Hey guys. I've been doing a bit of looking around at the differences between a supercharger VS a turbo. I can gather that a turbo is an exhaust driven supercharger and a supercharger is driven by the crankshaft or something. SO i know that superchargers dont produce lag where turbo's do. What would be better on the 2.6 astron is the question im getting at, and overall, what is better?


SUPERCHARGER VS TURBOCHARGER

The 2.6L Astron is an old motor, although, I *think* they used to make a turbocharged one on sigmas?

They used a TD03 ~ TD04 turbo I think.

Stick with the turbo option, and If your REALLY keen, Ill sell you my TD05H-16G6 Turbocharger.

I guess another cheap option is a 2nd hand toyota Eaton supercharger. But I still think the turbo wins. Especially If you can score one off an EVO.

Regards,
Alex

The 2.6L Astron is an old motor, although, I *think* they used to make a turbocharged one on sigmas?

They used a TD03 ~ TD04 turbo I think.

Stick with the turbo option, and If your REALLY keen, Ill sell you my TD05H-16G6 Turbocharger.

Regards,
Alex

The Sigmas did have a turbo. Its quite easy to turbo the little 2.6 compared to the bigger v6s found in our magnas.

I could go into a big discussion about Turbo vs Superchargers, both have pros and cons. Some Supercharges do have "lag" others dont. But, in terms of your car. Turbo is better, simply because its much easier

^ Yupp!

Turbo would be much easyer... too much stuffing around with a supercharger. Besides, Im sure with the turbo you could track down alot of cheaper parts from sigma turbos.

Only problem with the sigma turbo was that to get it engineered nowdays, you would have to go to efi, as you have to meet emissions now :( And a single suck-through SU carby is a bit naff...

I seem to remember something about using a starion manifold on these? For an efi system.

Also a suck-through system needs carbon oil seals on the turbo, as you suck the oil out of standard seals under engine vacuum - blow-though carby requires a fuel pressure pump (with a vacuum/pressure referenced RRFPR) and a sealed carby (or a carby in a sealed case) - I did a few old-school turbo conversions when I was younger...

Only problem with the sigma turbo was that to get it engineered nowdays, you would have to go to efi, as you have to meet emissions now :( And a single suck-through SU carby is a bit naff...

I seem to remember something about using a starion manifold on these? For an efi system.

Also a suck-through system needs carbon oil seals on the turbo, as you suck the oil out of standard seals under engine vacuum - blow-though carby requires a fuel pressure pump (with a vacuum/pressure referenced RRFPR) and a sealed carby (or a carby in a sealed case) - I did a few old-school turbo conversions when I was younger...

Starion uses a 4G63. Cordia uses a 4G62, sigmas used a 4G54 but the turbo model was a 2.0L, so you might not have the best use out of the turbo in higher end I suppose.

In general, going on what i've seen with other cars, 4cylls go well with turbos aswell as any in-line really. v6's, v8's are better with superchargers because of the two banks make it more dificult to turbo.

Also, Re: Tonba, yes, the Astron is a VERY old motor, with origins going back to a diesel motor. lol. hence why they're so bloody strong and have a mountain of torque when compared to their power readout... lol

For what it will likely cost, is it worth it?? I'm all for modifying, but... yeah.

Honest answer - to do it properly, no. To do a half-assed turbo conversion that is unengineered (and hence unroadworthy and uninsurable) would be cheap(ish), especially on a carby vehicle, did an old Toyota 3G motor (iirc) with a similar setup, cost about 2 grand including dizzy regraphing. Then the wastegate got stuck, and it was all over :(

His motor is EFI guys. Just so ya know :)

if only i still had my pajero that could have given u most of the set up. it was a carb 2.6L petrol turbo. sold it to some guy doing the same thing, but in a 'rolla. maybe have a look for some stagea parts? thats where mine came from...

Ahh Turbo vs Supercharger...

If you have money to throw at this project go the turbocharger - but it will most likely be more expensive.

The most important thing to remember with the supercharger is that you need power to make power and is most affected by how quickly your car revs (since superchargers build power the higher you go in the rev range).

Ahh Turbo vs Supercharger...

If you have money to throw at this project go the turbocharger - but it will most likely be more expensive.

The most important thing to remember with the supercharger is that you need power to make power and is most affected by how quickly your car revs (since superchargers build power the higher you go in the rev range).
Being an asstron - it fails at revving.

I dunno i think this thread is useless really. Start off with a good motor in the first place. I.e. something with 4 valves per cylinder and a DOHC configuration (I wouldnt bother modding a SOHC, its like trying to make an E series falcon go quick VS a B series falcon...)

the astron is a good engine, and gives plenty of room play with in a magna.

If its a tired engine (stock and old) then leave it be, you are only going to kill it.

']Being an asstron - it fails at revving.

