This might sound trivial, but the way Mitsubishi has wired up the power windows in my 2003 TJ is driving me crazy. If I've parked the car and need to wait for someone, I often want to open the driver's window. In my older 2001 Exec, I simply used the manual winder - no problem. In the newer car with power windows, it's necessary to turn the ignition on to get them to work! This is just stupid.

Does anyone else share this frustration, and if so, can the wiring be easily modified to let the windows work with the ignition key in the "accessories" position?

This might sound trivial, but the way Mitsubishi has wired up the power windows in my 2003 TJ is driving me crazy. If I've parked the car and need to wait for someone, I often want to open the driver's window. In my older 2001 Exec, I simply used the manual winder - no problem. In the newer car with power windows, it's necessary to turn the ignition on to get them to work! This is just stupid.

Does anyone else share this frustration, and if so, can the wiring be easily modified to let the windows work with the ignition key in the "accessories" position?

my windows work in accessories:S?

dunno whats going on, because accesories is everything that you would have usually minus the engine - is it not?

my windows work in accessories:S?

dunno whats going on, because accesories is everything that you would have usually minus the engine - is it not?
Yeah it's always worked for me in ACC or at most the ON position (before cranking).

I'm curious about this myself, the way the old 3rd gens are wired up they only work in the on position, once its on acc you can't control the windows at all. I think what the OP (and I) want to know is is there a central power wire for the windows circuit that can be moved from ON power to ACC, or does it involve a lot of wiring changing to do?

in my KL, the electric windows DO work with the key n the Acc position, providing that its been to the Ign position.

ie drive car, park it turn back to Acc, the electric windows will still work for as long as i sit there - can open and close the door and it does not effect it.

if however i get in the car, and try to put the window down in the acc position, they will not move, have to flick over to ign then back again.

if i turn the car off and take the key out, i have about 30seconds to bring the windows up before they shut off - as long as i dont open the drivers door.


there is definately provision for it there in the system (in KL at least) so yours should also do the same i would think.

hope that helps.

Mine work as long as the car has been on and the drivers door hasnt been opened then closed.

I've just checked it out again. I have to turn to "On" to get the windows to work. If I then turn back to "Acc", I have the 30 seconds grace to continue using the windows. After that, I can clearly hear a relay clicking off, and the windows are dead.

Lugo's comment - "I think what the OP (and I) want to know is is there a central power wire for the windows circuit that can be moved from ON power to ACC, or does it involve a lot of wiring changing to do?" - is exactly what I want to know.

I would probably say to run new wiring for it. there is a relay in the engine compartment, just trying to think if you could alter the stock wiring or if you should run a new relay for it.
It'd just mean you hook the power up to constant pretty much, or wire it off an ACC feed

I've just checked it out again. I have to turn to "On" to get the windows to work. If I then turn back to "Acc", I have the 30 seconds grace to continue using the windows. After that, I can clearly hear a relay clicking off, and the windows are dead.

Lugo's comment - "I think what the OP (and I) want to know is is there a central power wire for the windows circuit that can be moved from ON power to ACC, or does it involve a lot of wiring changing to do?" - is exactly what I want to know.
You might have ETACS?
I would say find the trigger wire to the relay and change that

']I would probably say to run new wiring for it. there is a relay in the engine compartment, just trying to think if you could alter the stock wiring or if you should run a new relay for it.
It'd just mean you hook the power up to constant pretty much, or wire it off an ACC feed

This is pretty much what I guessed would be necessary, but I was just curious to see if any other folk had been ticked off enough about this issue to do something about it. Now, I need a 2003 TJ wiring diagram......

']You might have ETACS?

Um, what are ETACS?

some electronics crap in veradas has like a timer in it for the electric windows and stuff (not a very technical explanation but thats the gist of it, was in alot of 2nd gens)

Um, what are ETACS?


another word for a BEM - Body Electrics Module

controls everything electrical in/on the car basically.

I can see some sense in not having electrical power always available to the windows, because it may be possible for thieves to poke stiff wire past the window glass onto the switches, allowing easy entry. But if the key is still in the ACC position, they should work, it's as simple as that. Whoever decided that windows can only be moved when the ignition is on, apart from a 30 second delay, just made things too complicated.

If I sort it out, I'll pass it on.:confused:

Well it mustn't be that big of a deal considering power windows on all makes and models with exception to the most recent cars (where everything in the car is programmable) are all switched via the ON position and not via Accessories line. It's entirely normal.

Be thankful that we've even got a time delay on the provision of power for the windows. Many cars in the 90's 'era with power windows you would loose power to the windows as soon as you turn off the ignition.

Well, it's the way it works on every single car that has power windows that I've ever poked the switch on. Lucky that we get the 30s delay...

OK, if it's normal amongst all manufacturers to run power windows this way, so be it. However, there must be a reason for it - does anyone know what that is?

