Hey all.

A question for those who have reached 180+FWKW...

What is the torque steer like? Hard to live with? How do you deal with it?

Regards,
Alex

Your best bet is some nice grippy tyres, and good wheel allignment, and an ifinately variable right foot!:bowrofl:

Lets just say LSDs rule in this case..:)

Hey all.

A question for those who have reached 180+FWKW...

What is the torque steer like? Hard to live with? How do you deal with it?

Regards,
Alex
pfft, i dont even notice it

TZA - So you dont even notice it? Ive been reading reviews about the ralliart, and they have been saying its a torque steering pig... (but then again, bongandoor drivers are trying to handle it)...

So i was wondering what 180+fwkw feels like to drive compaired to 130~160fwkw...

Regards,
Alex

Well i had LSD in and didnt even notice talk steer..

Once i look the LSD out it was all over the place and very hard to drive..:P

TZA - So you dont even notice it? Ive been reading reviews about the ralliart, and they have been saying its a torque steering pig... (but then again, bongandoor drivers are trying to handle it)...

So i was wondering what 180+fwkw feels like to drive compaired to 130~160fwkw...

Regards,
Alex
mate, with near 220kw atw's i dont even notice it. then only thing ppl might not like is when accelerating out of a tight corner, the car likes to continue turning. there is a bit of load on the wheel when bringing the car straight again but nothing bad, i personally like it as it gives the wheel some more feel

It all depends on what you're used to. I never used to think my Ralliart torque steered at all, then I got the EVO. Going back and driving the Ralliart now, the torque steer is very noticeable (my car has around 140fwkw) So yeah, if you only drive the Magna you get used to it and won't notice it much. But, go from car to car and you will notice it in the Magna more.

the missus pulsar has about 90kw at the front wheels and it torque steers like a bitch, but it needs a wheel alignment. but we also have pretty bad roads so that doesn't help

Or you get a little Pulsar ET and they used to just about change lanes on a gear change lol

My standard 3.5L exec torque steers. You can't help that, same way you can't help the back end flying out in a RWD when gunning it. As others have said you learn to control it, it comes down to what you are used to.

My standard 3.5L exec torque steers. You can't help that, same way you can't help the back end flying out in a RWD when gunning it.
ummm.. yes you can...

I think torque steer is incredibly exaggerated by FWD-hating bogans :)

I've tried booting it and taking the hands off the steering wheel, as long as the road is smooth and level, all you get is a very mild veer to one side.

Now that I have the LSD the steering does tug a fair bit if you boot it out of a corner, but unless you like to steer with one finger, it's not an issue. I think it's a good thing anyway, helps give you a better idea of what the front end is doing.

I think torque-steer can be a bit unerving to people who aren't use to it, but unnoticable to those who are. I don't think it's necessarily torque steer itself that unnerves people, but the way in which the steering in a FWD tends to change in weight/feel under hard acceleration, whereas in a RWD it always feels the same.

My story is much the same as what TZA and Disciple have said. I never used to notice torque steer at all, but on the day I picked my car up after it's most recent diff replacement I very much noticed it (eg: nearly crossed into the left hand lane unintentionally).

I don't think it was because of the characteristics of the quaiffe LSD - I think it was the fact that I hadn't driven the car in over 4 months, a few weeks on and only having put a couple of hundred k's on the clock since then, and I'm back to not noticing it again.

So yeah - it's just something you get used to, and I reckon your arms just subconsciously compensate.



I've tried booting it and taking the hands off the steering wheel, as long as the road is smooth and level, all you get is a very mild veer to one side.


That really surprises me....... do you mean you start to accelerate, then take your hands off the wheel?? or have your hands off the wheel from a standing start and then "boot it". The reason I ask is I accidentally took off from a set of lights (rather quickly) one day, with my hands in my lap, and I nearly ended up in the rear passenger door of the car beside me, and that was in my old fairly stock 4spd auto TJ.

That really surprises me....... do you mean you start to accelerate, then take your hands off the wheel?? or have your hands off the wheel from a standing start and then "boot it". The reason I ask is I accidentally took off from a set of lights (rather quickly) one day, with my hands in my lap, and I nearly ended up in the rear passenger door of the car beside me, and that was in my old fairly stock 4spd auto TJ.

I agree here... if I take off hard with no hands on the steering wheel, i pretty quickly move into the lane next to me.

My theory (everyone else has one!) is that it depends a lot on wheel and tyre combo, driveshaft setup and even power steering configuration.

Like BB, I used to get a fair bit of torque steer in my KE. In the 380, hardly noticed it and since found it has something to do with the power steering pump used to dampen the tendency.
Also, on fitting bigger wheels and lower profile tyres I've found a further reduction in what little torque steer I had. I do get more tramlining tho.