I dunno i think this thread is useless really. Start off with a good motor in the first place. I.e. something with 4 valves per cylinder and a DOHC configuration (I wouldnt bother modding a SOHC, its like trying to make an E series falcon go quick VS a B series falcon...)
Some sense in this thread, woo!

For the money you'll spend rebuilding your engine for boost, you may as well swap in a 4G63T from a Galant VR4, that way it's built for boost already, and you know it's good for something.

the astron is a good engine, and gives plenty of room play with in a magna.

If its a tired engine (stock and old) then leave it be, you are only going to kill it.
Its good, but wont rev happily after 5500, makes clean power in the midrange though. What I meant was if your going to do this i would try to use a better building block, I would be finding the DOHC 16V equiv (I think its a 4G64T? The one from the lancer??)

Take for example in the 2nd gens the standard SOHC 12V makes 120kw, few extra cams and valves and it puts out another 30kw, a better base engine from the start will yield better results, but yes will cost more money, if not then just talk to 86_elite about turboing an asstron

Edit* Corrected by Luci, a 4G63T..

']Being an asstron - it fails at revving.

I dunno i think this thread is useless really. Start off with a good motor in the first place. I.e. something with 4 valves per cylinder and a DOHC configuration (I wouldnt bother modding a SOHC, its like trying to make an E series falcon go quick VS a B series falcon...)

Actually I know of some guys who've had fairly good results from Astron motors. They aren't the most sophisticated or revvable motor, but they do have a few things working in their favour.

Astron motors, parts, and parts needed for turboing are dirt cheap. And while they don't rev very hard, the relatively large capacity and long stroke means with FI they can make decent power at moderate revs.

IMO as long as you go about it sensibly and things don't go horribly wrong, bang for the buck they aren't a bad thing. It's amazing just how cheaply you can turbo an Astron motor and get reasonable results.

There's no reason why you can't get good results from a motor just because it's SOHC. That's like saying Holden LSx V8 motors are rubbish because they use ancient pushrod technology - yet they **** all over the Boss V8 with it's DOHC and 4 valved per cylinder.

E.g our 3.5L 6G74 magna motors might be SOHC, but the heads flow decent figures with some work, and I know of examples that comfortably rev to 7500-8000rpm with no problems and minimal changes to the bottom end and valvetrain.

There's no reason why you can't get good results from a motor just because it's SOHC. That's like saying Holden LSx V8 motors are rubbish because they use ancient pushrod technology - yet they **** all over the Boss V8 with it's DOHC and 4 valved per cylinder.
I'd say the main advantage there would be their weight... I do have a certain level of respect for pushrod engines however, don't confuse that ;)

SUPERCHARGER VS TURBOCHARGER

In your case I think youll find it much cheaper to get a turbo setup going, because the parts you need for turboing are cheap and available.

The supercharger vs turbochargers debate is a complex one, it really comes down to the specific application and a number of variables. But to generalise:

turbo pros:
-Often cheaper, due to availability of second-hand and off-the-shelf parts.
-Often better understood/supported by aftermarket workshops.
-Often easier logistically, e.g easy to intercool, turbos are more compact than chargers, don't have to worry about potentially troublesome pulleys.
-Upsizing turbos is usually much simpler than charger
-Parastic loss tends to be a bit less for the same application.

Positive displacement (e.g twin screw, roots) Charger pros:
-Sounds much better (subjective, and depends on application).
-Practically instant boost from off-idle.
-Benefits from intercooling, but does not require it (depending on type of blower and boost level).
-Much more novelty value due to being much less common than turbo setups
-Service life on chargers is usually much longer than turbos (when things are going smoothly).

I put centrifugal superchargers in a different category, because they are essentally belt-driven turbo setups, with a mixed set of pros and cons from the super and turbo families. E.g they don't muffle the exhaust like turbos do, but suffer from "lag" to some extent.

I'd say the main advantage there would be their weight... I do have a certain level of respect for pushrod engines however, don't confuse that ;)

Actually the LSx motors are significantly lighter than the Ford BOSS. DOHC heads are actually heavier than simpler designs.

Actually the LSx motors are significantly lighter than the Ford BOSS. DOHC heads are actually heavier than simpler designs.
That's what I was getting at mate.

I admit my original post was rather poorly worded, re-reading it I barely understand where I was coming from :P

Actually the LSx motors are significantly lighter than the Ford BOSS. DOHC heads are actually heavier than simpler designs.

I thought we were talking in terms of the weight of the cars. I'm pretty sure the falcon has over another 100kg on the holden.

Turbo the astron as said its not hard.

I put centrifugal superchargers in a different category, because they are essentally belt-driven turbo setups, with a mixed set of pros and cons from the super and turbo families. E.g they don't muffle the exhaust like turbos do, but suffer from "lag" to some extent.

