I finished my post and the thread was deleted http://forums.eis.net.au/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif Pasted from there;

You guys are missing the point.

It is like replacing worn old spark plugs with brand new iridiums and noticing a improvement, and then attributing the improvement to the iridium plugs, not the fact that the old ones were just worn out.

If you want to give me some scientific reason why changing a few earth straps helps a car idle, feel free. If anyone has noticed an improvement by fitting a new earthing kit, then it is purely because the stock fitted items were making poor contact.

Don't even get me started on earth loops from excessive earthing, or the fact that a car runs off the alternator when driving, not the battery so shouldn't need any significant earth at all once cranked :doubt: Didn't think of that did you. A motor and car at full song (aircon, fans, lights, coil and injection duty 100%, etc) runs about 20A 12V DC, which could be sunk by a single 6mm^2 cable.

If you want to test this, go and pull them off, clean the contacting area and ensure the stock ones are servicable and put them back on.

I will argue, because this is my area of highly QUALIFIED expertise. Constructive critisism is welcome.

for the sake of civilised discussion :P

what bout the people running large stereos... i'm sucking power out with a 0awg cable, shouldn't i be returning it with a similarly sized cable?

Yerp running an earthing kit and 0 gauge on my stereo with almost a few kw of power RMS.. Couldnt give two hoots about performance gains

I finished my post and the thread was deleted http://forums.eis.net.au/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif Pasted from there;

You guys are missing the point.

It is like replacing worn old spark plugs with brand new iridiums and noticing a improvement, and then attributing the improvement to the iridium plugs, not the fact that the old ones were just worn out.

If you want to give me some scientific reason why changing a few earth straps helps a car idle, feel free. If anyone has noticed an improvement by fitting a new earthing kit, then it is purely because the stock fitted items were making poor contact.

Don't even get me started on earth loops from excessive earthing, or the fact that a car runs off the alternator when driving, not the battery so shouldn't need any significant earth at all once cranked :doubt: Didn't think of that did you. A motor and car at full song (aircon, fans, lights, coil and injection duty 100%, etc) runs about 20A 12V DC, which could be sunk by a single 6mm^2 cable.

If you want to test this, go and pull them off, clean the contacting area and ensure the stock ones are servicable and put them back on.

I will argue, because this is my area of highly QUALIFIED expertise. Constructive critisism is welcome.

Agreed. Although some cars may not have a completely suffucient earthing system from factory? (not saying theres any that dont, but its a possibility)... maybe cheaper built cars?
Not that they dont do fine the way they are, but some improvement maybe can be had.. although nothing related to engine performance. Only electrical components. Eg, power windows might not strain as hard to wind etc...

Umm, just a question. With the alternator, isnt it earthed through the body of the alternator > engine > earth strap > battery? so it'd still need a decent earth wouldnt it? Seeing as how we know better these days, that conventional current flow is not true. :confused:

With a first post like that you already know it all so the skin on my fingers shall stay there./

I was also sceptical about this. After reading that magazine article which was posted up some time ago, I decided I would experiment. I'm an Electrician by trade (not Auto) so I brought home some 10mm and a neutral bar and some lugs and mucked about for an hour or so.

I went from both heads, alternator bracket, a point behind the thermostat, LH engine mount, and the firewall to the neutral bar, then from the neutral bar to the battery earth.

The first thing I noticed was the engine cranked much faster and the stereo sound quality improved, also stronger torque around the 1500 to 2000 rpm range. I must point out that I did clean up the existing earths at the same time (although I would hope that all would be ok on a 2005 car) I also have not removed the earths for a back to back comparison, like I did with CAI.

I was thinking about running the extra earths temporarily through some sort of contactor that I could switch while I was driving to see if I could notice any seat of the pants difference, but even then, without a Dyno report, nothing is proven.

Sigh

Here we go again... And you wonder why every thread gets deleted on this and people get annoyed at you. You have your opinion and other people have theirs, you will never change and most likely they wont either as they have actually tried the kits and like them (whether there is any difference of not). Get over it and drop the topic, you are only going to start another mud fight which will get on the mods and everyone else's nerves.

Waits for yet ANOTHER thread to be deleted...

The only real way to tell is by checking resistance, and performing volt drop tests.

Hmmmm..... :)

I had some disagreements (on AMC) when I commented on the EK, that it only improved the cold start idle, by being below 2000 instead of 2500+, which is of course good (it's cold start after all).
I was met with "accusations" that my car was not ok and that I had this and that sensor dysfunctional etc. This all from ppl who have never even seen my car - let alone inspected it.
Regardless, that change in idle alone was sufficient for me to keep the EK.
But in other cases, apparently EK made big diffs..... perhaps cos the initial earthing was crpa. Where as mine wasn't cos I check on things like that.
And also run checks on all the sensors occasionally.

Personal health myth:
Take extra C-Vitamin if your're tired.
Yeps, it will work - if your tiredness is caused by lack of C-Vitamin. Otherwise, sleep more.... :)

There are plenty of myths and beliefs around for many situations. :cool:

My opinion is that the kit costs $95, and Barry was kind enough to install it for me for a small fee, I noticed an improvement in idle and also the lights on the dash/climate control etc didnt dim 1/2 as much as they did when the headlights were on without the kit.

So for $95 I thought it was a nice cheap fix, sure if the it was $500 then I probably wouldnt be singing the same tune about it, but ffs its $95..........

These comments all sound like testamonies of how well the 10 minute chesternator workout works. Very little credible results yet sorry guys.

These comments all sound like testamonies of how well the 10 minute chesternator workout works. Very little credible results yet sorry guys.
Please show us where your credible results are?

Instead of paying out on people who have had positive gains.. How about putting those quick fingers of yours to some use by disproving the claims of those above?

Until then, you have an opinion and so does everyone else.

I'm not gunna beat my own drum about my qualifications, suffice to say my field is electronics, and has been for 30 years.

The simple fact is that a car is a closed DC circuit, the amount of current going in, is the same as that coming out (- a smidge for heat loss etc).

All parts of the circuit with current flowing in must have an equal current capacity earth return.

If you have a poor or insuficient earth return the circuit will not perform to its ultimate capacity.

One of the biggest problem causers in cars is dirty, corroded or poorly connected earth returns. Age and wear will do that.

As long as the return path is of equal current carring capacity to the supply path, and all connections are clean and tight, the circuit will have no problems.


Moral: Make sure you have good clean earths, ensure all circuits have return paths (i.e. your engine, tranny, chassis, body and battery negative are all properly electrically connected together) and current will flow just fine.


Adding huge cables beyond that point will have no effect whatsoever.

Now dont make me flick the lights; and play nice ......... mmkay:)

I didn't notice any difference after putting in a GK. Car still idles crap and electrics are as "good" as they were before. Only reason it's still there is that I'm too lazy to remove.

looks like the scores at 2-0.

