may be a silly question.. but it there any way to override the auto's shift points so i can pick 4th gear at say 55km/h

this seems to make a massive difference in my fuel economy being cruising at just under 60km/h in 3rd.. then finally once i get onto 60km/h it drops into 4th.. using considerably less fuel..

failing that i really cannot justify keeping the Verada.. and will be forced to sell due to insane Fuel costs of running the car as i never get to open her up on the freeway or above 60-70km/h... and get any sort of respectable economy out of her..

car in question is a KJ verada

cheers

can't do it manualy, but the auto computer should set itself to either hold the gears for longer or change quicker depending on how it has been driven and adjusts acordingly.

thats what i was told once.

if you push it a lot, it will hold 3rd for longer

if u drive like gran dad, it should change to 4th quicker

try driving around slowly for a while and see if it registers this and changes. otherwise d/c the battery and reset it all and start from scratch.

why not just drive around in tippy mode all the time?
shove it into whatever gear floats your boat

why not just drive around in tippy mode all the time?
shove it into whatever gear floats your boat
:stoopid:

surely you can push the shifter over to the left, then once forward and it will shift into 4th.

nice, i didnt even realise it was a tippy!

do that

Or reset the ECu by unplugging battery and drive like grandad for a few weeks

Even it is isn't tippy, you can still push the lever manually between 1, 2, 3 and D. I did that
with my old KS.

it will not shift into 4th gear below 60km/h regardless of tippy or not.. just like it won't shift into 3rd unless your doing 40km/h..

and won't down shift into 1st unless your under 45km/h..

there preset shift parameters.. resetting the ecu doesn't do **** to that..

Oh god, just drive it to 60, tippy it into 4th, then you can drop back to 55 without it shifting to third, just keep the revs up and it won't downshift :nuts:

it will not shift into 4th gear below 60km/h regardless of tippy or not.. just like it won't shift into 3rd unless your doing 40km/h..

and won't down shift into 1st unless your under 45km/h..

there preset shift parameters.. resetting the ecu doesn't do **** to that..

Well thats pretty gay..... Mine will go into 4th, but thats over drive gear on my KS I think that is probably very different to your gearbox

A) it automatically downshifts into 3rd when the speed drops below 58km/h EVEN IN TIPTRONIC MODE

B) i can't cruise at 60 and just leave it.. as my wheels/tires throw the speedo out a bit.. 60km/h on my speedo is around 62-63.. and i am always getting stuck behind ppl doing 60 (56ish on my speedo) so i CAN'T SHIFT IT INTO 4TH

everyone follow??

seriously if it was as simple as holding it in 4th i would.. but it steps down itself in tippy and D once i drop below the 60 mark.. i am looking for a way to prevent this from happening.

Pointless because im pretty sure your fuel economy would be better if it stayed in 3rd. Even if it did make a difference, the difference would be so small you would be mad to make such a decision decide to buy a new car.

Ollie

cruising on level road

'Inst' fuel economy

3rd @ 60km/h - 14.0
4th @ 60km/h - 9.8-10.0

sounds pretty significant to me..

try getting the car to re-learn as mentioned above.

cruising on level road

'Inst' fuel economy

3rd @ 60km/h - 14.0
4th @ 60km/h - 9.8-10.0

sounds pretty significant to me..

I agree and that sounds like a pretty damn annoying problem, not sure what you meant Ollie :nuts:

Manual conversion?

WTF has no body taken notice of the shift parameters in the gen 3 tippy before??

UPshifting
1st/2nd you can select at zero.. you can shift into 2nd at any time..

3rd must be doing at least 40km/h to shift into

4th at least 60km/h

DOWNshifting
i don't know the limits exactly, but you can down shift from 4th/3rd/2nd at 100-110, havn't tried any faster, havn't needed to..

down from 2nd to 1st you have to be under 45ISH km/h..

if you are slowing down from above 60km/h once it has reached 58km/h it will drop back into 3rd.. regardless of tippy/D mode..

hope that helps people understand the PRESET shift nature of the 4spd auto..

i was looking into a manual conversion.. but i am just that ****ing much over the car i'm ready to burn it.. it's gone from a nice car to the scum of the planet in my mind..

the ecu works by values taken form the rotation speed of the driveshaft...revs, and throttle opening...not speed as such. I would get the car checked out cos i dont reckon you should be dropping back to third. If you are it could be normal due to you backing off or light throttle. In fact i didn't think they did drop back unless there is no throttle at all.

yeh.. i realise that the downshifing normally is controlled by that..

ok.. to show you what i mean.. who has a tippy??

drive at 70km/h in tippy mode.. then off the accelerator.. watch your speed drop and watch the gear map automatically drop down once it reaches it's pre determind speed..

cruising on level road

'Inst' fuel economy

3rd @ 60km/h - 14.0
4th @ 60km/h - 9.8-10.0

sounds pretty significant to me..
Sure, it may say that, but in real world figures it would not be much different.

