Hey there, i drive a 96 TE, the cars got 210 000ks on it, and imi looking at having a bit of fun with buying a engin to rebuild and hot up a bit to chuck into it. I have just had my gearbox (auto) replaced with a later modle one (i think out of a TJ) and it has had more cluch plates put into it, and a few other bits and peaces, and it actully performs a bit better to what it ever use to be, so im not looking at converting to manual any more after spending 2 grand on that, so first question, will the 3.5l engin bolt up to that gearbox? will i have any problems with that?
Its a given that the 3.5l engin is alot faster than the 3l, but has any one tried boring out the 3l engin? because i am thinking u can do a 3.5l conversion, but i dont know how it will act with the 3l ECU, and the gearbox. so i was thinking, i might buy my self a 3l engin, bore it out, and retain the shorter stroke, and work that up a bit, and then the actul engin swap will be easier once again as well.
is this a bad idea? any thorts on this?

PM missks, she's got a brand new 3.5 6G74 engine for sale.

people have bored out the 3.0L, someone hear has a 3.2L not sure who

any one know how far u can bore it out 2? as in its max?

As the age old saying goes "there aint replacement for displacement".

Seeing as you wanna keep the auto you want something with good low/midrange torque to help get ya moving along and that is where a 3.5L has it all over a 3.0L, sure you can work the hell out of a 3.0L (and make good power) but it will still be down on bottom end torque over a 3.5L with the same mods.

As for boring our engines out.... be very careful as bore wall thickness is not all that great and every block can vary on bore wall thickness. The maximum i safely bore my magna V6 engines is 0.5mm or first oversize, that way you keep as much integrity in the bores as possible especially if you plan to rev it hard or force induct it.

any one know how far u can bore it out 2? as in its max?

Off the shelf pistons got to 1mm oversize but you can get custom pistons made to any bore size you want BUT as i said before be aware of the bore wall thickness of the block once its been bored past 1mm (which is MMAL's maximum recommended oversize).

kool thanks for that, if i did go 1mil bore what displacment would i be looking at? i was also told that u can bore these out to 3.5l is that right? if that was the case would i be able to just get the pistons out of a 3.5l engin and use them?
i am looking at keeping the engin a sweet rev box, thats why i am thinking of using the 3l engin and keeping the shorter stroke, but boring it for some more power. that soud right lol

kool thanks for that, if i did go 1mil bore what displacment would i be looking at? i was also told that u can bore these out to 3.5l is that right? if that was the case would i be able to just get the pistons out of a 3.5l engin and use them?
i am looking at keeping the engin a sweet rev box, thats why i am thinking of using the 3l engin and keeping the shorter stroke, but boring it for some more power. that soud right lol

To bore a 3.0L out to 3.5L you'd end up with no bores left. Remember the 3.5L has a longer stroke as well as a bigger bore to take the capacity to 3.5L, also the 3.5 has a much stronger crank and 4bolt mains compared to the 3.0, the weakest part in the 3.5's bottem end is the rod bolts (and the stock pistons once forced induction is added)

Oh and a nicely worked NA 3.5L still revs very well, hell mine revs to 7900 very nicely and easily.

hmmm that is a fair point, and i like th sound of it reving out to 7900 rpm, well how does this sound then, a 3l bored to 3.2 - 3.4 l, stage 2 or maby 3 cams (thinking aloud, tell me what ya think about stage 3 cams) and higher comp pistons, 10.1 ratio im thinking. also among that head work, intake manifold and so on so forth. does your engin still have alot of pull at that hi rpm? or does power drop off earlier?

hmmm that is a fair point, and i like th sound of it reving out to 7900 rpm, well how does this sound then, a 3l bored to 3.2 - 3.4 l, stage 2 or maby 3 cams (thinking aloud, tell me what ya think about stage 3 cams) and higher comp pistons, 10.1 ratio im thinking. also among that head work, intake manifold and so on so forth. does your engin still have alot of pull at that hi rpm? or does power drop off earlier?

