I got a wheel alignment done today, as well as 2 new rear tyres as the inside edges had scrubbed out (yet again!!!)

I got a printout of the alignment data, and I have a fair amount of negative camber on the rears and the front aswell.

I have decided that a camber kit would probably be the best alternative to purchasing new rear tyres every 2 months as I currently do.

I just have a few questions for those in the know:

- There are kits for ~$200ish, and other members have said they got them for ~$80, Id prefer to get the right one, but $200 is a bit expensive right this very minute (rego week).

- Where Can I get them?

- Self Install Job (I can change struts etc, so Im not imcompetent)? Anything to be wary of? How Hard? etc.

- How much to get it done correctly?

- Brands/Part Numbers etc?

- Experiences?

And anything else you may think is worthwhile toward the topic.

I have attached a scan of the Printout here:

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6273/alignmentez8.jpg

that whole wheel alignment and all they did is adjust the toe 1/4 of a turn :nuts:

i have more neg camber and my tyres last ages :confused:

there is 2 types of rear camber kit, i belive it's been covered here lots? not sure

anyway nope dont do it yourself, get them to fit it when you get the alignment wouldnt that be easier?

i can get permanent camber adjustment on the front for $80, but it can only be done once and it's stronger than the skinny cam bolts they use

-1.5 degree of camber is bugger all!!

I had -3.5 degrees on the rear on my VT commodore and thats a RWD!! Are you pulling alot of handbrake turns or something??

camber isn't the only cause of scrubbing out your tyres. toe also makes a difference. i'd say that you need some toe-in added. your toe out is higher than what they have for recommended plus you have the extra camber, which is putting more stress on the inside edge of the tyre. but i am guessing that magnas don't have adjustable toe settings for the rear as they didn't change yours even to the recommended setting. if they do then go somewhere else and ask them to match your toe to your camber.

camber isn't the only cause of scrubbing out your tyres. toe also makes a difference. i'd say that you need some toe-in added. your toe out is higher than what they have for recommended plus you have the extra camber, which is putting more stress on the inside edge of the tyre. but i am guessing that magnas don't have adjustable toe settings for the rear as they didn't change yours even to the recommended setting. if they do then go somewhere else and ask them to match your toe to your camber.

the rear toe can be adjusted on magnas without any additional parts!

you need to find an alignment place that know what they are doing not a 16yo kid who follows what the computer says, cos the specs on the computer dont fit most cars anyway.....

for example no computer has awd specs on it, an awd even though it has the same suspension has a different drive line (rwd's need more toe in at the front, fwd's need more toe out at the front than rwd's and awd's should be somewhere in the middle)
yet no one thinks about that

i found a rally place that would do an old fashioned alignment for good $$ well unser $200 and he said he'd set up the car perfectly (place was full of evo's and wrx's race spec) mu problem is my car is too low! and cant get a traditional alignment, the lazers cant see each other!! damn it! believe it or not a few places have reccommended a pedders franchise (only one of them though) to take it to as that certain place knows their stuff

The combination of rear wheel negative camber and Toe Out is why the inside edges of the rear tyres are scrubbing out.

Camber is hard, you would need an adjustment kit, really just longer high tensile bolts and some hardened washers to push the inner pivot end of the top suspension arm out at the top.
As the standard car has a little negative camber you have increased it by about 1° by lowering the rear. I would suggest that you try to adjust it back to around -0.75° to 1°
Whiteline do a kit, Part Number is KCA0357, cost is $110.
The alternative is an adjustable kit from K-mac Part#521216.
They are on 02 9556 1799

Toe is dead easy.
Look under the car from the back.
At the inner end of each of the lower transverse arms is a big mounting bolt through the rear crossmember. Around the bolt is a shaped retainer.
Toe can be adjusted by slackening the retaining nut and rotating the adjuster the correct way.
A little bit of rear toe out will help the car turn into a corner better.
Reading the figures, you really did not have an alignment, they just checked for you. They certainly DID NOT do anything to help your tyre wear problem.
As you have bigger wider tyres I would advise that you get the rear toe out reduced.

