Just wondering what everyone have done or tried doing, to reduce or eliminate the poor response of 3.0L magnas from 1000-2500rpm?

I know a few things that helped was
- using syn 10W-30 oils.
- ducted outside air into air box.

super charger

piggyback ecu with a buttload of timing added

Just wondering what everyone have done or tried doing, to reduce or eliminate the poor response of 3.0L magnas from 1000-2500rpm?

I know a few things that helped was
- using syn 10W-30 oils.
- ducted outside air into air box.

K&N Filter

3.5L Engine :)

Seriously though, the 3.0L Manuals are pretty responsive, the Autos taste wang. If its an auto then consider a Manual conversion if you can afford it/want a manual.

Apart from that, any money spent on the 3.0L would be a waste to a degree (puts on flame retardant suit) as a 3.5L would not cost more than say $700 for a reasonably low km engine (about 60,000km last time I enquired) and fitting would be say $500(?) and youll notice a significant difference in low-down torque.

Just my opinion anyway.

if it is an auto then the gear ratios go against you a bit as well. they are as tall as hell, which is why the manual is much more responsive.

i put an oversize throttle body on mine and it noticably improved the throttle response and torque off the line.
i think thats what you were talking about.

Thanks for your comments.

I have an Auto yes, the gears are tall, first will go to 70-75ish, not that you want to too much. Also K&N panel that is ducted to lower psgr side bumper.

if over size throttle body makes a difference, it would mean the stock T/B doesn't supply the engine with enough air at take off?

I think the 3L performs better at high rpm than the 3.5L.

I think the 3L performs better at high rpm than the 3.5L.

I did the 3.0 -> 3.5 conversion not too long ago. While the 3.0 like to rev out a little higher and a bit more freely (optimal 500cc per cylinder configuration), the 3.5 still make more power everywhere in the rev range, especially mid range punch. You can smoothlly accelerate from 40kph in 4th gear (manual) in the 3.5 without worry (the 3.0 would have laboured). The 3.5's are just much better, although with stock cams do tend to feel restricted past 5-5.5K rpm.

Enough dissing us 3.0 auto owners guys. You want response in lower rev range on a 3.0?? My solutions have been K&N pod with bonnet fed ram air, ceramic coated pacemaker extractors, front to back Redback exhaust, Barry fuel rail kit, Barry earthing kit, iridium plugs, EZBoy flowed throttle body, throttle body and inlet manifold gasket kit, EZBoy manifold on order. From a standing start this thing really gets up and flies all the way to the redline. Not as quick as my previous BMW big 6's or Brocks, but still plenty responsive...

Oi Quik one (Schnell).
What's your 1/4 strip time? My mods very similar and can do 16 s.
Yeah, 3 L bit sluggish on low RPM - that's just they way the cams, are I reckon. All breathing mods assist a bit.

Oi Quik one (Schnell).
What's your 1/4 strip time? My mods very similar and can do 16 s.
Yeah, 3 L bit sluggish on low RPM - that's just they way the cams, are I reckon. All breathing mods assist a bit.

15.95 in middle of winter with nice cold air.

Hey I'm 47, so do I qualify for the 'Grumpy Old Men Division' too lol ??

Oi Quik one (Schnell).
What's your 1/4 strip time? My mods very similar and can do 16 s.
Yeah, 3 L bit sluggish on low RPM - that's just they way the cams, are I reckon. All breathing mods assist a bit.

Problem solved, before I diss 3.0L next time i should check the bloody engine oil level after the engine swap. Fricking mechanic overfilled both engine oil and transmission fluid.

I drained both back to recommended levels, and sluggish feel gone!

Okay maybe my mods don't extend to the depth and breath of Schnell,
I have:
pacemakers, heat wraped,
K&N Panel, ducted to take air from front fog lights.
Redback 2.5" cat back.
inline fuel enhancer.
trans cooler
suspension and strut brace.

I can do consistent 15.5 1/4 miles.

15.95 in middle of winter with nice cold air.
Hey I'm 47, so do I qualify for the 'Grumpy Old Men Division' too lol ??

15.95 mmmhhh mumblegrumblemumble(faster than mine)mumble.

