Dunno if your joking but pretty much all factory HID's are 4300K.

Where did you get them from, obviously a shop for that price??? They wayyyy cheaper on ebay, but I guess they are probably better quality?

If they were H4's I might be interested, but they wont fit my car :doubt:

Ollie

OK - I'll bite. You are correct on the 4300K, this is a factory colour of Philips 85122's that are used on BMW's Audi's etc. Or the osram equivalent D2S. At 8000K you are looking at about the same light output as halogens anyway (possibly less) - The bluer nature of the light irritates the eyes and is very fatiguing on long trips.

BTW There is NO SUCH THING as bosch HID's - bosch do make Ballasts, but they don't make bulbs and they certainly don't make HID kits. There is a seller in china who is blatantly breaking copyright rules. (Just cause the watch says Rolex on the front and back that I bought in the back streets of Kuta for $10 doesn't make it a rolex). It LOOKS like one, but take it apart and hmmm...:doubt:

Since it could bias the outcome of the sale, I will make no comments on the quality or longevity of the brand. Buyers can do some research themselves.

H7 Kits do fit in parabolics OK, but you would buy this kit for looks alone, not performance. The beam pattern is just as gawdawful with H7 hids as it is with H7 halogen. Decent glare control, but about the same light output as some decent H7 halogens.

You could get some replacement bulbs from ebay, but the shipping is a dreadful price. Have a search for mars yellowpack for realistic prices. I've used their bulbs + ballasts before for driving lights, work quite well. They are just generic gen 3 knockoffs, but they are very good for thier price.

Kelvin ratings are just used by aftermarket bulb manufacturers to sell bulbs.

Your 10,000K just looks like a 6,000K ultinon. True 10,000K looks like purple. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPUu6YxMjD0&feature=related

Have a look at the attached - it shows the beam pattern as well, in all its horrible glory.:doubt:

And here's why you don't fit them...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVuSSdZNsZw&feature=related

All aftermarket bulbs/kits are a lottery, you might get lucky, but the overwhelming majority of kits are just as bad as each other.:nuts:

heath my good man

1) you can't use photos to see a true colour...

2) The pattern you have shown looks identical on the top and on the bottom. maybe you should have your eyes checked, just maybe, I am no doctor.

3) This kit is wayyy better quality than the eBay ones...

4) Any person who buys a 4200K after-market HID Kit, deserves to be shot twice in the head because:
a) on a car with halogen reflectors, it will look just as bad as the halogens that induced you to buy the kit, hence you are wasting your money
b) Only the retards at Holden use that colour for their (OEM) VZ range, all of the euro manufacturers use 5200K lights or very close to that

5) I bet most of you didnt even know that some holden VZs come stock with HIDs because they look like halogens even though they have the correct HID reflectors.

6) Imagine this:
a) a random car has been involved in a front end collision, both halogen headlights smashed, and so have to be replaced.. the high calibre individuals at the panel beating shop being as smart as they are, "forget" to align the stock headlights after installation. the unsuspecting customer drives out of the shop and for years to come his/hers left headlight is pointing to high heaven and the right one looks like it is on high beam all the time. How many of those cases do you see on the road every day? and here you are having a whinge about glare!!!
b) a retarded retiree drives with high beams on without even knowing it. and here you are having a whinge about glare!!!
c) a hill-billy decides to raise his halogen headlights so he can see better on country roads. and here you are having a whinge about glare!!!
d) here's an exercise for you, can you come up with another 15 scenarios where halogen headlights are producing excess glare.

7) I bought the Bosch kit from the UK, and you are correct, the globes are not Bosch, and indeed Bosch do not make a kit, but the ballasts are Bosch, and thats all I care about...

8) THIS KIT IS NOT FOR LOOKS ALONE, the light output is massively increased from the sh*thouse stock halogens, the headlights actually perform as a headlight should, never going back to halogen with the parabolic reflectors. I can demonstrate to potential buyers that the pattern is almost the same, but wayyy brighter

9) shipping on ebay is $25AUD for the globes, so for under $50 you can buy any colour that you want and it will get to your door within 4 days with postage insurance, so get off the crack mate...