OK, if it's normal amongst all manufacturers to run power windows this way, so be it. However, there must be a reason for it - does anyone know what that is?


probably to stop people knocking the switches and putting the window down a lil without knowing and then walking away thinking thier car is secure and they come back to a missing car
or a wet interior

car manufacturers have to build to the lowest common denominator, try and prevent those who might be a little less clued up from stuffing up.

Or so you dont drain the battery flat!

']Or so you dont drain the battery flat!

yeah that too

but seriously, the battery would have to be pretty much dead for just the power windows to drain it to the point where car no longer starts.

iv sat for over an hour in my car, with the stereo going with reasonable volume, and been playing with the windows - car started fine. maybe if you put all 4 up and down constantly then you might run into troubles.
but even then, it would take a lot.

From a number of posts in this thread, it appears that Mitsubishi wired up power windows differently depending on actual year model and /or whether it was Magna or Verada. Whatever the case, I've replaced my power window relay with a simple jumper wire across the 12 volt supply. This means that the windows have power available permanently, not just when the BEM feels like it.

If someone can give me a convincing reason why this is a bad move, I'll replace the relay!

From a number of posts in this thread, it appears that Mitsubishi wired up power windows differently depending on actual year model and /or whether it was Magna or Verada. Whatever the case, I've replaced my power window relay with a simple jumper wire across the 12 volt supply. This means that the windows have power available permanently, not just when the BEM feels like it.

If someone can give me a convincing reason why this is a bad move, I'll replace the relay!

Sounds good, but with any constant power source it cause a slow leak in the electrical system and could "over a few weeks" drain the battery.

Sounds good, but with any constant power source it cause a slow leak in the electrical system and could "over a few weeks" drain the battery.

I actually checked this out. The only thing "on" when 12 volts are supplied to the windows (assuming you're not raising or lowering them) is the little LED light under the "Auto down" switch. This draws 3.6 mA, which would take over 11 days to consume even one amp hour. But it was worth checking.

Probably best to replace the "link" with a fuse. Just in case.

When I put my power windows in I wired them to constant with a fuse just next to the battery.

From a number of posts in this thread, it appears that Mitsubishi wired up power windows differently depending on actual year model and /or whether it was Magna or Verada. Whatever the case, I've replaced my power window relay with a simple jumper wire across the 12 volt supply. This means that the windows have power available permanently, not just when the BEM feels like it.

If someone can give me a convincing reason why this is a bad move, I'll replace the relay!


You never, ever, run constant power to anything.

As magna00 said, it causes a leak, yes we're talking miliamps here - however, it slowly drains the battery.

Apart from that, I assume (sorry if im wrong) that you didnt put a fuse in? Its a nice way to burn the entire car to the ground. All you need is to short that circuit and your wire will heat up to some 200 degree's, and burn everything around it.

If you want to be able to use power windows with just ACC on, I assume Mitsi have a trigger wire running to the window relay. You need to re-route this to an available ACC trigger, possibly tapping into something like the stereo trigger.

I'de run a new relay, triggered off an ACC relay. Power fed from the main power running into the fuse box (if there's a spare fuse slot) and then fuse the thing.

Otherwise, run a new relay, triggered off the ACC. Power tapped off the battery, fused within 20cm (inline AGU fuse, or normal inline fuse).

30 minutes of work if you know which wires to hunt down, to make sure your car doesnt become a crispy remnant of a Magna.

It would indeed be pretty silly to have an unfused permanent circuit. According to the "Power Windows" circuit diagram, the switch side of the relay is fused with a 40A fuse, plus a much bigger 120A fuse, before the battery terminal. All I've done is make sure the "switch" stays closed - the fuses between the windows and the battery are still just as effective.

I did think about hooking the coil side of the relay to an "Acc" terminal, but there is much more fooling around under the fuse / relay box to do that. I may eventually try it, but at the moment it would only take a minuit to restore the whole thing back to stock.

It's not hard to cut the wire, crimp both ends and then join both crimps onto a fuse.

Not looking at the wiring diagram, that 120amp fuse is more than likely the main fuse for the power before the fuse/relay box.

That, will do nothing for the relay, thats to protect that wire running into the fuse box.

As I said, I dont have access to the wiring diagram, however if you've just 'jumped' the +12V feed from the fuse box to the relay, that wire is not fused. Its that, or im not quite understanding how you've wired this....I like diagram's and pictures of words :-P

Not looking at the wiring diagram, that 120amp fuse is more than likely the main fuse for the power before the fuse/relay box.

That, will do nothing for the relay, thats to protect that wire running into the fuse box.

:-P

I agree about the 120A fuse, but there is another, 40A fuse before the relay that's obviously associated with the window circuits. I haven't bypassed this - as I said before, whatever fuses were there between the battery and the windows are still in the circuit.