So if you did add these as an option would you still suggest turbos or would go the centrifugal supercharger? Also roughly how much does each option cost? I know it can vary depending on the unit you get but I'm still keen to find out how much they can cost.

from the sounds of it theres mixed opinions... people saying its not worth it... people saying it is worth it...

I agree that the parts would be easier and cheaper to get than the supercharger, but a supercharger wouldnt need new intake manifold and intercooler though would it?

using a turbo from a sigma that is quite possibly 20 years old would be a bit risky i would think...

what would be a safe boost to run on it? Im not too sure on the state of the engine i think its moderately in good nick, LegionAir would know better than I do as he and his dad have done the work to it, i just got it thru good timing :D

I want to get my mechanic to run thru the engine and make sure everything is in tip-top condition. Like a half assed reco i spose lol. before i turbo it I will be modding extensively anyway. Eg: extractors, rampod, port and polish most areas, M9 heads (DO i need the love heart shaped pistons for this mod??? no one seems to know...) Manual conversion (YES I will still be doing this... all good things take time... and money :doubt:) but i do eventually want to turbo it.



Stick with the turbo option, and If your REALLY keen, Ill sell you my TD05H-16G6 Turbocharger.

really? how much?


I guess another cheap option is a 2nd hand toyota Eaton supercharger. But I still think the turbo wins. Especially If you can score one off an EVO.

From an EVO hey??? I might look around at the wreckers and see what i can score...


thanks for all the replies..

Major question, how much money do you have to spend?

Chisolm - Of course some engines give alot better results then others, but as a base rule, I would say you would have a better starting block if you had more cams/valves as opposed to not.
With any engine you can get power out of it, Just depends on the old $$ figure you have i guess..
But I mean in the US they are running 6G72TT motors (Thats the 3L DOHC) and making over 1000AWHP, which is alot more then i think any SOHC motor (Weather V or Inline) will get too..
Another quick example again is the falcon 6's (No I'm not an expert, just typing some facts) Most powerful EL Falcon (SOHC 12V) I think makes 48xKw (Its a $150K car though!) whereas with the BA motors (DOHC 24v) they can make 1000kw

But Chisolm If i had the chance to put an LS1 in any type of car i would, great bang for buck engine

Hey bro, with the motor, it prob still needs the stem seals to be done.
I reckon, if your going to turbo it, then re-build the motor. Its done how many kms? 215k? Even if it ran perfectly smooth, at that level of km's it would be a good idea to rebuild the top end.
Saves you trouble later on.

Id be more worried about the bottome end...

Bearings, rings etc.

I wonder if an exhaust manifold & injectors from a 4G63 would fit?

If they can, this could prove to be a cost effective upgrade...

Also, Ive noticed you have an Auto. Perhaps you sould sell it and buy a manual... it would be MUCH cheaper!!!

Regards,
Alex

How much money? at the moment not a great deal... about 320 per fortnight im living on until I finish school.

Yer, I would probably rebuild the engine when i turbo. no point turboing, stuffing the engine and starting again.

Manual? I will be converting mate dont worry.

the exhaust manifold and injectors from a 4G63? what is this out of?

thanks

How much money? at the moment not a great deal... about 320 per fortnight im living on until I finish school.

Yer, I would probably rebuild the engine when i turbo. no point turboing, stuffing the engine and starting again.

Manual? I will be converting mate dont worry.

the exhaust manifold and injectors from a 4G63? what is this out of?

thanks

Start saving mate, Think 86_Elite has spent well over $10K rebuilding his asstron for boost....
My advice - on low income, which is what I'm on, save save save, and then when you can afford it get it, no use being in debt to anyone for cars..

You could probably get a 4G63T for about $3K if you looked hard enough - Thats what I'd be doing hands down mate. GL anyway if you do decide to go through with it etc

I MAY be selling my Exhaust manafold, TD05H-16G6 (Standard Evo 8 Turbo), Dump Pipe, Front Pipe, Cat, Intercooler, Injectors (530cc) & Intercooler Piping soon, if anyone with an astron is interested.

It MAY all line up, or be close to...Perhaps minor modifications?

I MAY be selling my Exhaust manafold, TD05H-16G6 (Standard Evo 8 Turbo), Dump Pipe, Front Pipe, Cat, Intercooler, Injectors (530cc) & Intercooler Piping soon, if anyone with an astron is interested.

It MAY all line up, or be close to...Perhaps minor modifications?

my brother might be interested for his 4g63T galant, what price you looking for? ball park figure is fine. My brother comes back from WA in 2 weeks time and im sick of his car sitting in my yard

Being that i just recently went down the boosted path with my TH, imho it is rather pointless doing it to a first gen being that you will lose whatever reliability you had, also the chassis, gearbox, CV's, Brakes, Engine Mounts may not be able to withstand the power increase, i would save and look at a pre boosted car if i were you, less hassles and yes its less unique but it will probably save you money in the long run.


P.S. Go a Blower, its worth it just for the noise from 2grand onward, its porn :P