Ok firstly I know this is the lower end of subs, but a chance has come to upgrade my Response 12" Sub...
I only have about $250 though. Do I simply buy the latest Response 12" Sub or is there something better for the same price? Anyone got some second hand gear?
I have a Response 800W mono and the sub box designed by Bigs which is about 1 cubic foot.

Cheers
Pete

I have noticed on eBay (won't post the links so I don't get in trouble!) that there are a few Alpine, Hertz, Rockford Fosgate, under the $300 mark... but are they any good or just dodgey guys saying RRP$1,000,000 but I sell for $0.02!! They say they are based in Aus.

I found on FHRX's specials page:

Vibe BlackairII+ 12" $255
DD 512 $249

Anybody had good/bad experiences with them? The DD one sounds like it needs a slightly bigger box though...

go DD



glad i could be of help

Mobile electronics australia forums trading section. I got a nice Alpine swr-1221d off there for $140 without box. Has some cosmetic cone damage but i'll just get a grille for it.

go DD

definately goto MEA and buy something second hand

lol do people actually realise how bad the DD's sound? Yes they are loud but it that he wants?

Vibe would be great, the old blackairs sounded good enough, Treo also have an entry level but not all of these will be matched to your amp... unless you add another later. :D

lol do people actually realise how bad the DD's sound? Yes they are loud but it that he wants?

Vibe would be great, the old blackairs sounded good enough, Treo also have an entry level but not all of these will be matched to your amp... unless you add another later. :D

Yeah I looked at the DD but they seemed more aimed for SPL and found the box size on DD's website and it needs a bigger box than what I have. The more expensive ones may be good, but reviews on the web seemed to be more focused on volume rather than quality.

Matched to my amp... what do you mean?

Your amp makes it maximum power @ 1ohm. This would mean you should look at a sub that can present at least a 2ohm load ( i.e. DVC 4ohm or DVC 2ohm for a 1ohm load ) to make the amp work a bit :D

A 12inch DD needs about 1.75cuft ported box in a DD512.

Oz Audio ( in the Vector ) is another who makes a nice woofer that works in small enclosures. IDQ is good but a bit more $$$. You have some decent components from memory, what up front?

You have some decent components from memory, what up front?
Morel Pulse 6 Splits as per his profile...

lol do people actually realise how bad the DD's sound? Yes they are loud but it that he wants?

Vibe would be great, the old blackairs sounded good enough, Treo also have an entry level but not all of these will be matched to your amp... unless you add another later. :D

they sound far from bad. they just have a tendancy of ending up in some farty SPL box. I've judged plenty of cars with DD subs and generally they tend to end up in the mid to higher level of competition.

This said, I am not a fan of DD. I am merely defending the distorted view that they sound bad because they are usually used with SPL intentions.

dd 512 should be able to get one for $229 easy enough or look at a polk momo 12" should be able to get one for $199

they sound far from bad. they just have a tendancy of ending up in some farty SPL box. I've judged plenty of cars with DD subs and generally they tend to end up in the mid to higher level of competition.

This said, I am not a fan of DD. I am merely defending the distorted view that they sound bad because they are usually used with SPL intentions.


you forgot to add they sound awesome when playing music at 155db in a car with the doors open lol lol lol

Your amp makes it maximum power @ 1ohm. This would mean you should look at a sub that can present at least a 2ohm load ( i.e. DVC 4ohm or DVC 2ohm for a 1ohm load ) to make the amp work a bit :D

A 12inch DD needs about 1.75cuft ported box in a DD512.

Oz Audio ( in the Vector ) is another who makes a nice woofer that works in small enclosures. IDQ is good but a bit more $$$. You have some decent components from memory, what up front?

Yeah as stated I have Morel Pulse 6 splits for the fronts.

Yeah but if the sub sounds great and it only needs 400Wrms I am happy, I am not after ear splitting bass (well I am but not allowed with the wife in the front seat 99% of the time :P) more after a good quality sound. So a 4ohm load is fine.

Edit: Just tried to find the specs on the mono block... its 820Wrms @ 1ohm and 400Wrms @ 4 ohm.

they sound far from bad. they just have a tendancy of ending up in some farty SPL box. I've judged plenty of cars with DD subs and generally they tend to end up in the mid to higher level of competition.

This said, I am not a fan of DD. I am merely defending the distorted view that they sound bad because they are usually used with SPL intentions.

