Well for about 9 months now ive been experiencing my battery being drained while car is parked..

It drains at a rate of fully charged to car wont start after 5-7 days.. it wasnt a issue when i used to drive it plenty but is now as i only usually drive it weekends.

I had a the Alternator reconditioned and 6 months ago and thought that was the issue. it charges up fine just looses power when not being used.. Ive noticed in the past two months its getting worse. going flat in 4-5 days.

Ive got 3 things fitted to the car that are non factory and that is two amps and a blue tooth car kit(been in for 3 years). ive unplugged the car kits power but it still does it. ive put both amps on a circut breaker so i can flick a switch when i park as i thought it was that but its not. I charged the battery up last tue over nite and today the little window on the battery is reading red which means flat.. i cant start it as bits missing off engine.

I want to know if anyone with a TJ has hd a power drain issue and what was the cause..

Looks for ideas or some thoughts..

Cheers
Jason :)

Might sound stupid, but you might want to double check an interior light or boot light is not stuck on. Its happened before....

Otherwise might be difficult to find. I just thought if it was me probably a good idea of trying to find the cause is by taking a different fuse out everytime and seeing if that stops the problem, then you can trace where its coming from.

Otherwise how old is your battery, it could just be getting old??? If its 3 years or older I would think its probably the battery.

Ollie

Might sound stupid, but you might want to double check an interior light or boot light is not stuck on. Its happened before....

Otherwise might be difficult to find. I just thought if it was me probably a good idea of trying to find the cause is by taking a different fuse out everytime and seeing if that stops the problem, then you can trace where its coming from.

Otherwise how old is your battery, it could just be getting old??? If its 3 years or older I would think its probably the battery.

Ollie


Battery is 6 or so months old.. thats what i thought too.. Ive checked lights but it not it. i even climbed into the boot to check that one..:)

Dissconnect either the + or - battery terminal and connect an ammeter in series.

With everything off it should read 0

If not pull out fuses 1 at a time until it drops to 0.

When the current drops, that circuit is where your power drain is, check along that circuit to see whats draining your current.

Dissconnect either the + or - battery terminal and connect an ammeter in series.



Where would i get me one of them cheap..? that was my line of thought. :)

Get yourself a cheapo multimeter with a 10A current setting.

Steady state you will have a small power drain, but it should be nowhere more than about 50mA. You can get a multimeter lead set that actually has a blade fuse attachment that you can remove a fuse, plug in and read the current across it.

Remember power = current X voltage (p=IV), so you can work out how many watts are being used. Assuming a 500CCA battery, you have 50AH. Which means 50A for 1 hour, 5A for 10 hours, 500ma for 100 hours. Since you say its gone in 5-7 days, lets assume a 500ma drain (0.5A) - this is 6W. Are you sure you dont have a light on?

Do you have car audio amplifiers that have been wired so that the remote is wired to B+?

Multimeter - Jaycar, QM-1523, $14.95, Leads with blade fuse fitting, WT-5340 $9.95. Jaycars cheapest multimeter is OK(ish) at $7.95, depends if you are ever going to use it again or not though...

if you find there is no power draining the battery you can take the battery to an auto electrician and get them to do a high rate discharge test.

we have had brand new batteries that have been faulty before so that still may be the problem

Do you realise that normal car batteries are only good for one full cycle. That is, once they are fully discharged, they are never the same again once recharged. The key for a normal battery is to always keep it about 50% charge, then it has no worries being recharged for a few years.

I say the problem may lay in your battery. Car batteries simply are not made to be constantly discharged and recharged over and over again.

amps are wired correctly. No lights on. im charging the battry up now and have disconnected the terminals to see if battery goes flat not connected.

next will be the ammetre test..

Cant charge a normal car battery. Promise you it wont last long at all :)

Why you think all us audio guys go deep cycles

Cant charge a normal car battery. Promise you it wont last long at all :)

Why you think all us audio guys go deep cycles

What do you mean you cant charge a car battery..??

What do you mean you cant charge a car battery..??

Well you physically you can. But you have to remember, the chemistry used in ordinary car batteries means that once they go dead flat, or close to it, they can never be recharged to any sufficient capacity.

There actually is a chemical reason behind it, but unfortunality, all that chemistry was lost on my many years ago.