You are arguing with the wrong person about automotive lighting! :D You are talking to someone who designs and builds their own headlamps :)


heath my good man

1) you can't use photos to see a true colour...


Correct, its all to do with white balance on digital cameras, and colour calibration with the monitor.



2) The pattern you have shown looks identical on the top and on the bottom. maybe you should have your eyes checked, just maybe, I am no doctor.


Correct, I was 'illuminating' the fact that the beam pattern is almost identical between a H7 bulb and H7 HID kit. They are equally as bad.



3) This kit is wayyy better quality than the eBay ones...


Incorrect, unless you use genuine (OEM) ballasts you will never have the same reliability or EMI protection. I design these things as a bit of a hobby, and the electronic design used on some of the aftermarket ones just makes you shake your head. I buy and tear down these things on occasion, and the internals of ALL of the Gen 3 knockoffs use the same board, design and components, just different labels.

I would be willing to bet that the person who sold you the kit tried to tell you different, but if you like I have high resolution shots of the inside of these ballasts compared to genuine Hella Gen 3's.




4) Any person who buys a 4200K after-market HID Kit, deserves to be shot twice in the head because:
a) on a car with halogen reflectors, it will look just as bad as the halogens that induced you to buy the kit, hence you are wasting your money


No, your average halogen bulb comes in around 3000-3500K tops. Your light output goes from a maximum (absolute maximum - in a very premium H9 bulb) of 1800 lumens. A D2S 4300K Philips bulb is rated at 3200 lumens - close to TWICE the light output. Colour notwithstanding, an increase in forward illumination of that degree is very worthwhile.



b) Only the retards at Holden use that colour for their (OEM) VZ range, all of the euro manufacturers use 5200K lights or very close to that


Incorrect on both counts.

1) The VZ only has HID as an option for the HSV versions, all of the others are simply projection headlamps, and these are fitted with Philips 85122+. A 4300K bulb. I know this because I have someone in the family who is a panel beater and grabs the broken headlamps for me.

2) The only two bulbs that meet ADR and ECE requirments are the Philips 85122, Philips 85122+, and Osram - All 4300K colour temperature. There is a Philips 6000K 85126, which is labelled quite plainly "Not For Use In Europe/USA" (also known as Ultinon, also illegal for use in Australian headlamps - as our ADR's are letter for letter ECE's). 5000K bulbs are known as CM (colour match) and are legal but not factory fitted - these are used for smash repair replacements, as the bulbs are over $200 each - they match a colour-shifted 85122 (so you don't have L&R two different colour temperatures).



5) I bet most of you didnt even know that some holden VZs come stock with HIDs because they look like halogens even though they have the correct HID reflectors.


NO NO NO. They are projector headlamps and are not suitable for D2S bulbs (ie. xenon) They also lack autolevelling and headlamp washers, both which are a requirement of our ADR's and come fitted on the HSV ONLY. The HSV also is a BIXENON projector, not a single xenon (both high and lowbeam).



6) Imagine this:
a) a random car has been involved in a front end collision, both halogen headlights smashed, and so have to be replaced.. the high calibre individuals at the panel beating shop being as smart as they are, "forget" to align the stock headlights after installation. the unsuspecting customer drives out of the shop and for years to come his/hers left headlight is pointing to high heaven and the right one looks like it is on high beam all the time. How many of those cases do you see on the road every day? and here you are having a whinge about glare!!!
b) a retarded retiree drives with high beams on without even knowing it. and here you are having a whinge about glare!!!
c) a hill-billy decides to raise his halogen headlights so he can see better on country roads. and here you are having a whinge about glare!!!
d) here's an exercise for you, can you come up with another 15 scenarios where halogen headlights are producing excess glare.


Ah - yes, you cannot legislate against stupidity.



