I know about Brembo brakes (Puck stops to dream a bit), they are obviously great, but what other brands have people heard of / used?
Endless ?
Spoon ?

...and I wonder why Mitsubishi (and other car manufacturers) always seem to use Brembo.
Are they the best or just the most marketed?
Or maybe Endless/Spoon are specific to another car manufacturer like Nissan, etc. ???

ive got a set of PBR calipers that are pretty much aftermarket corvette calipers. They are a twin piston like a ralliart caliper but these actually work! mated with an EVO 320mm disc and you will be doing forward summer saults :cool:

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3559/allfinishedfr6.jpg

Most big car companies use Brembos because they're one of, if not the best brake caliper makers in the world.

Others to look out for;

Alcon
AP
Endless

But seriously, Brembos are pretty much the best. When the big power making EVO's upgrade their brakes, some will go with 6 piston Alcon kits, but a lot just use upgraded rotors with the stock 4 piston calipers because they're just that good.

http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/7904/evonew2jl1.jpg

Brembos are just the Best...:) All im going to say i thought they where good and i knew my car would stop good.. But now they are on and ive tested them well they are ****en amazing. Didnt ever think they would pull the car up that quick. feels like back wheels lift on braking..:) after having these will never upgrade to anything else. Very happy i did it now..:)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2122/2038219817_92195cb9c8.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2232/2039014710_06b1f3b6c2.jpg

Wilwood is another huge brand... very big in sprint car/stock car racing in the states

I must admit that I've never quite understood how having really brilliant brakes actually lets you stop so much quicker. I had always understood the limiting factor to be the effect of physics between the ground and the rubber as is opposed to between brake and disc.

Is the case with higher end brakes that you can apply much more pressure and obtain much more braking power before the brake pad complete stops the disc and thus causes a slide?
IE. Ts the threshold of a threshhold brake not actually the point at which the rubber will let go but rather the pressure at which the brake pads can no longer allow continued rotation and thus cause the rubber to let go by biting in and ceasing disc rotation?

I must admit that I've never quite understood how having really brilliant brakes actually lets you stop so much quicker. I had always understood the limiting factor to be the effect of physics between the ground and the rubber as is opposed to between brake and disc.

Is the case with higher end brakes that you can apply much more pressure and obtain much more braking power before the brake pad complete stops the disc and thus causes a slide?
IE. Ts the threshold of a threshhold brake not actually the point at which the rubber will let go but rather the pressure at which the brake pads can no longer allow continued rotation and thus cause the rubber to let go by biting in and ceasing disc rotation?
My understanding is something like this; The bigger the brake disc size, the bigger the brake pad can be, and the more pistons in the caliper means more braking force from the caliper to the disc. The bigger the disc is, the more heat that can be spread during braking, as the pads touch the discs it generates huge amounts of heat. Brakes become useless when they're too hot unless you're using extremely high heat tolerant pads, or some form of carbon ceramic brake discs. So if you can disperse heat and have a large clamping force onto a large disc it's going to increase the stopping power greatly. Then you get into things like EBD and differing levels of ABS intrusion - slotted vs cross drilled rotors etc...

I must admit that I've never quite understood how having really brilliant brakes actually lets you stop so much quicker. I had always understood the limiting factor to be the effect of physics between the ground and the rubber as is opposed to between brake and disc.

Is the case with higher end brakes that you can apply much more pressure and obtain much more braking power before the brake pad complete stops the disc and thus causes a slide?
IE. Ts the threshold of a threshhold brake not actually the point at which the rubber will let go but rather the pressure at which the brake pads can no longer allow continued rotation and thus cause the rubber to let go by biting in and ceasing disc rotation?

I am in the same boat as you, although I understand Disciples point, I still have more than enough power to lock up the wheel in my car, so I dont see how having better brakes will make it stop better because I already have more than enough braking power. I know upgraded brakes maybe the brakes will work the same with less effort, and I guess the main thing is that they dont start fading for a lot longer. Perhaps the stiffer calipers and such can allow you to control the brakes more effectively, but I would think this is minor, especially with ABS as you just nail the brakes.

So if the brakes are not way too hot, how can a car with a brembo brakes brake better than my car?

Oh an another point, I would think that upgrading brakes may throw out the brake balance, which woudl then effect the stopping distance of the car as all tyres cannot reach their theshold limit.

Ollie

Oh an another point, I would think that upgrading brakes may throw out the brake balance, which woudl then effect the stopping distance of the car as all tyres cannot reach their theshold limit.