These comments all sound like testamonies of how well the 10 minute chesternator workout works. Very little credible results yet sorry guys.
You had a sook about this back in 2004,

Here are some more credible results for you.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=149682&postcount=11

At the end of the day having better earths and wiring has more benefits than negatives. Even if it means your electric windows go up a bit faster or your headlights are a tad brighter.

In audio there are heaps of gains and it's dangerous skimping on wiring when you are talking about high power consumption.

In SPL the difference is black and white. Numbers don't lie.

...All parts of the circuit with current flowing in must have an equal current capacity earth return...


Agree with this totally (and everything else in there)

But the stock ground is say 2 x 8 gauge? And the same on the positive side. This has been put in place to deal with a stock setup. As soon as you add any large accessories onto your car you need to start thinking about increasing the size your electrical system.

I agree the best fixes are the easiest, clean connections, sanded back to metal, against solid locations with short grounds. But the size of every cable should be based on the max current capacity of the load it is running. And the size of the total ground should also be the size of the max current capacity of the entire car. AC/lights/stereo etc.

As you increase the amount of accessories you increase the size of the cabling - just basic electronics.

And for a 'civilised discussion' I'm very close to closing this one for trolling TC.
Put forward some sensible arguments and some calculations beyond saying you know it all and your word is gospel. (I am yet to see anything to suggest you know the concepts of electronics.)

If anyone has noticed an improvement by fitting a new earthing kit, then it is purely because the stock fitted items were making poor contact.

Wouldn't this make a credible enough reason to change the earths?

Not this again. I get the feeling that this thread will suffer the same fate as the 'airplane running on a treadmill' one did... :doubt:


Wouldn't this make a credible enough reason to change the earths?

No, this would be a credible enough reason to clean up the existing earths.

Wouldn't this make a credible enough reason to change the earths?

Would be reason to clean them, not replace with cables that will carry hundred of amps.


Not this again. I get the feeling that this thread will suffer the same fate as the 'airplane running on a treadmill' one did...

Massive logic deficit and a padlock?

That would be it lol

No, this would be a credible enough reason to clean up the existing earths.

Ahh, gotcha.

To be honest I don't really care, I'm never going to touch my earths. :D

The way I see it, cleaning up the earths should do a sufficient job, adding some more will just assist in any loss the stock cable may have.

Remeber your not gaining 5KW's, your restoring 5KW's that you used to have.

The way I see it, cleaning up the earths should do a sufficient job, adding some more will just assist in any loss the stock cable may have.

Remeber your not gaining 5KW's, your restoring 5KW's that you used to have.

It's not about gaining kws, its about improving simple things like smooth power windows, better idle, better audio system etcetc That is where people get it wrong, no-one is categorically claiming these are a performance mod.

It's not about gaining kws, its about improving simple things like smooth power windows, better idle, better audio system etcetc That is where people get it wrong, no-one is categorically claiming these are a performance mod.


Well put... if you dont like the idea... nobody is twisting your arm....

Hows the saying go? Have a spoonful of concrete......

You need a cup my friend! Mr turbo charade...
And for someone with alot to say youve gone quiet all of a sudden....:nuts:

I have said it before, but I like you heathyoung :)




At the end of the day having better earths and wiring has more benefits than negatives. Even if it means your electric windows go up a bit faster or your headlights are a tad brighter.

You really missed the point. The fact that there was a change means that the existing earths were not working properly.



In audio there are heaps of gains and it's dangerous skimping on wiring when you are talking about high power consumption.

In SPL the difference is black and white. Numbers don't lie.

That is something I will agree on, being a audio nut from way back.. Audio systems use much more current than an engine though dont they. Rate the cable for the application. High current = big cross section cable. An engine and car in general uses bugger all, so doesn't need big cable, it needs adiquatly sized (stock) in working order.

On the cranking side of things, there is no heat generated in the supply cable or earth, so cranking slower isn't a waste of energy.

I usually go quiet when I am at work by the way.

Bain what happen to your speel about closing the thread for trolling, thats not like me.

You are still not convincing me to run out to my car and rip the stuff out....
Personally i saw a need to replace because i have a small sound system, two amps running 4 speakers. Prolly not needed.

I noticed a difference straight away. from the moment it cranked and returned to idle.
No there was no power improvement that threw you back into the seat. But the car did run smoother...

Now i figured better spark due to the earth i put on the coil ground, yes it may have been ****e already. but hell do i care, all up it cost me about $45. for some cable, connections and a distribution block from jaycar...

Now why do you want to rant about what OTHER people are doing to thier OWN CARS?

I have read numerous articles going into thi.... Ah can't be stuffed talkin to a KNOW IT ALL, My 2c over and watching for a laugh now...

Now why do you want to rant about what OTHER people are doing to thier OWN CARS?

I have read numerous articles going into thi.... Ah can't be stuffed talkin to a KNOW IT ALL, My 2c over and watching for a laugh now...

Jason is an engineer, call him a know it all if you must, but he's letting people know that cleaning existing earths does the same job in a stock car as a kit that costs $95.

Make up your own mind.

just backing it up. in a stock car all you need to do is check the existing earths.

most people will prob notice some sort of improvement with the EK just because the stock earth cables arent ground properly. i noticed one of mine was just bolted over the paint.
so i went and fixed up that.

either way i thought what the heck and spent $95. i mean why not. was gonna get an amp soon, so i might as well help compensate for it.

all in all, some people will find that it may have helped, while others wouldn't have. but the earthing definately does not have any negative aspects to it.

and thats all there is to it. case closed.

I never really thought about checking the earths on my car until i read this thread. Might clean mine up and see if it fixes some strange interior light problems im having.

out of curiousity, does the stock system have enough earth if you had all the things cranking ie high beams, stereo up, aircon up full etc etc. ignoring dirty connections of the earths etc.

im assuming it would, i mean why would mitsu make a car so the earths arent capable.

out of curiousity, does the stock system have enough earth if you had all the things cranking ie high beams, stereo up, aircon up full etc etc. ignoring dirty connections of the earths etc.

im assuming it would, i mean why would mitsu make a car so the earths arent capable.

But they install crap brakes which work but are not what i would say is ideal. Its called budgeting.

But they install crap brakes which work but are not what i would say is ideal. Its called budgeting.


hahah yeh. true.
how funny would it be if they gave the vrx good earths, but no the ES model..bahahaha..

Brakes are a lot more expencive to upgrade compared to 30c worth of copper if it makes such a mirical difference.

Brakes are a lot more expencive to upgrade compared to 30c worth of copper if it makes such a mirical difference.

Copper prices are not mate cheap you know... Last time i looked they were hovering around $7~9 a kilo... not to mention flexable cables are more expensive!!

Besides I dont see what a bit of overkill on earthing can hurt...? I believe it is work the extra moneys...

EDIT: According to OLEX the current copper price is around $8 a kilo...

I got an earthing kit on the Bora. The car had a single roughly 8ga cable to earth the car which seemed just adequate considering what it has to run. When the stereo was installed there was a bit of noise in the system and considering there are wires everywhere, instead of checking the earths for every single powered item ( the front and rear diffs have therir own bloody ECU ) we upgraded the 8ga wire to a 0ga into 5x 4ga engine earthing kit.

