My awd car is now being given the works at RPW, and from their initial inspection, we have been able to choose a normal 6G74 block to do the new engine build up, saving heaps of time. It appears that a standard block only needs minimal grinding of a couple of brackets to fit the awd engine bay. It does not affect the integrity of the block.

We are also going to trial the Greddy to see if it can do a similar duty to the Haltech E8. There seems little point in exceeding the factory tune at lower rpm with a tippy auto transmission. Although the extra resolution of the Haltech may be the better choice in the end.

I don't know anything about the Greddy, but was told it is very easy to upload different tunes via a laptop. That way it can have a lazy 300hp atw as a daily driver and in a few minutes be changed to handle racing fuel.

My awd car is now being given the works at RPW, and from their initial inspection, we have been able to choose a normal 6G74 block to do the new engine build up, saving heaps of time. It appears that a standard block only needs minimal grinding of a couple of brackets to fit the awd engine bay. It does not affect the integrity of the block.

We are also going to trial the Greddy to see if it can do a similar duty to the Haltech E8. There seems little point in exceeding the factory tune at lower rpm with a tippy auto transmission. Although the extra resolution of the Haltech may be the better choice in the end.

I don't know anything about the Greddy, but was told it is very easy to upload different tunes via a laptop. That way it can have a lazy 300hp atw as a daily driver and in a few minutes be changed to handle racing fuel.

What is "The Works"?? You mention 300hp at the wheels so I'm guessing its more than just cams and head work.

By Daves own admission - the Greddy is the reason he ended up blowing 2 engines. Having said that - I'm running a emanage, and as far as I know so is Adam in Sydney (another RPW TT recipient) with no engine problems, but a standalone ECU is definitely the way to go in my opinion.

Oh BTW - 300hp at the the wheels thru a AWD tippy??? You must be dropping a ****ing fortune!!!

*edit* - I myself haven't played around with the emanage or Haltech software interfaces, but I do know for a fact that they both have software interfaces to control all aspects of the ECU, so I can't see how the emanage would be that much easier to upload different tunes than the haltech, once the tunes are programmed and saved, it's just a matter of loading whichever tune you want from the laptop into the ECU thru the supplied cable. The main difference between Greddy and Haltech E8 is going to be cost. The Greddy is about $600 (including ignition and injection harness) and the Haltech E8's are around $1200 for the unit alone, and E8 will probably require a bit more tuning time due to the fact that it is full replacement so they will have to manually configure the idle stepper and other ****.

Even the basic Haltech interceptor could carry two tunes on the ecu and could be wired to a simple switch to change between them. Also the Haltech software is very easy to use and you could chose from any number of saved tunes stored on a hard drive if you were forced to use a laptop.

What is "The Works"?? You mention 300hp at the wheels so I'm guessing its more than just cams and head work.

Stock cams and minimal porting on the heads.

I'm running the sprintex at only 7-8 psi with bigger injectors and bigger fuel system plus forged pistons. The forgies let me pull the timing back, that's where the potential is.

If I go beyond 7psi I need an intercooler and cams. But that would be more like 400hp at the wheels and a new transmission.

so what exactly are RPW doing apart from the computer??

so what exactly are RPW doing apart from the computer??


I'm running the sprintex at only 7-8 psi with bigger injectors and bigger fuel system plus forged pistons.

installing that, I would say.

cheers,
.wook

Stock cams and minimal porting on the heads.

I'm running the sprintex at only 7-8 psi with bigger injectors and bigger fuel system plus forged pistons. The forgies let me pull the timing back, that's where the potential is.

If I go beyond 7psi I need an intercooler and cams. But that would be more like 400hp at the wheels and a new transmission.

Interested to follow your progress. Though IMO you aint gonna get 300 wheel hp with auto awd tranny and the standard sprintex pulley. What do you mean "forgies let me pull the timing back?

I still understand why none of the sprinex owners have gone intercooling, I would have thought it would be the next logical step. Why blow big $$$ on rebuilding with forgies when you could get the same sort of safety from intercooling? Not to mention more consistentcy.

