here who fits and tunes the Greedy unit. At the moment, I'm going to get the Unichip because of that.

If I wanted an easy increase in power I'd do what Fencer has done: install a Powerchip. I'd first get my car dyno'd, then straight away take it to where they're installing the chip, then I'd take it back to the dyno and get it tested again. Same machinery, same temp, same day. If there wasn't an improvement "as advertised" then consumer affairs could have their way with them. At least Power chip give quantifyable figures that makes them accountable.

We regularly buy (at great expense) products claiming to offer improvements in performance but never actually have any means of quantifying the gains. Some of these products work and others don't. For example, can anyone tell me in real values (not just seat of the pants) how much improvement in performance something like an aftermarket cold air intake has added to their car.
I don't claim to be an expert, but I measured the smallest cross sectional area of the standard unit and it is larger than the cross sectional area of the tail pipe. Maybe I'm missimg something, but basic physics would suggest that the air coming in ain't gonna combust any quicker than the spent gas can get out.

Hope I'm wrong and there is some black magic involved 'cause I'll be the first one out buying the goodies.

No worries fencer, I wasnt sure if you were talking about the whole magna range or just that particular engine, thanks for clearing that up :D

For example, can anyone tell me in real values (not just seat of the pants) how much improvement in performance something like an aftermarket cold air intake has added to their car.
I don't claim to be an expert, but I measured the smallest cross sectional area of the standard unit and it is larger than the cross sectional area of the tail pipe. Maybe I'm missimg something, but basic physics would suggest that the air coming in ain't gonna combust any quicker than the spent gas can get out.

I'm certainly no expert either, but I think it's not just about air volume, but about resistance.

I would hope that air intake mods and exhaust mods would place less resistance on the air getting in and going out, freeing the engine, so it makes more power?

Okay velocity, now your starting to think about it. How can a volume of gas ie 2 litres coming in, have less volume than that going out??

I'm not saying that it can't, I just want someone to prove it.

don't forget gases are compressible fluids, and also velocity of the flow has a huge impact as well.

in the Compression stroke, your control volume is actually smaller, yet with the same mass, hence increase in pressure. When the combustion stroke kicks in, what you've compressed is now expanded again, back to the same volume however pressure is increased due to combustion. When the exhaust valve opens, the difference in pressure in the cylinder and the exhaust manifold forces the high pressure fluid in the cylinder to escape out the exhaust manifold into the collectors and into the pipes to the CAT and so on... at each step, there's increase in pipe diameter, this helps to suck the gases out of the cylinder as it is a property of gas to evenly fill up space, in other words equalize pressure. Now depending on how restrictive your CAT back system is, the speed at which the exhaust gas is limited. The important note to remember is that all of the exhaust gases will exit the system, but how much back pressure they create in the process is what you have to over come. Obviously, the less back pressure the quicker the gas leaves, the more tha back pressure the slower the gas leaves. If there were bottle necks in the system, it will slow down the exiting gas, hence increase the back pressure and make your pistons do more work to push the exhaust gas out.

Is this enough explaination to prove it, ReallyArt?

I haven't even touched on how Extractors and headers work btw...

Yeah, that's what I'm saying Whitedevil. The cross sectional area of the tail pipe is much smaller than any part of the cold air intake. The standard exhaust systems on the magnas (from the headers back) is generally not considered to be restrictive. So how can fitting a larger induction system (on a standard engine) make any difference if the standard one already exceeds the flow capacity of the tail pipe.

My original point was that we should question the value of any alleged performance enhancing additions unless they come with evidence. Powerchip at least quotes the improvement you will get, if you don't, you are well within your rites to ask for your money back.

I agree, intakes don't do much unless you turbo your cars. The stock is more than enough to take care of our Engine's demands.

