I'am going to be geting some new cams for my TL VR-X
and i can't live and work without my car so geting them reground
is out. I was looking at the stage 1 cams from RPW and it said that the
camshaft is designed to improve everything a little bit with no major
gain in any one area?
Is that the same as the ralliart ones from mitsubishi? I saw that there
was only a bit difference in the specs?:confused:
or is there a lot of difference and i can't tell?
But RPW's stage 2 camshaft is designed to improve more mid range
and top end power, with a slight loss of low rpm torque but i'am not that
happy about loosing that low end torque and is there a lot of power difference.
I was given a price that ralliart cams are $360 for a pair but
the RPW cams are $1000 a pair.
Is it worth the extra coin? because if its like 3-5kw's it ant worth it to me.
Dose someone have some iders for me or some feed back
because it would be helpful.:)

Your profile says your car is a manual....... so why are you so worried about "low down torque". If you want to drive fast, at worst you're only low in the rev range for a few seconds tops while you launch in 1st, rest of the time you should be up in the 4K+ rev range. It'd be a different story if you had one of those lazy autos.

Ralliart and RPW stage 1 cams can be fitted without the need to retune the car. If you go to stage 2 cams, it is recommended that you also upgrade your valve springs at the same time and the car will need to be retuned (piggyback ECU at minimum) and it's probably recommended you fit adjustable cam gears.

If you go with just a straight cam swap, expect to be without your car for 2-3 days. If you go with stage 2 or higher expect to be without your car for upto a week*.

* These times are slightly exaggerated, but if you go by them, you won't be disappointed if it's finished sooner.

If you go with just a straight cam swap, expect to be without your car for 2-3 days. If you go with stage 2 or higher expect to be without your car for upto a week*.



Depends if the heads need to come off :)

e.g stage 1 with factory valvesprings the heads don't need to come off, apparently it's about 2.5 hrs labour to swap the cams.

But knowing your luck Mike, it would be 2-3 months :bowrofl:

just for those of you interested.. any ralliart misti dealer can get them in.. but you need a Ralliart magna VIN for them to look up the part number.. i got a normal retail price of $257 incl GST each.. being that i will be replacing my rocker cover gaskets soon.. it would be silly not to continue with the camshafts all at once as half the work will be done at the same time..

Matty

Depends if the heads need to come off :)

e.g stage 1 with factory valvesprings the heads don't need to come off, apparently it's about 2.5 hrs labour to swap the cams.

But knowing your luck Mike, it would be 2-3 months :bowrofl:
And in the meantime the diff would break and they would install the gearbox in the throttle body. :bowrofl:

And in the meantime the diff would break and they would install the gearbox in the throttle body. :bowrofl:

lol i dont mean to laugh Mike but your run has not been the best latley eh......and someone elses is tradgedy is anothers comedy.... no hard feelings eh

o.p. I think you would get a good gain from the stage one cams but get the cam gears as well. The cams are more aggressive than the rallairt but still dont need the springs. I have had mine in now over 30000km and had no problems. For the money you would get a good gain. Having a manual you can dial them in around 6 degrees retarded and get just as much power at the wheels as a ralliart but with out the compression. You wont lose low down much..not that it matters much with a manual, but even with my auto and 2 degrees retarded i got around 10h.patw. You would get plenty more in a manual....**** you probably have more to start with than i have now.

Thank to all of ya for that info i think that i will save my ass of and get the stage 2
cams, valve springs, cam gears and ECU. It shouldn't go to bad then. :dancin:
I'am doing what you said to magtone about the 2.5" exhaust but still
going for headers, should i still go for a 2.5" Metal high flow cat?

Definately. You could probably even push it to 3", to future proof her a bit.

Thank to all of ya for that info i think that i will save my ass of and get the stage 2
cams, valve springs, cam gears and ECU. It shouldn't go to bad then. :dancin:
I'am doing what you said to magtone about the 2.5" exhaust but still
going for headers, should i still go for a 2.5" Metal high flow cat?