Ollie

Thats why you upgrade both front and rear so this doesnt happen...:)

So if the brakes are not way too hot, how can a car with a brembo brakes brake better than my car? Ollie
It's due to the increased size of the brake pad which is on a bigger caliper clamping onto a bigger disc creating much more friction and hence creating more stopping power to the vehicle.

Here's a bit of an article I just found. I'm sure there's more on that site.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/brake.htm

It's due the increased size of the brake pad which is on a bigger caliper clamping onto a bigger disc creating much more friction and hence creating more stopping power to the vehicle.

Some people are hung up on the idea that bigger brakes won't make a difference in a car equipped with ABS or where the standard brake hardware is capable of making the wheels "lock up". While there is some logic to the argument that "if I can make my wheels lock up now (or make ABS activate) with standard brakes, how will bigger calipers / rotors make the car stop better if they just make the wheels lock (or activate ABS) anyway".

Fact of the matter is this:

Bigger brakes (calipers, rotors, pads, braided brake lines etc) will make any car stop better, and I challenge anyone who doesn't believe it to take a ride in a magna with upgraded brakes. The results will speak for themselves.

I must admit that I've never quite understood how having really brilliant brakes actually lets you stop so much quicker. I had always understood the limiting factor to be the effect of physics between the ground and the rubber as is opposed to between brake and disc.

Is the case with higher end brakes that you can apply much more pressure and obtain much more braking power before the brake pad complete stops the disc and thus causes a slide?
IE. Ts the threshold of a threshhold brake not actually the point at which the rubber will let go but rather the pressure at which the brake pads can no longer allow continued rotation and thus cause the rubber to let go by biting in and ceasing disc rotation?

Correct, when the limiting factor is the ABS threshold, having bigger/stronger brakes makes no difference. However you'll find with cheapo/small brakes, it doesn't take much to get them overheated/fading. E.g Do one hard stop from say 130km/hr with the factory single-pot brakes. Get back up to 130km/hr and do another hard stop, you'll immediately notice that much more pedal pressure is required, and you may not actually be able trigger ABS anymore, and therefore braking slower than before.

Also it's not just about braking force and resistance to fade, it's also about the feel. Generally good/strong brakes require less pedal pressure, give more feedback and have a much more linear reponse in relation to pedal pressure/travel. All this makes brake modulation easier when driving hard, and just feels better.

Really to get from A to B, you aren't really gonan notice the benefits of good brakes. But hit the track, or even fang it hard around a windy highway, and you'll realise having better brakes is priceless.

Brembo is popular simply because they have established themselves as one of the best, and have a broad range of solutions for OEM cars.

Even upgrading my pissy little 4 cylinder spec brakes on my TR to twin piston KS 6 cylinder spec brakes made a noticeable difference. Not brembo but hey... Why would you put them on a 14 year old car lol

when ppl talk about ABS as the limiting factor, i found the brakes overode the ABS. instead of the usual thump thump thump u get when ABS kicks in, i now get the tyres chirping from about 150km/h to zero.

Its an awesome feeling hitting 180 down the main straight of a race track, standing on the brakes for an 70-80km/h bend and feeling like the car is going to do a forward flip.

when ppl talk about ABS as the limiting factor, i found the brakes overode the ABS. instead of the usual thump thump thump u get when ABS kicks in, i now get the tyres chirping from about 150km/h to zero.

Its an awesome feeling hitting 180 down the main straight of a race track, standing on the brakes for an 70-80km/h bend and feeling like the car is going to do a forward flip.

Brakes can't "override" ABS Jase.

I think you'll find the reason for the difference in ABS behaviour is because larger brakes with more clamping pressure can switch on and off quicker, so to speak.

Perhaps this does reduce braking distance a little, I'm not sure.

I actually noticed this when I went from the single-pots to the ralliart brakes, if you mash the brake pedal it makes a tyre chirping noise, rather than a thump-thump-thump noise.

As we all know, you'll stop alot quicker if you can keep the wheels from locking up. (You want them near to locking, but not)

This is because dynamic friction (ie wheels on road moving) is much higher than static friction (sliding).

Bigger brakes stop a car faster because they give you more control and feel. You can get the wheels extremely close to locking, without locking.
I always think about this like trying to squeeze one of those hand exerciser things. Imagine you can only *just* barely squeeze it closed. You're arm is shaking all over the place and you feel like you might burst. Now try to let it open 3mm.
Not gonna happen.
When you are on the limit of force, you have no control.

Upgrade the hardware so it's much easer to squeeze the thing closed, and you get alot more control.