To put it simply, once a battery is flat and recharged, its total capacity is well bellow 50%.

I would almost be certain, this is the issue, or, part of the issue you are having

Cant charge a normal car battery. Promise you it wont last long at all :)

Why you think all us audio guys go deep cycles

What do you mean you cant charge a normal car battery. :nuts: How do you think it stays charged??? If the car didnt charge the battery you would have to get a new battery every drive. It is better for the battery to charge it up, as it is not good for them to go flat and also stay flat.

Ollie

What do you mean you cant charge a normal car battery. :nuts: How do you think it stays charged??? If the car didnt charge the battery you would have to get a new battery every drive. It is better for the battery to charge it up, as it is not good for them to go flat and also stay flat.

Ollie

all the battery is mainly for, is starting the engine.
after that most (not all) of the cars power needs are met by the alternator.
but in saying that, magnas arnt like cars of old where you could start the car on the battery then remove it from the loop... efi = huge drain.

the alternator does 'top up' the battery, but at the same time, the battery isnt being allowed to run 'flat'
you really only run into problems with a car battery if you let it go flat (leave your lights on / stereo up full crank etc) and then hit it with a car charger.

if your battery is going flat a lot, its a sign of a badly charging alternator or a dud/dead battery.

all the battery is mainly for, is starting the engine.
after that most (not all) of the cars power needs are met by the alternator.
but in saying that, magnas arnt like cars of old where you could start the car on the battery then remove it from the loop... efi = huge drain.

the alternator does 'top up' the battery, but at the same time, the battery isnt being allowed to run 'flat'
you really only run into problems with a car battery if you let it go flat (leave your lights on / stereo up full crank etc) and then hit it with a car charger.

if your battery is going flat a lot, its a sign of a badly charging alternator or a dud/dead battery.

Not true. EFI is not a massive load. Depending on the alternator fitted, whether it needs a magnetising current or its self exciting. (I knew a girl like that once)

Largest load is usually the fuel pump, followed by the ignition coil. Regulation is the key, you remove the battery, and you get some pretty nasty voltage spikes. Ugh. Carby doesn't matter, you are running at most a coil and a fuel pump.

Not true. EFI is not a massive load. Depending on the alternator fitted, whether it needs a magnetising current or its self exciting. (I knew a girl like that once)

Largest load is usually the fuel pump, followed by the ignition coil. Regulation is the key, you remove the battery, and you get some pretty nasty voltage spikes. Ugh. Carby doesn't matter, you are running at most a coil and a fuel pump.

while not directly related, previous car iv had, (87 ZL Fairlane) in both the carby and efi 4.1l, the efi model had the 60Amp alternator, and the carby got the 40Amp alternator.

the carby (with the efi fuel pump fitted coz i felt like it) the car would run on the 40amp alternator minus battery, but the fully efi zl fairlane (60amp alternator) would not.
that does suggest that efi is a big drain to me.
but in saying that... thats now nearly 30year old technology and things have gotten much more efficient these days in that department :)


but back to Original topic, there must be something running or the battery isnt that great anymore...
get a battery test to make sure that its not the battery thats leaking the charge out.

What do you mean you cant charge a normal car battery. :nuts: How do you think it stays charged??? If the car didnt charge the battery you would have to get a new battery every drive. It is better for the battery to charge it up, as it is not good for them to go flat and also stay flat.

Ollie

Shame some people cant read everything I post. Ive clearly said a few times in this thread, that once they go FLAT, theres very little you can do to bring them to NORMAL working range again. Regardless of how many times you hook up a battery charger.

When the battery is being charged buy the alternator, in everyday driving it is not flat, and, hasnt been.

Read closly this time. Once a car battery goes flat, it is never the same again. You can recharge it, but, Ill assure you, it will go flat again very quickly

My apologies but I didnt see that there was another page at the time I posted, and before all you said was 'you cant charge a normal battery'. Which is not true, however I did not see that later on you said if it goes quite flat, not just normal use like in a car or a bit down, it can be charged but the battery will never be the same.

Ollie

All that sounds good. but it should last more than 5 days right..????

All that sounds good. but it should last more than 5 days right..????

From my past experience. No

Friend of mines battery died. Charged it up, new water aswell. Lasted less than a week.

