Recently I've noticed a shudder in my auto 3.5 TH wagon.
At first I thought it was slight corrugations in the road after the recent rains but it has got worse.

It's almost like it is two problems that are linked.

Over bumps it feels like something heavy is shaking near my feet.

Sometimes while cruising or maitaining my speed up a slight hill if I hit a bump the initial shaking becomes a shudder that builds in intensity and shakes the whole car until I either back off or accellerate (kick down).

I've searched for previous references to shudder/shaking problems and rhs engine mount was a cause and another was inner cv joints, another traded his magna for a commodore.

I have had the car checked and had some things fixed.

The tyres have been rebalanced and I replaced the worn rear shocks but the problem was still there.

Then the mechanic found the rhs engine mount was broken and this was replaced.
He was as surprised as I was when it made no difference.
The other 3 mounts have been inspected and seem ok as do the front suspension bushes and shocks.

My mechanic doesn't think it's cvs because there is no noise on turns and under hard accelleration.

I don't want to start blowing money replacing stuff that's ok.

What else should I look at?

not sure but get the tranny looked at as mine does the same thing and the tranny stuffed

not sure but get the tranny looked at as mine does the same thing and the tranny stuffed
I have asked my mechanic if he thinks it could be anything to do with the tranny and he doesn't but reckons it's due for a service anyway so it's booked in for one this week.

What else should I get him to look at?

Having never owned an auto i feel like in sticking my nose where it doesnt belong but i just gotta add my 2c

ive been passenger in alot of old autos and they all seem to do the same thing, when stopped at lights and such when in gear with the foot break on there is a shudder that goes through the car but stops when you drive off. Is this the same shudder or something different?

The only thort i have is could it be the 'clutch' system that autos use ie not engaging fully?

Having never owned an auto i feel like in sticking my nose where it doesnt belong but i just gotta add my 2c

ive been passenger in alot of old autos and they all seem to do the same thing, when stopped at lights and such when in gear with the foot break on there is a shudder that goes through the car but stops when you drive off. Is this the same shudder or something different?

The only thort i have is could it be the 'clutch' system that autos use ie not engaging fully?

I don't think it's the auto because it only starts shuddering at cruising speed under light throttle.
It doesn't do it when you drive off or accellerate hard.

diveres side drive shaft

it will be the inner CV

Sounds like wheel tramp to me. Needs new front struts.

Regards, Andrew.

Yo get the transmission serviced at mitsubishi and it will go away I had EXACTLY the same issue which I grappled with for months.

Just so that you know I had the same issue it always happened in the sweet 45-55 speed zone, under slight acceleration, and like you I had to back off or floor it so it downshifted away, didnt have the guts to keep the shudder going to diagnose it further coz it would get bad really quick.

As for what it may have been I'm guessing something in the transmission and old oil was causing it. Like yourself I spent countless hours researching and checking other things but in the end the service fixed it completely.

Yo get the transmission serviced at mitsubishi and it will go away I had EXACTLY the same issue which I grappled with for months.

Just so that you know I had the same issue it always happened in the sweet 45-55 speed zone, under slight acceleration, and like you I had to back off or floor it so it downshifted away, didnt have the guts to keep the shudder going to diagnose it further coz it would get bad really quick.

As for what it may have been I'm guessing something in the transmission and old oil was causing it. Like yourself I spent countless hours researching and checking other things but in the end the service fixed it completely.

Interesting.
I'm getting the tranny serviced anyway so I guess we'll know soon enough.

I had the transmission serviced yesterday and although the car is smoother overall the shudder is still there.
The old oil was very dark.

My log book said the full 110,000 km service had been done but the mechanic said the transmission had never been serviced previously so it was 40,000 km overdue.

They didn't have time to investigate the shudder further so it's booked in again for tomorrow.

I had the transmission serviced yesterday and although the car is smoother overall the shudder is still there.
The old oil was very dark.

My log book said the full 110,000 km service had been done but the mechanic said the transmission had never been serviced previously so it was 40,000 km overdue.

They didn't have time to investigate the shudder further so it's booked in again for tomorrow.

hmmmm, thats a wierd 1, i would of said tranny 1st! then suspension, i am gonna go with cv shaft, inner! on the rhs as well! good luck with it

My mechanic doesn't think it's cvs because there is no noise on turns and under hard accelleration.

if its the inner cv, it wont make noise! it doesnt move! when i say that i mean it doesnt turn its fixed! so it wouldnt click on turns or acceleration! how many ks are on the car??

