Still collecting parts for cam upgrade etc and have some questions.

First question. Call me an engine techncial ignoramus, but looking at parts catalogue and workshop manual and neither mention camshaft bearings. So what the hell do the 6G72/74 cams run in to make them run all smoothy??

Second question - the cam dowel pins. What experience have people had with fitting Ralliart or 380 cams to TF? Were the the cam dowel pins on your new cams in the same place as the TF std ones?? This has only come up as was talking to RPW the other day about their vernier cam gears, and I was asked what cams I was going to run. When I asked why I was told that Mitsu changed the positioning of the dowel pins on some models and that (obviously) this would be a problem for me if the pins on the Ralliart ones are not in same positioning as the TF 6G72's. I really don't want to have to pull the cams only to find the Ralliart pins don't line up.... Anybody had experience with this?

The camshafts run inside tunnels in the cylinder head - there's no bearing involved.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60559

Have a look at the sixth photo.

This kind of makes the heads and cams disposable - If you've got excessive play, there's no way to use oversized bearings to take up the slack.

The camshafts run inside tunnels in the cylinder head - there's no bearing involved.

http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60559

Have a look at the sixth photo.

This kind of makes the heads and cams disposable - If you've got excessive play, there's no way to use oversized bearings to take up the slack.
O, right. I've actually just gone down to the garage and tried to slot the cams into the heads. I see what you mean -they're actually a tight fit. Weird tho. The BM's I owned previously ran bearings. Never seen anything like this.

Can anybody help on the dowel pins question??

I've had a bit of a look at the Service Manual, and it's got quite a bit in it about specific cams.

The TH and earlier cams were identical for 3.0 and 3.5L engines - intake, exhaust, duration and overlap are exactly the same.

TJ is where things get a bit different, with the camshaft revision. The cam fitted to the TJ 3.5, TL and TW, and Ralliart are the same - which goes against everything I've always thought and heard. Unless there's a **** up in the manual, the camshafts in a TL are the same as the same as the camshafts in a TJ Ralliart.

It may well be that there's a difference in the dowelling position between camshaft revisions - I'll be buggered if I can find anything though. Maybe JasonsVRX might be able to shed some light on the matter?

I've had a bit of a look at the Service Manual, and it's got quite a bit in it about specific cams.

The TH and earlier cams were identical for 3.0 and 3.5L engines - intake, exhaust, duration and overlap are exactly the same.

TJ is where things get a bit different, with the camshaft revision. The cam fitted to the TJ 3.5, TL and TW, and Ralliart are the same - which goes against everything I've always thought and heard. Unless there's a **** up in the manual, the camshafts in a TL are the same as the same as the camshafts in a TJ Ralliart.

It may well be that there's a difference in the dowelling position between camshaft revisions - I'll be buggered if I can find anything though. Maybe JasonsVRX might be able to shed some light on the matter?

if thats the case, you bloody beauty! probably a **** up...

That's why I think there's a ballsup somewhere.


| INT OPENS | INT CLOSES | EXT OPENS | EXT CLOSES | DUR | O'LAP
TJ Ralliart 13* 55* 51* 17* 248/248 30*
TL 13* 55* 51* 17* 248/248 30*

That's directly from the online manual.

edit: apologies for the crap table

That's why I think there's a ballsup somewhere.


| INT OPENS | INT CLOSES | EXT OPENS | EXT CLOSES | DUR | O'LAP
TJ Ralliart 13* 55* 51* 17* 248/248 30*
TL 13* 55* 51* 17* 248/248 30*

That's directly from the online manual.

Thats right, Ralliart magna cams had the same valve timing and duration as any other TJ onwards cam, only difference for the ralliart magna cams was they had 1.1mm more lift than stock. All TJ onwards cams were known inside MMAL as the number "6" cams, TH's had the number "4" cams.

You wont find actual lobe height (or lobe lift) in any mitsubishi workshop manuals.

Thats right, Ralliart magna cams had the same valve timing and duration as any other TJ onwards cam, only difference for the ralliart magna cams was they had 1.1mm more lift than stock. All TJ onwards cams were known inside MMAL as the number "6" cams, TH's had the number "4" cams.

You wont find actual lobe height (or lobe lift) in any mitsubishi workshop manuals.

Thanks for that.

If one was to slot in the Ralliart cams, without any other 'Ralliart' mods, would there really be a quantifiable power/torque gain?

Thanks for that.

If one was to slot in the Ralliart cams, without any other 'Ralliart' mods, would there really be a quantifiable power/torque gain?

it will all add up to a platform to build on... thats how i see it

it will all add up to a platform to build on... thats how i see it

True. For us, personally I think it's not really a worthwhile mod - all we'd be gaining is a slight increase in valve lift. For earlier motors though, there might be something in them.