Today I actually had to lower a window to allow my very elderly Mother to grab hold of the top of the door to steady herself getting into the car (I didn't want her to grab the glass!). It was much easier just hitting the switch and getting immediate action, rather than fooling around going to the other side of the car to turn the ignition on.

So you've run a constant +12V to a pin on the relay (either 85 or 87a?) that is normally the trigger from ignition?

So you've run a constant +12V to a pin on the relay (either 85 or 87a?) that is normally the trigger from ignition?

No, I've simply removed the relay and inserted a wire link to simulate the relay in its "switch closed" position. Now, with no relay coil to trigger, +12V is available, via the fuses we've already discussed, to the power windows. It's a very simple mod to overcome a minor complaint.

No, I've simply removed the relay and inserted a wire link to simulate the relay in its "switch closed" position. Now, with no relay coil to trigger, +12V is available, via the fuses we've already discussed, to the power windows. It's a very simple mod to overcome a minor complaint.


any chances of some pictures to see where in the engine bay this is..and a close up of the actual relay site to see how you have bridged the wires and which relay you pulled out..

..many thanks

any chances of some pictures to see where in the engine bay this is..and a close up of the actual relay site to see how you have bridged the wires and which relay you pulled out..

..many thanks

No problem - I'll take some pics ASAP.

The relay is located in the fuse / relay box just behind the battery. You can see the power window symbol (and other things) on the box cover. Lift the cover and it's easy enough to spot which relay to remove by comparing what you see with the symbols on the cover. The relay has two fairly large spades (these are the actual switch terminals) and two smaller spades (the coil terminals). I simply made up a very short length of 6mm wire with crimped spade terminals and inserted the spades into the slots normally occupied by the relay switch. Ignore the coil slots - they are irrelevant with this mod. Replace the cover and the job's done!

When I post the pictures, I hope the above is reasonably clear.

I like this idea, When i get home, i'm gonna run a constant to it instead of ignition feed. I'll be keeping the relay though, they are there for a reason

Ken L,

Thats fair enough - im just used to people doing absolutely bodgy electrical jobs and what you see sometimes scares you.

Atleast you've used a 6mm wire, and its still fused before the relay.....

So Ken_L's trick is safe to do as there is another fuse there??? This sounds cool!

So Ken_L's trick is safe to do as there is another fuse there??? This sounds cool!

I'de personally do it differently, only allowing windows to be used once on ACC, by changing when the relay switches on.

However, Ken_L's way is not going to burn the car down. It will drain the battery if you go away for a couple weeks though.

What Ken has basically done is take the relay out, connect the +12V feed (that is fused before the relay) and put a wire connecting the +12V feed to the +12V feed output where the relay sends the power.

This may cause issues for things like power window regulators, from memory early mazda RX7's ran the same set up, without relay - and they have a tendancy to burn the regulator out, friend of mine developed a plug in relay solution for those....

I also wouldnt recommend it due to the safety issue of how easy your car is to open.....but anyway.

Hmmmmm I think ill stick with mine.... its works on ON and works for 30 secs after turning the car off. I can click the remote start on my car quickly (its HOLD for ignition) and it will flash the ignition on and then off which gives me 30 seconds of window winding goodness :D

I'de personally do it differently, only allowing windows to be used once on ACC, by changing when the relay switches on.

However, Ken_L's way is not going to burn the car down. It will drain the battery if you go away for a couple weeks though.

What Ken has basically done is take the relay out, connect the +12V feed (that is fused before the relay) and put a wire connecting the +12V feed to the +12V feed output where the relay sends the power.

This may cause issues for things like power window regulators, from memory early mazda RX7's ran the same set up, without relay - and they have a tendancy to burn the regulator out, friend of mine developed a plug in relay solution for those....

I also wouldnt recommend it due to the safety issue of how easy your car is to open.....but anyway.


I actually agree that the ideal way is to trigger the relay coil from both the ACC and ON ignition switch positions. This removes my main complaint about the standard Mitsu set-up and makes it impossible for a thief to open the windows by pushing the buttons with a piece of wire. However, you can make the thief's work a bit more difficult by using the Windows Lock button - it's harder to operate than the open / close switches.

My quick and easy mod was really to see how often I actually use the windows with the ignition off. It's been only a week so far, and already it's been handy on a few occasions. There are times when you need to wind a rear window down to manoevre a large package onto the back seat, etc. If I think it's worth it, I'll look at doing the job more thoroughly.

Personally, I wouldn't have bothered with power windows - the car just had them (TJ AWD).

OK, here's some pictures of this trivial mod. As you can see, it's not rocket science!

Ahhhh i get it now, your just keeping it permantly switched on...



(right)

ken_L - It's different for everyone, but in summertime when your going for a cruise, you dont wanna be winding down 4 windows by hand, in the end i found a way to wind all 4 down while driving, so installing power windows was the best option - alot of ****ing around but a great learning curve

']Ahhhh i get it now, your just keeping it permantly switched on...



