I've been looking at ES 380 models (no other models available in my price range) at the auctions and I had assumed that Traction control would be standard accross the range, but to my shock it was not until the series 3 that it was standard across the range. Which explains why upon closer examination the ex-Gov Es models don't have it.

When I drove a TJ Magna 3.5 it seemed to be an effort to avoid wheel spin if taking off brisky at the lights, with much more power and torque available in the 380 (Ralliart power almost) it must get interesting especially in the wet without TCL.

This along with a number of other things (Pov looking 1980's digital clock where a multi function screen should be even in base models (like ford and holden), COME ON MMA the base model TH Magna had a function screen! no split fold seat:shock: hidden steering wheel mounted audio controls, cannot turn vents off anywhere etc etc. I am also uncertain as to whether or not they have a trip computer, a feature I find useful, they probably have.

It is these omissions which will force me back into a local RWD "Taxi" again (I only buy local cars) when I think the 380 is heaps better. But for me personally being a die hard RWD type a powerful FWD without TCL would be a big problem for me.:rant:

I am not criticizing the 380 (best locally made car) as much as venting my frustration with regards to my personal situation, I must admit I started wishing Mitsubishi Aust would make a RWD after seeing how brilliant the TJ Magna was, and being a person who has little experience or skill driving FWD compared to RWD lack of TCL would be a problem for me more so than some others.

If thats all correct (and I have no reason to doubt you) then no wonder mitsu had a slow start on these.
Their cars have always been known for the extras over the others.
Either they dropped the ball somewhat or these were just "govt only" povo packs.:)

I've been looking at ES 380 models (no other models available in my price range) at the auctions and I had assumed that Traction control would be standard accross the range, but to my shock it was not until the series 3 that it was standard across the range. Which explains why upon closer examination the ex-Gov Es models don't have it.

thats the problem ur a second hand car buyer. it was optional on the ES.

Yeah I can remember in 2002 buying a VX executive over a Mitsubishi Magna TJ Advance I had to do without power windows,climate control etc. And the TJ would have been a far more rewarding drive with the VX's 'deader than Ansett' steering, but the LSD with RWD and FE2 got me in. For what it's worth the TJ would have beaten it in a straight line to but that VX never went well anyway (ex cop car probably thrashed :badgrin: )

Yes second hand, the ones I am looking at in my price range are ex government vehicles, and none so far have been fitted with TCL, the people at the auctions say that most ex gov fleet cars are not optioned up at all. There are some VRX models there but they are considerably dearer (out of my price range)

Maybe you would be better off buying a TW VR-X or something? That way you still get a relatively new car with allthe goodies and should be a bit cheaper than a 380 ES.

If you are putting it on LPG they will disarm the traction control anyway. So i suppose there is no point looking for a car with it.

I am also uncertain as to whether or not they have a trip computer, a feature I find useful, they probably have.
And yes they do have a 10 function trip computer. The display is in the tacho and the controls are to the left of the instrument cluster.

no split fold seat:shock:
And the reason for the lack of 60/40 is for a stronger rear structure. Extra cross members for increased torsional rigidity.

Yes second hand, the ones I am looking at in my price range are ex government vehicles, and none so far have been fitted with TCL, the people at the auctions say that most ex gov fleet cars are not optioned up at all. There are some VRX models there but they are considerably dearer (out of my price range)
I would have thought this would be painfully obvious, but maybe you want too much for your $$$? Either accept the fact you can't afford what you want or save up abit more money (ideal).

You're looking at 2nd hand ex-gov fleet vehicles, which were the cheapest of cheap models to keep fleet prices down.

If I spend more I'd probably go for something else but at the price they are a good buy, better value than anything else out there, and yes LPG is not compatible with TCL (use petrol in the wet:D ) it's just the other omissions as well add up.

Most things are left out for reasons out of control of the company, like the split fold seats compromised for torsional rigidity, the digital clock in place of a function screen to separate base models from premium. I just think that with 343 NM through the front hoops TCL should be standard but this of course would raise the price as mentioned, especially with fleets. But 343 NM is a lot of torque for FWD, but I guess people who have bought them have not complained so presumably the suspension set up is designed to minimise torque steer.

