Hi Everyone,

My first post! I've been lurking on and off for a while and its a great site here, congratulations.

I have a TWII AWD VRX which I really enjoy when I can get the wife out from behind the wheel. Its tyre time again and I'm considering my options. Standard rims are 16 x 7 with a 46mm offset running 215/60 16 tyres. 2WD VRXs have 17 x 7 with presumably the same offset with 225/50 tyres.

The way the tyre market is evolving, 235/45 17s are a relatively economical choice. They are borderline on a 7" rim and generally are considered best on and 8".

I see that many have fitted 18s and 19s successfully, but I have not found any reference to the widths and offsets when members have mentioned these.

Can anyone point me in the right direction, ie what widths and offsets with tyres work?

I don't want to over tyre the car, and I do some dirt roads and winter work in the mountains. I am probably going to get 225/55/16s on my standard rims as there seems to be a bit more choice in a performance tyre in this size than the 215/60 standard size, but I'm not averse to going to 17s and if 235/45s work then that could ultimately be more economical, just got to get the right 17" rims, presumably 7.5 or 8 wide and what offset to make it work?.

Thanks for you wisdom,
Steve

235/45 on an 18" rim is typical around here (its what i'm running too), not sure on the offset of my rims, but rim size is 18x8 :)

235/45 on an 18" rim is typical around here (its what i'm running too), not sure on the offset of my rims, but rim size is 18x8 :)
I think you mean 235/40r18...

it's about 10mm off OEM outside diameter.

cheers,
.wook

I think you mean 235/40r18...

it's about 10mm off OEM outside diameter.

cheers,
.wook

Actually, i think mine are 235/45...

I've just put new bridgestones on in standard size, main factor in not going bigger was that it gets down dirt roads a lot so I didn't want to go to a lower profile or even wider for that matter. So far I havent pushed these beyond their limits and are excellent in the wet. Would rather spend the extra coin on swaybars or springs

Actually, i think mine are 235/45...


Well mine and everyone else's I know who have 18's have 235/40's which are actually bigger than 235/45's so there better :D

Actually, i think mine are 235/45...

Well mine and everyone else's I know who have 18's have 235/40's which are actually bigger than 235/45's so there better :D

WTF? 235/40r18 are smaller in OD than 235/45r18

235/45r18 have an OD of 668.7mm
235/40r18 = 645.2mm

225/50r17 = 656.8mm (stock Ralliart)
205/65r15 = 647.5mm (stock TJ II)

so unless you have a Ralliart, the 235/45r18s are illegal due to the OD being changed by more than 15mm.

cheers,
.wook

WTF? 235/40r18 are smaller in OD than 235/45r18

235/45r18 have an OD of 668.7mm
235/40r18 = 645.2mm

225/50r17 = 656.8mm (stock Ralliart)
205/65r15 = 647.5mm (stock TJ II)

so unless you have a Ralliart, the 235/45r18s are illegal due to the OD being changed by more than 15mm.

cheers,
.wook


or if you have an awd/verada you have 215/60/16 tyres as standard (ad does the OP) and 235/45/18's are fine and 235/40/18 are too small

or if you have an awd/verada you have 215/60/16 tyres as standard (ad does the OP) and 235/45/18's are fine and 235/40/18 are too small

oops, didn't notice that.

215/60r16 = 664.4mm OD

so the 235/45r18s would work. that also means:

235/45r17 = 643.3mm and are too small for AWD/Verada.

for 17" rims you'd need a 50 series tyre in either 235/50 or 225/50.

cheers,
.wook

WTF? 235/40r18 are smaller in OD than 235/45r18

235/45r18 have an OD of 668.7mm
235/40r18 = 645.2mm

225/50r17 = 656.8mm (stock Ralliart)
205/65r15 = 647.5mm (stock TJ II)

so unless you have a Ralliart, the 235/45r18s are illegal due to the OD being changed by more than 15mm.

cheers,
.wook

Width dude width, 235mm with 45% of that in the side walls or only 40% of that in the side walls, that's the point I was making but didnt explain it well lol

Width dude width, 235mm with 45% of that in the side walls or only 40% of that in the side walls, that's the point I was making but didnt explain it well lol
235/40 and 235/45 have the exact same width? :nuts:

not quite sure what you're going on about. :confused:

235/40 and 235/45 have the exact same width? :nuts:

not quite sure what you're going on about. :confused:

they are the same width just the sidewall on the 235/45 is taller

they are the same width just the sidewall on the 235/45 is taller
:confused: duh!


Well mine and everyone else's I know who have 18's have 235/40's which are actually bigger than 235/45's so there better :D


Width dude width, 235mm with 45% of that in the side walls or only 40% of that in the side walls, that's the point I was making but didnt explain it well lol

235/40 are the same width as 235/45 and 235/45 are bigger (i.e. more sidewall) than 235/40...