In the end, noise gone, smoother idol, and with the bigger battery no lights dimming with over 750WRMS everyday with everything running. Power, pfft why would you install an earthing kit for that? Go get an air filter.

I got an earthing kit on the Bora. The car had a single roughly 8ga cable to earth the car which seemed just adequate considering what it has to run. When the stereo was installed there was a bit of noise in the system and considering there are wires everywhere, instead of checking the earths for every single powered item ( the front and rear diffs have therir own bloody ECU ) we upgraded the 8ga wire to a 0ga into 5x 4ga engine earthing kit.

In the end, noise gone, smoother idol, and with the bigger battery no lights dimming with over 750WRMS everyday with everything running. Power, pfft why would you install an earthing kit for that? Go get an air filter.

Exactly... Im all for earthing kits. I think they do thier job.

HAHAHA So TC... whats ya got to say now.... with all the people that think its not a waste of time, are we still :nuts: .

Like C'mon... have you tried this mod/addition?

I would almost put money on the fact any car can use this mod from FACTORY.

Car manufacturers are looking deeper and deeper to save money. i bet they dont even use copper in the earth starp anymore. its prolly stainless/mild steel nickel coated or some crap!

I can tell you fro a fact that copper is dearer than poison, with the asians buying up all the stocks that can be pulled from the ground... you should know this!

Plumbers are using stainless steel to do hot water pipes in houses because its CHEAPER! Not easier, takes longer to weld.

Inlet maniifolds are now god damn plastic FFS!!!

Well thats about 6c now... i suppose i will keep depositing money into this one when somthing pushes a button....:bowrofl:

You guys still havent got the point. The people who noticed improvements noticed it because the factory ones were suspect.

I have fit dozzens of motors to different cars, and had to make up earths on most occasions. I generally use 16mm^2 cable and the "triangle" layout.

Earth Post - Engine
Engine - Chassis
Chassis - Earth Post

It is a bit like a high tension plug lead. Standard ones work perfectly, but people with failed ones replace them with big thick ones and notice an increase in this and that and attribute it to the bigger leads, not the fact that the original item had failed.

Is it true that steel does not conduct electricity aswell as copper?

And STEEL earth straps ARE found on cars today, yes??

8c

Brakes are a lot more expencive to upgrade compared to 30c worth of copper if it makes such a mirical difference.

Truth is, if they can save money anywhere at all... they will. :doubt:

30c X however many hundreds of thousands of cars produced = a fair saving.

The silver straps are usually aluminium/silver alloy, like on aircraft and high quality electronics.

Some like my BMW have stainless braided straps which are great because they don't tend to oxidise under the contact patch after time. They don't conduct as well as copper, which is still better than most other metals.

The silver straps are usually aluminium/silver alloy, like on aircraft and high quality electronics.

Some like my BMW have stainless braided straps which are great because they don't tend to oxidise under the contact patch after time. They don't conduct as well as copper, which is still better than most other metals.
And you can't *** solder anything to them propperly *rips hair out* :rant:

you get my point though.... i get your point, at least accept it will help. Swallow, deep breath.... and start typing!:D

You guys still havent got the point. The people who noticed improvements noticed it because the factory ones were suspect.

I have fit dozzens of motors to different cars, and had to make up earths on most occasions. I generally use 16mm^2 cable and the "triangle" layout.

Earth Post - Engine
Engine - Chassis
Chassis - Earth Post

It is a bit like a high tension plug lead. Standard ones work perfectly, but people with failed ones replace them with big thick ones and notice an increase in this and that and attribute it to the bigger leads, not the fact that the original item had failed.

Dude I actually checked the factory earth and it was quite good. Tight as you like with no dirt what so ever. As I said with 50 billion ECU's in the car, it made a difference for the stereo. If there was no stereo, I would not have bothered. In the Magna I just replaced the factory earth with a bigger 4ga item.

You should have a chat to Marty at Fhrx studios. I'm sure the earthing kit helped cars like the civic which had 2x DD Z2's ( they take 2x 0ga power and earth :O )

i posted this up a while ago they tested a ralliart magna with earthing kite and voltage stabilizer they then put it on the dyno before and after and it made more power and Nm's, they used the ralliart magna as they said it is a good car for consistent dyno runs, it

went from 135fwkws to 140fwks
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p1.jpg
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p2.jpg
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p3.jpg

i posted this up a while ago they tested a ralliart magna with earthing kite and voltage stabilizer they then put it on the dyno before and after and it made more power and Nm's, they used the ralliart magna as they said it is a good car for consistent dyno runs, it

went from 135fwkws to 140fwks
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p1.jpg
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p2.jpg
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p3.jpg


Thankyou... i owe you a beer!

What was that??? i think it was TC choking.. haha:bowrofl:

If you go to "User CP" up the top and choose Buddy/Ignore lists, you can add TC to the ignore list, has worked for me for a while :)

i posted this up a while ago they tested a ralliart magna with earthing kite and voltage stabilizer they then put it on the dyno before and after and it made more power and Nm's, they used the ralliart magna as they said it is a good car for consistent dyno runs, it

went from 135fwkws to 140fwks
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p1.jpg
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p2.jpg
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p3.jpg

How many dyno runs did they do, in what engine conditions, with what ambient temperature....... :nuts:

Too many variables people.

I'm not saying that it didnt make more power, just saying that they maybe didnt contain much to backup the gain.

i posted this up a while ago they tested a ralliart magna with earthing kite and voltage stabilizer they then put it on the dyno before and after and it made more power and Nm's, they used the ralliart magna as they said it is a good car for consistent dyno runs, it

went from 135fwkws to 140fwks
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p1.jpg
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p2.jpg
http://web.aanet.com.au/naa/p3.jpg



How can a brand new car have an insuficiant earth strap from the engine to the body of the car. Why would mitsubishi, who at the time of the ralliart magna 2002 had 6 years of aftersales RnD not have spent the extra 3cents per car for an extra 8kw at the engine for bragging rights over ford and holden.

Imagine it mitsu marketed a 171kw VRX (Supercharged commo power) and an 188kw Ralliart magna old 5lt holden and ford power.

I reckon they would have, they dont have all those engineers twiddling there thumbs.

Why doesnt someone put extra earth points on there cars and do a before and after dyno. I'm wont, it's a blatent waste of money.

You really missed the point. The fact that there was a change means that the existing earths were not working properly.

TC - I think you are chasing you're tail a bit here. And I haven't missed any point as you are now arguing semantics and contradicting yourself.

Are you saying that with my power draw from my audio which is enough to run 0 gauge copper on the positive side. That I should now go and unplug my grounding kit as 2x8 guage stock grounds are sufficient?

I think somewhere there you have failed to prove that upgrading the grounds from stock has any ill effects, besides the price tag. And I think you'd have to be pretty silly to spend $95 on this, when you can make one yourself for next to nothing. My grounding kit was free and took no time to install. I also left the stock grounds there so there's no chance of saying it provides anything less than stock.