Hard to tell really, but, I have a feeling its your battery, becaue Its been dead flat a few times

From my past experience. No

Friend of mines battery died. Charged it up, new water aswell. Lasted less than a week.

Hard to tell really, but, I have a feeling its your battery, becaue Its been dead flat a few times

Well i charged it up good. its now disconnected.. see how she is in a few days..:)

Well i charged it up good. its now disconnected.. see how she is in a few days..:)

Being quite interested in car audio, I understand how annoying electrical problems are. It takes alot of trial and error in finding the exact cause of a problem.

Goodluck with it :D

Being quite interested in car audio, I understand how annoying electrical problems are. It takes alot of trial and error in finding the exact cause of a problem.

Goodluck with it :D


Cheers. Its been going on for months now..:)

new water aswell.

Pretty sure thats not good for it too. If you mean replacing the water thats in there, its very bad. And you should only ever top up with distilled water. Some people reckon that even adding fresh water is bad, although I think its better to make sure there is water in there, though it would be better to top up a little bit every now and again instead of big amounts when it gets quite low.

You might want to buy a battery tester, I think you can get them quite cheap, and shows the health and condition of the battery.

Ollie

I just put a new battery in there today fully charged.. ill look at it in a few days.. its not the battery.. There is something that is draining the power from the car.. The next few weeks is going to be trial and error..


How can i test from the battery how much is being drained..?? than ammeter thing..? whats the best way to do it..??

Its aint a battery issue.. ive checked all the lights and none of them are staying on.. something else is draining.. Over the next few days the ECU(Haltech) is the subject of the testing..

Also i have something very weird that someone may be able to help me with.. i disconnected the Positive at the battery and got the test light.. put the clamp on the test light on the terminal(positive wires not battery) and touched teh test light on the Postive post on the battery and the Test light lit up for 2 secs and then faded out. very weird.. i thought u needed a positive and a Negitive to complete the circut.. i diconnected battery at positive and just put the test light inline to terminal. If you know what i mean. Im confussed.. am i wrong or was that normal..??

yeah put an ammeter on it with everything off to see if there is any power leaks in the system.

yeah put an ammeter on it with everything off to see if there is any power leaks in the system.


So when u say put it on.. So what goes where..?? im not simple but just to make sure..??

with everything switched off aka doors closed no alarm no that thing, connect it to the postive and negative terminals of the car and measure the amount of amps going through, should be less then 400ma then go through and turn everything on one by one to see if it spikes.

with everything switched off aka doors closed no alarm no that thing, connect it to the postive and negative terminals of the car and measure the amount of amps going through, should be less then 400ma then go through and turn everything on one by one to see if it spikes.


So dont disconnect any terminals..?? just test off the battery..? that dont seem right to measure current being drawn.. now im really confused.. wont i have to disconnect a terminal and hook it up in series..??

So dont disconnect any terminals..?? just test off the battery..? that dont seem right to measure current being drawn.. now im really confused.. wont i have to disconnect a terminal and hook it up in series..??

yes lol don't stick an ammeter across your battery terminals unless you want to break it. like you said, take off one terminal and connect it in series.

does anyone know if the gregory/hanes/mitsu manuals give instructions for load testing the battery, ie take out a fuse and crank it for 30 seconds and the the voltage should be in some acceptable range?

also if this has been going on for months, you've spend probably > $20k on your car, buy a new battery you tight **** :P

also if this has been going on for months, you've spend probably > $20k on your car, buy a new battery you tight **** :P


Ive put three differant Batteries in the car in the last few months. I wish it was the battery. that would be the easy answer..:) my first thoughts where battery too..

Most cheap ammeters are good for only 10amps. So, if you blow it, you know its a pretty big drain :)

Most cheap ammeters are good for only 10amps. So, if you blow it, you know its a pretty big drain :)

lol it's not going to be pulling 10 amps.

lol it's not going to be pulling 10 amps.

Odds are your correct.

However, he would hav massive braging rights if he was

Odds are your correct.