And of course it is painfully obvious that base models will usually have TCL as an option as with all cars (some makes don't offer a TCL base option) but since the 380 has much more torque than any other FWD atmo family car available here (more torque than commodore to) I'd erroneously assumed that it was standard across the range, the series 3 380's have TCL standard across the range, just not the series 1 or 2, the latter being the model I've been looking at.

My main frustration is that they are better than Ford or Holden as an all round package for the price, you get 4 elec windows instead of 2 fronts, but the lack of split rear seats and no wagon option does narrow MMA's audience of prospective family car buyers. As far as I've heard MMA could not have made it RWD as it is based on the U.S. Galant, pity though they are a very under rated car.
Lets not turn this into a FWD vs RWD thread even if it's headed that way there is enough of those threads around already, that is a debate that will probably never end and is really based on personal choice rather than what's better.

I plan to test drive a few anyway, I may end up a FWD convert.
P.S. My bad, they do have a 10 function trip computer in the dash which is no doubt way ahead of mine in features

I know what your talking about with the Magna. Even on slight throttle in the dry your sometimes left scratching your head as to why the car isnt getting anywhere only to here one of the wheels spinning away.The 380s i've driven at work arent that bad for grip that i've noticed. Definetely better than Magna.

My main frustration is that they are better than Ford or Holden as an all round package for the price, you get 4 elec windows instead of 2 fronts, but the lack of split rear seats and no wagon option does narrow MMA's audience of prospective family car buyers. As far as I've heard MMA could not have made it RWD as it is based on the U.S. Galant, pity though they are a very under rated car.
Lets not turn this into a FWD vs RWD thread even if it's headed that way there is enough of those threads around already, that is a debate that will probably never end and is really based on personal choice rather than what's better.



Sounds like you have already made your mind up. If you are worried about wheel spin at evey set of lights then go to the local drag strip. Drive it to the conditions of the road. You state "does narrow MMA's audience of prospective family car buyers" FAMILY. Maybe you are after anpther Holden Try a SS.:nuts:

I drive mine fairly hard at times as I've just done nice mods (long story, different thread) but I hardly ever get wheel spin, though I can if I push it. In the wet you would get more, but at least a FWD won't go as crazy as a fishtailing RWD.
I agree the 380 is great value... that's why I bought one, but until you get that committed and confident, you'd better keep looking around.

You think 343Nm is bad in a FWD, try TZABOY or Sports' cars. They must be pushing close to 500Nm and they're FWD - imagine trying to reign those suckers in! lol

Auspest if I'd made my mind up I would not be on a Mitsubishi forum asking questions, yes I am a hard core RWD junkie who loves Holdens and Fords (SS, XR6T, etc)
But I am over 40 (hence the RWD bias,I got my license in 1979) and don't spin my wheels at the lights no matter what I am driving, I once owned a Pulsar ET Turbo and had a couple of bad experiences with torque steer and vowed never to own a powerful FWD car again and of course went back to RWD (R31 Skyline)

The problem I am facing is that there is no argument that MMA build a far superior car than the other local manufacturers so much so that it is almost embarrasing. (sorry Ford and Holden lovers)

As an Adelaide born person I hold MMA's future close to my heart and want them to do well and stay,but by leaving out 60/40 rear seats and with no wagon option as yet it really is going to hurt them, surely they could have achieved equivalent body rigidity through the parcel shelf and floor etc.

If they were to close down most if not all people living here in Adelaide would be devastated (this is Adelaide's own car) so many of us hold the 380 close to our hearts.

I have been on Ford and Holden forums and apart from the narrow minded loyal fully sick brigade the Magna and 380 have earned a healthy respect from most people even if it was not for them, many concede to how good they are and how well they go.

I could buy an SS tomorrow if I wanted to, I drove a BA XR6, it looked great but drove like a Taxi (high km's), I drove a VX SS 6 spd manual, great fun, but as a daily driver at my age? It would have to be on LPG with the price of fuel, with the 380 I'd be getting refinement over brawn and for what it's worth from what I've heard a healthy 380 will hold it's own against a lot of these RWD (muscle cars) anyway.

Adelaide citizens want MMA to stay and prosper, and I'm one of these citizens hence the emotional level of my thread, I am tired of Mitsubishi's cars being under rated by buyers of other brands and feel that if things were a bit different (split seats, wagon option, and ultimately RWD so it can match the Ford and Holden's towing capacity AWD would be even better) our great city of Adelaide would be producing a world class RWD family car like Chrysler used to in the 60's and 70's.:bowrofl:

Disciple, 500 nm front hoops, who dares wins.

Well said mate, I echo your sentiments entirely, I too am an Adelaide born Mitsu fan and hold the triple diamond close to my heart.

I drove dozens of 380's when I was at Europcar, particularly the standard/ES model and had no trouble with spin, even with TCL off. Bloody beaut's to drive. :D

A good driver should be able to get into virtually any car, be it FWD, RWD or AWD, manual or auto, supercar to 4x4. If you're going to floor it then you're always going to get spin regardless of what wheels are driven.

As M4DDOG said, the ES is specifically designed for fleets who don't give a toss about appearance or standard features, that's why particularly MMAL release limited edition model's at the same price but with heaps of features aimed at the private buyer.

Either way you should be able to find a good used 380 with TCL for under $20k. :)

no split fold seat:shock:

So?The VE is the same setup in their car.New ford next year more that likey be the same setup.

So?The VE is the same setup in their car.New ford next year more that likey be the same setup.
The Falcon has 60/40. And has done so since the EA. But you are right... I dont think the ski port in the VE is hurting Holdens sales one iota! lol

VE Commodore would still sell well if it had NO back seat, due to it's loyal following, how else do you think GMH have got away with 1960's engine and gearbox technology and dreadful quality control for so long?

Since the 380 is the under dog it is in the spot light, the VE will probably have a wagon option soon for those people concerned about the lack of 60/40 seats, but I have heard nothing about the 380 being available as a wagon (and what a great wagon it would be with tint and 18" wheels:D )

I am not here to knock the 380, stop and think about the amount of rave the Magna Ralliart edition got in the motor mags, well I don't know much about the Magna Ralliart but in a straight line a base 380 pound for pound would be close (someone correct me if I'm wrong). :confused:

The 380 engine shares parts with the Ralliart Magna from what I've heard and has probably the best transmission in the country across the range. Mitsubishi IMHO has successfully shaken off the 'cardigan Image' which the motor mag writers erroneously called it, I think the Ralliart,VRX and Sports models in TH/TJ had already done that. I want the 380 to prosper as much as you guys. Camry/Avalon=Cardigan

Whats this thread about again? :confused:

Whats this thread about again? :confused:


dunno :nuts:

Whats this thread about again? :confused:

i dunno but suprisingly it has an element of holden bashing

i dunno but suprisingly it has an element of holden bashing
Were you really surprised??? I mean really? lol

lol no, i wasnt. seems alot of people on here can appreciate only mitsubishis, and maybe rediculously expensive cars

Hey guys I think the thread was originally about traction control on 380's, well that's how I started it but it's gone off on a tangent of FWD vs RWD , 60/40 seats, digital clocks, function screens, air vents, Holden bashing (my fault but I drive one) and the future of MMAL , well I started it and I think my query regarding traction control on base level ES 380's has been answered, the way it's headed it will end up in the general discussion forum, let's end it here before someone mentions rear door grab handles or something.

And for what its worth most of the thread deviating off topic was my fault:D Have a great Xmas and new year everyone.

lol no, i wasnt. seems alot of people on here can appreciate only mitsubishis, and maybe rediculously expensive cars
I'm not sure what this thread is about either but regarding the above comment, I bought a 380 because its a great car but I certainly appreciate other cars......a Clubsport Commodore or a GT Falcon would look real good parked in my driveway!!!!

Ilike,

As I've previously posted, I also drove the ET turbo pulsar. To carry concerns about a turbo FWD that is generations behind the current design of FWD is not really fair to the current cars or yourself.

The ET Pulsar was very light and the rear end was very floaty once unstuck in high speed undulating corners; as I found out going up the old Mt Barker road toward Crafers. The 380, even base model, is heavier and weight distribution and dynamics is far superior to that generation of FWD. I've never found the 380 floaty or a handful under power. TCL I don't think makes much difference.

The 380 has got limitations in load carrying and I agree with you re the fold down seat because I was also disappointed in that regard. However, I sidestepped that issue by fitting a towbar.

End of the day, you accept the limitations and love the positives or you go to a different make and model.

All i am going to say is ilike3.5 (dont we all!) drive a 380 auto and see for yourself how well engineered the FWD chassis is. It will really show you how a properly engineered FWD car is done. 343 nm is big torque regardless and yes the laws of physics say that putting all that torque through the front wheels and asking them to do the steering and the majority of the braking is a big task but Mitsu have really sorted the chassis well. Finely balanced is a good description. But just drive one. You will see.

Finely balanced is a good description. But just drive one. You will see.

Well said-Do as Type40 say,only one way to find out.:thumbsup:

Type 40, I drove one this morning (on holidays now) it was bloody fantastic and I see what you mean by how far the technology has come since Pulsar ET, I was very impressed, the car dealer was a pretty cool young dude and let me give it a bit, the midrange torque is astounding and when traction was lost (this was an ES series 2) there was very little feed back through the steering wheel. Very quiet and refined and a Gem of an engine\gearbox, people comment on the turning circle but I didn't think it was that bad, but I drive a pretty long wheel base wagon anyway. Cheers Guys:D

P.S. Change my user name to ilike3.8:badgrin:

Type 40, I drove one this morning (on holidays now) it was bloody fantastic and I see what you mean by how far the technology has come since Pulsar ET, I was very impressed, the car dealer was a pretty cool young dude and let me give it a bit, the midrange torque is astounding and when traction was lost (this was an ES series 2) there was very little feed back through the steering wheel. Very quiet and refined and a Gem of an engine\gearbox, people comment on the turning circle but I didn't think it was that bad, but I drive a pretty long wheel base wagon anyway. Cheers Guys:D

P.S. Change my user name to ilike3.8:badgrin:
Thats good to hear.....I also once owned a Nissan EXA turbo which was fun to drive but nearly broke your wrists when you gave it a boot-ful and the wheel tried to rip out of your hands. As you now know the 380 is another galaxy away from those old days.

Here's hoping we will have another 380 owner on this forum in the near future - well done!!!!!

Surely it can't be that bad.. I've driven a 97 VS 5.0 5spd with 17x7s with I think 215 or 225 rubber on the rears and its quite manable on takeoff, even when you do give it a bit of stick.

And that thing had some work done to it, over 400nm at the fly or something.

Surely it can't be that bad.. I've driven a 97 VS 5.0 5spd with 17x7s with I think 215 or 225 rubber on the rears and its quite manable on takeoff, even when you do give it a bit of stick.

And that thing had some work done to it, over 400nm at the fly or something.


Theres a bit of difference in taking off in a powerful FWD as opposed to a RWD.

Type 40, I drove one this morning (on holidays now) it was bloody fantastic and I see what you mean by how far the technology has come since Pulsar ET, I was very impressed, the car dealer was a pretty cool young dude and let me give it a bit, the midrange torque is astounding and when traction was lost (this was an ES series 2) there was very little feed back through the steering wheel. Very quiet and refined and a Gem of an engine\gearbox, people comment on the turning circle but I didn't think it was that bad, but I drive a pretty long wheel base wagon anyway. Cheers Guys:D

P.S. Change my user name to ilike3.8:badgrin:
The 3.8 teams so very well with the 5 speed auto. You would be doing well to find a better engine/trans combo for the money. Did you notice how on part throttle the engine cuts torque to smooth the shift? Very nifty.

Theres a bit of difference in taking off in a powerful FWD as opposed to a RWD.

Hows that? :)

um..cos one drives through the front wheels and the other drives through the rear... think about it

I think he is trying to be funny.

I think he is trying to be funny.

No really, are you saying that traction off the line is worse or better in a FWD car, how are you arguing with me.

Present your case. :P

Either your trying to incite an argument (likely), or you know nothing about driving a FWD car (unlikely). Either way, thats not what this thread is for.

yeah dont give the know it all the satisfaction

Either your trying to incite an argument (likely), or you know nothing about driving a FWD car (unlikely). Either way, thats not what this thread is for.

..... awwwwwwwwwww :bowrofl:

I just dont understand why it's being said it's unmanagable at the lights when taking off in a FWD car, who would ever want traction control. You'll find there's more off the line traction than a RWD car, the RWD car will only have more traction when the weight throughout the car has been moved to the back through acceleration. FWD is the opposite, it has initial traction off the line because of the weight already over the front wheels and then the weight moves to the back of the car.

Anyway, who would want traction control anyway, if it's anything like out of a YV I just turn it off, just use your right foot.. lol

Whats this thread about again? :confused:
Im quoting myself to get this back on track... FFS...