When it accelerates in 3rd gear, it will be a really quick stint, so not using much fuel, but accelerating in 4th it will require a longer acceleration period, thus burning more petrol than in 3rd.

Edit: So because it drops back a gear, it is the scum of the planet?

Put the stock wheels (or stock sized wheels) back on?

yeh.. i realise that the downshifing normally is controlled by that..

ok.. to show you what i mean.. who has a tippy??

drive at 70km/h in tippy mode.. then off the accelerator.. watch your speed drop and watch the gear map automatically drop down once it reaches it's pre determind speed..
I have a tippy, and I know what you mean, but why don't you just do what I said a couple of posts up, drive it to 60, upshift, then if you continue to drive normally, it wont downshift. Downshift cutoff for 4th is 55km/h.

i think its been pretty much confirmed in the past, that you cannot change the shifting points (to pick up or let go of a gear), the TCU has the ability to learn, but it wont learn to the point that we all want them too.

AWD / 5speed Auto owners on here would LOVE it im sure (me included) to be able to reprogram / modify our transmissions to hold onto 4th until at least 60km/hr - the only way we get around it, is to tippy a selection...

you *MIGHT* be able to interupt the signal line -pos the output shaft from the transmission- possibly by means of a small resistor of sorts to make the TCU think its going slower than it actually is, but i think thats where the speedo gets its signal from as well, so you would be driving with a rather inaccurate speedo..
(thats a very left of center idea, dont quote me or try it and then blame me for it stuffing your car up)

I get your frustration now.

I don't think you can remap the automatic down shift points. it used to drive me crazy at the track, as you can't shift down into 1st until 40-45, yet if you're in first you can rev it out to about 70. means you have to take ~50 corners in second at about 3k rpm, instead of first at about 4.5k rpm.

I haven't tried to find the limit of down shifting from third to second. second goes to about 160, so I would assume it's something around 130 or so.

as mentioned, going to legal sized tyres (OD) would help your cause.

cheers,
.wook

yeh.. i realise that the downshifing normally is controlled by that..

ok.. to show you what i mean.. who has a tippy??

drive at 70km/h in tippy mode.. then off the accelerator.. watch your speed drop and watch the gear map automatically drop down once it reaches it's pre determind speed..

It is not a pre determined speed. It drops down based on revs of output shaft. It's controlled like that for a reason. If you were to travel in a high range gear at such low speed it would labour the engine too much, and can cause engine damage. e.g(extreme) I was told of a person who drove a car in 4th constantly(manual) takes offs and all. Eventually broke the crank.
I understand why you are pissed at the situation. maybe get a bullbar and move the cars in front up to speed:)

lol..

yeh it's not the fact that the other cars arn't doing 60...

they are doing 60.. but my 60 is more like 63 thanks to the 20's lol..

it's incredibly frustrating cos i have noticed.. the times where i'm not stuck behing cars on the way to work my avg fuel drops to 12's.. but when i'm not able to use 4th.. it's in the 14's..


with the fuel economy i'm getting at the moment.. - 440km's to fuel light constantly on

YES it is the scum of the universe.. considering to travel that 440km's has cost me $98.00..



thanks for your help.. and pretty much confriming what i had already thought.. either deal with it.. swap rims/tyres.. or convert to manual..

i've pretty much made up my mind that i'll just get rid of her.. and buy something that will be much lighter on the fuel.. and much more fun in the corners!! :)

cheers everyone

and megatone - yeh i know the harmoncis at those low speeds will kill cranks and input shafts.. i've seen it..

all i wanted to do was be able to do say 55km (real speed) in 4th.. i wouldn't be always getting into 4th.. just make a small 5km extra allowance.. lol.. simple (i wish!)

Well thats pretty gay..... Mine will go into 4th, but thats over drive gear on my KS I think that is probably very different to your gearbox
I wouldn't advise driving around in OD at 55, can put alot of wear on the OD gear.

As for the OP, yeh you can't change it, mitsubishi have hard set the shift points. Maybe you should get rid of the POS...

hey matty.c,

I have a 3rd gen tippy (TL) and found that driving really sedately for a week or two and using the tippy to change up as early as humanly (machinley?) possible it will slowly lower the 3rd to 4th speed cutoff.