7) I bought the Bosch kit from the UK, and you are correct, the globes are not Bosch, and indeed Bosch do not make a kit, but the ballasts are Bosch, and thats all I care about...


Which generation bosch ballasts - internal or external ignitor?



8) THIS KIT IS NOT FOR LOOKS ALONE, the light output is massively increased from the sh*thouse stock halogens, the headlights actually perform as a headlight should, never going back to halogen with the parabolic reflectors. I can demonstrate to potential buyers that the pattern is almost the same, but wayyy brighter


I already did, thats the beam pattern shot. The brightness is only around about 25% brighter at the hotspot as measured by a luxmeter. This was with a 6K aftermarket H7 kit, mounted correctly in a one-piece parabolic headlamp. This is what I do for a hobby!

The parabolic headlamps are very very poor. All you are doing is making a bad pattern brighter. This is the point I am trying to make. No matter how bright the pattern is, light distribution to the sides is very poor, and forground illumination is too bright (comprimising night vision and long distance). In fact the parabolics are so bad I gut the entire lowbeam and replace it with an Audi TT (bosch) lowbeam projector. I have since replaced this with a stanley TSX/Honda accord euro lowbeam projector.

The standard (exec) headlamps are far superior in everything except cosmetics. When I purchased my AWD (since I wasn't going to do a conversion straight away) I took out the godawful parabolics and fitted exec headlamps with Hella Rally 100/90 H4s and a relay harness.

Have a look at the beam pattern from the H7, versus the beam pattern of the TT projector - notice anything different in terms of brightness an uniformity?



9) shipping on ebay is $25AUD for the globes, so for under $50 you can buy any colour that you want and it will get to your door within 4 days with postage insurance, so get off the crack mate...

Shipping is a stupid price for the weight. Why buy from china when there are local importers?

Bosch ballasts to compare yours to. Gen 1 and Gen 2 ballasts. These are the only ones they make btw.

Seriously though - The hid kits on a H7 are OK - you do end up with brighter light, but the pattern is just as bad as with halogens.

If you are interested in getting the right information (not a sales pitch - I don't sell these things) go to www.hidplanet.com/forums and read up on colour temperatues etc. PLEASE.

Get some accurate information and do some 'lurning at the same time.

Actually - try also reading my headlamp FAQ where I cover all of this sort of stuff.

There really IS a reason why the NHTSA has banned HID kits from sale in the USA.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/Hid/conversions/conversions.html

Now that we are starting to pull rank, I completed my Bachelor of Engineering (Electrical & Electronic) with first class honours (at UWA) and got the third highest mark for my thesis in the faculty...

EMI??? Who gives a sh*t about EMI? I have a DVD player in my car, and it does not register any interference on the screen, so as far as I am concerned EMI is handled pretty well...

Reliability? if it made a month, it will make a decade, electronics don't just die ... so i am confident that this unit will make it until your car dies... it has hefty heatsinks so as far as the engineering of the unit is concerned i am happy with it...

I would love to see the inside pix of the ballasts just FMI, my e-mail is stantcho@hotmail.com
keep it under 10Mb or hotmail will reject it..

You do seem to kno your stuff about globes, so i will not argue ..

The bosch ballasts are Gen. 7 with internal ignitors

all i am trying to say is that, yes, the parabolix suck, but with HIDs they are wayyy better than with halogens, firstly because of the glare which illuminates around the road and secondly because they are brighter.

the audi and euro projectors are sweet, why dont you enlighten us as to how much they cost...

Who are the local importers???

Reliability? if it made a month, it will make a decade, electronics don't just die ... so i am confident that this unit will make it until your car dies... it has hefty heatsinks so as far as the engineering of the unit is concerned i am happy with it...




hahahahahahahaha thats the funniest thing i have ever heard, computer hardware fails all the time after 1 month of use

hahahahahahahaha thats the funniest thing i have ever heard, computer hardware fails all the time after 1 month of use

Couldnt agree more, just because it lasted a month doesnt mean its reliable or stable components die off and replacements are needed :)

http://upit.section31.us/uploads/jackson4.gif

seXi you're digging yourself into a hole.