Qualify? Well, depends on how much money you wish to give us :rant: Other than that, your age sounds very familiar....:shock:

is 15.5 good?

we've got people in here that claim to do 13sec, 15sec is crap in comparison, but better than stock aye.

out of curiosity when dragging in an auto, for take off if you dropped it from N to D while the revs were up would that f*$# the transmission or would it work?

not brave enough to try.

btw ive got the 4sp tiptronic on the 3.5L.

out of curiosity when dragging in an auto, for take off if you dropped it from N to D while the revs were up would that f*$# the transmission or would it work?

not brave enough to try.

btw ive got the 4sp tiptronic on the 3.5L.

You have a 5 speed, and do not under any circumstances do the N to D drop unless you want to be up for a new tranny very quickly.

well it's never good to dump from N to D anyway, by that i am referring to 4000+ rpm, even in manual, the same forces are experienced through the transmission and drive line.

Let's face it, our transmission isn't designed for this kind of activity. If you do it once or twice, you might get away with it, but if you keep doing this, the life span of your transmission will no doubt be much shorter and you'll quickly experience rough gear changes.

Personally I think launching from N at around 2500 rpm is okay, 3.0L don't put out that much torque at 2500 and there's some time before the torque convertor locks, so in a way that is your grace period for the trans to get some speed before the t/c locks and you have direct drive to the wheels.

anyway. don't do it if want long life. check your trans fluid often if you do and save up for regular services.

Personally I think launching from N at around 2500 rpm is okay
I wouldn't even do that, in a rush to back out of a driveway in a gap in traffic a month or so back i shifted into N as I reversed out onto the road, then slipped it into D simultaneously accelerating (up to about 1500RPM) and it sounded and felt really bad as it slipped for a few moments before grabbing and moving. Didn't do that on purpose btw, was just rushing away.

I supposed if you have to the best way (and by best I mean minimal damage) is probably to left foot brake in D up to about 3 grand then drop the brake and plant your foot, but even so, thats not gonna be good for the car either, just better than a N to D dump.

Okay maybe my mods don't extend to the depth and breath of Schnell,
I have:
pacemakers, heat wraped,
K&N Panel, ducted to take air from front fog lights.
Redback 2.5" cat back.
inline fuel enhancer.
trans cooler
suspension and strut brace.

I can do consistent 15.5 1/4 miles.

This is highly off topic, but I highly recommend removing the "heat wrap" from your extractors, unless you don't mind replacing them frequently. That stuff works too well, and with normal extractors you will end up greatly reducing the life of your extractors. Even turbo manifolds which are made out of much thicker walled pipes will be prone to cracking if heat wrapped.

true that, will look into it, not too hard to remove, just gotta wear respirators or wet it before i do the job. I need to change the extractors anyway soon, the front set has a few bumps on the bottom, i think it might crack down there before the heat wraped parts.

I wouldn't even do that, in a rush to back out of a driveway in a gap in traffic a month or so back i shifted into N as I reversed out onto the road, then slipped it into D simultaneously accelerating (up to about 1500RPM) and it sounded and felt really bad as it slipped for a few moments before grabbing and moving. Didn't do that on purpose btw, was just rushing away.

I supposed if you have to the best way (and by best I mean minimal damage) is probably to left foot brake in D up to about 3 grand then drop the brake and plant your foot, but even so, thats not gonna be good for the car either, just better than a N to D dump.


well i would never have tried it, just sounds like it would do damage. was just thinking if i ever wanted to test my car out on the 1/4 mile just how the best way to take off would be.

but i agree dropping the brake at 3k then flooring it would definitely be better even if it still is bad.

Think about it which scenario has more total work done by the transmission, hence how much actual energy you put through the transmission between these 2 methods.

1) in N, engine at 3000rpm, shift into D and WOT.

2) foot hard on brakes, in D, engine at 3000rpm, let go of brakes and WOT.

I wouldn't even do that, in a rush to back out of a driveway in a gap in traffic a month or so back i shifted into N as I reversed out onto the road, then slipped it into D simultaneously accelerating (up to about 1500RPM) and it sounded and felt really bad as it slipped for a few moments before grabbing and moving. Didn't do that on purpose btw, was just rushing away.

I supposed if you have to the best way (and by best I mean minimal damage) is probably to left foot brake in D up to about 3 grand then drop the brake and plant your foot, but even so, thats not gonna be good for the car either, just better than a N to D dump.