If you aren't raising boost I don't see how forgies can give you more power, the point of them is that the extra strength allows you to safely run more boost.

Interested to follow your progress. Though IMO you aint gonna get 300 wheel hp with auto awd tranny and the standard sprintex pulley. What do you mean "forgies let me pull the timing back?

I still understand why none of the sprinex owners have gone intercooling, I would have thought it would be the next logical step. Why blow big $$$ on rebuilding with forgies when you could get the same sort of safety from intercooling? Not to mention more consistentcy.

from the tone of your comment, I'm assuming that you DON'T understand why we haven't gone with intercooling.

it's too much work to intercool these blowers. water/meth injection is the best/cheapest solution to safely increase power and/or boost, and I think you'd still want to throw some forgies in for peace of mind. intercooling would involve a huge amount of piping, and I don't think it's really feasible.

cheers,
.wook

Its damn near impossible to intercool them - the only technology that would go close is a laminova core, but getting enough of those in there (need 3 for efficient cooling) would require bonnet mods.

A front mount is also impossible, nowhere to get the source air from (ie over blower - return is easy).

Topmount is the only possible solution, but then you need to put a bonnet scoop in, weather seals, hack up the manifold, work out how to stop the water from getting into the dizzy and injectors etc etc.

This is why no-one is intercooling. Its basically impossible to do without hacking up the manifold or the bonnet. Water methanol injection is the ONLY sensible option.

There is only 10mm bonnet clearance between the top of the manifold and supports.

There is only 10mm bonnet clearance between the top of the manifold and supports.

not in my car there's not... :(

I think 300hp atw is attainable.

If you follow the legacy of the rpw development tt magna, it was making around 360 hp at the front wheels on only 7 or 8 psi (need to check, but not far off).

From my previous experience, the standard pistons are simply not up to the task, which is why we get a conservative tune from sprintex and maybe 230hp at the wheels on a good day. Forgies allow the timing to be pulled right out to the point of detonation without concerns about spalling peices of metal. I've already freed up the exhaust and will be ramming in heaps more fuel this time with an agressive tune, so even with the losses of the auto awd, it seems plausible that 300kw at the flywheel will be attained (30% drivetrain loss = 300hp atw).

On intercooling, I have explored this option and it would be a custom installation, unknown $$. The box around the s/c needs modification and series of cooling tubes that looks a bit like a tranny cooler would be fitted. Not as effective as the huge i/c you can put on a turbo car, but would offer some benefits.

Until I have established the practical limits of the drivetrain, and what the replacement options are, I'm not willing to increase the drive speed to the s/c and spend big $$ on a custom intercooler.

I think 300hp atw is attainable.

If you follow the legacy of the rpw development tt magna, it was making around 360 hp at the front wheels on only 7 or 8 psi (need to check, but not far off).

From my previous experience, the standard pistons are simply not up to the task, which is why we get a conservative tune from sprintex and maybe 230hp at the wheels on a good day. Forgies allow the timing to be pulled right out to the point of detonation without concerns about spalling peices of metal. I've already freed up the exhaust and will be ramming in heaps more fuel this time with an agressive tune, so even with the losses of the auto awd, it seems plausible that 300kw at the flywheel will be attained (30% drivetrain loss = 300hp atw).

On intercooling, I have explored this option and it would be a custom installation, unknown $$. The box around the s/c needs modification and series of cooling tubes that looks a bit like a tranny cooler would be fitted. Not as effective as the huge i/c you can put on a turbo car, but would offer some benefits.