However, he would hav massive braging rights if he was

probably not the bragging rights one would want though
haha

ive got a similar if not the same issue with my 2nd gen... ive since put a new batt. in it and its has made no difference, it maybe lasted a week.

i havent changed the alternator but thats the next step. What happens is i can drive the car for hours, air-con, radio, fan all on or off, it makes no differnce, but maybe 1 in 3 times i stop i cant re-start the car, the batt. is jsut dead, i get a couple cranks and then the clicking of the starter when the battery is dead. so i jump start it, and turn it straight back off and restart it, and it starts fine, actually cranks like the 1st crank after you put a fresh battery in it. Im using a 550CCA lead/acid same as my old one and the problem hasnt changed between the old and new battery.

Just seems odd, that, when the car cranks it cranks hard, and strong, but 10 minutes later, it get "wurr wurr wurr wurr wurrr click click click...." and then everything dies, cd player loses programming, clock resets for all intensive purposes the car is dead flat

Is that anything like you are experiencing THE EGO?

Is that anything like you are experiencing THE EGO?


Nah. i can start and stop mine 300 times a day it fine. when i leave it for 4-5 days she is dead..:(. something is draining when im parked..:( just got to find what now..

since your car is not axactly stock, like with a audio system and all, check any realays that you have installed, have not seized up, i came home the other day to see dads car's spotties on his patrol on, which didnt make sence cuz they were wired up to only be able to come on when the highbeams are on, turned out the relay seized up, and was jammed on, so mabey on your car an amp or something is on all the time. that would drain a battery over a few days.

just adding my input into this mystery

Got me one of these today.. Instructions are in japanese.. no freaken idea on how to use it.. Any help would be nice..:)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3109/2380051268_417ebd2fb5_o.jpg

Plug the black lead into the middle hole (com) and the red one into the left hole 10ADC, set the meter switch to the 10A spot (bottom right there in the green)

Disconnect one of the battery terminals (+ is best but it doesnt matter)

Connect one lead of the meter to the lead and the other to the battery terminal (doesnt matter which way with a digi meter)

It will then read current flowing in the circuit.

With everything off and the doors and boot closed it should read 0

(If it reads 0.2 A or lower change the red lead to the right hand hole (V mA) and switch the dial to the 200mA (thats 0.2A mmkay) spot next to the 10A one. It might read a few mA, thats normal, CD memory etc.)

If it reads more than around 0.1 A (100mA) you have a drain.

Pull out fuses one at a time until the meter drops. When it does .... whatever that fuse supplies (its written on the fuse cover) is where the drain is. (dont forget that when you open the door the int light comes on and will read on the meter, switch the light off)

If that doesnt locate it gimme a yell. :)



PS noice meter ......... feel free to gimme it :shifty: lol

Plug the black lead into the middle hole (com) and the red one into the left hole 10ADC, set the meter switch to the 10A spot (bottom right there in the green)

Disconnect one of the battery terminals (+ is best but it doesnt matter)

Connect one lead of the meter to the lead and the other to the battery terminal (doesnt matter which way with a digi meter)

It will then read current flowing in the circuit.

With everything off and the doors and boot closed it should read 0

(If it reads 0.2 A or lower change the red lead to the right hand hole (V mA) and switch the dial to the 200mA (thats 0.2A mmkay) spot next to the 10A one. It might read a few mA, thats normal, CD memory etc.)

If it reads more than around 0.1 A (100mA) you have a drain.

Pull out fuses one at a time until the meter drops. When it does .... whatever that fuse supplies (its written on the fuse cover) is where the drain is. (dont forget that when you open the door the int light comes on and will read on the meter, switch the light off)

If that doesnt locate it gimme a yell. :)



PS noice meter ......... feel free to gimme it :shifty: lol

Cheers.

Thats was very detailed.. i knew most of it but not the opperation of the meter..
Silly instructions..

I had a old crap volt meter that only worked when it wanted so i needed a new one..:)

I brought it online.. only cost me $20 posted... thought that was ok. thought it would be cheap crap but it acc look ok. only time will tell and for that money im not too fused..:)

Plug the black lead into the middle hole (com) and the red one into the left hole 10ADC, set the meter switch to the 10A spot (bottom right there in the green)

Disconnect one of the battery terminals (+ is best but it doesnt matter)

Connect one lead of the meter to the lead and the other to the battery terminal (doesnt matter which way with a digi meter)

It will then read current flowing in the circuit.

With everything off and the doors and boot closed it should read 0

Okay i just hooked it up like you said and its giving me reading of 0.16..