I just don't get what Sports is trying to say.

cheers,
.wook

for the record, mine are 235/40 :) lol

i got 235/45's on 17 x 9 Rims

i got 235/45's on 17 x 9 Rims

You got a 9 inch wide 17" rim? What the :shock:

You got a 9 inch wide 17" rim? What the :shock:

Yeah Ford Territory rims lol

Yeah Ford Territory rims lol
you mean totally illegal Ford Territory rims. :nuts:

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your thoughts. I've opted out of changing rims for the time being, sticking with the standard 16 x 7 x 46 mm offset.

I'd still like to know what people are running, ie if you have 18s, which seems to be a popular choice with 225 50s, what width and offsets have you got? Apart from looking good, what are the advantages and are there any disadvantages? Rougher ride perhaps, tramlining?

I've ended up ordering Marangoni Vantos in 225/55 which drops my gearing 1-2% so should be fine. My dealer is keen to get some out there so $100 discount per tyre @ $175 instead of $275. We shall see, just trying to find the holy grail, ultimate performance, and cheap price.

http://www.marangonityre.co.uk/Vanto.asp?ID=10&Level1ID=2&Level2ID=4
http://www.marangonityre.co.uk/fileuploads/Vanto.pdf

Nexen 3000s were another option I thought hard about. I brought some alloy wheels for my 4x4 which had some Nexen ATs fitted. Never heard of them until then, but they are proving to be superior to previous tyres I've had on it including Toyo, Cooper, Goodyear and BFG. Better grip in wet and quiet on road as well as no flats yet on rocks. If their car tyres are as good, I'd be impressed, still I'll try the Italians this time.

FYI, the original GII BS are great, if noisy and lasted 40k, $215 each though. Some Yokohama C Drives look like lasting forever, but are 'greasy' in the wet and tramline so after 35k and less than 1/2 worn they are coming off.

Cheers
Steve

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your thoughts. I've opted out of changing rims for the time being, sticking with the standard 16 x 7 x 46 mm offset.

I'd still like to know what people are running, ie if you have 18s, which seems to be a popular choice with 225 50s, what width and offsets have you got? Apart from looking good, what are the advantages and are there any disadvantages? Rougher ride perhaps, tramlining?

I've ended up ordering Marangoni Vantos in 225/55 which drops my gearing 1-2% so should be fine. My dealer is keen to get some out there so $100 discount per tyre @ $175 instead of $275. We shall see, just trying to find the holy grail, ultimate performance, and cheap price.

http://www.marangonityre.co.uk/Vanto.asp?ID=10&Level1ID=2&Level2ID=4
http://www.marangonityre.co.uk/fileuploads/Vanto.pdf

Nexen 3000s were another option I thought hard about. I brought some alloy wheels for my 4x4 which had some Nexen ATs fitted. Never heard of them until then, but they are proving to be superior to previous tyres I've had on it including Toyo, Cooper, Goodyear and BFG. Better grip in wet and quiet on road as well as no flats yet on rocks. If their car tyres are as good, I'd be impressed, still I'll try the Italians this time.

FYI, the original GII BS are great, if noisy and lasted 40k, $215 each though. Some Yokohama C Drives look like lasting forever, but are 'greasy' in the wet and tramline so after 35k and less than 1/2 worn they are coming off.

Cheers
Steve

Since you mentioned that you do some winter mountain driving, I presume you will be
using snow chanins, in that case, you cannot go any bigger than 215/60R16 tyres as there
wont be enough room on the inside between the tyres and the suspension arms. I have
225/50R17 tyres on 17x7 40+ offset wheels (which takes the wheels 6mm outwards) but
with a 10mm wider tyre, there is only about 5 to 8mm clearance. Fitting 225/55R16 tyres
the OD will be 10mm less which means your actual speed will be 1.5% slower than speedo
speed, however, your tyres will be 5mm closer to the (already narrow gap) suspension
arms.
What you can do (although you have to bear in mind that your current tyres are worn so
there is going to be slightly more room) is put your hand over the top of the tyres (say
rear ones) and feel how much room there is between the top inner corner and the
suspension arm. You will also notice that the AWDs have damn big suspension arms
compared to the standard FWD versions.

Good points Vlad, we shall see what happens. If the snow is that heavy that I NEED the chains, then I really didn't want to be there, but living here, it sometimes can happen, but then with care the AWD is enough, so far. I've been living and working in and around the mountains now for 40 years and have used chains in anger twice on 4x4 and a 2 or 3 times on 2wd cars. Not yet on AWD cars.

What differences do you notice between your 17s with 40mm offset and standard?

Thanks
Steve

Good points Vlad, we shall see what happens. If the snow is that heavy that I NEED the chains, then I really didn't want to be there, but living here, it sometimes can happen, but then with care the AWD is enough, so far. I've been living and working in and around the mountains now for 40 years and have used chains in anger twice on 4x4 and a 2 or 3 times on 2wd cars. Not yet on AWD cars.

