Trying something totally different here. Rather than use great long pieces of ugly piping for CAI, I'm going the tried and true late 60's US musclecar route of ram air from the top of the bonnet. Stage 1 was cutting the bonnet and fitting the scoops. Stage 2 is fabricating box to enclose pod from the bottom and all sides, and seal to LH bonnet scoop. Watch this space...

(And before anybody points it out, yes it needs a body kit. I have a Ground Effect kit, painted and curing in the garage. Not putting it on till I get 18's tho :cool: )

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/8516/img1777nd7.th.jpg (http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1777nd7.jpg)

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/5889/img1779au5.th.jpg (http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1779au5.jpg)

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/3540/img1781wu7.th.jpg (http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1781wu7.jpg)

http://img464.imageshack.us/img464/4650/img1782ws4.th.jpg (http://img464.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1782ws4.jpg)

Isn't the third gen airbox designed to prevent the effects of ram air?

Good luck with it, not a fan of scoops though lol

actually it looks like a good idea, atleast you get nice kool air. i keep tempting to do this, but i dont wanna cut my bonnet lol anyways good luck mate, keep us posted.

Mike

Very interested in the progress of this.
How do you plan to keep water out of the box? My thoughts were a small drain hole or would that decrease the +air pressure concept for Ram Air?

The old tube from the front then going UP to the airbox is safe from rain water as the tube goes up and water doesn't like that. A tube from a bonnet scoop DOWN to an airbox or the scoop going straight into a sealed box may have a water problem. :confused:

Any thoughts guys - ways to help him?

seems like a good idea, however you have cut thru the reo which cuts down the integrity of the bonnet, probably making it illegal, or even more dangerous in a crash...not hoping that one on you tho.

seems like a good idea, however you have cut thru the reo which cuts down the integrity of the bonnet, probably making it illegal, or even more dangerous in a crash...not hoping that one on you tho.

If he were to have a crash that would bend the bonnet that far up, i doubt cutting out such a tiny amount of metal would do anything.

btw - i reckon that is FANTASTIC work man. looks friggen awesome man. Good to see some fresh ideas coming out!

Dont think the bonnet does for much in an accident, they usually jsut fold in half, so i wouldnt reckon it would be a big issue. someone here recently wanted to do the samething, although a few people recommneded against it because of the rain/water getting on the filter. I would have to say the same that you would have to find a solution for this, as you really do not want your filter getting wet. If you do though, looks alright, its more of a vent than a scoop which makes it look better, and should reap some power gains, an probably a better/louder engine note too.

Ollie

You're not going to get a lot of positive pressure there but it will make for a nice intake. Should sound good too.

i think to counter the water going in, have the slot coming from the scopp go into a Y, that way the water will go down, and hopefully out and then air will still be sucked in? do you get what i am saying ?? lol, kinda like a U trap with an intersection to bypass, so the less dense air goes through the bypass, and the heavier watter goes down, just my thought. and there wont be any air from the engine coming in because the natural airflow is from outside.

Hope That Helps

Shibbs

I think that you have to do some thing about the water. Water and fuel dont mix well.
If it was me i would look in to the way the evo's fix that prob and all othere cars with
that same setup.:)

by the way love the headers are they HPC'ed and what is the white thing (hole)
on / in the headers?

i don't no if any1 else noticed this but when ur driving the water is gonna work its way towards the back of the car and the vent is position so that the hole is behind the filter therefore the water should just hit the back of the air box he is fabricating and pool at the bottom which should he have a drain in it for this if he adds to this a uneven floor to the air box all the water should drain out

for referencing see the first pic and 3rd pic

though if you did want to add protection from splash back you could fabricate some type of shield up but then again this would inhibit air flow a bit

Dont worry too much about the "ram air", you'll never be able to build +ve pressure with that style vent. Just be happy that you are going to be sucking in nice cold air from outside the engine bay - and still having a nice short intake path.