Im no genious that to me is a decent drain.. ill start pulling out fuses now..:)

Pulled the 20A engine fuse out from under the bonnet. meter dropped to 0.02. Looks like that where the problem is.. Only thing thats a kill switch relay that has been there for over 3 years. ill look at relay now.. its working fine(one and off when its ment too) but maybe a internal fault..




So is 0.02 anything to worry about..??? im assuming not.?

Pulled the 20A engine fuse out from under the bonnet. meter dropped to 0.02. Looks like that where the problem is.. Only thing thats a kill switch relay that has been there for over 3 years. ill look at relay now.. its working fine(one and off when its ment too) but maybe a internal fault..




So is 0.02 anything to worry about..??? im assuming not.?

20mA at 12V is 0.25W which is what your cd player/immobiliser/clock etc will be pulling on standby. Now you've worked out which fuse you will have to use voltmeter in parallel with each resistance in the circuit, the one with the voltage drop is your problem.

20mA at 12V is 0.25W which is what your cd player/immobiliser/clock etc will be pulling on standby. Now you've worked out which fuse you will have to use voltmeter in parallel with each resistance in the circuit, the one with the voltage drop is your problem.


Yeah. ive located the issues(found a few). Mostly relays..

Okay list goes as follows..

Kill Switch relay #1 0.15
Kill switch relay #2 0.14
Tv Tuner 0.06
Stereo Amp 0.03

Total 0.38
Now thats the reason i got a perfectly charged battery and then a flat on in a week..)

Okay so the TV tuner is and the 2 kill switchs are sorted.. There stereo amp one is the only one i got an issue with now..

So with the car parked and everything off im sitting at 0.04 :)

My question is now is 0.04-0.05 going to be an issue.??

Yeah. ive located the issues(found a few). Mostly relays..

Okay list goes as follows..

Kill Switch relay #1 0.15
Kill switch relay #2 0.14
Tv Tuner 0.06
Stereo Amp 0.03

Total 0.38
Now thats the reason i got a perfectly charged battery and then a flat on in a week..)

Okay so the TV tuner is and the 2 kill switchs are sorted.. There stereo amp one is the only one i got an issue with now..

So with the car parked and everything off im sitting at 0.04 :)

My question is now is 0.04-0.05 going to be an issue.??

55 amp hour battery will last for 60 days with that current, will be fine.

55 amp hour battery will last for 60 days with that current, will be fine.


Well with everything connected and car parked thats whats it drawing..:)

Only time will tell now..:) It will sit there for a few more weeks before the engine comes out of it so i can check to see how its doing over that time..



Id like to Thank everyone thats helped me so far. Special thanks James, Brian & Heath. You 3 have been a big help..

Ill give you updates to see how its going..

Well with everything connected and car parked thats whats it drawing..:)

Only time will tell now..:) It will sit there for a few more weeks before the engine comes out of it so i can check to see how its doing over that time.

If you were pulling 400mA before and only 40mA now your battery will last 10x longer obviously, so 60 days instead of 6 :D

You will be glad to know its been a week now and battery is still showing green indicator which means full charge..


Looking good so far.. will be a few more weeks before i start engine rebuild so i can keep an eye on it..:)

Sorry for not gettin back to ya mate, I left for VIC between ya posts. :D
Good ta see the others helped ya :thumbsup:
Hope it all goes well now :D

I might have to do the same thing and find out why my battery goes flat so quick. Mine pretty much dies after having engine off for 3 - 4 minutes. But its only randomly that it happens.

Example, i stop at a petrol station, turn off car, fill up. Want to start up again, and battery dead. I can jump start car though. When i get to work, and at end of day, car starts fine.

Its really bizzar. I thought at first it may be the stereo being too loud while driving, and alternator can't keep up to provide enough charge for battery as the amps suck it all from the alternator (well, whats left over from the car itself not using)

I might buy a MM myself and test the same. Wonder what it is.

I use a Odyssey dry-cell battery. Had a fuse on the main positive line too, and they seem to burn out quite quickly with 100amp fuses when i start the car. Its a bit strange. One would have thought that 100amp fuses are enough to start a freakin engine.

Glad to hear you got your **** sorted Jason...

I might have to do the same thing and find out why my battery goes flat so quick. Mine pretty much dies after having engine off for 3 - 4 minutes. But its only randomly that it happens.