Hmm Interesting.

Ah well atleast it wasn't a total waste, as you said it was way overdue. Your case may be complicated by something else as other have illuded to. CV shafts+joints are the next thing I would look at in the list of things to fix. I think you can score shafts on ebay for around $200 for the pair if i'm not mistaken. If you have a good mechanic they can be changed over for around $150.

The car has about 150,000 kms.

There seems to be more than one contributing factor.

Although the engine mounts all appear intact now I've replaced the broken rhs mount the front and rear mounts are very flexible allowing the motor to rock forwards and backwards quite a bit under load.

I'm not sure if they have gone soft from age or they are meant to be so soft for NHV reasons.

I think this could be the movement felt when I hit bumps in the road.

All it needs is to be driving at a constant light load and a bump will start the shudder off and it builds until the load changes.

I can imagine how it could be driveshafts but if it's not the mechanic is going to say I told you so and hand me a bill for $450.

Get your front struts checked it's free at Pedders.........the car is the right age for cactus struts and shocks, and you have described symptoms of FWD wheel tramp to me.

Regards, Andrew.

No Pedders locally but the shocks are the originals so even though they pass the push down bounce test they must still be pretty worn.

I might replace them next week.

We went to fit new struts today but the bearings in the top mounts seem to have a fair bit of play.
The rubbers are ok and all the play seems to come from the bearing.
Not sure how much is ok but the edge of the top mount has 2-3 mm wobble.

I had the same thing last year.

My mechanic replaced the drive shafts because he warned me he had done just the cv joints on another magna previously and it was back in 6 months later to replace the shafts.

Unfortunately you might be up for the whole hog to save some pennies in the long run.

I had the new kyb struts fitted with new top mounts today.
The bumpstops were gone too so a pair of strutmates went in.
It had to be booked for a wheel alignment tomorrow because it's part of the job.

It feels firmer and smoother but I can't be 100% sure yet that it has totally fixed the shudder.

I'm not sure what this is costing me yet but I know the retail on the parts alone is over $600 so I'm not looking forward to the bill.

Hi Whitewagon

Interested in the outcome and any developments. Mine's manual but always interested in what wears out as the mileage progresses.

kind regards
Blake

if after all this your car is still shuddering it will be your driveshafts 100%

i had this when i had my magana and i went over the car looking at the suspension all the way to the gearbox got my mechanic to hoist my car up and look at the drive shafts and he told me it was the inner CV rooted. mine went from shuddering to a loud clunk cause it took me so long to figure out what it was. stop wasting you money on other things and just take it to your mechanic and get him to look at the CV joints. or if you have car ramps do it yourself. shouldnt cost much for you mechanic to have a 2 min look at the CV's

Have your engine mounts checked, my car had a bastard of a shudder but replacing a broken mount was all it needed.

I've driven the car for a few days since fitting the new struts and having a wheel alignment and I haven't had the shudder but some slight rattles or vibrations are still present.

It soaks up bumps and has much less body roll.

I took the car over a winding country road yesterday and I've got to say it drives and handles so much better with the new shocks.

It feels like a totally different car so it was money well spent.

It's hard to believe the old shocks were so bad given that they passed the bounce test.

The engine mounts were checked before I started this thread and the rhs mount replaced.

The mechanic has checked the cvs and rechecked them at my request and reckons that although they aren't new they wouldn't be the cause.

My guess is the shudder was due to combined wear and tear but became more apparent as the struts deteriorated.

I won't be spending any more money on this unless the shudder returns.

Whitewagon

That sounds promising. Thinking of your post today has got me thinking about my shocks too.
Hope you have got it nailed and your hip pocket recovers quick!

best regards
Blake

Would you be comfortable sharing what it has cost you to date?

Shocks are money well spent on any high mileage FWD car (or any car really). Replacing the strut top mounts is also a great thing to do, as teh rubber in them deteriorats and goes soft over time, jsut as engine mounts do.
Your problem was axle tramp, caused by teh shock losing it's damping ability over small amounts of movement, due to either internal wear, thinning of the damping oil, wear in teh top bushing or all three.
It only takes a few millimetres of free movement to set up a resonance, and combined with a driveshaft under torque, it sets off a loading and unloading of teh shaft, and if it's teh right frequency, it'll continue to resonate and get worse.
The clues were that it would slowly get worse as you accelerated and would go away when load was reduced. If it were a slipping clutch pack in teh auto box, it would have not gotten slowly worse as you accelerated, it would have been all in immediately. The other clue was teh bumping at your feet, this is where the lower control arm attaches to the subframe, and the bumping was the shock failing to control spring resonance.
Any independent rear suspension with halfshafts will have the same problems with worn shocks, they are fundamentally the same design, except with no swivelling hubs.