That combo you proposed is alot of work for a 3.0 engine that with roughly half the work a 3.5 will be better. Spending all that money making a 3.0L into a 3.2/3.4 would be better off spent on a 3.5L as all you will need is fit ARP rod bolts and a set of ACL 10.1 pistons (DOHC pajero pistons) and in the process the 3.5 gives you a much stronger crank/rods and bottom end (4 bolt mains).

For "stage 3" cams to work properly you want at least 10.0-11:1 compression, with a good amount of head work. All that will not make for a very streetable car as you are stuck with a powersapping auto trans, IF it was a manual trans car it would be ok.
Autos need good lowdown torque and once you start working the motor NA it moves the power/torque up the rev range. Ideally a supercharger (sprintex or raptor kit) would be spot on for a 3.0L auto street car as it will boost overall power but also add a big chunk of low/midrange torque which a heavily modded NA 3.0 could only dream of achieving.

Oh and my car makes peak power at 7100rpm (when it has the correct cams in it)

Seeing as you wanna keep the auto you want something with good low/midrange torque to help get ya moving along and that is where a 3.5L has it all over a 3.0L, sure you can work the hell out of a 3.0L (and make good power) but it will still be down on bottom end torque over a 3.5L with the same mods.

And that's the real key to whether you go 3.5 or not. If you live in the country (or pretend country, like me in Canberra lol ), a 3.5 with the extra torque is worth squat. When you are running on open roads or urban traffic with little stop start (like Canberra), then a 3.0 is just fine and you'll appreciate its sweet revving nature (which I remeber Wheels endlessly raving about when they used to talk about it in the same breath as the 3.5). But under stop/start driving conditions, where you wanna get away quickly and cleany and punch holes through traffic time and time again, then torque and 3.5 conversion is your friend. My 2cents worth :)

hmmm good point, well after looking at lenda's thread and how he gained power still down low with stage two cams, maby ill look at that then, what power gains would i be looking at with stage 1 cams? more down low than high? i want to still have a good hi end, because even tho the car is lacking down low once its up and singing i shouldnt have a problem even if ive got nothing down low?
so over all go for the 3.5l engin?

also does any one know how a 3l bored out would perform against the 3.5l?

ok so ive been looking for most of the day to find out if the 3.5l engin will fit to the 3l engin auto box with no problems, but havnt been able to find any thing yet. also from what i can see it is easy enough but there are a cupple of things i need to look out for if i did get a 3.5l engin such as CV joints, drive shafts and il have to use the 3l manifold
so 2 questions
1. will the 3.5l engin bolt up ok to the 3l auto box,
and
2. what other things need to be changed for the 3.5l engin to be put in

thanks for all guys, you've been a great help

ok so ive been looking for most of the day to find out if the 3.5l engin will fit to the 3l engin auto box with no problems, but havnt been able to find any thing yet. also from what i can see it is easy enough but there are a cupple of things i need to look out for if i did get a 3.5l engin such as CV joints, drive shafts and il have to use the 3l manifold
so 2 questions
1. will the 3.5l engin bolt up ok to the 3l auto box,
and
2. what other things need to be changed for the 3.5l engin to be put in

thanks for all guys, you've been a great help

yes the 3.0l box bolts up to the 3.5 no issues, and just require the 3.5l ecu i believe, the looms are the same. Also the engine pipe is different so need to switch it as well.

And take what lendas power figure with a grain of salt, it is at the hubs not wheels, so naturally the power figure is higher then what he is putting through the front wheels.

kool well thanks guys for all your help, ive decided tho to get a 3l egein and bore it out a lil and work that a bit and then chuck it into the car, do somthing a lil dirrent. so one last question, i should be able to chuck in the projero pistons into is shouldnt i? because from what ive seen the bore is only 1.9 diffrent? or is this a bad idea?

kool well thanks guys for all your help, ive decided tho to get a 3l egein and bore it out a lil and work that a bit and then chuck it into the car, do somthing a lil dirrent. so one last question, i should be able to chuck in the projero pistons into is shouldnt i? because from what ive seen the bore is only 1.9 diffrent? or is this a bad idea?