True. For us, personally I think it's not really a worthwhile mod - all we'd be gaining is a slight increase in valve lift. For earlier motors though, there might be something in them.
Which is exactly why I'm doing it, assuming that there's no prob with the dowel pin location. I'll try PMing Jason and see what he knows. In the meantime, if any of you can shed any more light on this please let me know. So the question remains:

Will a TJ Ralliart cam go straight into a TF 3.0 without probs re the dowelling pin location? Anybody?

I remember a previous post.
I believe that there is a 6° difference between the 6G72 and 6G74 engines.

Try contacting RPW and asking for a stage 1 cam for your engine and ask what angle the dowel pin is set at.

Gerry

Which is exactly why I'm doing it, assuming that there's no prob with the dowel pin location. I'll try PMing Jason and see what he knows. In the meantime, if any of you can shed any more light on this please let me know. So the question remains:

Will a TJ Ralliart cam go straight into a TF 3.0 without probs re the dowelling pin location? Anybody?


Heads are exactly the cam so they should fit straight in, im getting a set of 252 duration cams fitted Wednesday into my 3 ltr will let you know if there is any dramas

Cheers Brad

I remember a previous post.
I believe that there is a 6° difference between the 6G72 and 6G74 engines.

Try contacting RPW and asking for a stage 1 cam for your engine and ask what angle the dowel pin is set at.

Gerry
This what actually sparked off the question - RPW claim that theirs have multiple dowel pins. So they didn't (wouldn't???) answer my question.

Well i can say there is a difference i went to get my Tighe 252 duration cams fitted and there is a difference in the pin if you get tighe cams this can easily be fixed as they grind two slots for the dissy and drill two holes for the pin (1 for the 6G72 and 1 for the 6G74) so you just have to make sure it is in the correct one (mine wasn't my mechanic had to move it) was an easy fix in the end.

so how does it go then?

so those cams i got off luke wont be any good in my 3.0 till i upgrade to a 3.5 then?

so how does it go then?

Picking it up today was stillfinishing putting i back together and cleaning yesterday


so those cams i got off luke wont be any good in my 3.0 till i upgrade to a 3.5 then?Cant really answer that one but i think you could just change the dissy to 3.5 ltr you should be ok

See this is where it gets really confusing. Speaking to 98SPORT (ex Mits with extremely good contacts there in engineering and parts) today, and the Mits guys reckon that so long as you stay with 3.0 gears you're OK. Switch to 3.5 gears and you have a problem.

Tighe stage 1 252 duration cam idle in a 3ltr engine

CLICK ME (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=905837&postcount=1590)

Luv the sound mate,its even vibrating through my desk.

Tighe stage 1 252 duration cam idle in a 3ltr engine

CLICK ME (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=905837&postcount=1590)

Sounds like a really good popcorn machine :D

Tighe stage 1 252 duration cam idle in a 3ltr engine

CLICK ME (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=905837&postcount=1590)

Sounds nice. I'm very surprised there's such a distinct lump in idle with such a mild profile though:shock:

what rpm is your idle set at? Does the lumpyness go away if you increase idle rpm a rad?

The 3.0 cams and the 3.5 cams have different dowel position and also different dist position.

RPW found this out when they sent over some untested cams to the USA a few years ago and then had to replace them.

Get the Tighe cams, at lease if you have issues they will back you up unlike the "other place"

The 3.0 cams and the 3.5 cams have different dowel position and also different dist position.

RPW found this out when they sent over some untested cams to the USA a few years ago and then had to replace them.

Get the Tighe cams, at lease if you have issues they will back you up unlike the "other place"


With tighe cams mine were a multi fit cam so you just had to adjust it to your motor type for example the had two lines for the disy and two pin holes

Chisholm: the Car idles around the 700rpm mark a little more than i had it with the stock cam haven't played with it that much as im happy where it is set at. and it defiantly has a distinct lump.:)

BJ31OS' 3L with cams sounds sexy as in the flesh, the exhaust tip however lol

Despite the lumpiness the car drives effortlessly at low rpm and pulls hard and linear when booted. Without a tune and with 2 people in it, is was able to keep ahead of my 132.5kw AWD before we ran out of private road. That's a top result for a 4spd auto.

This what actually sparked off the question - RPW claim that theirs have multiple dowel pins. So they didn't (wouldn't???) answer my question.

Even after you spent $1000 on an inlet manifold with them :think: :doubt:

Even after you spent $1000 on an inlet manifold with them :think: :doubt: Not forgetting that I had to polish it properly too, after their lame effort at polishing....

Even after you spent $1000 on an inlet manifold with them :think: :doubt:

I spent well more than $2000 with him and was still a jackhole to me.

yeah, customer service, what's that?

all he wanted to do was sell me more stuff... :nuts:

i have heard some negative reports re tighe cams as well. I am willing to be proved wrong tho. Have you got any photos of the cams pre installation?

i have heard some negative reports re tighe cams as well. I am willing to be proved wrong tho. Have you got any photos of the cams pre installation?
I think they are talking about RPW?

i have heard some negative reports re tighe cams as well. I am willing to be proved wrong tho. Have you got any photos of the cams pre installation?