Reliability? if it made a month, it will make a decade, electronics don't just die ... so i am confident that this unit will make it until your car dies... it has hefty heatsinks so as far as the engineering of the unit is concerned i am happy with it...

how often do you hear about amplifiers and cd players dying?:doubt:

Hi all, I just purchased a pair of 90/100 super whites (no hid here) for my car and paid $16 postage for delivery to Wollongong from VICTORIA! My Chinese stuff usually is less than $10. By the way, the final price on my H4s was $0.06. Yep 6 cents. Will let you know if they actually produce light. According to the seller, they are the bees knees. Cheers:cool:

Last pair of bulbs I got from China cost me $14 all up. Less than the $16.06 the victorian ones cost.

ppl, i am talking about HID hardware. it is sooo simple inside, they only have a DC-AC converter and a step-up transformer (and an ignitor), if that stuff lasts a month of non-stop use, it is 99% likely to last a decade.

I've had pc hardware that failed, but that is wayyy more complicated than an HID ballast. that is what i meant...

Interestingly enough, hid ballasts are actaully very complicated - your typical gas discharge bulb (say a ceramic metal halide) has a maximum ignition pulse of 5,000v - and a warmup time of around about 2-3 minutes, depending on size and style. But don't even think of trying to get it to light again when its still hot.

Compare this to an OEM Ballast designed for automotive applications:
You need the bulb to be up and ready (usable light) within 5-10 seconds - not 3 minutes. You need to be able to turn the headlights off, and turn them back on again - immediately. (This is called a hot restrike, and it requires an ignition pulse of up to 25,000v to break down the very high gas pressure).
You need to regulate the power of the bulb to within +/-2% of 35W once warmed up.
You need to know that the bulb has ruptured, and only to try to restrike it quickly 3 times before shutting the ballast down (to protect accident victims/resuce workers from electrocution/fire).
You need to know that the battery voltage is low, and to turn off the ballast to avoid draining the battery any furthur, or drawing too much current and burning out the ballast.

Basically, you need some pretty serious smarts in the ballast to do all of this well - most aftermarket ballasts don't do any of this well - 20 second warmup, and piss poor hot restrike.

I've made my own ballasts, and getting the first two working well was a challenge in itself. Ignitor design is also a black art almost - easy to get a cold bulb started and warmed up quickly (its a matter of the wattage at startup - 75W into a 35W bulb is a good figure) but on restrike, used to flash over the (cheap chinese imported) ignitors - ended up going Bosch gen 2 ignitors - reliable, if a little big.

Most of the cheap chinese ballasts kill thier ignitors, or they suffer water damage (most have fixed this now) or they use cheap electros that dry up and die, or insufficient suppression in an electrically very noisy environment, or components with a poor tempco so component values drift so far stuff stops working - as an EE you would understand that there is a hundred different things that stops stuff from doing what its supposed to.

I'm also interested in the Bosch ballasts you describe in the kit you bought - Bosch AFAIK have never made a ballast without an external ignitor. Their most recent type is the gen 2's that are used in the Audi TT's, BMW E46 etc. They don't make parts specifically for the
aftermarket either (not enough volume to be bothered).

Please don't tell me you bought these: http://www.boschhidkit.com/
or http://www.tradekey.com/ks-bosch-hid-kit/

They are a Hella LVQ212 Gen 3 knockoff ballast - its a bosch sticker, I can find you about 15 other ballasts that have the same case and internals - including the mars yellowpacks I posted earlier. Sorry :cry: you've been had.

hahahahahahahaha thats the funniest thing i have ever heard, computer hardware fails all the time after 1 month of use

+1 with marine electronics(sounders and GPS ect) as well

I think the lesson we've learn't here is (above the great lighting info...I do have an eng degree with honours and still learn't something as well ;) ) is to know who to pick fights with ;)

Coming into winter, with the greater hours of darkness, as well as moving house which now means I travel a distance along a road which has zero lighting, the KH verada headlights are now really starting to become a problem...almost unsafe. Like Heath said, better bulbs will give better light within the pattern, but the poor beam pattern is still a poor beam pattern.