Sounds like you were going backwards while you shifted into D, that's really quite different to a standing start, the forces acting on your drive shafts and your gear box could be many more times that of a 3000rpm N to D drop, you've got the momentum of the car going backwards whilst you're telling the engine to counter that and go forward.

Think about it which scenario has more total work done by the transmission, hence how much actual energy you put through the transmission between these 2 methods.

1) in N, engine at 3000rpm, shift into D and WOT.

2) foot hard on brakes, in D, engine at 3000rpm, let go of brakes and WOT.

well not being mechanically minded i will give it a go.

1. at 3000rpm the transmission has to slip the gear into drive. possible stuffing up the gears.... :confused:

2. the gears are spinning but the brakes are stopping the car from moving.

well how did i go?? lol

using the torque converter as a rubber band?

Ah nah it dont work, revs bog baddly and bands slip in mine.... heat up too quick i think.
i get a better start just bootin it from idle....:nuts:

I get a clunk and jerk anytime my revs are over 1000rpm when changing into D, don't sound right then, wont do it at 1500. nor 3000rpm. HAHA

well not being mechanically minded i will give it a go.

1. at 3000rpm the transmission has to slip the gear into drive. possible stuffing up the gears.... :confused:

2. the gears are spinning but the brakes are stopping the car from moving.

well how did i go?? lol


just remember, Engine connects to torque Convertor and Torque convertor connects to the Automatic gearbox, and Gear box connects to the differentials, differentials drives the drive shafts and the drive shafts turn the wheels.

for 2. if the the gears are spinning while your wheels are not spinning, the transmission is already broken. what should happen is the torque converter is forced to slip. Heats up your transmission fluid very quickly.

for 1. 3000rpm when gearbox is in N, torque converter is dis engaged, engine spins but nothing in gearbox spins. As soon as you slip it into Drive, the first action is the torque converter to be pressurized and it will engage the engine with the transmission. This is the same effect as dumping clutch in manual, except, torque converter is fluid driven, not friction plates, so it can handle inpulse forces far better than the clutch plates can. However, this force has to go somewhere, it is transferred into the gearbox, some people thinks the auto gear box is weak, in some ways yes, in some ways no! if you know what a planetary gear set looks like, you'll quickly see that there's a lot more teeth touching compared to a manual gear box gear set. The more teeth touching means each tooth take less of the total force.

How strong is the auto gear box, as strong as the output shaft is designed to be.



for a quick read on manual transmission, go to:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm

for a quick read on Auto transmission, go to:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic-transmission2.htm

You have a 5 speed, and do not under any circumstances do the N to D drop unless you want to be up for a new tranny very quickly.

Yeah Mits autos are fragile at best. I replaced 5 (yes really) in my TP in 279,000km. And no, I never thrashed it.

I find that the best start that is kindest to the tranny is just put it in D, run normal idle revs, left foot on brake to stop creep, right foot on gas and just mash it on green. My best times have been on slightly wet tracks where you get just a little wheel spin on takeoff. This puts the engine quickly in to the 3,000 torque band.

Yep the only exception to the rule is the AWD trannys - *if properly cooled*, they are pretty tough. Evo tough :)

I wouldn't go around dropping it from N to D, thats just stupid. You can stall them up very nicely for a good hard launch though.

I did an engine swap in my Wifes TE Altera a while ago, removed the 3.0ltr and replaced it with a 3.5ltr and put Ralliart cams in it, and yes its an auto. All you need is the 3.5ltr engine pipe and the dummy shaft behind the engine, easy swap and cost $1000 all up. The car is quicker than the neighbours 5ltr MANUAL Commo*****, much to his disgust, and the 3.0ltr ecu runs the whole show no probs.
If you want to do the converter up most auto trans places can give it about another 5-600rpm stall with out losing the overdrive for about $400 plus install

we've got people in here that claim to do 13sec, 15sec is crap in comparison, but better than stock aye.

know of almost 11sec butt thats highly modded

know of almost 11sec butt thats highly modded

which is why i didn't include it in there, no way i'm going to compare us NA cars to a TT car time.

When mine had the 4-speed auto in, i did my first ever 1/4mile run (15.774s 1/4 mile @146km/h)

I only did exhaust system to 2.5", pod filter and High-flowed TB. Thats it.

Haven't done one since I converted though.