According to RPW, the stage 2 cams don't work well with stock 9:1 compression, they say you lose extra bottom-end with a minimal gain in top of end. Has anyone actually chucked stage2-spec cams in though?

Your profile says your car is a manual....... so why are you so worried about "low down torque". If you want to drive fast, at worst you're only low in the rev range for a few seconds tops while you launch in 1st, rest of the time you should be up in the 4K+ rev range. It'd be a different story if you had one of those lazy autos.

Ralliart and RPW stage 1 cams can be fitted without the need to retune the car. If you go to stage 2 cams, it is recommended that you also upgrade your valve springs at the same time and the car will need to be retuned (piggyback ECU at minimum) and it's probably recommended you fit adjustable cam gears.

I was thinking about it till i got this from Black Beard about my car being a mamual.
I would love to talk to a AMC member that has stage 2 cams but is there one?

Hmmm.... I wonder how Stage 2 cams would go in a 380?

Having masses of torque low down we can afford to lose some, even as autos, and the compression is 10:1....
A few of us are contemplating interceptors since anything more than mildly modifying the exhaust seems to result in the ECU defaulting immediately to 10:1 AFR.

So that ticks a lot of boxes...

Not sure about whether 380 springs would need replacing - since it runs Ralliart cams as standard.

I was thinking about it till i got this from Black Beard about my car being a mamual.
I would love to talk to a AMC member that has stage 2 cams but is there one?

Hmmmmm..... good question. I know there are a couple of members who had have had custom cams built (Ego, Cthuthu and Jasons VRX), to accompany other major engine work.

If I'm not mistaken, the only member of these forums that I know purchased Stage 2 or higher Cams from RPW was Booya, when he built his NA motor all those years ago. It was claimed at the time that there were issues with the cams (unable to make power out of them), and not long after that Booya famously went on to build his 300+kW single turbo 3.0L motor.

I just go of the phone with RPW about the stage 1 and 2 cams
that i was looking at, they said that stage 1 would be the best for
my TL VR-X but if i was geting it supercharged then stage 2
is beter. They also said that i dont need to do the valve springs.:doubt:
That sounds funny to me because they are more harsh then the ralliart
cams and mitsubishi put stornger valve springs in with them?:doubt:

i think mitsubishi just did it to be safe, but ive heard of ppl running stage ones with no further mods. they are a bit pricy, lookin at about $1000, from the ralli art cams which were about $350 or so.

i think mitsubishi just did it to be safe, but ive heard of ppl running stage ones with no further mods. they are a bit pricy, lookin at about $1000, from the ralli art cams which were about $350 or so.

The valve springs in the ralliart were designed for a race enviroment, and were nitrided to help with heat, and riding on redline for long periods of time...

The valve springs in the ralliart were designed for a race enviroment, and were nitrided to help with heat, and riding on redline for long periods of time...

If I end up going stage1 or similar cams (will probably do a build with something bigger), I wonder if keeping the factory valvesprings would be safe, given that I track the car every month or 2 (in the cooler months at least).

For around $250 for a set of uprated valve springs there is no real excuse not to get them. It's cheap insurance if you ask me.:P

If I end up going stage1 or similar cams (will probably do a build with something bigger), I wonder if keeping the factory valvesprings would be safe, given that I track the car every month or 2 (in the cooler months at least).

Hard to say.....I would upgrade them if I was racing my car, especially after putting so much hard earned into like you have to have everything set up like you do. Having said that, I have not upgraded with my stage ones, but my missus uses it as a daily driver and I might drive it on weekends...cept when Im pissed;) and after 30000kms i have not had a problem

For around $250 for a set of uprated valve springs there is no real excuse not to get them. It's cheap insurance if you ask me.:P

In some cases, it can also improve power..... not so sure about in NA engines, but I know of a few XR6T guys who were pleasantly surprised when they got nice power gains from upgrading the valve springs. I think it's probably more likely to happen on boosted engines.

In some cases, it can also improve power..... not so sure about in NA engines, but I know of a few XR6T guys who were pleasantly surprised when they got nice power gains from upgrading the valve springs. I think it's probably more likely to happen on boosted engines.