Yep here you go

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/1014/dscf6040yk4.jpg

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/5201/dscf6041jh5.jpg

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/9905/dscf6042ao7.jpg

I spent well more than $2000 with him and was still a jackhole to me.

yeah, customer service, what's that?

all he wanted to do was sell me more stuff... :nuts:

ive spend $2500 there and hes still an asshole.

looks like he misses out on a lot more.

i even thought about buying the cams on sale, but i thought id pay more elsewhere if i have to just so i dont have to talk to him

This stuff about RPW is bloody disappointing :doubt:

It's not like there are tons of Mitsubishi speed shops out there...

Yeah all we have now for the 380's anyway is TMR if they come good with their kits & the US Galant boys.

Yeah all we have now for the 380's anyway is TMR if they come good with their kits & the US Galant boys.

And possibly a replacement inlet manifold ;)

Ive spent nothing there and he sounds like an ass hole...

And possibly a replacement inlet manifold ;)
Well just don't talk about it .......... :P

And possibly a replacement inlet manifold ;)
Ever the consumate salesman mate lol


i have heard some negative reports re tighe cams as well. I am willing to be proved wrong tho. Have you got any photos of the cams pre installation?
Anybody else have thoughts on this? PM me. I do NOT want this turining into a bagging session (partic when others here have laid down good money, and we should respect their decisions and willingness to share their ideas), but I do want to listen to sensible facts before I choose what path to go down.

:rant:
Picking it up today was stillfinishing putting i back together and cleaning yesterday

Cant really answer that one but i think you could just change the dissy to 3.5 ltr you should be ok

WOW WOW WOW where did you get the idea that the dissy was different between the 3.0 and the 3.5 :rant: Let me assure you that is incorrect the dissy is the same from the first day the 3.0 ltr was made to the end of production of the 3.5 ltr..I know as i worked there in the factory on the assembly line suppling the parts.. Someone also mentioned that the cams were the same ,:rant: they are definitley different between 3.0 ltr and 3.5 . when we introduced the ralliart the cams were different and the heads also used hardened valve springs aswell....:cool: It is annoying when i read through some of these comments how some of them are just ramblings and full of miss information , if people dont know then they shouldnt comment on things that will cause confusion to the people who are generally asking for information about perticular problems..

Sorry for sounding like a smart **** but it is so annoying to read all the BS that i see ..
Hughy69

:rant:

WOW WOW WOW where did you get the idea that the dissy was different between the 3.0 and the 3.5 :rant: Let me assure you that is incorrect the dissy is the same from the first day the 3.0 ltr was made to the end of production of the 3.5 ltr..I know as i worked there in the factory on the assembly line suppling the parts.. Someone also mentioned that the cams were the same ,:rant: they are definitley different between 3.0 ltr and 3.5 . when we introduced the ralliart the cams were different and the heads also used hardened valve springs aswell....:cool: It is annoying when i read through some of these comments how some of them are just ramblings and full of miss information , if people dont know then they shouldnt comment on things that will cause confusion to the people who are generally asking for information about perticular problems..

Sorry for sounding like a smart **** but it is so annoying to read all the BS that i see ..
Hughy69

PAGE 2

Well i can say there is a difference i went to get my Tighe 252 duration cams fitted and there is a difference in the pin if you get tighe cams this can easily be fixed as they grind two slots for the dissy and drill two holes for the pin (1 for the 6G72 and 1 for the 6G74) so you just have to make sure it is in the correct one (mine wasn't my mechanic had to move it) was an easy fix in the end.

Did you read the whole thread or a couple of post if you DID read the whole thread you would have noticed we worked the problem out and it wasn't the dissy it was the pin in the end of the cam.


: Sorry for sounding like a smart **** but it is so annoying to read all the BS that i see ..
Hughy69

If its so annoying reading what other people write the go back in the whole you came out of
sorry to sound rude but you have made what 3 post this year and only 1 is useful to be honest and it aint the post in this thread.

:rant:

WOW WOW WOW where did you get the idea that the dissy was different between the 3.0 and the 3.5 :rant: Let me assure you that is incorrect the dissy is the same from the first day the 3.0 ltr was made to the end of production of the 3.5 ltr..I know as i worked there in the factory on the assembly line suppling the parts.. Someone also mentioned that the cams were the same ,:rant: they are definitley different between 3.0 ltr and 3.5 . when we introduced the ralliart the cams were different and the heads also used hardened valve springs aswell....:cool: It is annoying when i read through some of these comments how some of them are just ramblings and full of miss information , if people dont know then they shouldnt comment on things that will cause confusion to the people who are generally asking for information about perticular problems..

Sorry for sounding like a smart **** but it is so annoying to read all the BS that i see ..
Hughy69

I worked at MMAL as well and on the whole ralliart development program, so no BS from me. Plus ive built some pretty tough NA 3.5L over the past few years. I dont generally come on here answering peoples questions, people normally PM me and i give them advice and correct knowledge there.