I have plans of installing similar bonnet vents on my car at some stage, but they will be more for general cooling of the engine bay, than an air intake system. My approach to the "water" problem will be to not drive in the rain, and to carry a throw on car cover in the event that the car gets caught outside on a rainy day, but that's not really an option when it's a daily driver.

having the vents there will actually be better than a CAI feeding from the front bar. the reason being that the front bar is closer to the road, so while you are getting a nice airflow the air will be warm due to heat radiating off the road. being up higher will get colder air. the temperature difference isn't that much, but every little bit counts.

the only down side to most ram type CAIs is that if you don't have the design right then you end up creating turbulence which can slow down the airflow into the motor, or create turbulence through the AFM which may affect your fueling either leaning it out or richening it up, which can cause a loss of power.

nice work though

thats pretty nice but just a quick question.. the bonnet vents look like they are abit too far up like in your first pic you can see the pod sits closer to the front of the scoop or is it sitting right behind the hole???

thats pretty nice but just a quick question.. the bonnet vents look like they are abit too far up like in your first pic you can see the pod sits closer to the front of the scoop or is it sitting right behind the hole???

From the photos, i'm amazed how well you did the cut, great work. Agree with Ash though, the positioning is a little too far behind the POD. Of-course more inform would be nice on how you're planning on piping this to the air box for the POD (if you have one), if you duct it into the air box, then positioning wouldn't matter, but water will a problem, what have you got in mind to take care of rain or even Car wash?

I think it looks nice, keep up the good work.

Wow. More interest than I thought. So some answers to questions.

I positioned the ducts based on
1/ where they were positioned on the TMR380
2/ looks. I made up some dummy templates and positioned the scoops lower down the bonnet and they just looked crap
3/ (the biggie) positioning of pressed bonnet 'flutes'. You can't position the scoops over the flutes. So you have to go either side of the flute. High up where I have put the scoops is about the best you can do. Further towards the front of the car means going to the outside of the flutes - and then you end up so low down that the scoop is right over the battery where it looks really stupid and where you have cut a major bonnet brace (very bad).

Cutting the bonnet braces. I've actually done this 4 times now (central ram air box in 84 on my Group Three, VC Commodore Turbo vents on a VK Brock Director, XA GT scoops on a Calais Turbo). And now XA GT scoops on the Magna. The key when you do it is NOT to cut the main braces, just the thin ones which run between the main braces. The other big tip is to use Sikaflex urethane to reattach the cut thin braces back to the underside of the bonnet. Do all that and there is little effect on crashabilty of the bonnet. In each case I have had my isnurance company check the work and they haven't batted an eyelid.

Water entry. When I used the same scoops on the Calais Turbo I found that even at an indicated 240kmh (don't ask where or when :badgrin: , but I was 20 years younger) in the rain, bugger all water made it into the airbox. And the problem is solved by one tiny 2mm hole in the bottom of the box. For car washing (by hand always, BTW), the scoop covers the pod, so no water dumps directly on the pod and any that goes into the box that will fit around it drains out of the tiny hole in the bottom.

Actual ram air effect. A chocky frog to whichever one of you picked up that the ram effect would be minimal. You are right lol What I am looking for is the shortest possible path to get non-underbonnet air to the pod. My son is an aerodynamicist with Red Bull F1 and he laughed when I called it ram air. On RBR3 (this years car) he said that at 300kmh and 19,000 rpm the ram effect is worth 50hp. So on a Magna at 110kmh?? Oughta be worth at least 0.5 of an HP :bowrofl:

wow 50hp @ 300km/h

tell them to look at std Suzuki's and other jap bikes they are getting 30hp at 250km/h from ram air and thats on a 180hp engine.... bikes rule :badgrin:

A++ on the mods, good to see something different for once that dosent include a skyline bumper!


no you will have to cover up the hole and do a 0-Vmax run the uncover the hole and do it again and see if there is any difference, maybe on someones long driveway (plenty of members have a 4lane dead straight 10km long driveway lol)

that looks pretty good Schnell.

I may have to pay you a visit. totally unrelated to incoming air, but I need some bonnet vents on my TJ. two reasons for this...

1) the Sprintex gets hot, VERY hot at the track. as in, don't touch it for more than a second or you will lose skin.

2) the kit is actually rubbing on the underside of the bonnet (don't know if anyone else's blower does this). I'll have to take off the padding to confirm exactly where.

so I want a bonnet vent right above the right hand edge of the blower (and probably one to match on the other side).

cheers,
.wook

that looks pretty good Schnell.