Sorry my carparison is made on DD subs used for music ( not SPL ) against much better SQ woofers for the money. One things though, if you kill a DD you must be insaine, especailly considering the entry level will take over 750WRMS :shock: We all know that for SQ scores the bass component is worth almost nothing overall. :D

Treo, Oz Vector, Vibe, Hertz, etc all worth a listen. Box size could be a problem though.

you forgot to add they sound awesome when playing music at 155db in a car with the doors open lol lol lol

Dude that is crazy :badgrin:

cant argue against opinion. but im my opinion however i think in a blind test you wouldnt pick the DD.

cant argue against opinion. but im my opinion however i think in a blind test you wouldnt pick the DD.

Ummm yeah you would... you would hear the shattering of the glass as it blows out :bowrofl:

At the end of the day the best thing I can suggest is to go out and listen to as many woofies as you can. This is not possible to do for everyone to do but if you get the chance, have a good listen. I can only vouch for about 50 woofers and I honest forget how some of them sounded, I just have my favourites.

Must admit the DD 91xx series sounds very nice in the right box.

So far the Vibe Blackair 12" is looking good. Its dual 2ohm VC so will be able to make good use of the amp running it at 1 ohm. If I run it in 4 ohm, the amp won't quite be able to supply the full 550Wrms that the sub is specced for but I don't run it that super loud so don't think that is an issue. Have just sent them an email asking about recommended sealed enclosure volumes.

I can't get to test a most of these in shops, so am just going to have to rely on advice and reviews....

hmmm just noticed the Crossfire BMF1228 12" 4 ohm DVC... recommended 1.0 cu. ft. sealed enclosure and its on special. Anyone had experience with these before?

Ok, I have come up with a list (from FRHX) and am trying to narrow it down. I have also managed to up the budget to $300.

Vibe Blackair II
Boston G212-4 or G212-44
Image Dynamics ID12D2 V.3 or ID12D4 v.3
Rockford Fosgate P3D212
Hertz HX300 MAYBE if I can stretch the budget a bit..

Who has any of the above or can definately say "DON'T" to any of them? I am hunting around trying to find places that have then on display...

I managed to pick up a TS-W3001D4 for $270 off ebay. Pumps out 1000w RMS and 3000w peak. You will need a very good amp to power it though.

I managed to pick up a TS-W3001D4 for $270 off ebay. Pumps out 1000w RMS and 3000w peak. You will need a very good amp to power it though.

Feck not bad.
They run at 4ohm though so judging by that you WILL need a good amp. My response amp does 1000W but only @ 1ohm

yeah my Response Amp wouldn't cope with that. Its 820W @ 1ohm and 400W at 4 ohm.

yeah my Response Amp wouldn't cope with that. Its 820W @ 1ohm and 400W at 4 ohm.
Well it says 820W But I've read articles on MEA showing it makes well over 1000W @ 1ohm.

Vibe Blackair II - I feel in love with the series one Space woofers and these I have only heard again in a series I blackair in a 10. The 10 was warm but lacked low end extension but it was a different size so not sure about the new ones.

Crossfire BMF1228 - Auditioned the XT which is it's bit brother, didn't like it at all, not to say this is a bad woofer though.

Boston G212-4 or G212-44 - Could be a perfect sub for you considering your box size of 1cuft. I ran the bigger G5 in a 1.15 cuft box for years and eariler a Boston Pro 12.5lf in a 0.95cuft sealed with much success.

Image Dynamics ID12D2 V.3 or ID12D4 v.3 - Hmmm the IDQ are a supurb woofer and the IDMAX is pretty dam good to, never played with these though.

Polk Audio DB124 or DB124DVC - No idea, never heard a Polk woofer except on a wall.. that doesn't tell you much.

Hertz HX300 - This will be another woofer that will work well in the small enclosure, the old ones where sturdy and produced a nice sound, the new cones are similar to the Mille series.. we all know what that will mean.

TS-W3001D4 - That will happily run off 600WRMS ( your 2 ohm power ), just because Sony / Pioneer / Kenwood say that they are 1000000WRMS wont mean that is correct. The Boston G5 for example is rated at 450WRMS yet Boston recommend hooking it up to their GT-28 for 1350WRMS.... Pioneers usually need big sealed boxs to make them sound good ( again recommended is usually 28-50litres but they sound rubish in the smaller boxes ).

Oz Audio Vector - I left the Boston woofers for the bigger Oz Audio ME and have not regretted it since. I can't comment on the vector but the ME is sublime, the punch of my old 12.5lf combined with the rumble of the G5. They do need a 1.25cuft sealed so you would have to fill the box with darcon and reverse mount it.

