howdy. Just got a swaybar 2nd hand and im wondering if anyone on here has one or can take some pictures of theres installed to give me an idea how to install mine? (TR Sedan Rear - kit no BMR44)

I rang up whiteline and the guy there sent me a few pictures of there old instructions kit but there was only 1 good picture, any pictures of where all the mounting hardware joins up would be tops.
Paul

I would be interested in this, does your car currently have a swaybar at all???

I think even if a car already has one, sometimes they require a new install with different mounting points.

My car handlign is embarrassing in the way it understeers, in a legal place I was cornering hardish at low speed and ripped the handbrake.... it still understeered. I will be putting new springs, shocks and bushings, alignment shortly, but I noticed there is NO swaybar in the back of my 2nd gen wagon, and I think one would really help transform the handling.

Im guessing that they dont make them for the wagon, and that the one in your sedan will not fit it mine. ANYONE who has heard or done a wagon please let me know!!!

Ollie

Opilot87,
Second gens do not have rear anti-sway bars as standard.
My last car was a KS manual touring wagon.
First mod was to put the Whiteline kit on - different car.

Before when you go to turn in for a corner, you will feel a hesitation as between turning the steering wheel and the car actually beginning to turn.

There are several reasons for this:-
1) A weight transfer occurs from side to side as well as from the rear to the front of the car. - Have a look at the outside edges of both your front tyres, they will be feathered and worn more than the inside edges becaues of this.
2) As the car rolls and transfers weight to the outside tyres, then the tyre sidewalls flex. This means that the tyre tread does not move as much as you want.

FIXES.
1) The most bang for your buck is to do the rear bar. If you are intending to do other suspension work like harder springs, front sway bar and bigger wheels and tyres then get a bigger diameter bar if available.

2) Front suspension bushes - yours will be knackered by now. Get nolathane bushes fitted. Good opportunity to change the caster at the same time. This will make the steering a bit heavier.

3) Bigger wheels and tyres. I know that everyone wants to fit 18's, 19's or 20's. If you want a good handling compliant ride then the bigger tyre and wheel combinations are a waste of money. It would be better spent on decent harder springs and shock absorbers.
Best thins, INMHO, is to go to 17's with really good tyres like the Dunlop Sport MAXX.
In the meantime then pump up the tyres, say 36- 38 psi.

4) A sensible lower with decent shock absorbers.
Philcom Rally does good spring and shock absorber packages. The KYB / King SP or low package would be ideal. As you have a wagon, if you have to load it up with stuff then the best bet would be to go for the King SP's. Same spring rate as the lows but the car will be about 30 mm lower.

5) Front camber adjustment bolts. Get these done at the same time as the front bushes. Set to 1° negative.

6) Front sway bar. Does not make the same enormous difference as the rear bar, in fact a stiffer front bar will increase understeer. Hence my comment to only do this if you have the biggest rear bar fitted, or an adjustable nar. In this case change the rear bar to the stiffest setting when the front bar is fitted.
Front bar is a bugger to fit as so much has to be removed and replaced to fit.

Hope this helps.
Gerry

Thanks for the heads up mate.
For the price i got it for i couldnt turn it down.
Im on Brand new KYB's all around, lovells SL's up front and compressed lows in the rear on 19"s but the ride is horrible. front springs are for some reason way to soft and the car just nosedives every turn, so ill be getting that fixed sooner or later.
any pics?

']Thanks for the heads up mate.
For the price i got it for i couldnt turn it down.
Im on Brand new KYB's all around, lovells SL's up front and compressed lows in the rear on 19"s but the ride is horrible. front springs are for some reason way to soft and the car just nosedives every turn, so ill be getting that fixed sooner or later.
any pics?

don't forget you have a front strut brace, hence the car is oversteering, its just too stiff, i'm sure you'll see a world of difference when you get the rear sway bar fitted.

theres probably nothing wrong with your spring and shocks combo... just the front too stiff

don't forget you have a front strut brace, hence the car is oversteering,

It'll actually be more understeery if you increase the front roll stiffness. But yeah, boozer's on the right track, you'll notice a huge improvement with the rear sway bar.

Most likely the front springs arent stiff enough for the weight of the car, or poor damping. And it'll only get worse with the new motor. :doubt:

Ere ya go Paula,

http://www.fastmagna.com/tech/tech5.htm
Thats not a 2nd gen, but might give u an idea?

Opilot87,
Second gens do not have rear anti-sway bars as standard.
My last car was a KS manual touring wagon.
First mod was to put the Whiteline kit on - different car.