What differences do you notice between your 17s with 40mm offset and standard?

Thanks
Steve

The standard 215/60R16 tyres, IMHO, are too wide for the 6" wheels so my tyres were always
sagging, even at 40psi (Ford and Holden fit 215/60R16 tyres to their 16x6.5 wheels). This
caused a lot of premature wear on the shoulders and the OEM Bridgestone Grid IIs only
lasted 25K kms. The 225/50ZR17 98W XL Hankook Optimo XQ tyres, although cheaper than
others (still $280 each due to XL) are way better at grip, quietness and longevity (done
almost 30K kms and still have 1/3 tread left) eventhough I drive it harder on the Hankooks
then the OEMs. Also, because of the extra width and 10mm wider track, it handles better.

Vlad,

Interesting that you had 6" rims. Mine are 16x7 which is fine for 215 and apparently OK for 225 and also tolerable for 235, but not ideal.

I thought that this info that i found here might be of interest re legality,
http://www.toyo.com.au/tech_info8.html as of 2002
Following is a list of the minimum requirements for alternative wheel & tyres for Australian States & territories. These requirements apply to passenger cars unless otherwise stated. O.E. size refers to any tyre size listed on the vehicle's tyre placard. An alternative tyre size is a tyres size that is not listed on the vehicle's tyre placard. Fitment of wheels & tyres that do not meet these requirements require an engineering certificate to be a legal fitment.
New South Wales: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 15mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is N (140 kph).
Victoria: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is equivalent to the highest state speed limit, which is 110kph or K.
Queensland: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 26mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is N (140 kph).
South Australia: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 15mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is S (180 kph) for new tyres fitted to passenger cars or 140 kph (N) for retreads. Minimum speed rating for four wheel drives is 130 kph (M).
West Australia: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 15mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is S (180 kph) for new tyres fitted to passenger cars (or the vehicle's top speed if lower than 180kph), or 140 kph (N) for retreads. Minimum speed rating for four wheel drives is N or 140 kph.
Tasmania: No specific ruling in maximum or minimum overall diameters of alternative wheels & tyres, Except that both must comply with Australian Tyre & Rim Association standards. The speed rating must be equal to or better than the vehicle's top speed.
Australian Capital Territory: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size or 26mm smaller than the smallest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is S (180 kph) for new tyres fitted to passenger cars or 140 kph (N) for retreads. Minimum speed rating for four wheel drives is 140 kph (N).
Northern Territory: The overall diameter of alternative tyres must be not more than 15mm larger than the largest O.E. size. Minimum speed rating is that stated on the tyre placard

Here is a table that i put together in a spreadsheet using to enable a comparison of sizes. I've not checked the numbers against the tyre companies dimesions, but it should be OK to get an idea. The formatting ma be a problem.

Dia " width mm profile % wall ht Dia mm Circumference
16 215 60 129 664 2087
16 225 60 135 676 2125
16 225 55 124 654 2054
16 225 50 113 631 1984
17 225 50 113 657 2063
17 225 45 101 634 1993
17 235 45 106 643 2021
18 225 50 113 682 2143
18 225 45 101 660 2073
18 225 40 90 637 2002


Cheers
Steve

Vlad,

Interesting that you had 6" rims.

thats not interesting thats fact

std magna verada alloys are 16x6


just to note to your not allowed to replace a tyre with one that has a lower speed rating regardless of the state law std magnas are H = 210km/h

Well I thought that all the AWDs had 7s. I'm learning slowly.

Steve

Ended up with Maranagoni Vanto 225 55 16 @ $175 each and very happy so far with about 23k and looking like going 35-40k all up. Apparently they are a newish Italian company setup by ex Pirelli employees.

Compared to the original BS GII and Yoko C Drive replacements they wear a little faster, I got 40k from the BS and the Yokos would go further but are crap to drive on, ie tramline and greasy in the damp, so they came off.

The Vantos grip better and are more predictable on the limit. They are also quiet and do not tramline. No greasy feel when the surface is just damp either. Not commonly available, but I will get these again.

Steve
PS 7" on the VRX is standard.

Yep my stockies also 7s.

Just read through the whole post again and had to laugh. When Sports said that 235/40 is bigger than 235/45, he means that with 235/40, only 40% of 235 is the side wall, so width of the tyre is 60% of 235. Thus, for the 235/45, sidewall is 45% of 235 and width is 55% of 235. Thus with his view, the actual width of 235/40 is 141mm which is bigger than the actual width of 235/45 at 129mm. He does not realise that the width remains the same at 235mm and the sidewall height changes depending on the percentage value.

i run 245/40/19 sumitomo s3 (i think they are) on my kl awd seems good rims have 35 offset