If you are arguing that in a stock setup you can just clean your grounds and achieve the same results then surely you are confirming that having good grounds is a good thing; Having a grounding kit provides a better ground than stock and therefore (ignoring the price) this is a positive modification.

Maybe you should just stop posting in here and let this sink to the bottom of the new posts before you dig yourself any deeper.

Or will the new argument be; there are better performance mods for $95 than a grounding kit.
Or the weight of a grounding kit will slow your car down by xxx.

The more things change...

i only posted the bit from the mag so you guys can read it. do i have one on my car, no. just an interesting read, Sounds to me as if the stabilizer is the thing that got any extra power if anything. but again don't have one so only know what i read.

If you are arguing that in a stock setup you can just clean your grounds and achieve the same results then surely you are confirming that having good grounds is a good thing; Having a grounding kit provides a better ground than stock and therefore (ignoring the price) this is a positive modification.

He's only arguing that for a stock car, clean and secure stock earths are sufficient, and upgrading them is a waste of time and money. He's already stated that if you're running a large sound system then you obviously need some larger earths.

He's only arguing that for a stock car, clean and secure stock earths are sufficient, and upgrading them is a waste of time and money. He's already stated that if you're running a large sound system then you obviously need some larger earths.
+1

Jason Broadhurst

+1

Jason Broadhurst

Is that all you can come up with... haha

you have been owned!
With so much to argue about, mmmmm. i'm still waiting for a reason to remove this from my car...oooh the wieght is about what you had for breakfast....

I'll give you a chance... explain what an earth loop is that you mentioned in the first post?
Whats it cause? things to blow up from excessive earthing? :nuts:

:lurk:

Earthing Kits look cool :cool:

thats my 2c

How many dyno runs did they do, in what engine conditions, with what ambient temperature....... :nuts:

Too many variables people.

I'm not saying that it didnt make more power, just saying that they maybe didnt contain much to backup the gain.

thing is they ran it as is 1st then did the mods and ran it over and over.....

now 11 times out of 10 the more you run a std car without altering the tune etc... the lower figure it will make

esp after it's rested for a while too


whilst i dont belive earthing has any use, on other forums i was a member of they had great outcomes for using an earthing and stabiliser kit on small automatic cars, not in tems of power gain, but better operation of the transmission...

cant say i know 1st hand though.. i tend to think if the earthing as good then it's come new like that with fat earth wires to everything

Is that all you can come up with... haha

you have been owned!
With so much to argue about, mmmmm. i'm still waiting for a reason to remove this from my car...oooh the wieght is about what you had for breakfast....

I'll give you a chance... explain what an earth loop is that you mentioned in the first post?
Whats it cause? things to blow up from excessive earthing? :nuts:

What more would you like him to come up with? There was never a suggestion to remove it from your car, you obviously have a sound system from your profile and therefore have good reason to upgrade your earths, something Jason agrees with.

Go googletarding if you want to know what earth loops are, this thread pretty much isn't the place.

You're pretty much stirring **** for no good reason now.

An entirely plausible and more than likely explanation for the power increase on the dyno runs is every time they moved/reattached the cables the connections got scuffed up more and created a better contact.

If they can show a gain in shootout mode on the same car on the same day on the same dyno I'd put money on the fact they could repeat these results with a stock car by cleaning the existing earths.

Judging from whats been agreed on so far(that an earth kit will help if the car has insufficient earthing from factory or a big stereo has been fitted) I think now the real question is, does the car in question have insufficient grounding from factory? How can this be tested to get a yes or a no?

Judging from whats been agreed on so far(that an earth kit will help if the car has insufficient earthing from factory or a big stereo has been fitted) I think now the real question is, does the car in question have insufficient grounding from factory? How can this be tested to get a yes or a no?

See original post. Cars draw **** all current once they're running. A/C can pull a bit, headlights on low beam a bit, but spark plugs, injectors and other courtesy kind of dash lights pull very little current.

A single 6mm^2 is easily sufficient for this.

What more would you like him to come up with? There was never a suggestion to remove it from your car, you obviously have a sound system from your profile and therefore have good reason to upgrade your earths, something Jason agrees with.

Go googletarding if you want to know what earth loops are, this thread pretty much isn't the place.

You're pretty much stirring **** for no good reason now.

Yes i'm stirring crap, dont like it dont post,

If you look at the profile i'm running nothing big anyways.

And i put this earthing kit on before the amps..... Found improvement....
Mainly with idle improvement, and lights diddn't dim when thermo fan was running...

I found my motor and transmission responded quicker.
And am i feeling nothing? Placebo maybe? i dont think so. maybe im:nuts:

Now i can understand that the earth strap will do the job.... but it can be BETTER!

We have spoken about how car manufacturers COST CUT!

And you want to jump in and stick up for TC...:gtfo:

Now i thought i was being civil....and quite polite. asking for a reason WHY i should take it out, if the original is so adequate, he is the EXPERT so to say(by himself allbeit).
Still waiting.
Its been done, AND proven....
I really wish i had a dyno to shut some people up.:rant:


Just think about it. No dont think.... you might bleed out from your ear....


An entirely plausible and more than likely explanation for the power increase on the dyno runs is every time they moved/reattached the cables the connections got scuffed up more and created a better contact.

Like WTF you just agreed with what i'm trying to say...

See original post. Cars draw **** all current once they're running. A/C can pull a bit, headlights on low beam a bit, but spark plugs, injectors and other courtesy kind of dash lights pull very little current.

A single 6mm^2 is easily sufficient for this.

Draws a bit, draws a bit, draws a bit. No mention of what each component actually draw. My point was, for this argument to be resolved someone will need to ascertain exactly what is the max draw is to know for certain weather(sp?) the factory earth is sufficient, not just have a guess.

turbo_charade mentioned a 20A max draw in the original post, curious to know where he got that figure. Was it a guestimate, was it taken from a reputable source or proven "scientifically"(ie: run an amp meter on it)?

I have the know-how to do this(run an amp meter on it) but lack the time and the correct tools so, unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to help solve this one at the moment.

Did a quick measure with a good milliOHM meter of a few points referenced to the negative battery terminal: 2002 TJ Ralliart Manual

To –

Battery Lug 0.02mΩ
Fusebox mounting bolt 2.32mΩ
Passenger side strut top 2.2mΩ
Passenger side Earth point lugs 1.52mΩ
Top Alternator Bolt 1.65mΩ
Intake Manifold bolt 2.36mΩ
Throttlebody 2.68mΩ
Drivers side firewall Earth Bolt head 0.80mΩ
Throttle cable attachment 3.32mΩ
Gearbox Top shifter mounting bolts 3.20mΩ

1m length of 2Guage cable 0.30mΩ
1m length of 8Guage cable 2.62mΩ



Cummins.

OK well NORMAL alternators start at 70amps.... and go upto 130+amps.

so why would a car have one thats overkill? only need 5 amps to charge the battery...

in theory the max draw would be the calculation of all the fuses in the fusebox. add them together to get the maximum draw for all accesories at startup!

even if you took 5-10 amps of every fuse i bet its still more than the claimed 20amps...