I thought the point of having COLD AIR INTAKE is because cold air combusts better (or something??). Therefore it is not a matter of 'how much' but 'temperature'.. everyone knows cars run crappy in hot weather so it is already proven that if you eliminate the hot air (with CAI) you will see improvements. Granted you cant really measure them easily, but the theory on the actual pipe size is irrelevant.

the stock intake is good enough for that. previded that the car is moving, the stock intake is located at a very good position and the air going into the butterfly should not be heated up very much at all from the stock air box and stock intake.

The point of CAI is that cold air is more dense...you're right Candarin

how much improvement in performance something like an aftermarket cold air intake has added to their car.
I don't claim to be an expert, but I measured the smallest cross sectional area of the standard unit and it is larger than the cross sectional area of the tail pipe. Maybe I'm missimg something, but basic physics would suggest that the air coming in ain't gonna combust any quicker than the spent gas can get out.

Hope I'm wrong and there is some black magic involved 'cause I'll be the first one out buying the goodies.

Yeah combustion physics is a little more complex than x-section area in versus out. There are changes in combustion that change volume and obviously mass of the exhaust (you've just added fuel). The reason for a CAI is to get cold air.

The colder the inlet conditions the denser the air therefore the more fuel per stroke and therefore energy per stroke (the map sesnor can tell how much air has gone past, it measures the temp and pressure to calculate air density

The spitfire was an intersting aircraft for this phenomina. As the aircaft climbed very high it would sometime injest some very cold water into the inlet and the supercharged engine would nearly blow its top. The cold water greatly increased the air density after it was superdharged and therefore as the density was high it could produce more power.

So you have scoops on a WRX feeding cold air straight onto their interheater (i would call it an intercooler but the engine actually reduces the performance of it due to its heating) so that cools the air after the turbo heats it up. Obviously as the air is now much hotter than ambient just blowing cold air over it is good. But for NAs you have to jsut get your cold air fom somewhere.

Sorry for simplifications; beers in and logical physics out. But there are advantages of CAI. The less the the heat of the road the better but you still can't win that much. you don't need any more x-section than the butterfly can issue +error for drag losses of the feed pipe. some fluid mechanics (like a sober me) could probably work out the minimised flow restrictioons and therefore optimised (but still not trumpets stiking out of your bonnets) pipe diameter to give best flow.

WOW I think I need another Beer.

Tune in next time kiddies as uncle Bart tries to explain tuned length and the advantage of extractors. Bye now. :lol:

Okay, point taken on cross sectional area Allpaw.

I guarantee the standard cold air intake on Magnas feeds just as much "cold" air as an aftermarket unit. If anyone knows differently, feel free to offer the proof (read dyno readouts)

We should be looking at ways of reducing the temperature of incoming air. How about a type of wet sponge panel that lines the inside of the CAI ducting? Kind of like evaporative cooling? It could be fed by capillary action maybe.

CAI is a difficult thing to get right and quantify.

The main reasons for CAI are:

> Accessing colder / denser air
> Reducing pressure drops where compared to the stock induction (this is a key issue as recorded by Autospeed)
> Replacement of the paper filter
> Colder air has the same volume, greater density

Remember, a pod filter might be sucking from a hot engine bay, but it's not experiencing pressure drops through induction piping like the stock system. The stock system does access colder air and is okay, it's just not brilliant and is better than many of the CAI attempts I've seen who's only gains would be from them no longer using the paper filter.

As for intake compared to exhaust. You put your hand near the exhaust and you feel the exhaust gases pulsing? You don't feel that on the intake do you? That's due to the gas is greatly expanded from cold air and is being forced out. An engine is an air pump. The only restriction in the exhausts are the mufflers on the base models and those spastic headers.

agreed with all of the above.

I don't think you're gona cool down much of the on coming air anymore than what it is, unless you've got a fridge as your intake....

hmm.interesting....

you only need cooling for turbos really, and even then, with a huge intercooler and evaporative spray, the air still doesn't cool down to the outside air temp... there is no way you could cool the intake air more than the outside temp without using energy to make it cold. I'm sure everyone knows that.