So my 3rd to 4th is around 57 and 2nd to 3rd is about 36.

Don't give up hope! You might miss the 'rada when its gone

I have a tippy, and I know what you mean, but why don't you just do what I said a couple of posts up, drive it to 60, upshift, then if you continue to drive normally, it wont downshift. Downshift cutoff for 4th is 55km/h.

This is what I typically do, won't click over into 4th until 60 (not even 59), but can cruise along comfortably at 1100RPM at about 55.

Sell the Verada and buy a 380 (which is what I did). It changes into fifth @60kmh.

Sell the Verada and buy a 380 (which is what I did). It changes into fifth @60kmh.

then hes gunna be in the same boat again isnt he...

i thought this thread was about how the transmission will kick into a high gear too early (ie labour up)
with the 380's extra ratio in there too, its going to be worse.

personally - with my 5speed auto, i would like it to hold onto 4th until at least 60km/hr (but most of the time.. will let it do its own thing and labour along in whatever gear it thinks it wants)

No. He's not going to be worse off. The 380 has greater torque low down so it can change into a lower ration sooner - what he's talking about, Doddski.

B) i can't cruise at 60 and just leave it.. as my wheels/tires throw the speedo out a bit.. 60km/h on my speedo is around 62-63.. and i am always getting stuck behind ppl doing 60 (56ish on my speedo) so i CAN'T SHIFT IT INTO 4TH


Presumiing your car came with 16" rims, your current tyre/wheel package is only throwing your speedo out by .3%, so it shouldn't make too much difference. My wheel/tyre combo throws my speedo out by 1% and I manage to do what Lucifer says. It is annoying but once you get used to it it's ok, I guess.


I have a tippy, and I know what you mean, but why don't you just do what I said a couple of posts up, drive it to 60, upshift, then if you continue to drive normally, it wont downshift. Downshift cutoff for 4th is 55km/h.

Matty.c

Do what I do.... every 2nd or 3rd service (At mitsubishi) I get the guys to relearn the tippy 5speed with the MUT-II.
It's instant and gives you what you're looking for without spending 3 weeks driving like a grandad...
I becomes sooooo ultra smooth you won't recognise your own car....


My auto will change to 4th at 45km/h... no crap either...both in auto (Throttle dependant of course) and tippy...

My fuel economy dipped from mid 11's to mid 12's per 100km
down to 9.5 - 10 l/100km....

Do it... Rada's are great cars.... hate to see someone sell a nice ride for something that's easily rectified...

If you're in Sydney I can recommend a guy at Parramatta mitsubishi that does mine... Brilliant!!!

Steve

may be a silly question.. but it there any way to override the auto's shift points so i can pick 4th gear at say 55km/h

this seems to make a massive difference in my fuel economy being cruising at just under 60km/h in 3rd.. then finally once i get onto 60km/h it drops into 4th.. using considerably less fuel..

failing that i really cannot justify keeping the Verada.. and will be forced to sell due to insane Fuel costs of running the car as i never get to open her up on the freeway or above 60-70km/h... and get any sort of respectable economy out of her..

car in question is a KJ verada

cheers

Hi Matty - don't sell the 'rada just yet :shock:

I agree with what you say about the changedown points - I find the same thing is annoying when forced to go downhill in 3rd gear eg in a 50Km/hr zone, but equally it is good to be in 3rd gear when you are going uphill, and you just want to blip the throttle to go safely 'round a slow turning vehicle

I think if you can find the reason for the excessive fuel consumption - then you will be better off, because you are noticing that it is worse at lower speeds relatively than at higher speeds

If you notice that when you leave the car undriven for one whole day, and then start the car cold the next day, and it runs roughly for maybe 1-2 mins and then smooths out, then you could have an internal fuel leak

Two of the most common causes are a leaking fuel regulator or a leaking fuel injector

Start the car, stop it after 1 min and look for a vacuum line that is wet from sucking up fuel, that may be your problem

Have your injectors cleaned OFF the car and checked with a leak-down test

This will be causing it to run rich - so after you remedy the problem it will run smoother and give you improved performance

Cheers, Barry

Sell the Verada and buy a 380 (which is what I did). It changes into fifth @60kmh.

Actually, the 380 has been programmed to change to 5th at 40km/hr which is also achievable
on the 3rd gen 5spd autos.

Edit: It makes a big difference whether I manually change to 5th at 40 or at 60.

So my 3rd to 4th is around 57 and 2nd to 3rd is about 36.
That's stock mate ;)

Sure, it may say that, but in real world figures it would not be much different.