Before when you go to turn in for a corner, you will feel a hesitation as between turning the steering wheel and the car actually beginning to turn.

There are several reasons for this:-
1) A weight transfer occurs from side to side as well as from the rear to the front of the car. - Have a look at the outside edges of both your front tyres, they will be feathered and worn more than the inside edges becaues of this.
2) As the car rolls and transfers weight to the outside tyres, then the tyre sidewalls flex. This means that the tyre tread does not move as much as you want.

FIXES.
1) The most bang for your buck is to do the rear bar. If you are intending to do other suspension work like harder springs, front sway bar and bigger wheels and tyres then get a bigger diameter bar if available.

2) Front suspension bushes - yours will be knackered by now. Get nolathane bushes fitted. Good opportunity to change the caster at the same time. This will make the steering a bit heavier.

3) Bigger wheels and tyres. I know that everyone wants to fit 18's, 19's or 20's. If you want a good handling compliant ride then the bigger tyre and wheel combinations are a waste of money. It would be better spent on decent harder springs and shock absorbers.
Best thins, INMHO, is to go to 17's with really good tyres like the Dunlop Sport MAXX.
In the meantime then pump up the tyres, say 36- 38 psi.

4) A sensible lower with decent shock absorbers.
Philcom Rally does good spring and shock absorber packages. The KYB / King SP or low package would be ideal. As you have a wagon, if you have to load it up with stuff then the best bet would be to go for the King SP's. Same spring rate as the lows but the car will be about 30 mm lower.

5) Front camber adjustment bolts. Get these done at the same time as the front bushes. Set to 1° negative.

6) Front sway bar. Does not make the same enormous difference as the rear bar, in fact a stiffer front bar will increase understeer. Hence my comment to only do this if you have the biggest rear bar fitted, or an adjustable nar. In this case change the rear bar to the stiffest setting when the front bar is fitted.
Front bar is a bugger to fit as so much has to be removed and replaced to fit.

Hope this helps.
Gerry


Thanks a lot for the length and informative reply Gerry. FYI and a few more questions here is a bit more info....

1) I went on the whiteline website and couldnt find any parts for 2nd gen magna, so I thought they didnt make them. Would be interested in price and where you got it from if you remember. I think now this will defintiely go in at the same time I do the whole suspension job. Getting costly :cry:

2) Had planned to get new bushes. I know its easy to get the nothalene bushes, and I think they are way cheaper than the rubber bushes I guess you have to buy from mitsubishi, but in the end this is a daily driver and I really to keep a bit of comfort, and I am worried about the extra harshness, vibrations and noises these can make...

3) Ive already got some 18's on the car, so this should help a lot, hopefully with the new suspension it wont be too harsh.

4) I plan on getting Lovells lows, lovells coz I heard they are supposed to be a bit softer than kings and i want to err on the side of comfort. I will actually get rear super lows coz apparently being a wagon, the 'lows' are standard height, while 'super lows' are actually low height. I rarely carry anything in the boot, especially nothign very heavy.

Philcomm Rally sells some 'Boge' shocks, apparently these are a bit more comfort biased, but are still good quality and handle Ok. I was orginally going to go Monroe sensatrac instead of the good but harsher KYB, but heard all monroe was pretty crap. Has anyoen hear heard of or tried Boge shocks???........

5) This sounds good, but didnt know they would make them for my car, where can you get them from, and rough price????

6) With price and my handlign requirement I dont think ill bother with this.

Cheers,

Ollie

Philcomm Rally sells some 'Boge' shocks, apparently these are a bit more comfort biased, but are still good quality and handle Ok. I was orginally going to go Monroe sensatrac instead of the good but harsher KYB, but heard all monroe was pretty crap. Has anyoen hear heard of or tried Boge shocks???........


i found kyb (just installed a brand new set yesterday) more firm then harsh its not a stiff ride by any means but they ride craploads better then sensatrac (had them in a work car) and never heard of Boge shocks do they have a website or anything? and with whiteline part numbers give an auto shop a ring (repco, autopro, supercheap) they do make them for the 2nd gens just not that well advertised.

i found kyb (just installed a brand new set yesterday) more firm then harsh its not a stiff ride by any means but they ride craploads better then sensatrac (had them in a work car) and never heard of Boge shocks do they have a website or anything? and with whiteline part numbers give an auto shop a ring (repco, autopro, supercheap) they do make them for the 2nd gens just not that well advertised.

Thats great since you can compare both, when you say they ride crapload better then sensatrac, I suppose you mean the comfort? also, how would you compare the two compared to stock shockies???

