Has anyone ever experienced vibration or other drive shaft problems as a result of lowering?

I'm still tracking down residual driveline vibration in my TS wagon. My mechanic has suggested that it's possibly sagged engine mounts (they look fine) in combination with the Lovells low springs causing the shafts to vibrate under acceleration.

So, can anyone who has had problems as a result of lowering please chime in?

I have lowered Brock Commodores, BMW's and Magnas and never had the problem despite some incredibly high mileages on some of my cars

i still wanna know if lowering TL+ affects the EBD sensor.

I believe it's widely accepted that lowering a Magna will put extra stress on the CV joints and thus chop them out faster.
It makes sense, as the drive shafts won't coming out of the diff or going into the CV's at the angle they were originally designed for.

I would think the more severe the lowering, the more severe the impact.

-Dan

I believe it's widely accepted that lowering a Magna will put extra stress on the CV joints and thus chop them out faster.
It makes sense, as the drive shafts won't coming out of the diff or going into the CV's at the angle they were originally designed for.

I would think the more severe the lowering, the more severe the impact.

-Dan
but what if the C'Vs are sitting straight, will it still chop them out

You don't have aftermarket wheels do you? having a different sized centre bore can cause those symptons.

Nope. I'm on stock steelies.

We've looked at a range of things and a fair amount of money has been spent, and it's getting down to engine mounts and lowering. If the engine is flopping about or has sagged on the mounts than, in combination with 25mm of lowering, the drive shafts could be operating too far out of their normal range. Thing is, the mounts look fine and the engine can't be seen moving excessively in stationary tests.

I'd hate to have to put the stock springs back in. I don't like the 4wd look.:sick:

Lots of people have very lowered cars on this forum. If lowering were the culprit surely someone else would have experienced it?

i still wanna know if lowering TL+ affects the EBD sensor.

The EBD system uses the ABS sensors and ABS hydraulic unit to operate, so I don't think lowering will affect the EBD system at all.

Nope. I'm on stock steelies.

We've looked at a range of things and a fair amount of money has been spent, and it's getting down to engine mounts and lowering. If the engine is flopping about or has sagged on the mounts than, in combination with 25mm of lowering, the drive shafts could be operating too far out of their normal range. Thing is, the mounts look fine and the engine can't be seen moving excessively in stationary tests.

I'd hate to have to put the stock springs back in. I don't like the 4wd look.:sick:

Lots of people have very lowered cars on this forum. If lowering were the culprit surely someone else would have experienced it?

since ive lowered my car i tend to get a bit of a shudder when going up hills, but other then that the ride is fairly smooth and vibration free.

The EBD system uses the ABS sensors and ABS hydraulic unit to operate, so I don't think lowering will affect the EBD system at all.

i'll check book in a few mins i think theres a sensor somewhere

but what if the C'Vs are sitting straight, will it still chop them out

If the car is lowered, surely the diff is closer to the ground... and if you don't change the rolling circumference of your wheels (much) then surely the center of the CV is still at the height it was.

In my head, that means the drive shaft now angles *up* from leaving the diff to entering the CV.
Sounds like a change from design to me, and most changes from design will wear things quicker.

EDIT: to clarify - I don't actually know if by design the drive shafts are parallel (to the ground) - but whatever angle they leave the diff and enter the CV's at, this *must* change if you lower the car.

-Dan

When I lowered my TX3 a few years ago it stuffed one of the CVs. It must of been on the way out already and the new angle of the driveshaft was enough to push it over the edge. Was noisy as hell. Thought one of the wheels was scraping the body.

Dont know about a vibration though.

In the new commodores the Active Stability Device or whatever ist called goes nuts when you lower more than 2', it changes the center of gravity, the computer is thinking its going into a slide when its not, or some crap like that.

Magnas do not have this so dont worry about it.

As for the CV shafts, aslong as are within limits of movement it wont cause any problems.
But rule of thumb is that for every degree off centre you loose power in the shaft to transfer the power...

SO basically when the shaft is level you get 100% power to the wheel. And less torquing of the shaft.

wont mess up your drive shaft but your inner CV's might. their are many ppl here who have their magnas slammed with 20's or even steelies and they havnt had problems. but i had my 3rd gen magna lowered on king springs super low compressed with 18" wheels and i went through 2 inner CV's

on a side note, if you dont want the springs anymore, id be more then happy to to adopt them:D

We're going to look closely at the engine mounts this week and see if there's anything wrong there. If there isn't I'll swap out the springs to eliminate that as a possible cause.

This whole thing is doing my head in.

i had a servere vibration under acceleration at about 100kmh after i put my 17's on (may have been there a touch before hand but not sure, and i never tried putting the 16's back on to see if it went away) upon close inspection of the main engine mount i discovered it was stuff (that is the polite way of putting it). where the bolt runs through the centre was held on by a stip about 1mm thick . then if you pulled that bit down at the other side of the mount it was only just holding on as well. so basically it had torn into a Z shape. put a new engine mount in and now there is only a very slight vibration which i think is just because the tyres need a balance.

oh and my engine didn't move very much on stationary tests either.

do you think it would make any difference if it was lower at the back then the front with the power loss? becuase wouldnt the drive shaft then be falling backwards, hence that with every degree it looses power? hhrrmmm.. because mine sags in the rear end.:doubt:

im yet to run into any problems with me CV joints? tubs and shocks yes.although i havent had anything inspected. id fall into the slamd on 20's section, on 15's at the moment. only problems i have is i get stuck entering /leaving car parks :S

i too have a vibration problem under load since i lowered my xi i have lovell ultra lows and its on the bump stops.....i think it is the cv's im still trying to find the fault

And now for some advice that may actually help, given that I have been down this road many times :)

Did you or your mechanic reset your lower control arm bushes when the new springs went in.

