There is a thread on another forum about hydrogen cars and the discussion turned into ways of making a car more efficient. I added my idea to the discussion but no one seems to be interested in it so ill see what you guys think.

My idea, is to remove the pulley from an alternator ( or a generator, what ever is more efficient ) and replace it with a turbine blade. Now, instead of putting your intercooler piping onto the TB of the car, make it go to the alternator with the blade instead. The turbo spoling up, would also cause the alternator to start spinning.

I thought of other ways of connecting the alternator to the turbo, but it would be to dangerous to the turbo shaft and plus the RPM of the alternator would be way way to fast and would most likely destroy it.

This way, the RPM of the alternator can be controlled with a waste gate at the alt side and it wont spin to destruction and the turbo is also safe.

Now, the hydrogen. the alternator creates electricity ( orly? ) wich can be used to create hydrogen. The hydrogen could be used as its being created ( dont know if it would be creating enough to make a difference ) OR, there could be a seperate tank that collects it as you drive along. Once full, you could get the engine to run on the tank of hydrogen.

Thoughts ?

sorry wont work, and with your alternator could be set up to generate hydrogen gas, it could not only generate hydrogen quickly enough to even run the car at idol, and there is no room in the engine bay to have a electrolysis tank that would have any significant amount of water in it to make it feisable in the first place. you are better off haveing a larger scale electrolysis tank in your garage at home, that is running constatly all week generating hydrogen, toppping up your cars tank every week. and running your car on a duel fuel set up like LPG, but with Hydrogen in the tank however. this is the main propblem that Engineers are having which is storing hygrogen safely, as it has to be cooled to a liquid state and then stored, current hydrogen cars only have, short range about 100kms so yeah, good idea but basis but not currently practicle.

sorry wont work, and with your alternator could be set up to generate hydrogen gas, it could not only generate hydrogen quickly enough to even run the car at idol, and there is no room in the engine bay to have a electrolysis tank that would have any significant amount of water in it to make it feisable in the first place. you are better off haveing a larger scale electrolysis tank in your garage at home, that is running constatly all week generating hydrogen, toppping up your cars tank every week. and running your car on a duel fuel set up like LPG, but with Hydrogen in the tank however. this is the main propblem that Engineers are having which is storing hygrogen safely, as it has to be cooled to a liquid state and then stored, current hydrogen cars only have, short range about 100kms so yeah, good idea but basis but not currently practicle.

with your alternator turbine idea it would not work, as the engery required to spool the alternator would be reducing the efficenc of the turbo, and thus reducing power, (there is no such thing as free energy), much more efficent to have it on a belt drive set up as there is less loss of power, and your battery would go flat pretty quick as your alternator would only be generating power when the engine is at high RPM, any other time and it would be dead and your car would drain your battery flat! sorry you cut your ideas down

there was a story on a current affair or something the other week, a guy had created a dual fuel car and was successfully running his car on petrol/hydrogen. He was saving $20 a week on petrol and was using about 1 litre of water every couple of weeks from memory.

with your alternator turbine idea it would not work, as the engery required to spool the alternator would be reducing the efficenc of the turbo, and thus reducing power, (there is no such thing as free energy), much more efficent to have it on a belt drive set up as there is less loss of power, and your battery would go flat pretty quick as your alternator would only be generating power when the engine is at high RPM, any other time and it would be dead and your car would drain your battery flat! sorry you cut your ideas down

Well the reason for the alternator turbo idea was so it uses the engines exhaust since that is being wasted anyways. Ive read that 16% of the engines power goes through the exhaust so instead of wasting it, why not use it ?

Alternators are a lot more efficient than generators, it's much more efficiant to produce AC than DC, in alternators they can produce more DC current by converting AC to DC.

Turbine/alternator, few consideration to take into account.

Exhaust gasses are hot and compressed air is hot. Electric motors dont like heat, cause insulation brakes at certain heat levels depending on raiting of insualtion, eg/ F class, H class etc etc

Low engine speed exhuast gasses probably wont be enough to give enough charge to the battery/batteries or even spin the alternator if it's got any decent load. When your doing 6000rpm will the exhaust gas volume and velocity cause the alternator to spin to quickly? Remember alternators are on a reduction drive compared to engine speed, when your doing 6000rpm the alternator isnt doing 6000rpm, it would fly apart.

The most expensive thing I think for you would be getting a turbine big enough, modding the alternator and balancing the turbine to the rotor, if it aint balanced the wheel could crack, fly apart, destroy bearings etc etc.

I think you'll have to keep the engine under load or have atleast half throttle to produce enough exhaust gasses to keep the alternator spinning. That would defeat the purpose of reducing the load of an alternator on the engine.

Having said that just above a Diesel engine would be more ideal to start playing with as at any given rpm it's sucking in as much air as a petrol engine running full throttle. To produce more exhaust gasses a positive displacement supercharger would be benificial, centrifical superchargers and turbo's wont be so much as they need to spool first.

there was a story on a current affair or something the other week, a guy had created a dual fuel car and was successfully running his car on petrol/hydrogen. He was saving $20 a week on petrol and was using about 1 litre of water every couple of weeks from memory.
I saw that except I dont think it was dual fuel as in it runs on petrol or hydrogen on their own I pretty sure he plumbed up some way that the hydrogen went in with the petrol.Which still gave him savings on his petrol.:D

Ive seen a car (yes actually seen and started myself) that ran on the used oil from fish and chip shops. When i first saw the car i thought to myself 'bloody hippies' turns out he is actually a chemical engineer with a degree in mechanical engineering as well! still looked like a hippy tho lol

Anyway from memory he used about 40L of oil to drive from Mackay to Townsville (380km) but heres the catch; he got the oil for $5 :shock: and he said that most fish and chip shops gave it to him for free when he was down south way as most shops have to pay to have it removed.

