Would it be worth it getting 3 way component speakers for a 2nd gen if the 4inch mid-range would sit on the dash?

I've been reading these forums for about a year, and I have read that due that speaker poistion reflecting off the windscreen, it's not the best place for a speaker/tweeter. I originally was just going to get 6.5" 2 way components, but since I think I busted the 4"'s that are already there, the thought of filling the gap there came to mind. My mum's Vectra has a a setup like that, but all the speakers are in the doors.

Whats your budget?

Our 2nd gen wagon has 3 way splits in the front.

6 or 6.5in in the doors.
4in in the doors.
1in tweeters in the dash posy.

Sounds fine to me.
I have also read one article where they tried the tweeters in lots of positions and found the dash, reflected of the windscreen was a great place for them.
I guess it's each to their own and the persons ability (or in many including me) inability to tell the difference anyway. lol

I'll find the post & pics soon and post up again.

Whats your budget?
Budget depends whether I get a job or not in the near future. If not, Jaycar splits it will be.
But, I'd think something mid-range would be best way I can describe my budget... unless an extra $100 makes a world of difference, then I'd probably go for that.


Our 2nd gen wagon has 3 way splits in the front.

6 or 6.5in in the doors.
4in in the doors.
1in tweeters in the dash posy.

Sounds fine to me.
I have also read one article where they tried the tweeters in lots of positions and found the dash, reflected of the windscreen was a great place for them.
I guess it's each to their own and the persons ability (or in many including me) inability to tell the difference anyway. lol

I'll find the post & pics soon and post up again.
I've got an executive wagon, so yeah, all that room and one two 4inchers. But yeah, when I first installed the new HU, I thought it made things sound awesome, but that was probably the difference between radio and CD, with no more fuzz when under a big tree and what not. But now it summers, wind the window down, and I can't hear anything, so I need to fix that. Would be nice to see the pics. Is that how it came, or was it a custom install?

The key for any system to sound good is in the install, rather than the actual drivers themselves. With the mids up on the dash you will have a few issues. First is reflections off the windscreen which will play with your frequency response. Secondly, what type of midrange are we looking at using. A cone, or a dome. Most cones actually need some form of enclosure to work correctly, whereas domes are allready sealed, however, they tend not to be able to play that low (ie no lower than about 800hz).

Third problem is the major seperation of all drivers. For example, if you have your midbass in the doors, midrange on the dash and tweeters in the Sails, your going to get massive image drift, and very poor imaging.

To explain image drift, lets use an example of a Soprano. As she rises up in her range, the image will drift from the midbass speakers, up towards the midrange speakers. So, she will sound like shes singing from the floor, and then all of a sudden rise to the front of the car, and then back down again. To make matters worse, depending on your crossover points, she voice may rise to the midrange, then come back towards you, where the tweeters are positioned, and then back down to the floor. So, basically, there s no imaging to speak of. This will happen with lots of music, I jst used the example of Opera as its easier to listen for, and picture mentally.

This will also happen with sounds that go from midrange to tweeter and back. Now, alot of people say they dont mind where the voice is coming from, just aslong as it sounds good. But, beleive me, there is nothing worse than a voice coming from beside you, to infront of you, and then closer to you. In extreme cases, it sounds quite bad unfortunality.



Imo a proper set up 2way system is always better than a poorer set up 3way. Spend the money you were spending in the midrange, and buy a better two way set. I would bet almost anything that it should sound better.

...Would be nice to see the pics...Our Wagon's front stage...
Specs: Hertz - 3 Way Splits - HSK163 - 150w RMS
1” tweeters are under the stock dash speaker grilles.
(No pic for this, everyone has the dash grilles and you can’t see the tweeters.)
Hertz 4” mids and 6.5” woofers in front doors.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q65/DoddsFamily/Graeme/Car%20Clubs/FrontDoor6.jpg


...Is that how it came, or was it a custom install?Door pockets are from a SE/Verada (just remember to remove the plastic bit behind the grill if you use these for aftermarket speakers.)
The pro guys installed the 4" speakers.

Read what ar3nbe said. I just did and it is very true the points he made.

3ways are a lot more effort but can be bliss if done correctly... *eyes off Hertz Mille with ribbon mid :cry: *

@ ar3nbe:
That's a pretty good point you make about the seperation, and I can think of music I'd listen to where they could play with the sound range like that.... From what I've seen interms of 3 way components midrange was a 4 inch cone.

What would you consider to be a proper 2 way install? So far I've been thinking the obvious, woofer in door angled to me as much as practical, and tweeters in the little triangular bit where the side mirrors are where you'd expect a lever to adjust the mirrors if you didn't have power mirrors.

@ GRDPuck:
Ohhhhh, I've seen that pic before, I was looking at the door today, and that seems to be only way to get 2 speakers in the doors without fibreglass something that looks like a whole new door. For the Verada/SE door pod, you'd have to cut the plastic door card thing to make the back of the speaker fit yeah? Or is that what you mean by behind the grill... And do you know if the 6.5's went in easy, or was it a war of man vs. plastic?

Because the door pods are kinda hard to find, as a plan b, I found this write up on some forum through google http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=73733 , and thought I'd get another pair of the exec pockets, for a semi-stock look, if I can achieve that, cut them up, and to knock up something like that, I'd just have look into some DIY fibreglass gizmos.

@ Mr ©harisma:
Yeah, I can understand what he means, might have to leave the 3 ways for another car, I'll probably start inspecting mates car doors for 3 way potential, lol giggity!

Not sure how easy the install was - got the Pro's to so it while I was at work.

The first set of 6.5" speakers were placed behind the Verada door pocket grills by one place.
The second set (current set) of 6.5" speakers were fitted by a different shop and they showed me the plastic part behind the grill that they removed (simple to remove - just screws I think). Also showed me how the plastic 'grid' bit had been squashing the rubber on my first set of speakers :shock: - dodgey install. :doubt:
From what I know - using the Verada pods is an easy fit job - but I could be wrong.

Pfft 4 way active front stage ftw :)

Im running 10 drivers up front and 2 subs in the back and it sounds good, but front stage is all point sourced and i've had to forego some other luxuries, (glove box etc). Best bet unless you have the time and money to set up a 3way correctly is a quality 2 way setup.

Pfft 4 way active front stage ftw :)

Im running 10 drivers up front and 2 subs in the back and it sounds good, but front stage is all point sourced and i've had to forego some other luxuries, (glove box etc). Best bet unless you have the time and money to set up a 3way correctly is a quality 2 way setup.

I was waiting for it....

What do I consider a proper 2way install?

Well, it depends, are we after a one seat tune, or a two seat tune. IE, do we want the image to be sharp and focused for both the driver and passanger, or just the driver.

For a one seat tune the basis behind a good setup is quite easy. Both tweeters mounted equally onaxis for the driver (doesnt mean both on axis, but both must be the same angles, ie both 15degress, or both 30 etc. I prefer both pretty much on axis, reveals extra detail). Mids with an angle towards the driver as much as possible. Crossover point pretty much as high as the mid will play.

A quality 2way install can be costly. You find a nice tweeter with the ability to play low and remain distortion free, and/or a mid that can play high enough into the midrange to support a high crossover point.