I may have to pay you a visit. totally unrelated to incoming air, but I need some bonnet vents on my TJ. two reasons for this...

1) the Sprintex gets hot, VERY hot at the track. as in, don't touch it for more than a second or you will lose skin.

2) the kit is actually rubbing on the underside of the bonnet (don't know if anyone else's blower does this). I'll have to take off the padding to confirm exactly where.

so I want a bonnet vent right above the right hand edge of the blower (and probably one to match on the other side).

cheers,
.wook

nope never rubbed!!!

carry tin foil ans spray olive oil, and you have yourseld a portable BBQ.... beat that Vtec!!!! lol

the yellow vrx had bonnet vents!

i looked into it and after extensive testing with a digi thermometer decided not to bother as it only gets hotter than normal when at idle and when off, when driving above 40km/h it gets plenty of aurflow under the bonnet and the temps are not anyhigher than normal under bonnet temps....

but after a run when the heatsoak sets in the car will be hot for hours!! my valinat would cool down the block instantly :confused: maybe cos there was much more real estate under the lid there, the magna engine bay is like fitting snapper in a sardine can..

i know this may sound like a pain but my mate did a similar thing to his commodore. He just made some heavy duty rubber "plugs" for the vents (almost same design as yours, front facing vents just a different shape) and whenever it rained or looked like raining he would put the plugs in. They were easy to put in and i think he made a mould for them and did them himself. Sort of similar to a rubber piggybank plug kind of thing. I know this obviously makes your intake useless but when it's raining do you really need the cool air/extra power you may get from it? For starters you're not going to be driving the 100% that you usually would (least you shouldn't be) and the rain will be cooling down your bonnet anyways reducing the temperate of your engine bay and therefore the air intake you get. I know if you build a sealed box around your filter then it won't be getting any air at all but his wasn't a sealed box. (he asked around and there was no way of creating any real pressure in there so he just left it unsealed as it worked just as well...and of course solved the problem of the vents being covered sometimes)

just my 2c

~twiggy~

Seems like a logical place to post these pics...
Schnell, that's why I was interested in your scoop/CAI/Pod Box progress & Water resolution ideas. ;)

My scoop is like yours, the scoop lip sits on top of the bonnet. I would've loved it to be flush with the bonnet (like the Lancer EVO's) but that wasn't to be (unless I get it done again by someone else) :doubt:

Oh, and the hole was cut before the RWC & VIV with NO bonnet braces cut.

that looks pretty good Schnell.

I may have to pay you a visit. totally unrelated to incoming air, but I need some bonnet vents on my TJ. two reasons for this...

1) the Sprintex gets hot, VERY hot at the track. as in, don't touch it for more than a second or you will lose skin.

2) the kit is actually rubbing on the underside of the bonnet (don't know if anyone else's blower does this). I'll have to take off the padding to confirm exactly where.

so I want a bonnet vent right above the right hand edge of the blower (and probably one to match on the other side).

cheers,
.wook

Hey Wook - and anybody else interested - I was down at Auto 1 at lunchtime and spotted an XA GT repro scoop on the Rare Spares stand. When I bought my scoops off ebay 6 months ago Rares weren't doing XA stuff. But it seems they finally moved on from the XY stage. Anyways, these things are freely available for $130each. Good pairs of originals on ebay go for upwards of $300/pair. The repros aren't quite as well finished off as the originals, but that doesn't matter as you have to strip them back for colour coding anyway.

Seems like a logical place to post these pics...
Schnell, that's why I was interested in your scoop/CAI/Pod Box progress & Water resolution ideas. ;)

My scoop is like yours, the scoop lip sits on top of the bonnet. I would've loved it to be flush with the bonnet (like the Lancer EVO's) but that wasn't to be (unless I get it done again by someone else) :doubt:

Oh, and the hole was cut before the RWC & VIV with NO bonnet braces cut.

Nice. A TJ bonnet would so much easier to work on too - no bonnet flutes to get in the way of placing the scoop exactly where you want it :) And using the smaller duct is certainly a bonus in terms of not having to cut braces.