However, would I let go of the wheel with WOT? Err no.

ummm.. yes you can...
Sorry a better phrase would be "You can't stop it", not completely anyway, not when WOT from a standing point.

Sorry a better phrase would be "You can't stop it", not completely anyway, not when WOT from a standing point.
You can dude, its called using your muscles. I'm sure you have those :cool:

tonba arent you selling your car?

if you are in a rwd without an lsd and dump the clutch it will rarely kick sideways as only 1 wheel is spinning. even in a car with a lsd it won't just kick out sideways unless you have the wheels turned a bit or the road is uneven. most times it will just squirm down the road. the back will only move out at most about 1 foot each way unless you start swinging on the wheel to get it to do it.

as for torque steer, the magnas are one of the best for not having it. a lot of older fwd cars were terrible, especially the pulsars, and especially, as was said, the et pulsars. the ones that had a viscous lsd were almost deadly. nissan removed the lsd from later models due to the torque steer it had.

also wheel alignment can play a big part. it you have too much toe out you will get it more than if your wheel alignment is good. also tyres that tramline will cause it as well.

but if you really want to feel it take a fwd onto a rough, uneven dirt road and floor it. it will be all over the place.

That really surprises me....... do you mean you start to accelerate, then take your hands off the wheel?? or have your hands off the wheel from a standing start and then "boot it". The reason I ask is I accidentally took off from a set of lights (rather quickly) one day, with my hands in my lap, and I nearly ended up in the rear passenger door of the car beside me, and that was in my old fairly stock 4spd auto TJ.

What I did was coast along at around 3000rpm in 1st or 2nd gear, take my hands off the wheel (but keeping them close ready to grab the wheel if necessary), then sink the boot in.

I did it a few times on what seemed to be a smooth/level road out of curiousity, and every time it would simply veer slowly/gently gently to one side, no savage torque steering into the gutter type stuff.

Not exactly scientific I know, but I was pleasantly surprised that it didn't see to wanto veer off suddenly when sinking the boot.

I wouldn't try it out of a corner though, with the LSD you can feel the wheel tugging quite alot in your hands.

you torque steer into a gutter and crash and then my ultimate rwd'ness will make me do a hektik skid (with my single spinner) up the road in victory where i shall hektikly drift around teh corner!


/being a rwd driver


seriously though,m after driving my gfs 2nd gen (which is admittedly stuffed) i dont see the big deal about torque steer, its no worse than (probably better than) driving a RWD and flooring it

You can dude, its called using your muscles. I'm sure you have those :cool:
lol i still haven't perfected it, TJ's steering is too damn light :P.

lol i still haven't perfected it, TJ's steering is too damn light :P.

You can say that again.....:confused:

Torque steer can sometimes used instead of "tramlining". lowered cars suffer from that mostly, and after seeing the state of our roads these days... it happens all the time.....

Generally when our hot summers heat the bitumen, and car after car after truck create these two "channels" in the lanes,
I heard from a tyre dude that directional tyres make tramlining worse... I dunno.... happens in both of my cars...

My Evo 6 tramlines like a mongrel on these sorts of roads.....

Keep both hands on the wheel and be ready for it...

Steve

Turbos are a bugger for it - especially when you run lowered compression and high boost - recipe for disaster in the wet.

I had an old Saab that destroyed two rims due to a two lane change out of a corner - that was savage, it used to rip the (very small) steering wheel out of your hands! 18psi boost (22psi peak on takeoff due to wastegate issues) and 7.5:1 compression ratio... :nuts:

Magnas will always have some torque steer as they have unequal drive shafts (un-even torque distribution).

But as has been said you get used to it. I remember noticing a fair amount of torque steer after the 3.5L conversion, after about a month I stopped noticing it.

my old little circut racer AE92 corolla.. had a torqueless 20v 4AGE in her.. coilovers, big brakes, stripped out.. the usual.. had some good street tyres on the 15's.. the levin (that i got the motor/box out of) comes factory with equal length shafts.. it has a mount on the engine block, thus leaving the outer shafts as almost the exact same length.. never torque steered.. but then again.. didn't have enough torque to have this problem..

however.. same combo, in a mates car with a aftermarket mechanicle LSD.. give it some herbs in a tight corner and an average road surface the car goes straight ahead.. doesn't matter what way the wheels are turning.. especially in the wet.. and being a 2 way.. doesn't really help on decel either.. so very very carful in the wet around round abouts..

having said that though.. a mate ownes a 300fwhp fwd celica.. bagloads of torque.. turns 3rd gear on the freeway etc etc.. not LSD 'yet' (mr2 turbo box with aftermarket LSD in the shed) and it changes lanes when you give it a what for in 2nd or 3rd.. cheap 'antyre' black round rubber thing (215/45s) don't put up much of a fight..

