Hey guys,

Needing some advice.

Custom extractors or Unichip/Powerchip..

Im after something thats going to help a little down low.. Anything over 3000 revs and the car kicks in.. But down low, its a slug...

I cant really see much benefit in the extractors as i dont think they will overall improve it to much..

The RPW extractors in my car made a very noticable improvement over 3K rpm, but did not make any noticable improvement low down.

I think the computer mods will more likely help you there. Or maybe a rising rate FPR.

The FPR in may car definitely gave me low down gains, but I already have the pod and extractors.

The RPW extractors in my car made a very noticable improvement over 3K rpm, but did not make any noticable improvement low down.

I think the computer mods will more likely help you there. Or maybe a rising rate FPR.

The FPR in may car definitely gave me low down gains, but I already have the pod and extractors.

Thanks for the advice.

I wont be touching anything from RPW.. Ive already had one distasteful dealing with that company..

Well, there's that mob who are going to make headers for Magnas which are rumoured to supply them to MMAL.

I'd go a Unichip out of those two. The power is in the tuning, not the chip. The chip is the start and if it's a flexible system, (like the Greddy eManage), then it should allow greater gains through tuning. The chip is only as good as the tuner too. Even though off the shelf chips might be cheaper, they can't be as good as a chip tuned to your car. I'd go find people in motorsport and see who they use to tune with.

I have fitted both a Powerchip and Pacemaker extractors to my car (TH 3.5L Sports tip auto). I believe that the biggest single gain was from the Powerchip (fitted about a week before the Pacemakers) which has made a big difference in power delivery, especially in 2nd and 3rd gears in the auto. The Pacemakers don't feel to have made as big a difference, but they undoubtedly make the whole thing breathe easier. There is no doubt that when I get to around 3000 rpm, it's now like a turbo coming on - a noticeable shove in the back...very nice! Hard to know if it's the Powerchip or the extractors that are responsible by themselves, but I like to think it's the combination which makes for a pleasing package

I should have added to the above that the Powerchip was what made the difference down low (ie. around 1500 rpm up) where it's now much more responsive - a touch on the accelerator now produces results, whereas the extractors only really come into their own above 3000rpm. My 2c anyway...

Bain, I'd get a rising rate FPR (if you dont already have one) and then the unichip if you want to fix below 3000rpm.

Extractors wont do much for low end. There are other companies that make rising rate FPR's...

hey everyone

wouldn't you get more power gains if you modified your car b4 chipping it ? so you could tune more mods in ? or won't it make a difference if you chip it then mod it ?

i am only guessing haha

later 8)

hey everyone

wouldn't you get more power gains if you modified your car b4 chipping it ? so you could tune more mods in ? or won't it make a difference if you chip it then mod it ?

i am only guessing haha

later 8)

Yup that's exactly right. Realistically, it would be a good idea to get all your basic mods in first then chip it. Re-tuning is also an option if you modify your car after chipping.

Anyway, can anyone explain a "Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator" to me? What is involved, where can I get one, how much, and what sort of gains?

Yeah it's usually better to do that...but Bain was asking to do either extractors or unichip.

And seen as though he was aiming for an improvement with low end torque, the extractors wont do that.

Ultimately I think getting both would be the best idea..but that's not what he asked lol.

So the best answer I think is the chip and an FPR to fix up any flat spots.

As KB said. Also, the Powerchip isn't tuned to your car so it doesn't matter if it's fitted first or fitted last. Better designed headers really only feel gains when exhaust gases are moving fast eg. high revs. If they don't cause a loss at low revs and the top end is a great improvement, then they're good headers.

Yeah I would love to get a whole package done to the car.

But seeing as im buying a house soon, i thought id splurge a little before i dont get to.. So i was looking for biggest bang for buck on low end for the car..

Only have around $1500 to spend :/

Well chip and rising rate FPR would probably eat up that 1500 quickly...

But it would be of more benefit to you than extractors, even if they were 1/2 that price.

Ah I missed the point, maybe - I was talking about Unichipping. In any case, can anyone answer my questions about rising rate FPR's?

Apparently it's because the engine leans out early on in the rev range so starts lag a little. Also, once you've done quite a few breathing mods, it's apparently possible that the fuel pressure can't quite match what's needed. The rising rate increases fuel rate at an increasing rate so in theory overcomes these issues. I'm not 100% clued up on the technical aspect of this. It's just what's been explained to me.

What happened?
I have RPW headers in my 3 L 24 V and apart from some design faults (sits too low, far from chassis, but that was fixed) the performance is excellent. Real kick comes before 3K, but there was significant increase in torque even below that. Well - some 10-15 %.
Tell us your story.