-Dan

Brembos are just the Best...:) All im going to say i thought they where good and i knew my car would stop good.. But now they are on and ive tested them well they are ****en amazing. Didnt ever think they would pull the car up that quick. feels like back wheels lift on braking..:) after having these will never upgrade to anything else. Very happy i did it now..:)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2122/2038219817_92195cb9c8.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2232/2039014710_06b1f3b6c2.jpg

brakes like that turn me on.

am i weird?

brakes like that turn me on.

am i weird?


Hahahaha NO..:P They have the same effect on me.. Thats why i got them..:)

Brakes can't "override" ABS Jase.

I think you'll find the reason for the difference in ABS behaviour is because larger brakes with more clamping pressure can switch on and off quicker, so to speak.

Perhaps this does reduce braking distance a little, I'm not sure.

I actually noticed this when I went from the single-pots to the ralliart brakes, if you mash the brake pedal it makes a tyre chirping noise, rather than a thump-thump-thump noise.
yeah thats what i ment. If the brakes did override the abs i would have found the wall by now.

Brembos are just the Best...:) All im going to say i thought they where good and i knew my car would stop good.. But now they are on and ive tested them well they are ****en amazing. Didnt ever think they would pull the car up that quick. feels like back wheels lift on braking..:) after having these will never upgrade to anything else. Very happy i did it now..:)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2122/2038219817_92195cb9c8.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2232/2039014710_06b1f3b6c2.jpg
That's sweet! Good to see a pic finally!

check out the brembos on that lol

Brembo actually makes brakes for mountain bikes too lol

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/3559/allfinishedfr6.jpg

These are the same callipers that come factory on the VZ Clubsports (but have HSV written on them instead of pbr). But obviously will perform better on a Magna due to lower weight. :P

As we all know, you'll stop alot quicker if you can keep the wheels from locking up. (You want them near to locking, but not)
This is because dynamic friction (ie wheels on road moving) is much higher than static friction (sliding).
Bigger brakes stop a car faster because they give you more control and feel. You can get the wheels extremely close to locking, without locking.
-Dan

Good to see some real physics being applied to this never ending wonder about brakes.
Small system will reach the "threshold" in more abrubt manner and activate ABS sooner, where as larger system allows for adjusting and provides better slowing down without locking wheels. Obvioulsy depends on a driver....
Learnt to drive in snow - never lock the wheels or else!

But what do those bolt-on Brembos for Magna cost????

Good to see some real physics being applied to this never ending wonder about brakes.
Small system will reach the "threshold" in more abrubt manner and activate ABS sooner, where as larger system allows for adjusting and provides better slowing down without locking wheels. Obvioulsy depends on a driver....
Learnt to drive in snow - never lock the wheels or else!

But what do those bolt-on Brembos for Magna cost????
Well for a starters they aren't "bolt-on" for magnas unfortunately. They require a specific offset so the rim will clear the caliper. Second of all, if buying new it will cost you an arm and a leg. However, you can get, and I've seen, full sets of Brembos including calipers, pads, rotors, lines the whole deal for $1k. Fairly often tho I'll see just the calipers for sale for anywhere from $700-$1000, then add the cost of pads, lines and rotors - you're lookin at closer to $2k for front and rear.

Well for a starters they aren't "bolt-on" for magnas unfortunately. They require a specific offset so the rim will clear the caliper. Second of all, if buying new it will cost you an arm and a leg. However, you can get, and I've seen, full sets of Brembos including calipers, pads, rotors, lines the whole deal for $1k. Fairly often tho I'll see just the calipers for sale for anywhere from $700-$1000, then add the cost of pads, lines and rotors - you're lookin at closer to $2k for front and rear.


There is a few sets of front calipers floating arounding. harder to find front and rears. If you do u done real well to get the whole lot for under $2k..:)

There is a few sets of front calipers floating arounding. harder to find front and rears. If you do u done real well to get the whole lot for under $2k..:)
There's 3 or 4 sets for sale atm on EVO OZ around $1k-$2.5k. I think megatron bought some recently for not much more than $1k.

Ok, now here's one:
I'm a fairly poor uni student and I'm going to need to do my brake pads and discs fairly soon. For that reason I am considering performing some improvement on the brake bits while I'm at it.

If I do this, I have to do it on a small budget (ie not *too* much more than the cost of simply getting discs and pads replaced).

Is there a commendable "budget alternative" to Brembo and the other "big boys"?

Ok, now here's one:
I'm a fairly poor uni student and I'm going to need to do my brake pads and discs fairly soon. For that reason I am considering performing some improvement on the brake bits while I'm at it.