Did a quick measure with a good milliOHM meter of a few points referenced to the negative battery terminal: 2002 TJ Ralliart Manual

To –

Battery Lug 0.02mΩ
Fusebox mounting bolt 2.32mΩ
Passenger side strut top 2.2mΩ
Passenger side Earth point lugs 1.52mΩ
Top Alternator Bolt 1.65mΩ
Intake Manifold bolt 2.36mΩ
Throttlebody 2.68mΩ
Drivers side firewall Earth Bolt head 0.80mΩ
Throttle cable attachment 3.32mΩ
Gearbox Top shifter mounting bolts 3.20mΩ

1m length of 2Guage cable 0.30mΩ
1m length of 8Guage cable 2.62mΩ



Cummins.

Did you measure to the battery terminal or the post? If you did the terminal the readings will be incorrect.

Did a quick measure with a good milliOHM meter of a few points referenced to the negative battery terminal: 2002 TJ Ralliart Manual

To –

Battery Lug 0.02mΩ
Fusebox mounting bolt 2.32mΩ
Passenger side strut top 2.2mΩ
Passenger side Earth point lugs 1.52mΩ
Top Alternator Bolt 1.65mΩ
Intake Manifold bolt 2.36mΩ
Throttlebody 2.68mΩ
Drivers side firewall Earth Bolt head 0.80mΩ
Throttle cable attachment 3.32mΩ
Gearbox Top shifter mounting bolts 3.20mΩ

1m length of 2Guage cable 0.30mΩ
1m length of 8Guage cable 2.62mΩ



Cummins.


Good for posting that, perfect earths

Judging from whats been agreed on so far(that an earth kit will help if the car has insufficient earthing from factory or a big stereo has been fitted) I think now the real question is, does the car in question have insufficient grounding from factory? How can this be tested to get a yes or a no?

I have a friend who is an NRMA Road Service dude. We had a chat about Barry's earthing kit before I fitted it. My friend said that whilst he could no be sure of the possible performance gains he WAS sure that all Aust made cars are poorly earthed. How does he know? Because he sees radiator and heater hoses persih and fail much earlier as Oz makers use these as a cheap way of earthing the car. My friend's bottom line was that the earthing kit was cheap insurance against catstrophic cooling system failure due to perished hoses.

I fitted the earthing kit 3-4 months ago. Whilst I can''t claim to have found a measurable performance gain I can vouch for Barry's claim about a whole lot less black soot coating the inside of the tailpipe. This is suggestive of better fuel/air burn at the very least....

The 20A figure I guessed by adding up all the components I could think of. Even with 80A the idle and performance of an engine shouldn't matter because most of those components dont travel through a earth strap to the battery anyway, the circuit is complete through the block to the alternator ;)

The drop in idle when the thermos come on and other electrical loads is the Alternator having to charge more, hence more load on the engine. It will charge to the regulators set point of 14.5v generally, referenced internally then distributed to the battery for charging and the fuse box for things like lights and car electronics.

As for aussie cars having smaller earths, can anyone confirm this? What is the stock earths on the magnas? I would assume at least 1 16mm^2 cable. My Fairlane idled fine so I didn't look at the earths :bowrofl:

This thread has done what it was intended to do, encourage disgussion of what the mod does and why its done or why some think its pointless. Let it continue.

I never said i had a problem with my idle, it just got better. Wasn't expecting anything really.had heard the hype and thought i'd give it a go. way before i heard of this site by the way....

Thats another thing... it may idle fine, its like a good tune, and a better tune.

A song thats been recorded once... and a song thats been recored a hundred times and they have taken the best bits and put it together to make a better cleaner smoother song.
More refined...
get my drift now...:D

I have a friend who is an NRMA Road Service dude. We had a chat about Barry's earthing kit before I fitted it. My friend said that whilst he could no be sure of the possible performance gains he WAS sure that all Aust made cars are poorly earthed. How does he know? Because he sees radiator and heater hoses persih and fail much earlier as Oz makers use these as a cheap way of earthing the car. My friend's bottom line was that the earthing kit was cheap insurance against catstrophic cooling system failure due to perished hoses.


I have heard of "stray currents" etc in radiators and what it can possibly cause,but how can insufficient earths cause rubber hoses to perish and how are these used as earthing points?????

While i have fitted heavier and extra earth cables to my cars as i have always made my own and only fitted it as a possible "helper" to the stock earths,without ever really measuring to see if they help,(recently i have started to and have found the earth side very good,but its the positive side of the circuits that usually lack--read on)but i must say i have always upgraded and fitted heavy voltage drop wires from alternator to battery etc as these always have measurable voltage drop from factory and will actually help get more grunt to charge the battery,i also always fit relays to the headlight circuits,as i have seen some horrible voltage drop over the stock wires in many cars of my own and other people,and a 2 volt drop at the headlights makes a normal halogen globe work at 50% of its rating,so there is always gains to be made

So my point is,while it doesnt hurt to upgrade earths etc,money is much better spent upgrading the + side of circuits like i said above,ie lights, alternator,starting circuit etc and while you are at it,make up a couple of extra earths with the off-cuts etc just for good measure,that way you kill two birds with one stone and dont need to spend 95 bucks to it

Steve

I'm sorry this is not my expertise.
http://www.toymods.net/mos/img/earthing/ground2.jpg
http://www.toymods.net/mos/img/earthing/ground3.jpg
http://www.toymods.net/mos/img/earthing/ground4.jpg

Yes i'm stirring crap, dont like it dont post,

If you look at the profile i'm running nothing big anyways.

And i put this earthing kit on before the amps..... Found improvement....
Mainly with idle improvement, and lights diddn't dim when thermo fan was running...

I found my motor and transmission responded quicker.
And am i feeling nothing? Placebo maybe? i dont think so. maybe im:nuts:

Now i can understand that the earth strap will do the job.... but it can be BETTER!

We have spoken about how car manufacturers COST CUT!

And you want to jump in and stick up for TC...:gtfo:

Now i thought i was being civil....and quite polite. asking for a reason WHY i should take it out, if the original is so adequate, he is the EXPERT so to say(by himself allbeit).
Still waiting.
Its been done, AND proven....
I really wish i had a dyno to shut some people up.:rant:


Just think about it. No dont think.... you might bleed out from your ear....


An entirely plausible and more than likely explanation for the power increase on the dyno runs is every time they moved/reattached the cables the connections got scuffed up more and created a better contact.

Like WTF you just agreed with what i'm trying to say...
I think you need to step back and read what TC is saying mate. Yes you felt improvements, BUT it's not neccessarily because the stock earthing points were inadequate, your car is quite old and they may have degraded over time.
If this is the case you can either add an earthing kit or clean your current earths, both giving the same results but cleaning the earths is alot cheaper, that's all he is saying.

Now when running high end stereos there definitely is a benefit with better earths by using an earthing kit, plan to make myself one up when i finish my install :).