I'm glad they worked out well for you.

Regards, Andrew.

Yeah hopefully my hip pocket can recover over the next few weeks but the cost for me is not so bad because I get a generous discount because the workshop I use is a family business so basically parts at cost and 50% labour plus I can use the workshop to do what I can for myself.

Cost is about 20%-40% saving on retail

It has cost me $850 since I started chasing this problem but retail would have been about $1500 fitted.

Rear kyb shocks $120 pr (fitted myself)

Rhs engine mount $105 (fitted myself)

Trans. service $109

2 genuine strut tops $95 ea
Front kyb struts $210 pr
Strutmates/bumpstop $72 pr (all fitted myself)

Wheel alignment $44

I can still feel a vibration sometimes that seems like it wants to shudder but the new struts keep it under control.

It's probably a combination of soft rear engine mount and minimal wear in the cv shafts but if I wanted a new car I should have bought one srtaight up.

Wondering if the problem was resolved with the new mounts and shocks.

I have TF with an occasional shudder around 58kph under light throttle and usually uphill. The car has less than 50000klms so would be surprised if the auto transmission's broken. Shudder stops when I back off the throttle.

I don't want to chase my tail trying to fix this. So far I've reset the computer and checked both tyres have equal wear and pressure. Each brought a slight improvement but the shudder still comes once everything is warmed up. Tomorrow I'll change the trans oil but not sure if I'll use the Mitsubishi oil or Nulon sythetic which they say is suitable for Mitsu. auto-boxes.

Any advice from other who have fixed this problem would be appreciated.

I think that under the conditions you describe ie 60kph, light throttle up a slight grade, my car still wants to shudder but the new shocks are stopping it build up a vibration.
As I said before I think the shudder is not caused by a single problem but by a combination of slightly worn components.
I'm not spending any more money unless it comes back.

One thing I learned from this is not to wait until my shocks won't pass rego.
They need replacing every 50,000kms.

My cv shafts never made a sound and felt fine to inspect, but the car eventually became nearly undrivable, $143 a side later including install and my shudder is gone.

My cv shafts never made a sound and felt fine to inspect, but the car eventually became nearly undrivable, $143 a side later including install and my shudder is gone.

Who fitted them?
The quote I got was more than double that for new inner and outer cvs.

i had the same thing.
obivously a common magna fault. cvs changed...shudder gone.

I'm glad this topic came up - the Rada has had a shudder/shimmy through the front wheels and body from 90Kph +. I have had new tyres, alignments, got the Mitsu dealership to road test and check all the running gear and have taken it to pedders for their suspension check. Nothing has been found 'wrong' with the car yet it still starts to shake when I get on the freeway.

The other day I jacked the front of the car up to see if I could see anything and I found that there was some play in the front wheel. So I had one wheel up and the other on the ground, in park, I could rotate the wheel back and forward about 8cm. Is this normal 'play' or should the wheel be held tight - is this related to the CV joints or something to do with the drive shafts/transmission?

The movement is quite normal on the part detent in the box, nothing wrong there at all

The Magna Inner joints are very well known for wear, they are actually a DOJ joing not a CV joing. A CV joint only can move through one axis, ie angle of shaft to the joint. A dog can move through 2 axis, angle of shaft to joint as well as distance from shaft to joint (ie in and out).

This is achevied by having a bearing set up inside that will effectivly slide in and out within some chanels. (is hard to explain if you have not seen them) and the chanel can wear and restrict the joint's movement. (damn this is hard to explain without actually showing the issue :) )

I would start here and go from there if you have the same issue

Thanks Mal, the guy at Pedders has a TH and he explained a similar situation to your explaination - makes sense.

Well it's been a couple of weeks now and shudder is gone.

Looks like it was the transmission oil in my case. Ended up buying 5 litres of the proper Mitsubishi oil as well as another oil filter. I'll do another oil dump and change in a week or two since there is about 3.5 litres of the old oil still in the system.

There's a good guide on Autospeed

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_3019/article.html

that describes how to change the oil of a Verada transmission. Not a hard job and the advice about using a cardboard deflecter is a must if you want to stay clean.

I found that taking the battery lead off and then putting it back on to get the car to relearn its shifting pattern immediately cured the shudder.