When it accelerates in 3rd gear, it will be a really quick stint, so not using much fuel, but accelerating in 4th it will require a longer acceleration period, thus burning more petrol than in 3rd.

Edit: So because it drops back a gear, it is the scum of the planet?
Wonder what he thinks of driving a VN if a Verada is the scum of the planet

I hav the 4spd tippy and it is exactly the same. Any slower than 58km/h and u cant get into 4th. There is no way to do it.

I wonder if the EVO scan link system or anything similar can adjust this. Like what a couple members have hooked to there car pcs.

Sure, it may say that, but in real world figures it would not be much different.

When it accelerates in 3rd gear, it will be a really quick stint, so not using much fuel, but accelerating in 4th it will require a longer acceleration period, thus burning more petrol than in 3rd.

Edit: So because it drops back a gear, it is the scum of the planet?

Not that simple. Depends on load/rpm/timing fuel maps aren't linear.

Hi Matty - don't sell the 'rada just yet :shock:

I agree with what you say about the changedown points - I find the same thing is annoying when forced to go downhill in 3rd gear eg in a 50Km/hr zone, but equally it is good to be in 3rd gear when you are going uphill, and you just want to blip the throttle to go safely 'round a slow turning vehicle

I think if you can find the reason for the excessive fuel consumption - then you will be better off, because you are noticing that it is worse at lower speeds relatively than at higher speeds

If you notice that when you leave the car undriven for one whole day, and then start the car cold the next day, and it runs roughly for maybe 1-2 mins and then smooths out, then you could have an internal fuel leak

Two of the most common causes are a leaking fuel regulator or a leaking fuel injector

Start the car, stop it after 1 min and look for a vacuum line that is wet from sucking up fuel, that may be your problem

Have your injectors cleaned OFF the car and checked with a leak-down test

This will be causing it to run rich - so after you remedy the problem it will run smoother and give you improved performance

Cheers, Barry

just gave her an oil change and coolant change on the weekend, i'll pull the injectors out and get the guy to ultrasonicly clean them, i'll make some calls for a fuel reg also, i don't mind spending a little bit on it, cause if the economy comes down to an acceptable level i might consider keeping it.. but that seems like a light at the end of a very very long tunnel...

put your stock wheels back on and see what happens to the fuel consumption then

I'd be putting your stock airbox back on mate, that Oval K&N won't be helping you economy.

if you're basing your fuel economy on your trip computer your wheels and tyres will be causing problems with that too.

not only do you have more unsprung, rotational mass to move (assuming your 20"s weigh more than the stockies), but the wheels are travelling more per revolution than the trip computer is calibrated for, which leads to erroneous calculations in fuel consumption.

cheers,
.wook

not only do you have more unsprung, rotational mass to move (assuming your 20"s weigh more than the stockies), but the wheels are travelling more per revolution than the trip computer is calibrated for, which leads to erroneous calculations in fuel consumption.
Will it make the readings higher or lower though?

Will it make the readings higher or lower though?
higher, because the car will think it's travelled less than it actually has.

yeh true, i don't think that the speedo is out as much as i thought. i was driving right next to my mates new civic Type R and on the digital HUD our speed was the same at 100km/h..

but yeh.. i always reset the trip meter, and from memory i usually returned 46L for 310km, thats an average tuesday > tuesday fill for me.. since the O2 sensor and the airfilter/MAF clean it has noticeable resored some response and economy has got better, but still not fantastic..

p.s. i have all the bits cept for the filter itself to put the Pod filter back on :) i was way ahead of you on that..

i also removed my MAF and used some contact cleaner to clean the guts out, just incase the pre oiled K&n had too much oil and was causing the MAF to read incorrectly, this is a big problem in nissans.. and cleaned the filter with the kit and only very very libirally applied the filter oil..

but yes.. will be putting the stock one back in.. just waiting for a K&N panel to arrive from ebay (was the same price as a valvoline paper filter from supercheap, so why not eh?)

cheers for all your help guys.. i take it no-one really wants me to sell the verada?? she is a good car, and she does get looked after, detailed every couple of weeks, gets a new oil and filter every 5k etc etc.. honestly i never thought fuel economy was ever going to be a major issue.. but now it seems like it is a major concern when buying/maintaining a car..

cheers for all your help guys.. i take it no-one really wants me to sell the verada??

According to Redbook, a 2001 Corolla Conquest Auto uses 8.5l/100km in surburban driving, and your Verada uses 11l/100km.

So if you use 2.5l/100km less. That's ~7.5l saved a week, or $10.50 at $1.40/l. If your driving pattern is consistent, it means you'd be spending $3350 a year to fuel the Verada, verse $2800 for the Corolla. Even if the Corolla used 4l/100km less than the Verada, it'd still cost you $2475 a year to fill up (or a saving of $875).