Obviously this wouldnt work if everyone was doing it but it does show what people are capable of in there back yards.


And something that has amazed me ever since grade 9 science class: Hydrogen is highly flammable, Nothing burns without the presence of oxygen. And yet you combine the 2 and what do you get? WATER (h2o) the most unflammable ever! :nuts:

And something that has amazed me ever since grade 9 science class: Hydrogen is highly flammable, Nothing burns without the presence of oxygen. And yet you combine the 2 and what do you get? WATER (h2o) the most unflammable ever! :nuts:
What are you talking about man, I've had dinner at your house and you have the ability to burn water, I've seen it with my own eyes lol

Oh well. One day ill think of something that will work lol. Back to the old drawing board. I still haven't gaven up on the idea though. Nothing would come from it, but its cool thinking up of stuff. My little blue book of schematics is getting full now :D

Ive seen a car (yes actually seen and started myself) that ran on the used oil from fish and chip shops. When i first saw the car i thought to myself 'bloody hippies' turns out he is actually a chemical engineer with a degree in mechanical engineering as well! still looked like a hippy tho lol

Actually, that's just a diesel. You can make the mixture better for performance and the engine if you add a small amount of non-kerosene based solvent. Probably a teaspoon worth. Top Gear did a segment on it, search youtube for "Top Gear: Vegetable Oil for Diesel".

Nothing like a bit of homebrew fuel. :)

although your idea is not feasible, ill give you a pat on the back for thinking outside the sqaure. Some of the worlds best inventors started out thinking and tinkering in their backyards.

The problem with hydrogen (as stated) is that to store it like lpg it needs to be cooled considerably (not possible at home safetly) and its a costly avenue. Yes hydrogen is probably the best possible fuel for the future, but there is no technology available to use it as a free/near free combustion fuel. The closest systems around make around 1.5-2.0L of hydrogen per minute though brute force electrolysis (12vdc). Now any hydrogen production sounds good right? wrong, hydrogen burns and creates water and oxygen as emissions, the oxygen content then messes up the readings from the o2 sensor of you car (the device telling the ecu how rich or lean its running th engine) and causes the ecu to increase the injector pulse (efi cars) to make the inlet charge richer (uses more fuel)

there are systems around that allow you to percentage correction of the o2 sensor signal to the ecu, and some people have managed to see an increase in milage, but they are few and far between. If you want to know where most people think the technology needs to be, its a mix of plasma electrolysis and superconductors, using both to extract large quantities of hydrogen from straight water, problem being that it still takes more power to run the system then it can create.

this is where the world needs to go if it has any chance ( its more then just oil messing up the planet) nuclear power is another, go read up on cold-fusion if you want a headache.

Keep thinking dude, all it takes is one bright spark...

google "Joe Cell"

you wont be disappointed if you are looking for fuel effiicent alternatives

Actually, that's just a diesel. You can make the mixture better for performance and the engine if you add a small amount of non-kerosene based solvent. Probably a teaspoon worth. Top Gear did a segment on it, search youtube for "Top Gear: Vegetable Oil for Diesel".

Nothing like a bit of homebrew fuel. :)
Ummm no. It runs off pure fish and chip oil, standing next to the car made me crave crumb fish lol


I know there are bio-fuel and diesel mixtures but this was unique....

Edit; reread your post and realised u said just a diesel, and yes it is a diesel engine but with many many modifications, custom fuel filters, fuel rails, injectors, ECU, the fuel tank was even moved to the roof so as to get the fuel upto the right temperature (i wanna say ~70 degrees but i could be lying)

Kieran

Edit; reread your post and realised u said just a diesel, and yes it is a diesel engine but with many many modifications, custom fuel filters, fuel rails, injectors, ECU, the fuel tank was even moved to the roof so as to get the fuel upto the right temperature (i wanna say ~70 degrees but i could be lying)

Kieran

I've seen it done to just a plain diesel, but I imagine it wouldn't be exactly the ideal setup. This though sounds like one interesting machine alright... wonder what kind of attention the roof mounted fuel tank would get? lol

Yeah, mythbusters did this with an old mercedes diesel. Pure fish N chip oil.

Bear in mind that some of the oils used in fryers are solid at room temperature. YUK.

Low engine speed exhuast gasses probably wont be enough to give enough charge to the battery/batteries or even spin the alternator if it's got any decent load. When your doing 6000rpm will the exhaust gas volume and velocity cause the alternator to spin to quickly? Remember alternators are on a reduction drive compared to engine speed, when your doing 6000rpm the alternator isnt doing 6000rpm, it would fly apart.



alternator doesnt charge at idle, also, alternator has a smaller pulley than the crank, so therefore it would be going quicker. :D

Mythbusters aso did another interesting segment on whether a car could run on gunpowder. They concluded that it wasn't possible but it was really cool!!! Youtube it.

I've seen it done to just a plain diesel, but I imagine it wouldn't be exactly the ideal setup. This though sounds like one interesting machine alright... wonder what kind of attention the roof mounted fuel tank would get? lol

The fuel tank is colour coded and its mounted on a 4X4 so it almost looks like it belongs there, wouldnt know is was a fuel tank if he didnt tell you.

Oh and by colour coded i mean it was painted in camo colours too :bowrofl: