my cars already lowered 50mm front and 40mm back on Tein springs, but it's still got quite noticeable wheel arch gap in the front, less so the back.

i neeeeed it to be lowered more, so my only option is compressing.

so, i'm probably looking at another 2-3cm in the front (not sure if i'll do the back). how are compressed springs like for ride/handling and are they dodgy or OK? my ride is pretty damn sweet for the amount it's already been lowered, but the wheel arch gap is just too damn huge and bugging me

You have 2 choices: lower the car more and ruin the handling, or leave it be and enjoy better handling. It just comes down to what your priorities are.

Personally I couldn't care less about a bit of wheelarch gap..guess what? It means you actually have a reasonable amount of suspension travel and your car doesn't handle like a pile of **** :)

Honestly, people these days :P

Personally I couldn't care less about a bit of wheelarch gap..guess what? It means you actually have a reasonable amount of suspension travel and your car doesn't handle like a pile of **** :)

Honestly, people these days :P

So cars are bad,heh?What about the new 4wd we got now with their big,big wheel-arch???

So cars are bad,heh?What about the new 4wd we got now with their big,big wheel-arch???

I'm sorry, 4wds are relevent to this thread how?

What chisolm said really but being low doesnt mean it handles like crap.
Well mine does but thats cause the springs in the front are wayyyyy too soft....
Ive had my rears compressed and i didnt notice any ride difference mate...

']What chisolm said really but being low doesnt mean it handles like crap.
Well mine does but thats cause the springs in the front are wayyyyy too soft....
Ive had my rears compressed and i didnt notice any ride difference mate...

Without making major geometry changes, unfortunantely dumping it will always result in crap handling. Note there's a difference between what feels good at 7/10s, and how it performs when pushed properly.

Basically OEM suspension is designed to work properly within a certain range of travel. Moving it too far outside of this range results in issues with wierd geometry and roll centres, and bottoming out/ride quality issues.

Really if you just wanto cruise around then on-edge handling isn't so important. However if you like to push your car around some corners sometimes, handling WILL suffer with excessive lowering.

Yes race cars ride very low, but they have major geometry changes, run very high spring rates and don't have to deal with public roads and daily driving.

IMO for a street driven car a 30-40mm lowering is fine and often helps handling (as long as you don't have a major mismatch between shock valving and spring rate), but any more without apprppriate changes and you are going backwards.

I know the majority of members here don't wanto hear this kind of thing, but that's because there's alot of misinformation floating around.

Compressing springs will change the rate of the spring... to god only knows what. :disgusted

Imho, not a good idea.

You have 2 choices: lower the car more and ruin the handling, or leave it be and enjoy better handling. It just comes down to what your priorities are.

Personally I couldn't care less about a bit of wheelarch gap..guess what? It means you actually have a reasonable amount of suspension travel and your car doesn't handle like a pile of **** :)

Honestly, people these days :P

totally agree

Basically OEM suspension is designed to work properly within a certain range of travel. Moving it too far outside of this range results in issues with wierd geometry and roll centres, and bottoming out/ride quality issues.

Really if you just want to cruise around then on-edge handling isn't so important. However if you like to push your car around some corners sometimes, handling WILL suffer with excessive lowering.

Yes race cars ride very low, but they have major geometry changes, run very high spring rates and don't have to deal with public roads and daily driving.

IMO for a street driven car a 30-40mm lowering is fine and often helps handling (as long as you don't have a major mismatch between shock valving and spring rate), but any more without apprppriate changes and you are going backwards.

I know the majority of members here don't wanto hear this kind of thing, but that's because there's alot of misinformation floating around.

Note you consider comfort as a factor in handling. I dont:) . My cars bumpy and its how i like it. Superlows and i only hit bumps on speed humps when im driving too fast awesome for cornering.

If you compress your springs my opinion of handling will improve but i wouldnt go too far as the spring rate and relative travel will remain similar meaning you may be strinking bumpstops regularly. Not really a problem in speedbump situations but i wouldnt want it to happen under hard cornering. Also the springs might start binding or whatever its called when they hit themselves (completely compressed)

Maybe see if the spring can be hardened cheaply through shot peening to stiffen it further meaning ultimate handling with the low as centre of gravity and appropriate spring rates. Also it'll look way better.

You have 2 choices: lower the car more and ruin the handling, or leave it be and enjoy better handling. It just comes down to what your priorities are.

Personally I couldn't care less about a bit of wheelarch gap..guess what? It means you actually have a reasonable amount of suspension travel and your car doesn't handle like a pile of **** :)

Honestly, people these days :P

i think andrewd has spawned the ultra low riding on bumpstops look :P

Note you consider comfort as a factor in handling. I dont:) . My cars bumpy and its how i like it. Superlows and i only hit bumps on speed humps when im driving too fast awesome for cornering.

If you compress your springs my opinion of handling will improve but i wouldnt go too far as the spring rate and relative travel will remain similar meaning you may be strinking bumpstops regularly. Not really a problem in speedbump situations but i wouldnt want it to happen under hard cornering. Also the springs might start binding or whatever its called when they hit themselves (completely compressed)

Maybe see if the spring can be hardened cheaply through shot peening to stiffen it further meaning ultimate handling with the low as centre of gravity and appropriate spring rates. Also it'll look way better.

I'm 110% with Chisholm on this one.

Suspension setup is more or less a science now lol. Its not just about stiff as hell springs and a low centre of gravity. If you believe this you're simply naive. :nuts:

Everybody has a different opinion on what good handling is, but ultimately i believe that when a car is defined as 'good handling', it is neutral in handling (or close to it, with more bias to oversteer). A good neutral handling car can be controlled through a corner with throttle and braking, using as little steering effort as required.

You can't just throw on a stiff set of springs, some swaybars, and lower your car. You need to consider many things, ie, wheel rate (not spring rate, this is the actual rate @ the wheel. 2 different cars with different spring rates can have the exact same wheel rate), dynamic suspension angles (castor, toe/ scrub radius, etc etc), suspension member geometry, damping, tyres, steering, theres too much to mention. Its about achieving a balance between front and rear roll stiffness.

You stiffen your springs too much with poorly set damping, and you'll get a disasterous mix of wheel hop and bump steer, if you touch the 'slightest' road imperfection on a turn.

Centre of gravity means nothing if your tyres cant maintain good contact on the road during cornering.

Shortening the unloaded length of the spring will substantially raise its rate, if other characteristics are not changed to match.

Just to repeat what Chisholm said, its a tradeoff between handling and ride comfort.

Imho, its not worth it.

all my tyres are sitting in the guards and I have 20" rims and I am yet to meet anyone that doesn't think that my car's handling is the bomb so yes there is a away to dump ur ride onto the ground and not compromise on handling and actually improve it.

having said this i have driven a car that has compressed springs and stock shockies and it wasn't that bad.. still better than stock in my opinion.

all my tyres are sitting in the guards and I have 20" rims and I am yet to meet anyone that doesn't think that my car's handling is the bomb so yes there is a away to dump ur ride onto the ground and not compromise on handling and actually improve it.

having said this i have driven a car that has compressed springs and stock shockies and it wasn't that bad.. still better than stock in my opinion.

Probably because you havent come close to finding the limits of the car yet.

all my tyres are sitting in the guards and I have 20" rims and I am yet to meet anyone that doesn't think that my car's handling is the bomb so yes there is a away to dump ur ride onto the ground and not compromise on handling and actually improve it.

having said this i have driven a car that has compressed springs and stock shockies and it wasn't that bad.. still better than stock in my opinion.

you sir have never been in a car that handles well if you think your car's "the bomb". being able to turn into the main street at 45km/h instead of 30km/h is not "good" handling.....

Probably because you havent come close to finding the limits of the car yet.

Always been a science. Millions of adjustments for each track to grab milliseconds. Then redesigned to bring comfort to your boring family car.
We are talking a suitable street set up with many varying surfaces for looks and handling.

Even aftermarket springs are soft. My mates light RWD cars are riding on coilovers and any bumpy roads still have grip although they are stiff as. Yes the dampening is right.
Now compressing soft springs i fail to see how it will significantly worsen the handling and i believe the lower centre of gravity with a good set of shockies will at least brake even and itll look better which is why i believe we're having this discussion.
With other minor mods youve mentioned any grip bias would be eliminated anyway unless hitting extremities at speed like pot holes etc.

Every production race car i've seen bar rally cars sit with large light weight wheels with very little guard clearance. Im not saying thats all there is too it but its just not going to ruin handling unless your constantly hitting bumpstops. Ideally get that centre of g to the line of action from the wheels.

When all tyres are in contact centre of gravity is the major factor determining lateral grip.

Also matt neither have you. Really in the big picture there's minor difference between your "performance cars" and ralliarts which are apt for a production car. But you added alot to the discussion by purely having a crack at someone else.
Eg never been in it but exoskeletal light weight sitting very low with alot of tweaked settings. Would run 11's/12's (with 125hpatw) and would piss on pretty much any motorbike on any track that has turns

all my tyres are sitting in the guards and I have 20" rims and I am yet to meet anyone that doesn't think that my car's handling is the bomb so yes there is a away to dump ur ride onto the ground and not compromise on handling and actually improve it.

having said this i have driven a car that has compressed springs and stock shockies and it wasn't that bad.. still better than stock in my opinion.
:bowrofl: The people who have ridden in your car have never been in a proper handling car then. Throwing some coilovers on a Magna with 20" chrome rims with a 30 profile sidewall does not a good handling car make. Chrisholm is right. The fact is you can't lower your car exponentially and expect it to ride well, or handle well. Coilovers are for the track, not for the street... These kind of threads make my head hurt - just like that other thread with everyone posting how low their car is. :nuts:

Just to comment on what Gotrice said too. Ralliarts are set up well from the factory with their spring rate and the koni reds are matched to them. You can't go and change the suspension and/or the wheels and expect it to handle the same, or anywhere near it.

What I can't fathom is how people think a spring is going to perform the same after you compress it... It still has the same spring rate just less travel, so you're just going to bottom out that inch or two easier when you're pushing it.

Springs were never designed to be compressed... think about it.

What I can't fathom is how people think a spring is going to perform the same after you compress it... It still has the same spring rate just less travel, so you're just going to bottom out that inch or two easier when you're pushing it.



yur but thats what im saying it might bottom out on speed humps (or you could alter driving around them) but if it isnt a major change it should still be fine for cornering. My springs have never bottomed out while cornering hard. Question is will they if they were compressed another inch.

Springs were designed to have a level of comfort which i dont really care for.

The other thing you might want to think about is that the effect of dropping a car too far without correcting the camber is rapid tyre wear...

My car has superlows compressed 1.5inchs lower. They have been done for two years. It is a little bumpy but that has a lot to do with it being dumped on its **** on 20s and the standard shocks still in it.. after doing the springs and putting the sway bars in it handles like a freaken dream and now stops like you wouldnt believe..:)

Even aftermarket springs are soft. My mates light RWD cars are riding on coilovers and any bumpy roads still have grip although they are stiff as. Yes the dampening is right.

Irrelevant to the discussion but nevertheless, You mates car is (keyword!) "LIGHTWEIGHT". A magna is not. You didnt really listen to what i said about wheel rates did you.... so i'll repeat myself. 2 completely different cars, can have completely different spring rates, yet still achieve the same rate at the wheel. Your mates car doesnt need to be heavily sprung.



Now compressing soft springs i fail to see how it will significantly worsen the handling and i believe the lower centre of gravity with a good set of shockies will at least brake even and itll look better which is why i believe we're having this discussion.
With other minor mods youve mentioned any grip bias would be eliminated anyway unless hitting extremities at speed like pot holes etc.

And what if he did happen to hit a pothole at speed and the spring came unseated because it didnt have the correct preload. Since when did shockies come into this discussion... the OP mentioned nothing about changing them, only compressing springs. As for looks, thats what we've all been saying... its looks vs handling. Pick one.



Every production race car i've seen bar rally cars sit with large light weight wheels with very little guard clearance. Im not saying thats all there is too it but its just not going to ruin handling unless your constantly hitting bumpstops. Ideally get that centre of g to the line of action from the wheels.

When all tyres are in contact centre of gravity is the major factor determining lateral grip.

*Sigh*..... Look, the reason they can lower their cars is because they are able to easily adjust their wheel centreline angles. On your everyday magna you cant. SOooo.... by lowering your car without changing other settings, you're changing your roll centre and in most cases making it worse than factory. If you dont understand the theory behind this, simply keep quiet.



Also matt neither have you. Really in the big picture there's minor difference between your "performance cars" and ralliarts which are apt for a production car.
No see, matts suspension has been tuned to suit 'his' driving preferences... a ralliart has not had this done.

Does this mean a ralliart will beat a touring car on a track?

What I can't fathom is how people think a spring is going to perform the same after you compress it... It still has the same spring rate just less travel.

Wrong! Changing any physical characteristic of a spring 'WILL' change its rate!

Also matt neither have you. Really in the big picture there's minor difference between your "performance cars" and ralliarts which are apt for a production car. But you added alot to the discussion by purely having a crack at someone else.
Eg never been in it but exoskeletal light weight sitting very low with alot of tweaked settings. Would run 11's/12's (with 125hpatw) and would piss on pretty much any motorbike on any track that has turns

you have no clues. a ralliart is not a sports car, its a family sedan with a couple spoilers aimed at the mid-life crisis 50yr olds who want to think they look cool. Saying there are only minor differences between one and a purpose built sports car just shows your ignorance. 50-50 weight distribution is a pretty major differenece that affects the way a car handles, RWD another major difference...I know my car handles well i've had 2 reputable track car builders tell me so. The fact my car came from Kei Office (look them up) in japan and is fitted out with oversized swaybars/strutbraces, adjustable coilovers and still has all the race harness mounts says a little about the cars history and its capabilities. but dont take my word for it, ask anyone whose been in it.

:bowrofl: The people who have ridden in your car have never been in a proper handling car then. Throwing some coilovers on a Magna with 20" chrome rims with a 30 profile sidewall does not a good handling car make. Chrisholm is right. The fact is you can't lower your car exponentially and expect it to ride well, or handle well. Coilovers are for the track, not for the street... These kind of threads make my head hurt - just like that other thread with everyone posting how low their car is. :nuts:

Just to comment on what Gotrice said too. Ralliarts are set up well from the factory with their spring rate and the koni reds are matched to them. You can't go and change the suspension and/or the wheels and expect it to handle the same, or anywhere near it.


yes mate nothing can compare to ur evo and how good it is ok. there s that what ur ego needs to hear??

however we aren't talking about race cars and cars that handle well we are talking about magna's and my comparison was made in relation to magna's.

I know my car would handle better if I had some 18's with exceptionally good rubber, orthe original enkei's, however if u had taken the time to read what i actually wrote instead of just saying useless **** like u did then you would realise i said, even with the 20's that do compromise the handling.

agreed I have not pushed my car to the limits, I push to a degree which I class as being safe, some still think its crazy however unless you have driven with me then you wouldn't know.

how bout u all read what the guy is tryin to say before posting all this crap.

is he talking about racing his car at a competitive level or is he talking about making his car look good (up to personal opinion some like it some don't get the **** over it people want low cars its up to them) and being ok to drive around the street?

IMHO if you want a car that had awesom handling go and buy a Mini Cooper or an EVO or a Lotus Elite.
If your wondering if there will be a noticable difference compressing your aftermarket springs on the Street. Then yes there will be a difference however there are lots and lots of people out there in magna's with compressed Superlows and I doubt they regret compressing them.

So how about we all grow up and get back to reality.

**to those of you who hit up the track on a regular basis, ie. Chisholm, etc. I would really like you to take my car around the track (obviously not with the 20" rims). I'm not saying its the best there is. I just want someone that frequents the track to give me their opinion, I know the improvement for the street, just want an opinion compared to your car and mine.

I had the stock VRX springs reset in the 380 for a lower ride height and i wouldnt recommend it. Because the spring softened and had a lower height it used to punch the bumpstops hard and often. It didnt handle better so really it was a total waste of money. Thats why i went back to King superlows in the front. But really, believe it or not i reckon the car handled better without me touching the suspension. When it was lowered (on Kings) it turned into a corner more kart like but understeered earlier and wasnt as adjustable with trailing throttle. So if you want handling stick with your current set up. It will only go backwards if you reset the springs.

My 2 cents.

all my tyres are sitting in the guards and I have 20" rims and I am yet to meet anyone that doesn't think that my car's handling is the bomb so yes there is a away to dump ur ride onto the ground and not compromise on handling and actually improve it.

having said this i have driven a car that has compressed springs and stock shockies and it wasn't that bad.. still better than stock in my opinion.

Your original post was this. ^

How is that comparing your cars handling to other Magnas? Where do you say that your 20's compromise your handling? In fact, you are saying your car handles well by "not compromising handling while still dumping your car to the ground, and improving handling"?

To answer the original post. Don't compress your springs. It's a very bad idea.

Don't compress your springs. It's a very bad idea.

Thank you!! Finally..... :P

you have no clues. a ralliart is not a sports car, its a family sedan with a couple spoilers aimed at the mid-life crisis 50yr olds who want to think they look cool. Saying there are only minor differences between one and a purpose built sports car just shows your ignorance. 50-50 weight distribution is a pretty major differenece that affects the way a car handles, RWD another major difference...I know my car handles well i've had 2 reputable track car builders tell me so. The fact my car came from Kei Office (look them up) in japan and is fitted out with oversized swaybars/strutbraces, adjustable coilovers and still has all the race harness mounts says a little about the cars history and its capabilities. but dont take my word for it, ask anyone whose been in it.

thats awesome sick bro.
I never called a ralliart a sports car but thanks for that.
I never said your car didnt handle well but you're doing pretty well.
I'm pretty sure i know how much better it would handle; a front heavy fwd isnt the best platform to start with but i didnt say any of that.
I just mentioned you were a tool for boasting and ripping on another member.
Maybe with such a good set up and some experience with a well done car and experienced people you couldve added something useful but no.


Irrelevant to the discussion but nevertheless, You mates car is (keyword!) "LIGHTWEIGHT". A magna is not. You didnt really listen to what i said about wheel rates did you.... so i'll repeat myself. 2 completely different cars, can have completely different spring rates, yet still achieve the same rate at the wheel. Your mates car doesnt need to be heavily sprung.


Its not irrelevent. We're not talking car v car were talking same car different settings. So i said with other alterations the handling could be salvagable if it needed to be with compression. Ie correcting dampening and camber etc.

And i pretty much agree with you on every technical point i just think your outlook is much more conservative than mine.


And what if he did happen to hit a pothole at speed and the spring came unseated because it didnt have the correct preload. Since when did shockies come into this discussion... the OP mentioned nothing about changing them, only compressing springs. As for looks, thats what we've all been saying... its looks vs handling. Pick one.


What if someone threw a fridge through his windscreen at 100km/hr. Its a risk we can and most roads you're fine on if you just use common sense.
Also i disagree with the looks v handling. Change settings to come to a comprimise between the two. Yes there'll be a bias either way.


*Sigh*..... Look, the reason they can lower their cars is because they are able to easily adjust their wheel centreline angles. On your everyday magna you cant. SOooo.... by lowering your car without changing other settings, you're changing your roll centre and in most cases making it worse than factory. If you dont understand the theory behind this, simply keep quiet.

Yes i know that. I do understand; what i've been trying to say i doubt the changes from the compression will affect such settings to a significant extent.


No see, matts suspension has been tuned to suit 'his' driving preferences... a ralliart has not had this done.

Does this mean a ralliart will beat a touring car on a track?

i pretty much cant see what point you're trying to make.
i was only saying Matt's car started out like a ralliart (basically) and has been modified accordingly. Not like its designed purely for the track to hold one driver. Like i said to him all he did was rip on another member when didnt add anything by the sounds all he's done is driven a faster car.
Touring cars are the ****.

www.internetisseriousbusiness.com

you sir have never been in a car that handles well if you think your car's "the bomb". being able to turn into the main street at 45km/h instead of 30km/h is not "good" handling.....


gee i ripped into him hard. poor bloke. *hands out a box of kleenex*

What if someone threw a fridge through his windscreen at 100km/hr. Its a risk we can and most roads you're fine on if you just use common sense.

Wtf man.... :nuts:


This is serious, if he hits a pothole and the spring unseats, it could be dangerous. A spring thats too short, placed into a stock strut wont have the correct preload (if any). Sometimes you dont have any choice but to drive over a pothole (no room to swerve).

With todays roads theres a good chance of that happening too. You dont know what conditions he drives under. He may be a country driver or pass on unsealed/dirt roads often.

its funny to see how quickly people who all dont drive magnas anymore seem to know everything and something that a magna owner says about their personal experiences in their cars are totally wrong. :gtfo: i say

its funny to see how quickly people who all dont drive magnas anymore seem to know everything and something that a magna owner says about their personal experiences in their cars are totally wrong. :gtfo: i say

Thats discrimination.... 1 week ban. :P lol

Its because people are trying to say that lowering the centre of gravity and having stiff springs is the definitive way to great handling.

i took the springs out of my magna and welded up the shocks...

it then handled like a go kart :P


now as great as that is on a super flat smooth track, now immagine driving a go kart don the st to the shops and over speed humps and train tracks etc...

gee i ripped into him hard. poor bloke. *hands out a box of kleenex*

Nah it's condiscending. I personally hate it.

Because you drive a faster car doesn't make you an expert. At this stage im not sure that you bought your car the way it is too.


Wtf man....


This is serious, if he hits a pothole and the spring unseats, it could be dangerous. A spring thats too short, placed into a stock strut wont have the correct preload (if any). Sometimes you dont have any choice but to drive over a pothole (no room to swerve).

With todays roads theres a good chance of that happening too. You dont know what conditions he drives under. He may be a country driver or pass on unsealed/dirt roads often.

yeah my humour.

Just saying i dont think it's going to happen. I've never hit a pot hole in the apex of a fast corner so i take my chances; know what i mean.

Yeah i don't know the conditions that why im just adding my opinion. As always it's up to him to do what he will with his car.

Note you consider comfort as a factor in handling. I dont:)

Note good handling doesnt have to equal horrible ride quality (though obviously worse than OEM). For e.g I am going to be running over double the spring rate of the King lows (185lbs vs 400), and something like 4x at the rear.

However I am fairly confident my setup will be far more comfortable than guys running around on chopped/excessively low springs. Why? Because my dampers are VASTLY superior to cheapo aftermarket or OEM, and valved correctly for my springs. You;d be surprised just how much springrate you can run, with decent dampers that are valved correctly for teh springs.

Note good handling doesnt have to equal horrible ride quality (though obviously worse than OEM). For e.g I am going to be running over double the spring rate of the King lows (185lbs vs 400), and something like 4x at the rear.



It's going to be pretty interesting to hear what you think of driving the car on the street after you've done this....
I hear what you're saying about dampers but the fact remains that 400lb springs are only controlled by the dampers. They will still give you a sore **** lol

However, more interesting will be what you find and achieve on the track.

Hrmm... How to bring peace and calm to a thread before it gets closed... :think:

i believe the lower centre of gravity with a good set of shockies will at least brake even and itll look better which is why i believe we're having this discussion.


However apart from undesirable dynanmic geometry changes, excessive lowering without appropriate changes to geometry/setup also has the nasty effect of moving your roll centres in undesirable ways.

Have a look at the anti-lift kit, what it does is lower the the roll centre properly (desirable), without actually lowering ride height.

Basically setting up a car for good handling is all about lowering the roll centres in a desirable way, which is not as simple as just dropping rideheight with springs. Hence for a street car without major modications to suspension, excessive lowering is not the way to go about it, though a poorly controlled stiff ride can feel "good" when not pushing hard.

Unfortunantely even "good" dampers don't work very well if the wrong springs are being used, it's all about the right spring matched to dampers valved for (or at least reasoonably close to) them.

ill just add this to the fire, with all the **** storm thats gotten more about defending ones opinion to actually answering the question at hand...

I had king super lows on my Rada, IF i was to 'reset' the rear springs anymore, they would NOT seat at full suspension height. Curerntly super lows on the rear from kings can be put on the strut BY HAND no spring compression required, that couldnt be done by hand, another 10mm of compression the without force applied to the strut, the spring would no be captive in its seat (read: ****ing dangerous)

the fronts could made be reset 20mm lower tops before the spring would no longer ramain captive (also read: ****ing dangerous)

the **** storm..
Are you referring to me? :bowrofl:




I had king super lows on my Rada, IF i was to 'reset' the rear springs anymore, they would NOT seat at full suspension height. Curerntly super lows on the rear from kings can be put on the strut BY HAND no spring compression required, that couldnt be done by hand, another 10mm of compression the without force applied to the strut, the spring would no be captive in its seat (read: ****ing dangerous)

the fronts could made be reset 20mm lower tops before the spring would no longer ramain captive (also read: ****ing dangerous)

Thanks for sharing that.
Thats exactly what i was mentioning about spring preloads....

I maintain the best bang-for-buck setup for street driving are King Lows (or perhaps Lovells, don't know their rates) with koni yellows. The off-the-shelf valving in the konis is pretty much spot-on for the King lows (185lbs/inch front). Though it is easy to dial in way too much rebound damping with the knob, bump/compression is not non-adjustable.

If you hell bent on having such a lower ride height, that's fine, just be aware of the fact you are sacrificing alot in the handling department.


all my tyres are sitting in the guards and I have 20" rims and I am yet to meet anyone that doesn't think that my car's handling is the bomb so yes there is a away to dump ur ride onto the ground and not compromise on handling and actually improve it.

having said this i have driven a car that has compressed springs and stock shockies and it wasn't that bad.. still better than stock in my opinion.

Having coilovers with matched springs and dampers I'm sure helps mask the problems with dumping it to some extent, and must feel a hell of alot better than cars dumped with choppered springs and OEM shocks. However I'm willing to bet my life you'll find it handles much better if you raise it back up to say 50mm below stock height.

Not having a go at you personally, but to be blunt people don't know what good handling/suspension is until they've experienced it.

A car with coilovers dumped on its **** is gonna feel a hell of alot better than budget cars with suspension that cost $50 at the factory. But sit/drive in a car with sorted "good" suspension such as a well-matched custom bilstein setup or even quality OEM setup in something like an M3, and you'll see the gap is absolutely enormous., especially sitting in one going around a track.

In your case, your original koni reds are quite good for a OEM setup, and probably faster around a track than your coilovers winded down to "dumpage' height. Though at a good height I'm sure the hotbits would make for a quicker/better setup. Also with your coilovers at minimum height, don't be surprised if you find they need to be rebuilt in not too long, as the dampers may be bottoming out on bigger bumps.

So no offence, but if people sitting in your car think the handling is "the bomb", it's because they havn't experienced properly good suspension/handling. The fact is without making major changes, dumping a car is always sacrificing on-the-limit handling, though it may feel "good" at 7/10ths.

These days suspension/chassis setup is basically say 80% exact science, 20% personal preference/trial and error. A **** setup is going to handle ****, there's no way around it.

Basically the keys are:
-A matched Spring/damper suitable to the conditions/purpose
-Eliminiate/reduce "bad" dynamic changes in geometry under load.
-Suitable static geometry to begin with.
-Desirable roll centres -e.g Front roll centre generally should be roughly 1/2 or 1/3 the height of the rear roll centre. Under suspension movement the roll centres should move in the same direction, staying in correct relation to each other.
-Low centre of gravity - not the same thing as roll centres. Lowering this is good, but only as long as the above factors aren't negatively influenced - not dumping it on it's **** without appropriate changes.

I maintain the best bang-for-buck setup for street driving are King Lows (or perhaps Lovells, don't know their rates) with koni yellows. The off-the-shelf valving in the konis is pretty much spot-on for the King lows (185lbs/inch front). Though it is easy to dial in way too much rebound damping with the knob, bump/compression is not non-adjustable.

If you hell bent on having such a lower ride height, that's fine, just be aware of the fact you are sacrificing alot in the handling department.



Having coilovers with matched springs and dampers I'm sure helps mask the problems with dumping it to some extent, and must feel a hell of alot better than cars dumped with choppered springs and OEM shocks. However I'm willing to bet my life you'll find it handles much better if you raise it back up to say 50mm below stock height.

Not having a go at you personally, but to be blunt people don't know what good handling/suspension is until they've experienced it.

A car with coilovers dumped on its **** is gonna feel a hell of alot better than budget cars with suspension that cost $50 at the factory. But sit/drive in a car with sorted "good" suspension such as a well-matched custom bilstein setup or even quality OEM setup in something like an M3, and you'll see the gap is absolutely enormous., especially sitting in one going around a track.