Youd be a brave boy if you wanna bore the 3L block 1.9mm. The bore wall thickness aint all that thick and by taking 1.9mm out of it will leave it fairly weak, your call but it could split open during a big rev then you would have just wasted $$$$ on a rebuild for nothing.

hmmm u make a good point. well i guess its more reading and looking around then, ill let u all know what decission i make, it will proble be by the end of november that i buy this engine.

thanks for all your help guys, ill keep all everything said in the back of my mind while choosing.

a 3.5 with the extra torque is worth squat. When you are running on open roads or urban traffic with little stop start (like Canberra), then a 3.0 is just fine and you'll appreciate its sweet revving nature (which I remeber Wheels endlessly raving about when they used to talk about it in the same breath as the 3.5). But under stop/start driving conditions, where you wanna get away quickly and cleany and punch holes through traffic time and time again, then torque and 3.5 conversion is your friend. My 2cents worth :)

I agree stock vs stock the 3L has a more fun "revvy" character if that's what you like, but soon as we are talking a buildup, IMO the 3.5 just completely ****s over the 3L. As JasonsVRX has proven, even with a longer stroker, the 3.5L has no problem revving sky-high with the appropriate cam profile etc.

Even with the factory cams, I now make peak power at 6,000rpm with the Sprintex, and it revs cleanly and effortlessly to cut-out (6800rpm?).

Also once we are talking NA with some hefty cams, the extra displacement and stroke makes a huge difference in driveability, while still making similar or more power up top due to the extra displacement.

IMO there's just no reason pick the 3L over the 3.5L. Having said that, it would be interesting to see somene do a serious NA build with a 3L motor.

Im more trying to see what is involved with putting the 3.5l engin into my car. Because i have just had my gearbox rebuilt and worked, i dont want to have any troubles with the 3.5l bolting up to it or if the box will have any trouble handeling it. That been said i dont think it should and everyone else saying it bolts up fine, so my next problem is i dont want to have to change any thing else like wire looms or any thing, i just want it to be a nice and easy in and out swap, so once i can be sure that the 3.5l will go in with no modifacations to any thing else. I will be most likly doing a 3l. Because as you said Chisholm, i would like to see a 3l engine build and i wouldnt mind doing somthing diffrent, but at the same time i dont want to be dissapointed in what i end up with and find that i could have ended up with something better if i used the 3.5l engine. Once again thanks for all, ill be keeping you all up to date with my progress and what i decide to do.

Im more trying to see what is involved with putting the 3.5l engin into my car. Because i have just had my gearbox rebuilt and worked, i dont want to have any troubles with the 3.5l bolting up to it or if the box will have any trouble handeling it. That been said i dont think it should and everyone else saying it bolts up fine, so my next problem is i dont want to have to change any thing else like wire looms or any thing, i just want it to be a nice and easy in and out swap, so once i can be sure that the 3.5l will go in with no modifacations to any thing else. I will be most likly doing a 3l. Because as you said Chisholm, i would like to see a 3l engine build and i wouldnt mind doing somthing diffrent, but at the same time i dont want to be dissapointed in what i end up with and find that i could have ended up with something better if i used the 3.5l engine. Once again thanks for all, ill be keeping you all up to date with my progress and what i decide to do.