Would that be more a case of tuners upping the boost, as they're more confident with the firmer valve springs?

I read somewhere that the stock ones in an XR6T have their limits, and they're usually one of the first things to be upgraded.

Would that be more a case of tuners upping the boost, as they're more confident with the firmer valve springs?

I read somewhere that the stock ones in an XR6T have their limits, and they're usually one of the first things to be upgraded.

No, these were cars that had already been tuned (capa flash), and the stock valves must have been too weak to hold the valves shut at high RPM (valve float).

No, these were cars that had already been tuned (capa flash), and the stock valves must have been too weak to hold the valves shut at high RPM (valve float).

Ah okay, yeah I guess if the springs were pretty soft to begin with they'd bounce around a fair bit, particularly under boost.

No, these were cars that had already been tuned (capa flash), and the stock valves must have been too weak to hold the valves shut at high RPM (valve float).

On my dads XR6T we replaced the valve springs because of valve float at high rpm, the stock springs (early BA) had a hard time keeping the valves closed (when needed) due to upping the boost from the factory 6psi to 13.5psi, the amount of pressure the boost increase was putting on the closed valves would actually open them "slightly" and thus cause a loss of top end power.

$300 for the stonger valve springs and presto the boost could be held neater higher up in the rev range and the rev limiter could then be lifted to 6800rpm (up from 6000) with a consequent higher power output.

hey guys not to intrude on ur post but im looking at getting a set of second hand ralliart cams for my 4 speed tippy auto es tl magna current mods i have at the moment are extractors 2 and a half inch excaust and muffler and 380 injectors now wat are ur ideas on me putting the ralliart cams in so 1 wat sort of gain or do i lose out by having the ralliart cams in and 2 wat else do i need for this mod and do i need to do the change valves springs? help needed :) thanks

valve springs stay, remember these cams are giving you SLIGHTLY more lift, not sure about duration, they are not MASSIVE cams. Very VERY tame but enough to make a difference. You should get an SKR tune to make the most of it all. Actually to make the most of it all you need a 5sp manual conversion.

thanku for ur reply but what do u mean not sure of the duration u talking bout engine or cams? i can get a after market ecu rite? or that skr tune rite? eather way

I think by "duration" Paul was referring to the Ralliart Cams..... as in they give you slightly more "lift" (opening the valves wider to allow more gas-flow) but Paul is unsure about duration (ie: he is unsure if the Ralliart Cams keep the valves open longer - further increasing gas-flow - than a standard Cam).

Search in here for threads about SKR tune of standard Magna ECU's -full name is (I think) Steve Knight Racetech - ie: SKR - at Lonsdale in southern Adelaide suburbs. My impression is that SKR can provide useful performance increases by tweaking the standard ECU (and is about the only outfit who can flash/unlock Magna ECU - due to equipment formerly at Mitsubishi plant). Lots of good comments and threads about the services and costs and so on..... well worth a Forum search!

believe the ralliart/380 cam has the standard duration, just more lift :)

believe the ralliart/380 cam has the standard duration, just more lift :)

there ya go, no need to change valve springs over alsightly more lift. only time you need to change them is when you put in a REALLY big cam

If you plan on flogging it a bit, Ralliart-380 springs would be good....depending on cost!

If you plan on flogging it a bit, Ralliart-380 springs would be good....depending on cost!


should be alright, believe that during the ralliart engine durability test, it was done with the standard valve springs. Followed by Type40's engine has the ralliart/380 cams and on standrad valve springs and that thing gets a flogging at 7000rpm :D but the track day at MMX will be the final verdict of whether it would be a worthwhile option on a mildly tweaked motor

should be alright, believe that during the ralliart engine durability test, it was done with the standard valve springs. Followed by Type40's engine has the ralliart/380 cams and on standrad valve springs and that thing gets a flogging at 7000rpm :D but the track day at MMX will be the final verdict of whether it would be a worthwhile option on a mildly tweaked motor

I can tell you now you will not need bigger springs for a ralliart cam....when you start revving to 7500RPM++ when you get coil bind is when you'll need them, stock ones are fiiiiine