Leave some toe-out but go close to zero. Especially if you are running high pressures is low profile tyres. Don't forget that the standard setting is for 65 series tyres on 15" rims. You may have problems in dialling back the rear negative camber with 19" and wider rims.

If you find that the car wants to pull to one side then you will need to look at the individual toe figures and most likely reverse them..
Example. LHS too much rear toe in will steer the front of the car to the left.
LHS too much toe out will tend to steer the car to the right.

Try putting your elbows on the table.
Simulate negative camber by having your hands closer than your elbows.
Then imagine the effect of having lots of toe out. This is why the inner edge of each tyre is being worn out.

You hit the nail on the head man.

The car pulls to the left, and its the inner of the left rear tyre that wears out fastest. Bout twice as fast as the right rear. But both of them are insanely quick to wear out.

Here is the last bit of the puzzle.

Attached is a PDF of the adjustment procedure from the official manual.

As you will see, the adjustment is really simple.

Also go and have a browse on the K-mac site. They have a guide to the effect of changing various suspension settings.

A bit of trial and error should dial out the wear and get the car running straight...

Cheers.
Gerry

Upon inspection of the car it appears that they have too much toe-in(?) on the rear. I never really noticed but the front of the rear tyres seem to be pointing in towards the center of the vehicle.

thats toe out, toe in is when the side facing the front of the car points inwards... look at my car i have massive toe in and negative camber :( although i do get good tyre wear :D
edit no your right im just on drugs and cant read!

drugs are bad, mmmmmkay

So just for clarification on a few things:

- I should adjust the tyres so they point out a teensy bit? or dead straight at the worst?

- If I get it done professionally, I should NOT take it to the same place? :)

i wouldnt go back there

and you already have toe out on the rear!

according to the above sheet anyway

yeah, you need your toe out reduced.

i'd take it to a suspension place that has been around for ages. they should have the experience to sort it out.

yeah, you need your toe out reduced.

i'd take it to a suspension place that has been around for ages. they should have the experience to sort it out.

OK thanks man.

So what exactly did I pay $60 for the other day? lol

OK thanks man.

So what exactly did I pay $60 for the other day? lol


for that piece of paper and a bolt on the steering rod to be turned 1/4 of a turn


i just adjusted the rear toe myself then ran it past the alignment place down the road, i still have too much rear toe in but it will stay where it is now, but he said it was an improvment on what i had, by A LOT!!!

thanks for the PDF spud!!

Is it ok if I have the rear camber set to zero along with proper toe alignment? I'm not after handling prowess whatsoever, just an everyday car with equal tire wear.

keep in mind too that once a tire starts to wear unevenly, it will continue to do so!

hey guys my bf is reading this thread and he's telling me that when your toe is reading positive it's called toe in.

he did wheel alignments for 5+ years for a well respected tyre/suspension place so he knows what he's on about.

hey guys my bf is reading this thread and he's telling me that when your toe is reading positive it's called toe in.

he did wheel alignments for 5+ years for a well respected tyre/suspension place so he knows what he's on about.

Thought it had too much toe-in, just looking at the rear wheels you can see that the front of the tyre is pointing inwards.

Sweet, I had a tyre place's computer in work this week, they said they would have a look at it for me, and that they actually know their stuff.

I think Ill give them a go at it, cant make it worse I suppose.

also you can get a very slight ammount of camber adjustment by undoing the bolts of the bottom of the strut legs and moving them to suit your needs.

in your case undo the left side bolts and push the to of your hub assembly in then do them up (probably be an idea to use 2 people to do this) them the same for the right side but pull the top of the hub assembly out.

as i said you won't get a lot of adjustment out of it but by doing both sides it should get both them reasonably close.

If you want to stop scrubbing tyres out on a lowered car you need to compensate your negative camber with Toe-in.

I had a corolla that was very low and would scrub tyres out every 10,000k's.
Though it handled like a go-cart, it was costing a fortune to run....