Until I have established the practical limits of the drivetrain, and what the replacement options are, I'm not willing to increase the drive speed to the s/c and spend big $$ on a custom intercooler.
dave got 300hp with heaps of head work, turbo cams, adjustable came gears etc. if you're not going cams or more boost then u wont see similar numbers, especially through an auto and 4 wheels. my ralliart made 255hp on the standard boost, then around the 300hp mark at 10½psi and thats a 2WD manual.

good luck all the same, if you're throwing this kind of money at the engine maybe PM Skaboy about his transmisson, big gains to be made there

dave got 300hp with heaps of head work, turbo cams, adjustable came gears etc. if you're not going cams or more boost then u wont see similar numbers, especially through an auto and 4 wheels. my ralliart made 255hp on the standard boost, then around the 300hp mark at 10½psi and thats a 2WD manual.

good luck all the same, if you're throwing this kind of money at the engine maybe PM Skaboy about his transmisson, big gains to be made there

I'm not going to argue with a fellow member of the bent piston club.

I'm not going to argue with a fellow member of the bent piston club.
ohh no they didnt bend, they exploded! haha

ohh no they didnt bend, they exploded! haha


you wanted that to happen

from the tone of your comment, I'm assuming that you DON'T understand why we haven't gone with intercooling.

it's too much work to intercool these blowers. water/meth injection is the best/cheapest solution to safely increase power and/or boost, and I think you'd still want to throw some forgies in for peace of mind. intercooling would involve a huge amount of piping, and I don't think it's really feasible.

cheers,
.wook

Fair enough, I was under the impression intercooling the blower setup would be only a little difficult logistics wise, not the utter nightmare it actually would be by the sounds of it.



If you follow the legacy of the rpw development tt magna, it was making around 360 hp at the front wheels on only 7 or 8 psi (need to check, but not far off).


Keep in mind boost isn't a measure of volume, but restriction/pressure. I.e you can't directly compare boost readings with turbos or blowers that are significantly different in size. E.g a factory skyline blower @15psi is flowing a hell of alot less than one of the monster aftermarket turbos rated for 1000 hp @15psi.

Supercharger sucks through the TB Christholm not blow through like turbo's or turbo style superchargers and no blow off valve either

300hp at the wheels on an awd with 7psi NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN NOT EVEN WITH ALL THE TIMING IN THE WORLD

300hp at the wheels on an awd with 10.5psi Possible but unprobable

There's 1 way your going to get 300hp at the wheels on 7psi and that's with a very very happy dyno or do it right and cam the thing.......

Supercharger sucks through the TB Christholm not blow through like turbo's or turbo style superchargers and no blow off valve either

300hp at the wheels on an awd with 7psi NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN NOT EVEN WITH ALL THE TIMING IN THE WORLD

300hp at the wheels on an awd with 10.5psi Possible but unprobable

There's 1 way your going to get 300hp at the wheels on 7psi and that's with a very very happy dyno or do it right and cam the thing.......

more than 15k spent now, it will get 300hp.

There is such a thing as a cool morning and 102 RON fuel.

otherwise hand me the stillnox bottle.

more than 15k spent now, it will get 300hp.

There is such a thing as a cool morning and 102 RON fuel.

otherwise hand me the stillnox bottle.


Yeah that's about what I've spent by the time i get my car back on the road and I'll have a hell of a lot more power than you on pump fuel. You wont get 300hp at the wheels on 7psi.

more than 15k spent now, it will get 300hp.

There is such a thing as a cool morning and 102 RON fuel.

otherwise hand me the stillnox bottle.

good luck on your 300hp at all 4 wheels chase.

Whats your plans with the auto? It definetely isnt rated to anywhere near that type of power.

good luck on your 300hp at all 4 wheels chase.

Whats your plans with the auto? It definetely isnt rated to anywhere near that type of power.

i smell a evo drivetrain conversion coming :P

good luck on your 300hp at all 4 wheels chase.

Whats your plans with the auto? It definetely isnt rated to anywhere near that type of power.
I read somewhere it's rated to about 700Nm torque and some of the EVO boys are putting an easy 200kwatw through it.

I read somewhere it's rated to about 700Nm torque and some of the EVO boys are putting an easy 200kwatw through it.

700nm: I'd like to believe this.

It is torque that kills them. I've heard 550nm is about the limit for my drivetrain before things get nasty.