I only just heard of Boge, because it was mentioned by Philcomm in the forum section, did a search in google, hardly found anyhing, but the few reviews seemed to think they were pretty good, quality similar to KYB but a bit more comfort biased which is what im after.

Ollie

when i say they ride better then sensatrac that over medium to rough surface the monroes tended to stiffen up a lot almost to the point it was hurting. The kyb's while i havent taken them for a huge spin yet (thats what aussie day is for) they handled the same road a lot better keep the same dampening all the way through and stayed and sat a lot better on the road then what the sensatrac.

Ive also driven with the stock shocks in my current car (was the original monroe OE's when i brought it) they were ok until you loaded the car up or took it over some decent medium to rough surface then they tended to fatigue a bit and the car felt a bit more floaty and not as connected to the road. Theres no perfect balance between comfort and performance i would go a kyb shock with a lovell spring and use either OEM rubber bushes or mackay bushings as they are a fairly soft rubber rather then a polyurathane bush.

I just need a good pic of where it bolts up to the chassis.
the axle bit seems stright forward.
anyone?
(It is different from a 3rd gen)

Ok cool, I heard everyone saying they give a firm ride as in control, but I assumed they were obviosuly stiffer and less comfortable than stock/monroe.

With this in mind, I might even justify getting koni's??? I heard that on low bumps and the initial shock the comfort is a tad better due to not being monotube or something. along with all the feeback and reputations of koni's, this might be the way to go.

Also Mackay bushings, where do you get these, I have never heard of them. I think that the OEM rubber ones are outrageously expensive, so these ones might be good if I dont wanna go nothalene...

P.S - TUFFTR sorry for hijacking ur thread :redface:

Ollie

P.S - TUFFTR sorry for hijacking ur thread :redface:

Ollie

Lmao, i was about to mention that... lol

Ollie.
"Quote"
Thanks a lot for the length and informative reply Gerry. FYI and a few more questions here is a bit more info....

1) I went on the whiteline website and couldnt find any parts for 2nd gen magna, so I thought they didnt make them. Would be interested in price and where you got it from if you remember. I think now this will defintiely go in at the same time I do the whole suspension job. Getting costly
Main Catalogue, Bottom LH corner, Page 51 at the bottom and top of page 52.
Direct link to Webstore top RH. Select make, select car, select model range.

Top RHS. Select make than model then year. Direct to parts list.
I remember a PDF list a couple of years ago, now cannot find it. Try a direct Google of the Whiteline site.

2) Had planned to get new bushes. I know its easy to get the nothalene bushes, and I think they are way cheaper than the rubber bushes I guess you have to buy from mitsubishi, but in the end this is a daily driver and I really to keep a bit of comfort, and I am worried about the extra harshness, vibrations and noises these can make...

Caster adjust kit is KCA 320 for the 4 cylinder, KCA338 for the V6

No real difference. I had to replace a pair of badly worn bushes on the KS, decided to go to Nolathane. These were the rear, large diameter bushes on the front arms. This is the bush that does all the work when cornering. Result was a much more precise front end feel. And was much cheaper than the Mitsubishi part!

3) Ive already got some 18's on the car, so this should help a lot, hopefully with the new suspension it wont be too harsh. Problem with much lower profile tyres is that ther is much less tyre complaince.
I have ridden is a couple of commodores where the owner changed form 17's with 45 profile tyres to 18's with 40 profile tyres. The 17's were reasonable, the 18's were much harsher. One guy in a couple of months than severely damaged 2 rims in the typical Sydney potholes!
In my opinion as the car suspension has not been developed to work with such low profiles there is a big deterioration in ride comofrt.

4) I plan on getting Lovells lows, lovells coz I heard they are supposed to be a bit softer than kings and i want to err on the side of comfort. I will actually get rear super lows coz apparently being a wagon, the 'lows' are standard height, while 'super lows' are actually low height. I rarely carry anything in the boot, especially nothign very heavy.
You mentioned that you are running superlows at the front. Basically I suspect that you are running out of suspension travel over bumps.
Does the car "jiggle" rapidly up and down when driving. 2 Causes, stiff springs, insufficient shock absorber control.

Philcomm Rally sells some 'Boge' shocks, apparently these are a bit more comfort biased, but are still good quality and handle Ok. I was orginally going to go Monroe sensatrac instead of the good but harsher KYB, but heard all monroe was pretty crap. Has anyoen hear heard of or tried Boge shocks???........
Sensatrac are not recommended for lower springs. Can't comment on Boge but they are probably intended as an OE replacement part based on their website information.
Koni are good, but in my opinion were developed to provide a very controlled ride with standard springs. I have upped the rebound setting and the ride has improved with King Lows but I feel that the ride control is not as good as it should be. Maybe I'll wait for a few 000 k's and then get them rebuilt a little harder in bounce.