In your case, your original koni reds are quite good for a OEM setup, and probably faster around a track than your coilovers winded down to "dumpage' height. Though at a good height I'm sure the hotbits would make for a quicker/better setup. Also with your coilovers at minimum height, don't be surprised if you find they need to be rebuilt in not too long, as the dampers may be bottoming out on bigger bumps.

So no offence, but if people sitting in your car think the handling is "the bomb", it's because they havn't experienced properly good suspension/handling. The fact is without making major changes, dumping a car is always sacrificing on-the-limit handling, though it may feel "good" at 7/10ths.

These days suspension/chassis setup is basically say 80% exact science, 20% personal preference/trial and error. A **** setup is going to handle ****, there's no way around it.

Basically the keys are:
-A matched Spring/damper suitable to the conditions/purpose
-Eliminiate/reduce "bad" dynamic changes in geometry under load.
-Suitable static geometry to begin with.
-Desirable roll centres -e.g Front roll centre generally should be roughly 1/2 or 1/3 the height of the rear roll centre. Under suspension movement the roll centres should move in the same direction, staying in correct relation to each other.
-Low centre of gravity - not the same thing as roll centres. Lowering this is good, but only as long as the above factors aren't negatively influenced - not dumping it on it's **** without appropriate changes.


I agree with everything your saying and FYI,, although my car is low, without the ralliart kit then its not really that low. I still have along way to go before they are extremely low.
adding to this... my car was set up by suspension specialists I didn't get them installed and then take it home and dump it on its ass... they spent hours putting it up and down and testing how it all was I doubt they would make it so that handling was sorse than before..

I have driven more cars than you think. and by far driving an Audi R8 was the best experience of my life.. and by far is the best car I have ever driven. agreed I did not push it past 7/10ths but really if it wasn't your $300k car would you?

and the handling of the M3 is unbelievable for a stock car however you can't go comparing these sort of cars to a magna. I compare my magna to any other magna. and yeah i may not have said im not comparing it to every other car.. its a magna, im sorry but we all have to wake up and realise that no matter how far you take suspension mods there is no way it will be the best handling car around...

although my car is low, without the ralliart kit then its not really that low...

Body kits change ride height now? :confused: :nuts:

Body kits change ride height now? :confused: :nuts:

well im limited,, the ralliart front bar is 70mm off the ground.. if it wasn't for the kit then it wouldn't look seriously dumped..

if you don't think a body kit makes a car look lower then I dunno what rock u came outta...

well im limited,, the ralliart front bar is 70mm off the ground.. if it wasn't for the kit then it wouldn't look seriously dumped..

if you don't think a body kit makes a car look lower then I dunno what rock u came outta...

Sorry that was my bad, i apollogise for that one. I was referring to suspension ride height, not ground clearance. Shouldve been more clear.

And yeah thats a good point raised there, a better way to make your car look lower is by fitting body components. Much better to do than physically lowering it.

well im limited,, the ralliart front bar is 70mm off the ground.. if it wasn't for the kit then it wouldn't look seriously dumped..

if you don't think a body kit makes a car look lower then I dunno what rock u came outta...

:stoopid:

My ralliart front SPLITTER is 70mm off the ground...

Currently Im running Koni Red's and Compressed ralliart springs [compressed 1.5"] and basically when i get the chance ill be going custom springs and maybe raising it a fraction and running a heavyer spring rate...

It rides just nice... but I really think it needs t be stiffer... especially in the rear...

Compressing springs will change the rate of the spring... to god only knows what. :disgusted

Imho, not a good idea.
i agree with that

Ideally get that centre of g to the line of action from the wheels.

When all tyres are in contact centre of gravity is the major factor determining lateral grip.



BINGO
the old group C race cars had their lower wishbones horizontal and in most cases the hangers had to be modified to they could.

once your wishbones (control arms) start pointing upwards instead of being flat you run into fairly major handling problems like tramlining or skipping across bumps.

even lovells advertise their low springs as performance enhancements and their super lows as visual enhancements.

but i honestly believe you can't have a car that handles like it's on rails that is comfortable to drive.

put it another way
go for a drive in a 735i beemer
then go for a drive in ANY M series (M3-5-6)