All I need is the ability to deliver 550nm at 5100 rpm.

otherwise hand me the stillnox bottle.

That is the most disturbing thing in the whole thread! Don't do this, even if you must use pharmacological help, there is other alternatives! Thats one strange benzo-like compound

good luck with your modding tbb hope you injoy you car when it's done that is all that matters :P

I read somewhere it's rated to about 700Nm torque and some of the EVO boys are putting an easy 200kwatw through it.
The magna auto's?

Nah they are rated by mitsubishi at 220hp and around 300torque. According the the Mitsu guys i was speaking to way back in the day when i worked for Hella.

Perhaps one of the trans specialists can strengthen it somehow?

The magna auto's?

Nah they are rated by mitsubishi at 220hp and around 300torque. According the the Mitsu guys i was speaking to way back in the day when i worked for Hella.

Perhaps one of the trans specialists can strengthen it somehow?

We're talking about an AWD magna though - which by all accounts takes its drivetrain (gearbox included if I remember correctly) from some form of EVO. And we all know EVO's are the best car ever made.

We're talking about an AWD magna though - which by all accounts takes its drivetrain (gearbox included if I remember correctly) from some form of EVO. And we all know EVO's are the best car ever made.

ahh ok.. i thought they still used the standard gearbox..

yeah we all know EVO's are the only car ever produced to destroy all things on the planet by just revving it to 3k rpm...

yeah we all know EVO's are the only car ever produced to destroy all things on the planet by just revving it to 3k rpm...
............*Waits for Disciple to respond to this comment* lol

haha, more like waiting for himto turn the ignition key and destroy all of AMC for mocking his glory

If you own an Evo, you don't have to respond.....
Anyway, go for it tbb, I won't say it can't be done.
300kw at the crank? There must be a precedent out there for cubes vs kw; this would be same kw/litre as a 5l producing 428kw at the crank? (getting late, but think thats right)
Surely theres a blown 5l putting out these figures ( thinking Ford/ Holden single cam for fair comparison )
for that matter, what's an evo, 200+ kw from 2l turbo ( not such a fair comparison, but theres a lot more than 200kw available too)
just keep spending $$ and it will happen

Pretty sure the 6g74 has handled pretty good levels of boost (15ish psi or more) with just tougher pistons. 10psi belt and h2o/meth injection i think the 300hpatw would be attainable.

Also as you're on boost and spending a fair bit of money i'd get rid of the MAS sensor quite the bottle neck for boost. Full aftermarket ecu or similar make future mods so much easier too.

Saying that i'd just do the whole she bang now. Rods and bolts are off the crank to replace pistons anyway so really now would be a good time to harden up that bottom end. You'd only be basically paying parts wouldnt you.
Cams and springs and headwork you can do later anyway just keep the heads together when you pull them off.

Also did you know you were going to go this nuts for a while? i defs would've TT'd in that case. Love to do that to a 3rd gen awd one day with full rebuild.

Are you retaining stock compression ratio?

if you're throwing this kind of money at the engine maybe PM Skaboy about his transmisson, big gains to be made there
TZABOY - what's special about "Skaboy"'s trans?

-Dan

We're talking about an AWD magna though - which by all accounts takes its drivetrain (gearbox included if I remember correctly) from some form of EVO. And we all know EVO's are the best car ever made.
Same diffs and drivetrain as the EVO 6, same INVECS II auto from the EVO 7.5 GTA.

tbb,
before you buy injectors to suit, which buy RPW prices are around the $1000 mark for the set, have a look at what else is avaliable. I've got a set of toyota OEM ones going in my car which are a dime a dozen, just have to space the rail up off the manifold by about 5mm's

Pretty sure the 6g74 has handled pretty good levels of boost (15ish psi or more) with just tougher pistons. 10psi belt and h2o/meth injection i think the 300hpatw would be attainable.

Also as you're on boost and spending a fair bit of money i'd get rid of the MAS sensor quite the bottle neck for boost. Full aftermarket ecu or similar make future mods so much easier too.

Saying that i'd just do the whole she bang now. Rods and bolts are off the crank to replace pistons anyway so really now would be a good time to harden up that bottom end. You'd only be basically paying parts wouldnt you.
Cams and springs and headwork you can do later anyway just keep the heads together when you pull them off.

Also did you know you were going to go this nuts for a while? i defs would've TT'd in that case. Love to do that to a 3rd gen awd one day with full rebuild.

Are you retaining stock compression ratio?

I dont see the point of upgrading the crank, because wasnt it dave from RPW who is still using the same standard crank in his 500hp+ Magna?
And even in the US the 3L stock cranks are being used in 1000hp+ engines with no problems.

i'm probably paying too much for 390cc injectors and the pump, but it's a package deal.

also we were originaly going with the haltech e8, but dave wants to trial the greddy. I think we will probably end up going for higher resolution e8 in the end.

other than forgies and bolts, no other internal mods. the rpw magna has not stretched its stock conrods or crank even with nearly 600hp.

as for the strength of the invecs tippy box I believe 550nm is about the limit. just need to find a way of producing 550nm at 5100rpm and there's the magic power number of 400hp at the flywheel. a big cam probably would not help here.

with 8.8:1 pistons and just 7-8 psi this is always going to be a challenge. last time this unit was dynoed, the reading was nearly 8psi across the range and 9psi at cut-out.

102ron and a cold day on the dyno could help a lot too.

Also did you know you were going to go this nuts for a while? i defs would've TT'd in that case.



tt is not my preference. the twin screw s/c delivers almost the same boost across the entire rev range and is a totally more civilised drive. the low down torque characteristics are far better for a heavy auto awd.

yes I knew this would be an on going endeavour of madness.

also we were originaly going with the haltech e8, but dave wants to trial the greddy. I think we will probably end up going for higher resolution e8 in the end.



I just don't understand why he would want to "trial the greddy". The guy should have more experience with anyone in the country when it comes to tuning magnas with the emanage.

I just don't understand why he would want to "trial the greddy". The guy should have more experience with anyone in the country when it comes to tuning magnas with the emanage.

maybe he is trialing it on another car ready to be put into his TT?

maybe he is trialing it on another car ready to be put into his TT?

He had one on his TT for years and has probably installed / tuned them on dozens of other magnas, boosted & NA.

He ditched the Emanage system on his own car about a year ago claiming it didn't give enough control and blaming it for contributing to 2 engine failures.

I just don't understand why he would want to "trial the greddy". The guy should have more experience with anyone in the country when it comes to tuning magnas with the emanage.

We all know why, because he prefers to destroy others cars instead of his own which last we heard was only a lease car anyway!

Wonder if poor old nick ever got his money for the $2k + damage done to his engine :confused:

We all know why, because he prefers to destroy others cars instead of his own which last we heard was only a lease car anyway!

Wonder if poor old nick ever got his money for the $2k + damage done to his engine :confused:
i remember nicks car! sounded like a tractor on heat!

tt is not my preference. the twin screw s/c delivers almost the same boost across the entire rev range and is a totally more civilised drive. the low down torque characteristics are far better for a heavy auto awd.

yes I knew this would be an on going endeavour of madness.

i mean cause if you tt'd you could aim this build for 20psi.

Also i didnt mean replace the crank. They're good from stock.

i remember nicks car! sounded like a tractor on heat!

What's this do tell?

this was back a few years.
he has a honda accord now.

if i remember correctly he purchased some stage two cams and yeh was really bad from there and caused alot of problems

Ahh that, I seen old posts of that. Bit of a up on RPW's behalf

In short, he purchased cams, the first set did not work, they were 3.0l cams, the dist would not line up.

Sent them back, eventually got a second set, these rattled like hell

they went back, "new improved grind" was sent, he in th mean time did the valve springs, adjustable cam gears etc. Put it all together and it sounded like a tractor with bad fuel, and went about the same.

got the std cams put back in, low compression on almost every cyl, they took off the heads, something like 18 out of 24 valves were bent.

He phoned and phoned, got promise after promise for refund of parts and labour, he never received a cent last time I spoke to him a while back.

believe some guys in the states that received the same set of "special" cams had exactly the same issues

Sounds like a monumental F up!:rant:

well we are back to using the haltech. this time the E11 has been suggested.

RPW is sticking the haltech on tomorrow or next day to establish a safe base tune before the engine transplant.

The replacement block has just been bored and will be getting the forgies in next. Probably pretty lame running for a couple of thousand kms until pistons are run in then we can give it curry on the dyno.

Still keeping 7-8psi boost and stock cam profile. Just a little bit of head work mostly on the exhaust side. Hopefully back on the road sometime in the next month. I'm sick of the landcruiser already.

well we are back to using the haltech. this time the E11 has been suggested.



Can I ask why the E11?? I mean don't get me wrong - it's a great computer, but why if he uses the E6X in his car, and it's obviously sufficient to handle the task of a boosted 6G74 would Dave "suggest" something that is twice the price??

Okay - maybe I just answered my own question...

Can I ask why the E11?? I mean don't get me wrong - it's a great computer, but why if he uses the E6X in his car, and it's obviously sufficient to handle the task of a boosted 6G74 would Dave "suggest" something that is twice the price??

Okay - maybe I just answered my own question...

the e11 is a better unit mike the extra pins could be used on a number of different area ie different boost for different gears on turbo set ups. It has a few more features too.

I had a convo with Jase about it when he was tuning my car though he said the e6x was fine for my car. He should add knowledge here.

**** paying for labour. Also tuning i think its about time i learnt how to.

Can I ask why the E11?? I mean don't get me wrong - it's a great computer, but why if he uses the E6X in his car, and it's obviously sufficient to handle the task of a boosted 6G74 would Dave "suggest" something that is twice the price??

Okay - maybe I just answered my own question...

Auto box? Transfer case? Developing this on someone elses car for himself?

the e11 is a better unit mike the extra pins could be used on a number of different area ie different boost for different gears on turbo set ups. It has a few more features too.



Yeah I know all that (infact the E11v2 is the ECU I hope to have running my car one day), but I was just asking the question because I got the impression from his post that he was being steered towards the E11 by RPW. But maybe I'm wrong - maybe tbb has done the research and decided that he wants the E11 and $$$ aren't an issue.

Jesus, the more I hear about RPW...

Yeah I know all that (infact the E11v2 is the ECU I hope to have running my car one day), but I was just asking the question because I got the impression from his post that he was being steered towards the E11 by RPW. But maybe I'm wrong - maybe tbb has done the research and decided that he wants the E11 and $$$ aren't an issue.

Mate, $$$ are never a part of the decision making process if you want a Magna to go fast.

I have done limited research and will accept the mitsubishi specialists advice until there is a stuff up. Then we swear alot and get over it.

I chose the sprintex originally because it is well engineered for the duty and I consider the AEC sprintex people to be highly credible and professional, and my experience with them has proved this to be case on several occassions.

Now I am exceeding the tolerances and original specifications of the sprintex OEM and prefer to take advice from a mitsubishi engine specialist. It would be unfair to expect AEC sprintex to take the level of risk I am taking now. They will continue to receive my endorsement as manufacturers and suppliers of integrated supercharger packages.

If Dave gets this right he can expect similar praise. He seems like a nice chap with the requisite experience and I can only hope his competence matches his attitude. The E11 seems to offer the option of full sequential injection and more channels. This may or may not be excessive for the current round of modifications.

But if I take things to next level such as smaller pulley on the s/c or trying to make a turbo blow through the s/c, the basic framework will be there.

The car has been off the road for about two months now. It seems a farily busy workshop atm.

The exchange motor is just about built up, but I'm planning on taking the car back with just the e11 hooked up for a test drive until the motor is ready for swap over, at least i'll have my wheels back for a little while, maybe destroy another set of pistons experimenting with the new computer........