Toe out at the rear makes the car turn in quicker ... lot's of fun if you don't mind changing tyres all the time.

take it to a suspension place that has a clue....someone that does mods all the time and they'll sort it out....

Steve

Update:

Car is now at Bob Jane around the corner, I made them promise me that they had a clue as to how to align a tyre :)

10 minutes later I get a call, I also require 4 hub locator rings (already knew that, but shows they have a clue) and some special kind of balancing.

Now I know some of it may be BS or overpriced or whatever, but for the $132 all up he quoted me its still way cheaper than 2x ~$200 tyres every couple of months.

Car will be ready this afternoon, hopefully alot nicer to drive.

Make sure that you get the before and after printout of the alignment.

Then find a perfectly level bit of road, you'll probably have to drive along whilst straddling the centre white line. Then see if the car pulls to one side.

I wouldn't worry too much if it pulled slightly to the right, because this will compensate for the normal road camber to the left.

Hope that this work finally fixes your wear problem.

just don't worry about it
should be right

just don't worry about it
should be right

Well it cant be much worse I guess, very painful to drive.

10 minutes later I get a call, I also require 4 hub locator rings (already knew that, but shows they have a clue) and some special kind of balancing.

Heheh, something similar what I do - I let trade ppl et al believe 'I knoww nuffin" and see if they pick up on obvious things (like u did). If not - I get less than pleasant. (what a bthc am I!) :D

Keep us posted. My rear toe and camber are almost 0 (wanted it that way). But when got my new tyres just weeks ago, noticed the inside quarters heat up significanlty more than center or outer edge.
That would mean the alignment is not 0... !!! Hmmmm.....:doubt:

Well it cant be much worse I guess, very painful to drive.
how does it react to pot holes and small humps?

Well the results are in:

*drumroll*

And the winner is..............UNDECIDED.

They rang and said they couldnt identify or solve the problem, but the balance was done and the hub rings were installed.

So off I trot to pick the car up, when I get there he looks at the printout and says this and that blah blah blah usual crap, Then I ask about the hub rings and he says "Im not sure"

To cut a long story short I had to stand there for 45 minutes while they finished the car they were doing, put my car on the hoist, took the tyres off and then had to go find some hub rings to suit.

I ended up sitting in the gutter because I cant stand/walk basically anywhere because of my spinal condition which just makes me more cranky because Im in severe pain AND being forced to wait for something that was supposedly "ready"

Conveniently they had already invoiced me the hub rings so if I hadnt asked I would have just paid for nothing.

So as politely as possible I pay and thank them for their "service", I jump in my car and go to drive it back to work and lo and behold the car is better, albeit not 100% better, but id say 90% better at least.

Heheh, something similar what I do - I let trade ppl et al believe 'I knoww nuffin" and see if they pick up on obvious things (like u did). If not - I get less than pleasant. (what a bthc am I!) :D



LOL I'm like that..... after disconnecting my battery to do some cleaning up after a battery spewed up, the auto behaved very poorly... decided to take it to mitso to flash the tranny computer.... guy at mitso.. (Whom I may add, services my evo too) say's without missing a beat that I might need a new transmission!! I look at him... and wait for him to start laughing.... he didn't.....

I said in a rather even tone....."sir.... so you're telling me that if I disconnect the battery, the tranny will crap itself......???" He said it's possible.....we might have to take hydraulic pressure readings off the transmission and send them away to adelaide to get looked at....?? WTF!!??...... WTF????!!!!!!!!:gtfo:

Then I just look at him and say... "Dude.... I'm not the kind of person you think I am... I'm also a mechanical engineer, in the aircraft game... I simply come to you guys cos' I'm sick to death of working on cars... I'm not some teenage girl that daddy gave a car to, that knows nothing, i know for a fact you guys can reprogram the shifting points on this car so please... cut the crap.... "

Really put me off..... Don't get mad..... get evil....:badgrin:

Wheel alignments are a game... I go to my local JAX at merrylands.... they do the best alignments I've had so far..... still never absolutely perfect... but good enough for me and the driving I do.....

Steve