5) This sounds good, but didnt know they would make them for my car, where can you get them from, and rough price????
KCA 412, Whitleline, in the catalogue, same as the 3rd Gen magna around $70.

6) With price and my handlign requirement I dont think ill bother with this.
Doesn't change the harshness, just removes some of the front end lean when cornering. I would have considered this a must with your big tyres.

Gerry

Cheers,

Ollie

Hope these photos help. It's my TS sedan.
Keep the brackets on the rear of the bar as close to the flanged part as in the photo otherwise it hits something when you go over a bump.
The front bracket is awkward to fit and I got it done professionally for $180 and at the same time got the bracket welded as well as bolted, if it's not welded it could twist under load.
You have to tighten everything up with the car on the ground which is extremely difficult especially if you have it lowered, if you have access to a hoist that would be great.
You will notice a huge difference on cornering, it's well worth fitting.
http://i29.tinypic.com/i3f5t5.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/rvj7r5.jpg

Awesome!
Knew someone must of had a picture.
Looks pretty simple to do.
might jack the car up then jack the axle up at the back so its like its at stock lowered height.

Cheers.
That L bracket was the bit that was confuzzling me.

Another photo of the left side from a different angle.
It's not difficult to do, it's just like a lot of jobs on a car the problem is getting to it
A hoist would make it soooo easy.
Connect it to the rear axle loosely and swing it up and the position becomes self explanatory
http://i32.tinypic.com/vpxk3k.jpg

Sweet man, i assembled the bushes and stuff on the bar just gotta order in one of the missing brackets.

Now where it bolts into (where that L bracket is) is that a pre-exsisting bolt?

Am not sure if that hole exists or whether the installer drilled it, best to slide under your own car and have a look.
I bought mine a few years ago brand new and it didn't come with the hanger (threaded rod) and I couldn't get one, which was one of the reasons I paid to get it fitted, no regrets tho' well worth it.

Got it put in today.
Car is alot more stable through corners now.
I can now take roundabouts @ 100km/h and not go into a drift. used to be 20km/h before the swaybar, highly recommended :)

sounds good, if i see 1 will hafta get it

sounds good, if i see 1 will hafta get it
Picked it up 2nd hand cause it was the wrong one for his car (was a wagon)
So saved $100 on a NEW sway bar.
Only cost me $17 for one of the missing brackets.
scorrre

Awesome thread.

I have the Lovells lows (front) and superlows (rear)/ExcelG combination on my wagon which goes great but I find the car jiggly over any bumps (then again, it was like this on the original springs too).

It also often feels like the car is moving backwards and forwards over the wheels. I wonder if a there's anything I can do about that?

Awesome thread.

I have the Lovells lows (front) and superlows (rear)/ExcelG combination on my wagon which goes great but I find the car jiggly over any bumps (then again, it was like this on the original springs too).

It also often feels like the car is moving backwards and forwards over the wheels. I wonder if a there's anything I can do about that?

Hmmm not too sure what you mean about that.
I would really recommend you get the swaybar. It sort of completes the suspension work, now its lowered, and actually handles decently, instead of just being lowered. for a 15 year old car i'm pretty darn impressed with how it takes corners now

']for a 15 year old car i'm pretty darn impressed with how it takes corners now

Until you cross the 60km/h barrier... lol

Until you cross the 60km/h barrier... lol
Gutter to gutter uleh

']Got it put in today.
Car is alot more stable through corners now.
I can now take roundabouts @ 100km/h and not go into a drift. used to be 20km/h before the swaybar, highly recommended :)

I knew you would notice a difference, it will be alot flatter through corners and more comfortable for driver and passengers and a good safety mod too in case you misjudge a corner, IMO the best mod you can do to a second gen

Awesome thread.

I have the Lovells lows (front) and superlows (rear)/ExcelG combination on my wagon which goes great but I find the car jiggly over any bumps (then again, it was like this on the original springs too).

It also often feels like the car is moving backwards and forwards over the wheels. I wonder if a there's anything I can do about that?

I think I know what you mean.
I experienced something similar when I lowered mine (sedan) on Lovells lows all round and KYB's.
Not a forward/backward movement but a side to side, was minimal but there definately was something there.
After a while I never noticed it anymore, suppose I just got used to it, I would think it's just a characteristic of a lowered Magna.