Example, i stop at a petrol station, turn off car, fill up. Want to start up again, and battery dead. I can jump start car though. When i get to work, and at end of day, car starts fine.

Its really bizzar. I thought at first it may be the stereo being too loud while driving, and alternator can't keep up to provide enough charge for battery as the amps suck it all from the alternator (well, whats left over from the car itself not using)

I might buy a MM myself and test the same. Wonder what it is.

I use a Odyssey dry-cell battery. Had a fuse on the main positive line too, and they seem to burn out quite quickly with 100amp fuses when i start the car. Its a bit strange. One would have thought that 100amp fuses are enough to start a freakin engine.

Glad to hear you got your **** sorted Jason...

Yours sounds odd.. No Pattern. Have you cleaned the terminals to make sure they are getting a good conection..?? try a differant battery if possible to eliminate it being the battery.(swap with another car)

You blow a fuse when you start the car..?? WTF..? Have you put a fuse on the cars normal wiring to the battery..?? when does it blow a fuse.?? everytime you start it or only when its flat and wont start..???

P.S. The ammeter test was freaken great. i didnt have a problem but found where the drains are comin from that i didnt know about.. All of them put together made battery flat..

None of the drains is any differant to what the car was 3 years ago.. its just i used to drive it nearly everyday so it wasnt an issue. now i only drive it weekends if that its an issue..:)


Now to find out why my tire keeps going flat..:( Thats another great mystery..

its had a punchure repair. it would go down slowely. i put 40psi in it and within a week its got 17psi. when i flipped the tyres they redid the pubchure repair thinking that what it is, its had two new vavles thinking it might have been that. its also got bead seal on it now thinking thats what it was.. had a good inspection of the rim and there is no cracks or anything to cause it. so the only conclusion now is that there is a tinny hole in the tire somewhere that wont show up when tyre goes in the water tank to check for a leak.. MMM one day it will be all sorted..:)

Yours sounds odd.. No Pattern. Have you cleaned the terminals to make sure they are getting a good conection..?? try a differant battery if possible to eliminate it being the battery.(swap with another car)

You blow a fuse when you start the car..?? WTF..? Have you put a fuse on the cars normal wiring to the battery..?? when does it blow a fuse.?? everytime you start it or only when its flat and wont start..???

P.S. The ammeter test was freaken great. i didnt have a problem but found where the drains are comin from that i didnt know about.. All of them put together made battery flat..

None of the drains is any differant to what the car was 3 years ago.. its just i used to drive it nearly everyday so it wasnt an issue. now i only drive it weekends if that its an issue..:)


Now to find out why my tire keeps going flat..:( Thats another great mystery..

its had a punchure repair. it would go down slowely. i put 40psi in it and within a week its got 17psi. when i flipped the tyres they redid the pubchure repair thinking that what it is, its had two new vavles thinking it might have been that. its also got bead seal on it now thinking thats what it was.. had a good inspection of the rim and there is no cracks or anything to cause it. so the only conclusion now is that there is a tinny hole in the tire somewhere that wont show up when tyre goes in the water tank to check for a leak.. MMM one day it will be all sorted..:)

yeah, odd as hell. The terminals are clean. Yeah, I will have to change battery and see if that is the case. Problem is, i would need to check with another drycell, and I can't use a normal lead acid one, as its in the boot. Might speak to Alan.

The fuse issue is odd too. Fuse would last for a few weeks, then one day, when I start the car, it just burns out before car starts. Its one of those Stinger fuse jobs that sits about 30cm away from the battery (length of the cable). So now i don't even bother with fuse anymore and just pickyback it.

I use a Odyssey dry-cell battery. Had a fuse on the main positive line too, and they seem to burn out quite quickly with 100amp fuses when i start the car. Its a bit strange. One would have thought that 100amp fuses are enough to start a freakin engine.


Heck no! The starter motor is rated at 1.2KW, at 12V thats 100A.

Heck no! The starter motor is rated at 1.2KW, at 12V thats 100A.
****.. serious? Ok, that would explain the burned out fuses. I might have to get a stronger fuse or use 2 in parallel. What should I use? Im quite sure Im running 2 x 2GA cable to the engine bay from the boot. Not sure what the cables are rated at in terms of how much current they can handle. Any ideas?