I think that the only noticable improvement that you will notice in modifing the stock CAI is if you went to the extent of fitting the K&N CAI that RPW sell, where the fillter is directlly placed in oncoming air.

When I first dicided to modify my intake on my TF I looked at my engine bay for a while, after concluding that there wasn't enough room to improve on the factory system I just fitted a K&N Panel and just cut the weather strip infront of the factory air scoop so it gets a little more air.

hehe. that's was my first mode, taking the weather strip off.... haha.. and i've got another thing you may be interested in phonic, pm me for photos.

:badgrin:

I think we got a bit off topic here.

I am considering a Powerchip for my Ralliart and would like some comments from anyone has experience with them.

Also, if anyone in Sydney has done one to their Magna, id love to check it out.

Im in Sydney and ive got one in my TJ Sports. Come around and i'll give you a run. Im suppose to have 177kw now. Should be able to keep up really well with your ralliart. My clutch is slipping a bit though :?

I have read about some proper tests of different cai's and agree with rally art the standard airbox in the magna is a very good thing. better than a pod in the engine bay sucking hot air, i think too many people just think it adds power like that because of the extra noise, plus can be a defect.
the Dragon aftermarket setups for ford and holden are independently proven to add around 6-8 Kw and these only follow the same basic design of the magna's setup.
but cai's that dont go over the radiator and draw air somewhere else are a bit better still because the air isnt heated at all by the radiator, these usually pick up about an extra 2Kw over cais that go over exhaust headers and radiators.
water evaporation or injection in intake as rallyart suggests does work but very hard to control the right amount if air is too cold or too moist it acts like fuel being too rich-that is upsets the optimum air-fuel mixture.

i think a good option is using the standard airbox with a K&N panel filter, i have actually cut a hole in the front weather panel like phonic, and added a little scoop under that in front of the radiator, i think it makes a bit of extra difference above 100kmh.

Thanks Gremlin, i would like that.

Where in Sydney are you from ??

PM Me and we can arrange something.

Near Bankstown - This is funny. We are organising an illegal street race!

:badgrin:

Your Post is going to be deleted if you keep this up. :lol:

Your Post is going to be deleted if you keep this up. :lol:

:lol: heheheh are we talking from expirience :lol:

[quote:31455ddaf7="WhiteDevil"]Your Post is going to be deleted if you keep this up. :lol:

:lol: heheheh are we talking from expirience :lol:[/quote:31455ddaf7]yeah probably.... nah, its probably not wise to discuss these things on AM (or any internet application for that matter), try a mobile....

Well its not illegal to have a run from 0-60km/h is it??? Thats all i was talking about!! :p

Well its not illegal to have a run from 0-60km/h is it??? Thats all i was talking about!! :p

well if you loose traction you could get done for undue noise, and if you accelerate to fast you could get done for reckless driving :shock:

Basically, you can get done for anything, especially when the officer is in a bad mood, you'll get done for something you didn't do. HAHA ;)

ahem...

muhahahahaha
:badgrin:

ahem...

muhahahahaha
:badgrin:

what does that mean?

Gremlin,

I live about 40 minutes west of you but still happy to meet up with you somewhere.

Not really into racing you, i just got my car and am over the whole drag on the street thing.

Just wanting to compare how well your car goes and how the powerchip and other mods have served the car.

If you put your hand under the pipe that is comming out from the air filter box you'll notice a kind of "rubber valve" in which you can insert your finger. What is that for?? It sucks air through that thing too at high revs?

If you put your hand under the pipe that is comming out from the air filter box you'll notice a kind of "rubber valve" in which you can insert your finger. What is that for?? It sucks air through that thing too at high revs?i thought i'd answered this already.. i reckon it would be for water to drain out through... just a thought!

unless the bottom resinator box is missing from there, then thats what the hole would be for...