If I do this, I have to do it on a small budget (ie not *too* much more than the cost of simply getting discs and pads replaced).

Is there a commendable "budget alternative" to Brembo and the other "big boys"?
Yeah, slotted rotors and good pads. thats about it

']Yeah, slotted rotors and good pads. thats about it

In terms of brake pads, I've always gone with Bendix ultimate when I fit them.
Do others have a specific recommendation for a good alternative (or a recommendation to stick with the Bendix pads for that matter)

I've gone with the bendix ultimates a few times in my previous cars, and i think they work well for the road. They do chew the rotors though, but i spose all aggressive pads do......

Ok, now here's one:
I'm a fairly poor uni student and I'm going to need to do my brake pads and discs fairly soon. For that reason I am considering performing some improvement on the brake bits while I'm at it.

If I do this, I have to do it on a small budget (ie not *too* much more than the cost of simply getting discs and pads replaced).

Is there a commendable "budget alternative" to Brembo and the other "big boys"?

380 Twin piston setup.

Ok, now here's one:
I'm a fairly poor uni student and I'm going to need to do my brake pads and discs fairly soon. For that reason I am considering performing some improvement on the brake bits while I'm at it.

If I do this, I have to do it on a small budget (ie not *too* much more than the cost of simply getting discs and pads replaced).

Is there a commendable "budget alternative" to Brembo and the other "big boys"?

The 380 twin piston kit that Megatron assembled a while ago, for $950, had calipers, braided lines, DBA 4000 Series 296x28mm slotted rotors, and Bendix Ultimate pads. Well worth it.

If you can stretch a bit, like TUFFTR said, go for some slotted rotors, and a decend compound pad.

The 380 twin piston kit that Megatron assembled a while ago, for $950, had calipers, braided lines, DBA 4000 Series 296x28mm slotted rotors, and Bendix Ultimate pads. Well worth it.

If you can stretch a bit, like TUFFTR said, go for some slotted rotors, and a decend compound pad.

Awesome, thanks for the advice (and thanks to others before it).

I shall have to save up for a bit before I can afford it unfortunately.
Hopefully the current discs will survive one more machining before needing replacement. I'll get good pads and machine the current discs and start saving for the kit for when my new set of pads run out and the discs finally have to be replaced.

Is that kit just for front wheels or does it do anything (even just the pads) for the rear?

Awesome, thanks for the advice (and thanks to others before it).

I shall have to save up for a bit before I can afford it unfortunately.
Hopefully the current discs will survive one more machining before needing replacement. I'll get good pads and machine the current discs and start saving for the kit for when my new set of pads run out and the discs finally have to be replaced.

Is that kit just for front wheels or does it do anything (even just the pads) for the rear?

You can pick the full 380 brake assembly up from a wreckers for $300 including pads if your really strapped for cash.

You can pick the full 380 brake assembly up from a wreckers for $300 including pads if your really strapped for cash.

Hmmm, could be a good option; I'll have to check my local wreckers and see what they have available.
I must admit I have a little bit of an academic concern over buying important parts off a wrecked car. It seems that perhaps there may have been an important reason why the car ended up at a wrecker in the first place.

Hmmm, could be a good option; I'll have to check my local wreckers and see what they have available.
I must admit I have a little bit of an academic concern over buying important parts off a wrecked car. It seems that perhaps there may have been an important reason why the car ended up at a wrecker in the first place.

Yeah, its called human error.

Yeah, its called human error.

lol

So true.

I'll have a look at a few wreckers tomorrow and see what I can find. :)

Ok, now here's one:
I'm a fairly poor uni student and I'm going to need to do my brake pads and discs fairly soon. For that reason I am considering performing some improvement on the brake bits while I'm at it.
If I do this, I have to do it on a small budget (ie not *too* much more than the cost of simply getting discs and pads replaced).
Is there a commendable "budget alternative" to Brembo and the other "big boys"?
']Yeah, slotted rotors and good pads. thats about itCheck this thread out too...
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53697

Well for a starters they aren't "bolt-on" for magnas unfortunately. They require a specific offset so the rim will clear the caliper.

Thanks. Things are sometimes made to look very simple and cheap, so I wanted some figures posted here..... :)
And then comes the legality issue - have all u guys had your new brake systems "Certified"?

To other posts - Ultimates chewing the rotors? Weird, cos those pads are quite soft (I like them!).

And then comes the legality issue - have all u guys had your new brake systems "Certified"?


Mine will added to my engineers cert in the comming months..:)