Now when running high end stereos there definitely is a benefit with better earths by using an earthing kit, plan to make myself one up when i finish my install :).

Why not put one before your install, it's only $34.00 (delivered) on ebay...:D and you'll be needing that very soon anyway.:D

I think the moral of the story is not if you have a stereo, its if you have a large enough current draw to begin saturating the stock earths.

A large stereo definatly would, but you're talking over 1000w RMS to equal a 70A draw. Then look at the size of 10A fused wires in the fuse box/dash and that will give you an idea of how little copper is needed for it.

Basically the message is that it depends on how bad the original earthing system on the car actually is.

Case 1 - 70's or early 80's car. In this case, often the earth wires were fixed to the body with a self tapping screw. Imagine many years later, corrosion, loose screws etc..etc... That's why I often see cars with the brake lights flashing when the indicators should be on - classic indication that there is a bad earth.

Later cars have nuts welded to the body and use thread cutting bolts with a paint clearing feature under the head of the bolt. These will be much better.

Also the car manufacturers in recent years have cut the insulation thickness and wire sizes down as much as possible to save weight and cost.

That's why HeathYoung went to the trouble of making a thick wire, relay kit so that headlamps really work.
I did the same thing on a Cologne Capri in the 80's. Fitted a second relay and put in heavy wires from the battery directly to the relay and onto the headlamp connectors, then heavy earth wires directly back to the battery terminal.
Before the lights looked yellow, after much brighter.

A good network of earth wires back from the key components in a car to the battery makes good sense. However I really do not see that it is economic to pay $300 for an overhyped, overpacked Japanese kit.
If you want one, make it yourself if you have the tools and wire., or buy the kit for sale in the forums.
Gerry.

I think the moral of the story is adding extra earth in your car is still beneficial.

Now you guys have made me look into them lol

I've been reading that is can help start-up times, is there anybody that has installed an earthing kit and noticed any change when they turn the key??

Been thinking about this for a while, good read. Major issue is I get a fairly nasty shock every time I get out of the car which i'm guessing is due to a badly stuffed earth wire, but with the additional equipment in I may as well throw in a couple of extra earths when I replace the main leads.

That is static build up on the chassis. You need one of those straps that hang from the back of peoples cars and dangle on to the road. Gives a path for the static, instead of going through you Office Space style. Dam it feels good to be a gangster.

Been thinking about this for a while, good read. Major issue is I get a fairly nasty shock every time I get out of the car which i'm guessing is due to a badly stuffed earth wire, but with the additional equipment in I may as well throw in a couple of extra earths when I replace the main leads.

You better read this, it might be the electrostatic build up in your body. http://www.electrostatics.net/articles/static_shocks.htm#How%20can%20I%20stop%20static%20 shocks? (http://www.electrostatics.net/articles/static_shocks.htm#ow%20can%20I%20stop%20static%20s hocks?)
If you got a sheepskin or nylon seat cover...sure you won't miss the zap.lol

It's not so much a problem in the Magna as it is in the Chrysler, might look into one of those straps next time i'm over at the wreckers. I know the electrical earths in the Magna are dodgy anyway so I might still consider it, probably some wire in the shed I could use.

It's not so much a problem in the Magna as it is in the Chrysler, might look into one of those straps next time i'm over at the wreckers. I know the electrical earths in the Magna are dodgy anyway so I might still consider it, probably some wire in the shed I could use.

you can buy the straps from any auto shop for 5-8 dollars brand new...

Been thinking about this for a while, good read. Major issue is I get a fairly nasty shock every time I get out of the car which i'm guessing is due to a badly stuffed earth wire, but with the additional equipment in I may as well throw in a couple of extra earths when I replace the main leads.

hahaha you think thats cos you have bad earth in the magna :bowrofl:

as mentioned, thats static

easliy caused by the footwear or clothes you wear and the material of your seats... some ppl suffer from it more than others...


if it were bad earthing every time you touched some metal your radio would go louder or the headlights brighter lol

It has other problems too, not just the static... I fail at cars but i'm not that bad. lol

Reason I mentioned wreckers is because i'm heading down there anyway and they're pretty much free at the door, saves two trips. Anyway, i'll probably forget it, I have much bigger problems than just a few shocks now... should have heard the noise on the way in, wouldn't be surprised if it was engine swap time. :doubt:

Back to the topic, I gave it a shot and ran some wire from the body, plenum and engine block to the battery, didn't seem to make any difference which probably means the stock earths are working well enough for now.

if your getting shocks from your car.....

maybe you need new shock absorbers :bowrofl:

just had to get that in before anyone else did lol

if your getting shocks from your car.....

maybe you need new shock absorbers :bowrofl:

just had to get that in before anyone else did lol


shocking:bowrofl:

I knew someone would say that, just wasn't sure who. lol

If the current changes (when equipment operates, say a solenoid for instance) then the circuit behaviour needs to be modelled for both DC and AC characteristics. This is not just a DC issue, so both resistance and impedance play a part. So we get on to conductor length, capacitive and inductive effects and skin effects. The DC model would be fine if the current draws didn't change, but they do.

An RF or EMC/EMI engineer/technician is probably one of the few people to accurately comment on this topic (which is perceived as black magic by the wider community, even by general electrical and other engineers).

Sure, the factory earths probably work ok, but they could probably do with improvement, especially with the amount of voltage sensitive equipment in the modern vehicle.


Ken

RF IS black magic. I work on high power radio transmitters and can tell you for sure how much trimming you need to do to get everything balanced. 8 RF PA pallets with identical components, and each of them have coils spaced differently, longer tracks on the PCB selected / or bridged or cut. Ugh! The maths goes right out the window in reality. :nuts:

Sure, the factory earths probably work ok, but they could probably do with improvement, especially with the amount of voltage sensitive equipment in the modern vehicle.


Ken

You have to remember things that require a reliable voltage on a car have voltage stabilising circuits internally. The rest of the components, like injectors, coils, solenoids and the likes are purely digital signals, and voltage is not terribly important.

If the current changes (when equipment operates, say a solenoid for instance) then the circuit behaviour needs to be modelled for both DC and AC characteristics. This is not just a DC issue, so both resistance and impedance play a part. So we get on to conductor length, capacitive and inductive effects and skin effects. The DC model would be fine if the current draws didn't change, but they do.

An RF or EMC/EMI engineer/technician is probably one of the few people to accurately comment on this topic (which is perceived as black magic by the wider community, even by general electrical and other engineers).

Sure, the factory earths probably work ok, but they could probably do with improvement, especially with the amount of voltage sensitive equipment in the modern vehicle.

Ken

Hi Ken

At last someone has identified the real issues involved - well said !