So is your setup boxed and sealed to the underside of the bonnet??

i know this may sound like a pain but my mate did a similar thing to his commodore. He just made some heavy duty rubber "plugs" for the vents... ...I know if you build a sealed box around your filter then it won't be getting any air at all but his wasn't a sealed box... ...and of course solved the problem of the vents being covered sometimes) Rubber plugs could be an idea. Another solution would be to have another CAI tube coming up from the front - so you can have air from the front & bonnet both going into the pod box. That way, if you seal up the bonnet scoop, air still gets in from the front.

...So is your setup boxed and sealed to the underside of the bonnet??Not yet :doubt:

if you are so worried about water , cant you just get one of those oil covered 'socks' to put over the pod? i think k&n make them.

or did everybody decide that they were crap when i wasnt looking:confused:

pfft let the water in


free water injection, a few drops of water never killed any engines, a lot of water has though lol

if you are so worried about water , cant you just get one of those oil covered 'socks' to put over the pod? i think k&n make them.

or did everybody decide that they were crap when i wasnt looking:confused:
Or a drycharger...

i think what u've done is defectable..i dont think ure allowed to cut away the "cross supports" but it might be different in each state

Interesting little project, I know bonnet vents do appeal to some people.

Don't expect any tangible gains however. I've done some research into "ram air" intakes, the whole thing is really a crock, you simply won't build any worthwhile positive air pressure.

I reckon they look great. Interested to see the under-bonnet set up when stage 2 is done. You might not get any ram-air effect but it'll be at least as good as any "flexipipe CAI", and looks sweet at the same time.

I reckon they look great. Interested to see the under-bonnet set up when stage 2 is done. You might not get any ram-air effect but it'll be at least as good as any "flexipipe CAI", and looks sweet at the same time.

Thanks mate. Exactly what I was thinking.


i think what u've done is defectable..i dont think ure allowed to cut away the "cross supports" but it might be different in each state

Bzzt. No problem here in ACT. I also doubt you will find anything specified in any other States either (but hey, correct me if I'm wrong).


Interesting little project, I know bonnet vents do appeal to some people.

Don't expect any tangible gains however. I've done some research into "ram air" intakes, the whole thing is really a crock, you simply won't build any worthwhile positive air pressure.

I'm aware of that. See my earlier response and the advice from my son. In the end, if I get the same gains as a more traditional but ugly CAI then I really don't care....

Hey Wook - and anybody else interested - I was down at Auto 1 at lunchtime and spotted an XA GT repro scoop on the Rare Spares stand. When I bought my scoops off ebay 6 months ago Rares weren't doing XA stuff. But it seems they finally moved on from the XY stage. Anyways, these things are freely available for $130each. Good pairs of originals on ebay go for upwards of $300/pair. The repros aren't quite as well finished off as the originals, but that doesn't matter as you have to strip them back for colour coding anyway.

Are they the 2 nostrals?
Similar to this?
If so....wow.....i might have another project!

']Are they the 2 nostrals?
Similar to this?
If so....wow.....i might have another project!

I cant believe people go through all of this effort to make a car individual, show it off to the world, and then take a picture of it only to see that the number plate is on a slant. sheesh.

']Are they the 2 nostrals?
Similar to this?
If so....wow.....i might have another project!
I don't care what anybody says... Those scoops do NOT suit that car.

The lines are all wrong... Too square for a round bubble of a car like a TR/TS.

']Are they the 2 nostrals?
Similar to this?
If so....wow.....i might have another project!
If you hack you bonnet up i'll...... nah I won't do anything, in fact, give me a call when you are gonna do it, I want to be there when you stuff it up :bowrofl:

Also the number plate is crooked in the photo lol

I don't care what anybody says... Those scoops do NOT suit that car.

The lines are all wrong... Too square for a round bubble of a car like a TR/TS.

Yeah, those are off an XB GT and require an extensive and expensive rewok of the Magna bonnet, or a reskin with an XB skin. I'm not that brave...

Wasn't that orange car the guy who was gonna start a fully hektic workshop with no capital and like 3 employees and make the worlds sickest v8 rwd 2nd gen?