Type 40 I didn't drive it that far but I will say this much, the trans and engine team up together beautifully and compliment each other, but going by what you said that explains the almost seamless shifts with normal driving. Cheers all the best for 2008 everyone.:) Drive safely.

Im quoting myself to get this back on track... FFS...
pretty sure neo was talking about fwd and the need for traction control or not, which is what this thread is about, just took a bit to get it out of him. no need to blow a blood vessel over it

I suspect the guys complaining about getting wheelspin in daily driving are using crap tyres, or flooring it at the lights:nuts:

When my manual TJ sports had an open diff and stock rims, I don't recall having issues with wheelspin, unless delibrately provoking it off the line.

Although if the road is wet or particularly bumpy, wheelspin does come much easier.

I've driven a rental auto 380, IMO traction control really isn't needed.

..... awwwwwwwwwww :bowrofl:

I just dont understand why it's being said it's unmanagable at the lights when taking off in a FWD car, who would ever want traction control. You'll find there's more off the line traction than a RWD car, the RWD car will only have more traction when the weight throughout the car has been moved to the back through acceleration. FWD is the opposite, it has initial traction off the line because of the weight already over the front wheels and then the weight moves to the back of the car.

Anyway, who would want traction control anyway, if it's anything like out of a YV I just turn it off, just use your right foot.. lol

That seriously made no sense at all.

I say if you need traction control, buy a car with less power. They have gotten buy for years without these mod cons.:badgrin:

I say if you need traction control, buy a car with less power. They have gotten buy for years without these mod cons.:badgrin:
Exactly! A delicate right foot when the weather is bad or the road is average and you will never go wrong. The T/C on my old 380 is always on mainly because i cant be bothered reaching forward to push the button. Even if i switch it off the grip it has is amazing. 245's will do that however but even with the original tyres it was pretty good.

Lucky me (re this current arguement); I don't have Traction Control on my model, and haven't missed it at all. I've only had controlled wheel spins when I put the foot down hard.
Just my opinion, but if you were breaking traction at most take-offs then Traction Control probably wouldn't stop you from have an accident sooner or later.

Having now driven a 380 I don't see the real need for traction control, the chassis\suspension setup is so well balanced that TCL is no longer necessary, my experiences which provoked the starting of this thread was with a much older FWD powerful car (Nissan ET Turbo) and to a lesser extent the 3.5 Magna.

Scenario: Pulsar Et Turbo, I'm pulling out of service station, running late for appointment, I give it a bit to squeeze into a gap in the traffic, silly woman in fairlane suddenly without signaling switches to the left lane as I'm pulling out, upon seeing this I flatten it to get out of her way, front wheels spin under acceleration (with turbo boost) the car axle tramped and literally bounced into the other lane, I had no steering as the front skidded sideways into the right lane narrowly missing another car.

And before you people jump on the band wagon telling me to learn to drive, this all happened in a split second in first gear in a panic to get out of this bitches way as she was blasting her horn following her sudden unsignalled left lane change, the fact that she was speeding as well didn't help, the obvious solution was wait until the road is completely clear rather than squeezing into a gap, but if there is a person on this forum who has never given their car a bit in order to pull into a gap in the traffic when they are running late I'd like to meet them. Hind sight is a wonderful thing.

Had it been a 380 this would never have happened due to the excellent chassis/suspension setup, a 3.5 Magna would have also still tracked accurately albeit with excessive wheel spin,
my driving ability in FWD is clearly not as good as RWD due to lack of FWD experience, in normal everyday driving the Pulsar ET was OK, even fun at times, if I had been in my R31 skyline this would not have happened at all, but that is due to me rather than the car.

I'm out of here, my thread query has been answered with assistance to a test drive and in particular Type 40:bowrofl: to which I am grateful:)

P.S. The 1983 Holden JB Camira had GMH's first traction control system in the country, the 1.6 Camtech engine was GMH's secret to it's successful 1983 traction control system, the Camtech traction control system was more effective with auto trans but still did an outstanding job with the manual gearbox. The main side effect of this particular system was however episodes of road rage from old ladies in mustard Datsun 120Y's who were made late for lawn bowls.

I'm out of here, my thread query has been answered with assistance to a test drive and in particular Type 40:bowrofl: to which I am grateful:)
Its my pleasure! Only too pleased to assist. :D