FPR - wouldnt any proper high pressure fuel pump do....?

Why can't one chip before headers etc? Headers improve breathing, Oxy sensor and MAS should adapt to that?


I wont be touching anything from RPW.. Ive already had one distasteful dealing with that company..

FPR - wouldnt any proper high pressure fuel pump do....?
If you want to pay the price for a high pressure fuel pump sure. But what the Rising rate FPR does is increases the pressure in the line just before the injectors, the pressure can drop off in the lines, the FPR fixes that. Also it helps overcome programmed (allegedly) flat spots in the ECU.



Why can't one chip before headers etc? Headers improve breathing, Oxy sensor and MAS should adapt to that?

Oxygen sensor only works on idle and cruising, not on acceleration. The MAS Sensor only tells the ECU about the air that's coming through and how much of it. It's still up to the ECU to determine the A/F ratio, so you need to fix that via piggyback system or standalone ECU.

That's what I meant, once the MAS detects the - ammm - mass of air, the ECU will adjust the ratio accordingly. But - perhaps when modding the cars violently like we do 8) , this ECU-only adjustment is insufficient, hence the need for a "chip"?

Didn't know OXY only works on flat gas, not when throttling. Sure? And why not?


Oxygen sensor only works on idle and cruising, not on acceleration. The MAS Sensor only tells the ECU about the air that's coming through and how much of it. It's still up to the ECU to determine the A/F ratio, so you need to fix that via piggyback system or standalone ECU.

Well about other chips, I don't know... but here goes (Unichip)...

The std. engine has on average in between 8-20 points of reference (rev range, speed, etc) where the stockie computer calculates how much fuel, air, and all that sort of shite the engine needs.

What a Unichip does is add a couple of hundred more points to the engine, so each and every little ounce of power can be extracted from your car going a certain amount of revs.

The reason for unichipping AFTER your mods is that after chipping, subsequent mods add or subtract a certain amount of everything is entering and leaving the engine, which may or may not be more or less than what your chip has just been tuned for.

So it's a really good idea to get everything out of the way before that, because if you mod after a chip most likely you won't be recieving enough fuel or air at some points in your revrange. *Phew*. So anyway Killbilly, does that mean a Rising FPR would be useless to those of us with chips?

Good, thanks. I believe this is useful info for most of us, who are doing some more serious mods to our enginies.


Well about other chips, I don't know... but here goes (Unichip)...

An FPR should probably be fitted after you've fitted extractors, high flow muffler, throttle body upgrade, proper CAI and you're about to chip it. A chip can be fitted whenever but is usually fitted last due to the economics of tuning. Personally I'd be checking the A/F ratios after each main mod to make sure the engine isn't leaning out. Leaning out is also addressed with the FPR as there's more pressure in the fuel rail and it's rising at a rate higher than what the stock FPR would provide.

The stock ECU can adapt to minor mods but ultimately won't handle much more. Another feature the piggyback ECU has is that you can advance the timing. This is where most of the gains come from. Things like your SAFC plugs in before the ECU and can adjust the A/F signals by up to 50%. Piggyback chips fit in after the ECU and monitor or modify the signals from the ECU. The Greddy e-Manage performs like an SAFC in it's raw state but once you've attached the injector harness and / or ignition harness, it becomes more flexible, (therefore more powerful), so you have greater options when tuning.

That's what I meant, once the MAS detects the - ammm - mass of air, the ECU will adjust the ratio accordingly. But - perhaps when modding the cars violently like we do 8) , this ECU-only adjustment is insufficient, hence the need for a "chip"?

Agreed


Didn't know OXY only works on flat gas, not when throttling. Sure? And why not?

Very sure (been told by many credible sources)...but I dont know why.

*Phew*. So anyway Killbilly, does that mean a Rising FPR would be useless to those of us with chips?

No not at all. It maintains a good line pressure, I would assume it's not as necessary once you have a chip...but it would be good to have one.

I thought closed loop meant you can't alter it?

Ahhh thanks mate

This is making me all loopy! :roll:

Anyways - Thanks for all that. How did u guess Magna is my very first injection/ECU car. All this kinda stuff is bit foreign. :oops:
But ask me how to adjust a 40 mm DelLorto with a 1600 cc Kent with BCF 2 rod and I'll be fine....

KB - I didn't get it. No need for FPR if chipped? The chip alter fuel pump functions/pressures accordingly?


[quote:3a2374560b="Killbilly"]I thought closed loop meant you can't alter it?

Closed loop is where the ECU uses the oxygen sensor to vary fuel usage to remain economical and EPA emissions compliant.

Open loop is where it sticks to a static map.[/quote:3a2374560b]