So Heath, the question is, what can I do to to better the pattern? Projectors would be great, but I don't think I want to part with $1k (at a guess). I could put the standard Magna headlights in as well, but that would be sacrilege.

Not fighting, discussing with facts - don't argue with engineers :)

What to do with the parabolics is always going to be a hairy issue - the main problem is the optics themselves - brighter light is a benefit, as much as I hate to suggest this the only way you can increase the distance vision is to fit better bulbs (osram hyper H7 bulbs are probably the absolute best you can go without going overwatt Philips Rally 80W H7's)
Hypers are H9 burners on a H7 base, 2100 Lumens vs 1800.

A kit will work but you are shooting yourself in the foot - beam spread isn't wide enough, so you end up blinding yourself with the foreground illumination - this can be reduced a tad if you aim up slightly, but too far and you will be pissing other drivers off.

I know everyone likes the look of the parabolics, but unfortunatly, if you do a lot of country driving, function over fashion has to prevail sometimes. You will not get better lighting than a set of exec headlamps with Hella Rally 100/90 H4's and Hella Rally 100W H1's teamed up with a relay harness - there are 130/100's around, but you will start killing reflectors with these.

Not fighting, discussing with facts - don't argue with engineers :)

What to do with the parabolics is always going to be a hairy issue - the main problem is the optics themselves - brighter light is a benefit, as much as I hate to suggest this the only way you can increase the distance vision is to fit better bulbs (osram hyper H7 bulbs are probably the absolute best you can go without going overwatt Philips Rally 80W H7's)
Hypers are H9 burners on a H7 base, 2100 Lumens vs 1800.

A kit will work but you are shooting yourself in the foot - beam spread isn't wide enough, so you end up blinding yourself with the foreground illumination - this can be reduced a tad if you aim up slightly, but too far and you will be pissing other drivers off.

I know everyone likes the look of the parabolics, but unfortunatly, if you do a lot of country driving, function over fashion has to prevail sometimes. You will not get better lighting than a set of exec headlamps with Hella Rally 100/90 H4's and Hella Rally 100W H1's teamed up with a relay harness - there are 130/100's around, but you will start killing reflectors with these.

Does this theory also apply for the 2nd gens?
I.e. Exec headlights are better then the parras?

hahahahahahahaha thats the funniest thing i have ever heard, computer hardware fails all the time after 1 month of use

Not your stuff of course Al :D



Does this theory also apply for the 2nd gens?
I.e. Exec headlights are better then the parras?


Pretty much, light wise the execs were better on the Pookmobile.
I put the paras on then supplemented em with 2 hella pencil beam spotties hidden behind the grill. :)

']Does this theory also apply for the 2nd gens?
I.e. Exec headlights are better then the parras?

I think from memory the 2nd gen parra's were properly designed and are actually better than the standard lights. Skimped on R&D for the 3rd gen.


Ollie

Sorry Fella,

Im going to have to agree with everything Heath has said,you just cant argue with real world testing and practice,hell,just because i watch and read alot of porn doesnt mean i am the second Ron Jeremy lol,all theory and no practice doesnt cut it in my eyes

And the cheap kits are just that,cheap!,we sold a what was supposed to be "decent" Brightstar and MCculloch branded kits at my work which sold for about $500 trade,and we had so may returns for faulty globes and ballasts it wasnt funny,so managemant decided to no longer sell that product,we now sell genuine Philips kits and i have yet to have one return and the quailty just looks so much better,and i only recommend the 4200K kits to everyone because this has been tried and tested as the best Kelvin for lumen output and eye comfort etc

Steve