my old little circut racer AE92 corolla.. had a torqueless 20v 4AGE in her.. coilovers, big brakes, stripped out.. the usual.. had some good street tyres on the 15's.. the levin (that i got the motor/box out of) comes factory with equal length shafts.. it has a mount on the engine block, thus leaving the outer shafts as almost the exact same length.. never torque steered.. but then again.. didn't have enough torque to have this problem..

however.. same combo, in a mates car with a aftermarket mechanicle LSD.. give it some herbs in a tight corner and an average road surface the car goes straight ahead.. doesn't matter what way the wheels are turning.. especially in the wet.. and being a 2 way.. doesn't really help on decel either.. so very very carful in the wet around round abouts..

having said that though.. a mate ownes a 300fwhp fwd celica.. bagloads of torque.. turns 3rd gear on the freeway etc etc.. not LSD 'yet' (mr2 turbo box with aftermarket LSD in the shed) and it changes lanes when you give it a what for in 2nd or 3rd.. cheap 'antyre' black round rubber thing (215/45s) don't put up much of a fight..
that's just understeer not torque steer.

a car doesn't really have to have that much torque to torque steer. just the contributing factors like wheel alignment and uneven driveshafts.

i know thats understeer, but we were on the topic of LSD's so i thought that may be relevant.. however i'm sure that the mitsi LSD's are not so harsh

it isn't a case of being harsh. (as far as understeer goes) it is laws of physics. when an object is going round a corner its inertia is straight ahead, not round the corner, so when the drive wheels, which are also turning the car lose traction it goes straight ahead.

it isn't a case of being harsh. (as far as understeer goes) it is laws of physics. when an object is going round a corner its inertia is straight ahead, not round the corner, so when the drive wheels, which are also turning the car lose traction it goes straight ahead.

He mentioned a 2-way LSD - that would have a hell of alot to do with causing understeer as the two drive wheels are basically coupled together under both acceleration and deceleration, so it's about as close as you can get to a welded diff. Great for a purpose built drift car, stupid in a (street driven) front wheel drive.

He mentioned a 2-way LSD - that would have a hell of alot to do with causing understeer as the two drive wheels are basically coupled together under both acceleration and deceleration, so it's about as close as you can get to a welded diff. Great for a purpose built drift car, stupid in a (street driven) front wheel drive.

bingo.. was great in my old AE86 track beater.. in fwd however... hrm... not unless it's a drag car.. it's painfull to drive.. especially without pwr steering..

He mentioned a 2-way LSD - that would have a hell of alot to do with causing understeer as the two drive wheels are basically coupled together under both acceleration and deceleration, so it's about as close as you can get to a welded diff. Great for a purpose built drift car, stupid in a (street driven) front wheel drive.
but he also mentions giving it a bootful while in a corner, so 1 way or 2 way it is going to do the same thing.

but he also mentions giving it a bootful while in a corner, so 1 way or 2 way it is going to do the same thing.

i also mentioned it's a mechanicle 2 - way.. i'm not sure that mitsi used in thier factory LSD's but if like a viscous LSD they fell nothing like a tight mechanicle LSD..

no one has mentioned this yet!

but my awd with either 100kw atw or 180w atw pre and post s/c never torque steers, just sitback with some bach on for a smooth relaxing drive :P

no one has mentioned this yet!

but my awd with either 100kw atw or 180w atw pre and post s/c never torque steers, just sitback with some bach on for a smooth relaxing drive :P
AWD's don't tend to torque steer. Altho with the power I'm making now I can chirp all 4 wheels with a brisk takeoff. :badgrin:

i also mentioned it's a mechanicle 2 - way.. i'm not sure that mitsi used in thier factory LSD's but if like a viscous LSD they fell nothing like a tight mechanicle LSD..

The LSD used in the Ralliart Magnas was not a clutch pack style LSD, nor was it a viscous coupling style LSD. I believe it was what is generally called a "torque sensing" (or torsen) type LSD, which by all accounts is very similar to the Quaife LSDs that RPW are now importing.

(from the quaifes website: )
http://www.quaife.co.uk/assets/ATB-diff-Bamber-cutaway28033.jpg

Having had both a 1 way clutch pack style LSD and now a Quaife ATB (automatic torque biasing) LSD in my car - the Quaife LSD basically behaves like an open differential under normal driving conditions.

Anyway - what am I saying, this post belongs in a tread about LSD's, not one about torque steer :nuts:

On the sh**ty roads around where I live, if you put the boot properly down and catch one of the "imperfections", the Verada's steering wheel can get thrown out of your hand if you don't have your mind on things. (Yeah, I know, I'm a terrible driver)