(right)

ken_L - It's different for everyone, but in summertime when your going for a cruise, you dont wanna be winding down 4 windows by hand, in the end i found a way to wind all 4 down while driving, so installing power windows was the best option - alot of ****ing around but a great learning curve

Yep, it was so simple it was hard to explain!

I hear you about hand winding windows, but you're right - it's different strokes etc. I find most of my driving around town is done with windows up to shut out noise / exhaust fumes and driving out of town is usually too fast for open windows. However, there have been rare occasions, when cruising slowly through a national park, that having all windows down is a good way to go.

Just did this mod to mine...fantastic.

.....5 minute job if that.....thanks for your info and the great writeup and photos

Michael...

Just did this mod to mine...fantastic.

.....5 minute job if that.....thanks for your info and the great writeup and photos

Michael...

You're welcome Michael. I was a bit embarrassed to post this mod because it is so easy, but I'm glad you found it usefull. At least, if we change our minds, it's just as easy to put it back to stock!

One thing i have noticed though,is that now that the circuit is always "on" that the little light in the window switch is now on all the time.

I noticed it tonight so i hope the battery wont run down....how much is this little globe going to draw and do you think its going to be a problem.....or should i just disconnect the globe in the switch....????

One thing i have noticed though,is that now that the circuit is always "on" that the little light in the window switch is now on all the time.

I noticed it tonight so i hope the battery wont run down....how much is this little globe going to draw and do you think its going to be a problem.....or should i just disconnect the globe in the switch....????

Don't worry, it's only a tiny LED. I measured the current draw as 3.6 mA. At that rate, it will take about 11 days to consume one amp hour. In other words, negligible - it will have no practical effect on your battery.

OK, I've had this wiring mod in place for two months and nothing odd has happened - no dead battery, no fires, no failed windows. It's been so useful, I'll leave it in place permanently.

OK, I've had this wiring mod in place for two months and nothing odd has happened - no dead battery, no fires, no failed windows. It's been so useful, I'll leave it in place permanently.

Just 3 things to watch out for

Children playing unrestrained in the car could conceiveably raise the window while putting their head out the window - normally the driver with the keys knows this cannot happen

Also windows left partly down for cool air on a hot day could now be closed, causing suffocation

Illegal entry could be made easier because now all that has to be done is to manipulate the window switches

Just 3 things to watch out for

Children playing unrestrained in the car could conceiveably raise the window while putting their head out the window - normally the driver with the keys knows this cannot happen

Also windows left partly down for cool air on a hot day could now be closed, causing suffocation

Illegal entry could be made easier because now all that has to be done is to manipulate the window switches

After reading this i thought about the illegal entry, but it would require someone knowing that the windows are 'always on' however, the led might give it away, maybe not.

Had not considered the risk to children, you will look like an ass on currant affairs if this was to kill a kid!

After reading this i thought about the illegal entry, but it would require someone knowing that the windows are 'always on' however, the led might give it away, maybe not.

Had not considered the risk to children, you will look like an ass on currant affairs if this was to kill a kid!

maybe the kid who touches the button putting it up will also know pressing it again just a tad down will make it go down, kids are fidgety, they will learn how these things work, up down up down up down up down etc

Yes, I've considered the thief possibility, but if they're that desperate, they can simply break the glass. Frankly, if you are so dextrous that you could operate the window switches using a piece of wire poked past the glass / door seal area, you deserve something!
I can also up the ante by using the "windows lock" button.

With respect to kids, I believe that those young enough to get into trouble playing with windows shouldn't be left in a car unsupervised. Full Stop.

... I can also up the ante by using the "windows lock" button.

With respect to kids, I believe that those young enough to get into trouble playing with windows shouldn't be left in a car unsupervised. Full Stop.

The window lock button can also be applied to the kiddies i suppose .. touche

The window lock button can also be applied to the kiddies i suppose .. touche


I wouldn't mind betting that's exactly why Mitsubishi fitted the lock button.

I don't have any kids in that age bracket so it's not an issue for me - my daughter is now 18 and drives her own car. :)

I'm wondering if there is a way to make the windows only operate when the car is unlocked. I reckon a latching relay would do the job. Feed the signal that unlocks the doors into the 'make' side of the relay, then feed the lock signal into the 'break' side of the relay. This way the windows would only operate when the car is unlocked and there would be no power draw when it is locked.

The only other thing I can think of is if there is something that provides 12v/earth when the car open, that could then feed the existing relay. Anyone got any idea/thoughts?

The only other thing I can think of is if there is something that provides 12v/earth when the car open, that could then feed the existing relay. Anyone got any idea/thoughts?
Interior lights? TH on turns the interior lights on when you unlock the car, possibly use that?