All the woofers above are more than capable, you definately need to try and listen to some though before making up your mind or have to chat to some experts.... :D

why not go the polk MM2124 ? 400wrms retail is $299, street price is $199 its the next level up from the db series

Well its been narrowed down to the following:

Vibe Blackair II
Boston G212-44
Image Dynamics ID12D2 V.3 or ID12D4 v.3

The Hertz HX300 is one of the fabourites but just out of the budget :(

The Vibe and Bostson are probably the winning 2 right now, but the Vibe's recommended box size is 1.5 cu. ft.
Although this is what a techo at Vibe said to an email I sent to him:
"The recommended air space for this is 1.5 cu.ft. but will work fine in the 1 cu.ft. that you have. In making the enclosure smaller this will make the speakers tighter and more punchy and wont drop as low as it would in a larger enclosure."

I have rung around so many places in Adelaide and 99.9% of them have never heard of half the brands and just try to push Pioneer or Alpine, neither of which I am really interested in. So I haven't got the faintet chance of listening to any of them.

No one in Adelaide happens to have one of the above in their car?

Cheers
Pete

hmmm just found a few JL 12W3v2-D2 subs on eBay... anyone know what these are like?

Well its been narrowed down to the following:

Vibe Blackair II
Boston G212-44
Image Dynamics ID12D2 V.3 or ID12D4 v.3

The Hertz HX300 is one of the fabourites but just out of the budget :(

The Vibe and Bostson are probably the winning 2 right now, but the Vibe's recommended box size is 1.5 cu. ft.
Although this is what a techo at Vibe said to an email I sent to him:
"The recommended air space for this is 1.5 cu.ft. but will work fine in the 1 cu.ft. that you have. In making the enclosure smaller this will make the speakers tighter and more punchy and wont drop as low as it would in a larger enclosure."

I have rung around so many places in Adelaide and 99.9% of them have never heard of half the brands and just try to push Pioneer or Alpine, neither of which I am really interested in. So I haven't got the faintet chance of listening to any of them.

No one in Adelaide happens to have one of the above in their car?

Cheers
Pete
i have the Vibe Blackair II in bigs sub box in my car its being under powered at the moment but still has alot of punch, you wont be dissapointed if you purchase one... to bad im in NSW...

Ok its a toss up between the Vibe Blackair and the Boston G212...

Talking to Marty, the Vibe is more musical and sounds nicer, but the Boston has more punch.

Damn I hate these decisions :(

Well ended up going the Vibe Blackair on the advice of Marty from FHRX. He suggested the Boston was a lot more 'punchy' but the Vibe was more musical and tight. It was also about $100 cheaper :P So I am going to look at getting my amps mounted nicely and the cabling tidied up.

Yeah, I was hoping you would go that way. Let us know how it goes what you get it :D

Im excited... :P Anyway, I will post up some photos of it installed in my ride thread, but one last question...

The sub is rated at 550Wrms... has 2 ohm DVC which means it can be run at 1 ohm or 4 ohms
My amps power (rms) at those impedances are 820W (1 ohm) and 400W (4 ohm).

Which would I be better running it at? Bear in mind that 99.9% of the time it is for normal listening levels with the occasional pump.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of the low or high impedances?

I have heard the following but stand to be corrected:
Lower impedances (1 ohm) means the amp runs much hotter.
Lower impedances also means the response of the amp isn't quite as good. i.e. can be run louder using more power but looses some of the 'tightness'.

Lower impedances (1 ohm) means the amp runs much hotter.

Yeah if you where to run at 5km/h ( 4ohm ) then run at 10km/h ( 2ohm ) and then up the ante to 20km/h ( 1ohm ) of course you will get hotter quicker the faster you go as you will work a lot harder. Even Class D amps start to loose efficiency at lower impedences and because they draw more current to make the power, more of that potential power is lost in heat as well.



Lower impedances also means the response of the amp isn't quite as good. i.e. can be run louder using more power but looses some of the 'tightness'.

Yeah has an impact on the Damping factor ( the amps ability to control the speaker cone ), eek found that out with his DD. Remember that to increase the volume by 3db, you roughly need to double the volume, for normal music it's not that important. To loose about 3db potential, running at 4ohm will be enough and it will save your cars charging system as well :D

Hey Poita,

I doubt you will be disappointed with your purchase, I bought a Vibe BlackAir II of FHRX a while ago and loved it, Marty is a champ, its a pretty tight sounding sub with good punch, and good sound quality for the money.

I ran it out of a Sealed Box the size Vibe recommends (1.5cu.ft) running it off a mates Audison Lrx 2.500 amplifier (puts out 660w RMS @ 4 ohm bridged), it was plenty loud :).The Vibe looks pretty cool as well.

I had on my eye set on a Vibe sub ever since I listened to a BlackAir.

Aspec