I am a RF technician and have experience in VHF, UHF and automotive electronics incl OEM security systems, ignition systems, audio, and yes the diversity of the electronics industry does mean becoming proficient in specialised areas

Another important item in this topic is the need to provide a stable power supply for the ECU

From the NET

The ECU power supply is a DC-DC converter. The battery voltage is converted to voltage levels appropriate for the MPU and other digital circuitry. In some cases the ECU provides the source voltage for the analog sensors. In these cases, the ECU provides one or more analog supply voltages that are derived from the battery voltage. Typical tests include:

• Continuity checks – check shorts and/or opens between power and ground
• Supply load test – if the ECU has an analog supply, verify the supply voltage regulation under maximum load condition
• Supply noise test – if the ECU has an analog supply, check noise output level
• Sleep current – check current draw on VBATT with ignition key in Off position
• Wake-up current – check current draw on VBATT with ignition key in On position

In simple terms, the ECU fulfills its purpose by accurately controlling the fuel mixture (air-to-fuel ratio), and spark timing (spark advance and duration) based on feedback from sensors connected to the engine. Management of the fuel mixture and ignition timing is complicated. The ECU requires data from many sensors to provide optimal control of the system. The ECU needs to know ground speed, engine speed, CRANK (crankshaft) position, air quality (oxygen content), engine temperature, engine load (for example, whether the air conditioner (A/C) is on), throttle position, rate of change of the throttle, transmission gear, emitted gases from the exhaust, and the list goes on. The ECU, as stated earlier, is a computer designed to solve a specific problem. Computers don't usually interact directly with the analog world. A signal-conditioning/data acquisition interface is required to convert the analog signals from the sensors to digital signals that the computer can understand. The digital outputs must be converted to analog signals to control the fuel system and the ignition system.

The electrical earth/ground tuning kit that I designed is NOT like the simple ones described here (which are usually meant for in-line 4 Cyl engines)

My design is especially for the 3rd Gen V6 which has issues including insufficient ECU grounding and combustion timing, and many owners have commented on the increase in Torque, smooth effective auto gear changes and stable idle

Cheers, Barry

And here endeth the lesson for those of us who are happy with Barry's kit and the results yielded :)

As stated earlier the biggies for me were cleaner tailpipe emissions (with measurably less soot at the tailpipe) and better behaved auto trans (which became sweet as a nut after following Barry's kit with a DIY flush and refill).

I was a sceptic but figured the small outlay was worth the risk. Now I'm a believer and will be earthing every car I get from now on...Barry, will you do my Pagani Zonda for me when I get it....?

Kind of a waste of a post there... i think we all know what an ECU does....

Well, if you look closely at the detail there are a number of references to grounding, power supply regulation, digital-to-analog signals and and how important they are

Remember that the ECU runs an internal high frequency chip that relies on external wiring that is of good quality and capable of supporting all the important functions mentioned

What about the earth wire(s) you supplied with the 4cyl fuel rail kits? what was the theory behind that?

The earth wire was a free extra single wire to ensure good grounding at the distributor, working in conjunction with the Fuel Rail Tuning Kit

Cheers, Barry

And here endeth the lesson for those of us who are happy with Barry's kit and the results yielded :)



Agreed. People are still going to try and flame Baz and his earth kit(even though after the evidence in this thread, IMO they're talking out their ar$es), but i think this thread has yielded some excellent discussion on the topic(and stayed relatively civil in the process,as per the thread title) and helped people understand how an earth kit will help a poorly earthed vehicle.

Here you go.

You guys have gone round in circles for quite a while.

If you upgrade your audio its a good idea to upgrade your earths. Otherwise it's only worth upgrading if you're particularly anal and cbf'd cleaning and maintaining your stock set up.

5kW which you probably wouldnt notice. Yet every bit helps.

34716

34717

34718

34719

A RF tech (tafe course for what a whole 4 weeks?) is about as qualified as the proverbial grain of salt.

Here you go.

You guys have gone round in circles for quite a while.

If you upgrade your audio its a good idea to upgrade your earths. Otherwise it's only worth upgrading if you're particularly anal and cbf'd cleaning and maintaining your stock set up.

5kW which you probably wouldnt notice. Yet every bit helps.

34716

34717

34718

34719

A lot of the power gain from that article was from the voltage stabilizer not just the earthing kit. I found one cheap that is on the way so Ill let you know if I FEEL / SEE a difference. Im gonna do an earthing kit soon too, when I get some time.

Ollie

A RF tech (tafe course for what a whole 4 weeks?) is about as qualified as the proverbial grain of salt.

And there goes that civilised discussion we were aiming for.

I for one will be installing this earthing kit into my 'rada primarily because I have near on 1000W RMS (and about to be 2000W RMS when I add my sub) of audio gear in the car and because I can plainly see that the existing contacts in my car are fairly average.

Yes; I could probably get the same result if I went around and cleaned up all of my earths and ensured they were getting optimal contact. The catch is, I don't off the top of my head know where the all are, so I'm also paying for the detailed information and instructions on finding them and correcting them (As well as the kit itself)

Further, I would consider the following:
If Mitsi are happy to ship a vehicle where many of the earthing points are straight over paint, does that lend any credibility to the suggestion that they put any great effort into ensuring that the earthing setup was actually right for the car?

A seriously doubt that mitsi used different earthing in my car (A KF Verada with every extra bit of electronic gismo possible in it + a whole lot of other audio gear etc) to that which they used in a TF manual. I'd wager the earthing is almost identical (if not actually identical). Yet it is plain to see that the loads on the two different systems are drastically different. It would then be an extremely foolish decision to assume that they would install the more expensive high load system in all vehicles.

It is highly unlikely that a car manufacturer would be willing to go to the effort of designing and installing the most ideal earthing arrangement for their top of the line vehicle and then install it on all of them; it's just not how they work. They will have put in a reasonable ammount of effort to figure out what is "good enough" for the "average setup" and then scrimped every few cents they could out of implementing it.

For the peace of mind that everything is working as it should be working under best case circumstances, I feel that $95 is quite a good deal. If you feel otherwise; that's good for you, feel free to create an instructional tutorial on locating and improving all of your existing earthing wiring without any cost and provide a valid alternative to the work Barry has put in.

A RF tech (tafe course for what a whole 4 weeks?) is about as qualified as the proverbial grain of salt.

4 weeks would be worth a hell of a lot more than a general back yarder spouting off 'hearsay'. Minimum course is 6 months when I did it which gives your Certificate 2. That plus years of experience and fiddling is VERY qualified. You haven't listed your qualifications... got any?

I have done the Advanced Diploma in Electronic Engineering and had quite a bit of experience in both digital, very high speed RF and very high speed digital. All the theory supporting the earthing kit (if you add a stereo or engine modifications) is spot on the money. I added one to my car and it was worth the small amount of money.

If I didn't have a stereo I wouldn't have bothered as I don't see the need.

I don't actually have any specifical qualifications for the topic, but I have worked in the specific area for a few years now on jobs and hobbies. I work for a government gas pipeline and do a lot of work with control systems, radio telemetry and various other advanced ac/dc circuits.

I also have my background in ECU's, both design and implementation.

And there goes that civilised discussion we were aiming for.

I for one will be installing this earthing kit into my 'rada primarily because I have near on 1000W RMS (and about to be 2000W RMS when I add my sub) of audio gear in the car and because I can plainly see that the existing contacts in my car are fairly average.