I know that the difference will be more pronounced if fuel prices rise again, or if you went to a small hatchback (although I could never buy something so small as my one and only car); and it doesn't take into consideration other running costs. But your Verada is one hell of a car, and to me at least, the extra fuel cost can be justified. And on the other hand, if you find something that's causing your somewhat higher than normal fuel consumption, the savings you'd get by buying a smaller car are only going to deminish.

Oh, and the Corolla I mentioned is actually $2k more expensive than your Verada second-hand. So you'd need to drive it for a couple of years to actually come out on top...

If you decide to sell the Verada, then so be it, just don't make any rash decisions.

just gave her an oil change and coolant change on the weekend, i'll pull the injectors out and get the guy to ultrasonicly clean them, i'll make some calls for a fuel reg also, i don't mind spending a little bit on it, cause if the economy comes down to an acceptable level i might consider keeping it.. but that seems like a light at the end of a very very long tunnel...

Don't pay for a fuel reg just on speculation - the whole idea is to do it as economically as possible

Actually I am going through this myself at the moment - I had been running an indicated average fuel consumption of 7.9L/ 100Km for about a year, when it increased to ~10L on motorway and 12's on suburbs (with the symptoms of rough running when starting cold)

I plan to take the car to an EFI specialist, pull out the injectors 1 at a time and have them leak tested while I wait - I also have 1 new injector ready to replace a faulty one if necessary

I should have it finished by the end of this week, so I can post my results then

BTW, can you confirm your intake is not sucking hot air?

she only sucks hot air.. through that Hot Air Induction i hooked up.. haha.. yeh it has a pod filter in the engine bay.. i've got all the air box peices just waiting on the panel filter to arrive..

with the fuel reg i was just going to pop down to the local wreckers and nick one off a magna there.. hopefully the white TL that i saw there.. just to try it and see if thats the problem..

no it doesn't run mega rough when cold.. but the instant economy gets stupidly heavy at part throttle.. which makes me think fuel reg..

i know about the economy i'm ment to be getting my TH that i gave my old man still gets consistant 10.7's and it's a daily city/some motorway driver.. i used to get about 650 to a tank in it no sweat.. mind you the TH has 220 km's on it also! but i did serviceing by the book (with an extra oil/filter change in between the recomended intervals) and it runs beautiful.. and still pulls very hard

good to hear your'e slowly coming round. I hope it works out for ya. I am pretty sure I saw your car at Sunnybank one night a couple of months back. It's a nice looking ride.

yeh that would have been me, prolly underneath the cinima's?? :) thanks

Barry - you have PM

yeh that would have been me, prolly underneath the cinima's?? :) thanks
briefly driving along side. i turned into the shopping centre mains rd

I moved my Throttle position sensor about 1-2mm, (clockwise from memory) upshifts now occur earlier during acceleration for the given throttle position. This may or may not help with your 4th gear issue but it may be worth a try, just mark your original position. I found my transmission held gears too long for my liking and no amount of resets seemed to work. Engine still runs fine, 10.6 avg on the display, that's pretty good for AWD, not open road driving either.

Don't pay for a fuel reg just on speculation - the whole idea is to do it as economically as possible

Actually I am going through this myself at the moment - I had been running an indicated average fuel consumption of 7.9L/ 100Km for about a year, when it increased to ~10L on motorway and 12's on suburbs (with the symptoms of rough running when starting cold)

I plan to take the car to an EFI specialist, pull out the injectors 1 at a time and have them leak tested while I wait - I also have 1 new injector ready to replace a faulty one if necessary

I should have it finished by the end of this week, so I can post my results then

BTW, can you confirm your intake is not sucking hot air?

An update on excessive fuel consumption…Post # 51

Took the TJ2 to an EFI specialist and pulled the injectors out – had them ultrasonically cleaned

The operator was not too familiar with the disc type ( yellow body) injectors, so while they were being cleaned I walked ‘round to another workshop for advice

He suggested that the disc may have deteriorated internally, and that I should replace them, but he could not get that type of injector from his usual supplier

Refitted the injectors – car seemed to run better, although when queried, the operator could not verify that they had all passed a leak-down test

While the inlet manifold was off the engine I noticed one of the spark plug leads had a brown section, indicating a point of deterioration

All leads measured OK for resistance, but I replaced them, along with a new fuel filter and rotor button

Now she runs fine, with a smooth, even exhaust tone, no soot and the growl from the Lukey muffler has returned

Cheers, Barry