If the vibration is on coast and moderate accel can be the outer joint.

This myth of there being more load on the joints is just that, a myth. The difference in ange is that slight it does not matter, the inner DOJ joint may feel it the most because of the difference in distance once lowered, although slight may have the inner joint bearings tracking in a slightly different location

Yes this can have the same effect on both second and third gen

My old Pajero had a 55mm lift with maximum negative camber cranked onto the front & rear wheels to stop tyre wear. It had done about 80000k when I traded it on the 380 & no probs with drive shaft vibration/wear front or rear, although the fronts were only driving the vehicle in 4wd.

a bit unrelated but...

i believe the Holden SSX (the Commodore hatchback) had a bit of problem with being lowered.

ran fine in stock prototype form... then they lowered it for a car show... and waddled like a duck ever since.

[QUOTE=TR 300000]
I'm still tracking down residual driveline vibration in my TS wagon. My mechanic has suggested that it's possibly sagged engine mounts (they look fine).

If your mounts are shagged but still intact here's how to fix them (well atleast stop them sagging but i bet your mechanic won't do it so it might be a job for yourself).
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32670&highlight=diy+solid+engine+mount

only draw back is slight vibration in the cabin but less stress on the drive train ,smoother acceleration basiclly it feels like the engine is more responsive cause it rocks around less.
food for thought.

You will find if you got harder/sport suspention that the extra shock on your cv's will eat them quicker. From the constant Bang Bang every time you hit a bump in the road. Also if you just put in lower springs and dont change the stock shocks after a while they sagg untill when you hit bumps you hit the bump stops. This is because they are designed for a specific height and dont work well 2" lower. Speaking from experience then you snap your drive shaft and cv and put it right into the gearbox.

But then on the good side you can justify buying an air bag kit....

Cheers

You will find if you got harder/sport suspention that the extra shock on your cv's will eat them quicker. From the constant Bang Bang every time you hit a bump in the road. Also if you just put in lower springs and dont change the stock shocks after a while they sagg untill when you hit bumps you hit the bump stops. This is because they are designed for a specific height and dont work well 2" lower. Speaking from experience then you snap your drive shaft and cv and put it right into the gearbox.

But then on the good side you can justify buying an air bag kit....

Cheers

Please can you show some sort of evedence of your post.

I do not want to flame you but I have been a mechanic for many years, ahve worked on FWD cars for as many years and have never seen the above.

The geometary alone of the front end would make what you have stated impossible, this would mean that every WRX, Commodore, Falcon, etc etc that have been lowered would ahve the same problem ??

Please do not take this the wrong way but also please do not state opinion, stick to fact.

What you say about the bump stops is true to an extent, I ALWAYS recommend new dampers with springs however if the car is low mileage I would again not bother.

Please can you show some sort of evedence of your post.

I do not want to flame you but I have been a mechanic for many years, ahve worked on FWD cars for as many years and have never seen the above.

The geometary alone of the front end would make what you have stated impossible, this would mean that every WRX, Commodore, Falcon, etc etc that have been lowered would ahve the same problem ??

Please do not take this the wrong way but also please do not state opinion, stick to fact.

What you say about the bump stops is true to an extent, I ALWAYS recommend new dampers with springs however if the car is low mileage I would again not bother.

My cars got 170.XXX on the clock. Over time after i put new springs in (didnt replace dampers and dont know if they had ever been changed) the car sagged in the frount over a couple of years(possibly for a variety of reasons). Till when it hit pot holes ect they smacked down on the bump stops. Then then cv and drive shaft snapped went throught the gearbox.

My machanic told me that aswell and he was the one who serviced it all the time, pulled it of the truck when it broke and then fixed it.

WRX? Commodore? Falcon?... im guessing they have been known to snap drivshafts or need CV's replaced, and im sure if they were 10 years old a lowered to the point where they hit the stops this could contribute. In a new car dropping it 2 inches on original struts wont do a thing. Mine probally needed replacing a long time before i got to them.

so its not bad for you struts to be constantly 2" lower? it wont wear them out quicker?

im only new so flame away if im wrong but im just going from what happened and what my mechanic said.

Cheers

I used to have a kr verada with the hieght adjustable suspension, when set to full low it would shake under power, lift the suspension up to it's normal ride height and the shaking would go away, just before i sold it i put new cv's in and the problem all but dissapeared.

Now I've just bought a 99 magna from auction that is very low, it has the same shaking, so the first thing i'm going to do is replace the shafts...

Very worn shafts may cause some issue but I am really yet to see it. I have seen stock camry's with shafts poking out from underneath.

It is all called maintainence....