Yes; I could probably get the same result if I went around and cleaned up all of my earths and ensured they were getting optimal contact. The catch is, I don't off the top of my head know where the all are, so I'm also paying for the detailed information and instructions on finding them and correcting them (As well as the kit itself)

Further, I would consider the following:
If Mitsi are happy to ship a vehicle where many of the earthing points are straight over paint, does that lend any credibility to the suggestion that they put any great effort into ensuring that the earthing setup was actually right for the car?

A seriously doubt that mitsi used different earthing in my car (A KF Verada with every extra bit of electronic gismo possible in it + a whole lot of other audio gear etc) to that which they used in a TF manual. I'd wager the earthing is almost identical (if not actually identical). Yet it is plain to see that the loads on the two different systems are drastically different. It would then be an extremely foolish decision to assume that they would install the more expensive high load system in all vehicles.

It is highly unlikely that a car manufacturer would be willing to go to the effort of designing and installing the most ideal earthing arrangement for their top of the line vehicle and then install it on all of them; it's just not how they work. They will have put in a reasonable ammount of effort to figure out what is "good enough" for the "average setup" and then scrimped every few cents they could out of implementing it.

For the peace of mind that everything is working as it should be working under best case circumstances, I feel that $95 is quite a good deal. If you feel otherwise; that's good for you, feel free to create an instructional tutorial on locating and improving all of your existing earthing wiring without any cost and provide a valid alternative to the work Barry has put in.

Have you even read the thread? I said that with a large load like a stereo that an earth from the stereo to the chassis and a chassis to the battery post would be a good idea for a slightly louder stereo (barely measurable though)

Having the same earths on your Verada means to me that the engineers were happy with the current carrying capability of the system enough for them to add more loads without a problem. You also only have another amp or two at any one time so it is really a mute point.

The earths on paint isn't a problem either. The bolt still contacts the lug with more surface area than the cables cross-sectional area, and similarly so does the thread of the bolt to the chassis.

I seem to be going round in circles but if the engine earth can deal with 100 odd amps from a starter motor, what makes you think it couldn't deal with a tenth of that while at idle, let alone enough for it to labour at idle and be unstable?

Next thing you will claim it makes your lights turn on faster :bowrofl:

Further, I would consider the following:
If Mitsi are happy to ship a vehicle where many of the earthing points are straight over paint, does that lend any credibility to the suggestion that they put any great effort into ensuring that the earthing setup was actually right for the car?


the metal lug on the earth wire touches the bolt, the bolt is then screwed into the metal on the car....hence they arent going to scratch the paint off with a bit of sandpaper as there is no need.

sorry its already been said ^^... cant be bothered reading full page posts from people who drive riced up bmw's.

Hahaha TC you're a real character. lol

Raise my fist in resistance lol

I seem to be going round in circles but if the engine earth can deal with 100 odd amps from a starter motor, what makes you think it couldn't deal with a tenth of that while at idle, let alone enough for it to labour at idle and be unstable?

Next thing you will claim it makes your lights turn on faster :bowrofl:

Exactly. People are overcomplicating the issue.

Inductance is 3 parts of ****all at the currents we are looking for. Its a straight conductor, not a coil, current is minimal, you are talking DC, anything that is producing EMF/EMI (a source of RF) will be snubbed if the ECU is properly designed.

There are a few electrical engineers on here who have a quiet sn1gger about some of the posts here. :doubt:

Edit - you can't write SNlGGER - WTF? Swear filter is now overly politically correct, its as bad as the one on hidplanet - MATSUSHlTA is a brand of ballast dammitt!!!

Exactly. People are overcomplicating the issue.

...

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=819690&postcount=65

The resistances I measured are Sweet FA! What further evidence of good grounds do people want...

Cummins.

They probably want a few jurnos to do a magazine artical on it with inconclusive dyno graphs showing no difference, that'll sell em.

I still think (read: know) the plane will take off from the moving conveyor, even if it doesn't have an aftermarket grounding kit. lol

I still think (read: know) the plane will take off from the moving conveyor, even if it doesn't have an aftermarket grounding kit. lol

That's gold :bowrofl: :bowrofl:

lolz

Jason Broadhurst.

I still think (read: know) the plane will take off from the moving conveyor, even if it doesn't have an aftermarket grounding kit. lol

the plane wont take off if there is baggage still on the belt though....

i know cos i work at the airport :P

and they usually dont fly at all when they are grounded :bowrofl:

the plane wont take off if there is baggage still on the belt though....

i know cos i work at the airport :P

and they usually dont fly at all when they are grounded :bowrofl:

Another new sig from andrewd! He's two for two now lol

I still think (read: know) the plane will take off from the moving conveyor, even if it doesn't have an aftermarket grounding kit. lol

on the topic of plane on conveyor belts, if anyone is interested there is basically FREE MONEY at matchbook.com if you want to bet whether the plane should take off or not.

Of course it would take off, it's pushing on the air behind it, not on the ground.

Of course it would take off, it's pushing on the air behind it, not on the ground.


OMFG... 'PLEASE' don't start this again in here.

I was just looking at the Outlander page and came across an earthing kit as a factory optional extra.

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/#/web/VehicleAccessories.aspx?vehicle=outlander&id=3429

This really makes me wonder why? if there is an issue without it or of it is that much better with the earthing kit then it should be fitted as standard shouldn't it?

I was just looking at the Outlander page and came across an earthing kit as a factory optional extra.

This really makes me wonder why? if there is an issue without it or of it is that much better with the earthing kit then it should be fitted as standard shouldn't it?


My point exactly.... damn no JB to argue with haha! I won..... Kachoww!:gtfo: (Only Jokin)

I was just looking at the Outlander page and came across an earthing kit as a factory optional extra.

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/#/web/VehicleAccessories.aspx?vehicle=outlander&id=3429

This really makes me wonder why? if there is an issue without it or of it is that much better with the earthing kit then it should be fitted as standard shouldn't it?

Same with any other 'optional extra', it doesn't cost them $500 to colour code your mirrors but someone will pay it.

If it made such a significant improvement why wouldn't it be stock?

This whole thread:

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4154/***nogf9.gif

I was just looking at the Outlander page and came across an earthing kit as a factory optional extra.

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.au/#/web/VehicleAccessories.aspx?vehicle=outlander&id=3429

This really makes me wonder why? if there is an issue without it or of it is that much better with the earthing kit then it should be fitted as standard shouldn't it?
Because they make good money on accessories...looks pretty cool so people buy it...:headbange

http://atticghosts.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/snakeoil.png

:bowrofl: (@ above)

I made up some extra earth wires for my motor, didn't do jack all for performance. Made it run a little better and kept the battery terminals in good nick, but that's mostly likely because my existing leads are 20 or so years old anyway. (Regardless I left it on, no harm by having it on there)

over this circular debate

/thread

a kid at school put tweesers in a powerpoint at school and it sparked like hell lol
how does grounding affect something power by petrol anyway