I dont know if you posted it before, but is that box an auto or manual?

also putting 3.5 into a 3 is straight forward, just need ECU, and the engine pipe i believe

its a auto, i know its not ideal for performance, but 2 grand was spent on it, so im keeping it. so for the time been with it the guy who built it for me is going to look at uping the pressure in the solinoids, and i might at some point (maby, but there may be no point in doing this) a hi stall torque converter, maby at around 1500 to 2000 rpm stall, but that may not be a great idea because i need the car for every day driving and that small bost in the stall wont give me that great increase i think off the line launch, then again what do some of you guys think?

also putting 3.5 into a 3 is straight forward, just need ECU, and the engine pipe i believe

ive heard that u dont even need to change the ECU, someone said that the a 3L auto ran a 3.5L manual no problems

its a auto, i know its not ideal for performance, but 2 grand was spent on it, so im keeping it. so for the time been with it the guy who built it for me is going to look at uping the pressure in the solinoids, and i might at some point (maby, but there may be no point in doing this) a hi stall torque converter, maby at around 1500 to 2000 rpm stall, but that may not be a great idea because i need the car for every day driving and that small bost in the stall wont give me that great increase i think off the line launch, then again what do some of you guys think?

My car seems to have a 2500 stall converter...

ie: brakes + throttle, that's where it sits about.

My car seems to have a 2500 stall converter...

ie: brakes + throttle, that's where it sits about.

haha yeh ive tried that, i find tho if you just plant your foot to the floor when doing that you can bog the car down low and then it takes ages for it to get going, hmm might just stick to that method then lol

also i will be getting a uni chip for the car as well so the ecu i dont think is the biggest worry any more, just the wiring loom and any other things that i might have to change. remember reading that someone used a 3l intake manifold so he could plug in the loom or somthing like that, any one got any info on that???

Having said that, it would be interesting to see somene do a serious NA build with a 3L motor.
Keep watching my car build then...

ok so i was reading another thread on hear about a engine conversion, and it was saying that the guy needed to change his driveshafts? you would only need to change it if you where doing a gearbox change over right? bit confused as to what will be needed other than part of the zost and a pigyback ECU for the conversion. because im keeping my current gearbox

That combo you proposed is alot of work for a 3.0 engine that with roughly half the work a 3.5 will be better. Spending all that money making a 3.0L into a 3.2/3.4 would be better off spent on a 3.5L as all you will need is fit ARP rod bolts and a set of ACL 10.1 pistons (DOHC pajero pistons) and in the process the 3.5 gives you a much stronger crank/rods and bottom end (4 bolt mains).

For "stage 3" cams to work properly you want at least 10.0-11:1 compression, with a good amount of head work. All that will not make for a very streetable car as you are stuck with a powersapping auto trans, IF it was a manual trans car it would be ok.
Autos need good lowdown torque and once you start working the motor NA it moves the power/torque up the rev range. Ideally a supercharger (sprintex or raptor kit) would be spot on for a 3.0L auto street car as it will boost overall power but also add a big chunk of low/midrange torque which a heavily modded NA 3.0 could only dream of achieving.

Oh and my car makes peak power at 7100rpm (when it has the correct cams in it)

just wondering with this, say if i put stage 3 cams into a 3l, and did the good headwork and up'd the comp, would i lose alot of downlow power? what about in a 3.5l engin? i dont really care about down low power as much any more.

My goal is to build up top with out sacraficing downlow as i dont have a problem with driveability with my 3l atm, because ive got a theory, or idea more so, if i build downlow its gonna case more lose of traction, and also not see as much power up top, and i get alot of loss of traction even now, and im running 17 x 7 rims with 235/45 soft compound tyres.
so im thinking of more building midrage and hi end power, that way i get a good take off, not as much wheelspin hopfully, and then once its really going it shouldnt have a problem keeping up with some of you guys or some holdens and fords.

good or bad idea? keen of trying this but like to get advise 1st. the car im thinking as well will be used as a daily car, but also maby use it on the track ocasionaly, also thinking of putting nos on it

just wondering with this, say if i put stage 3 cams into a 3l, and did the good headwork and up'd the comp, would i lose alot of downlow power? what about in a 3.5l engin? i dont really care about down low power as much any more.

My goal is to build up top with out sacraficing downlow as i dont have a problem with driveability with my 3l atm, because ive got a theory, or idea more so, if i build downlow its gonna case more lose of traction, and also not see as much power up top, and i get alot of loss of traction even now, and im running 17 x 7 rims with 235/45 soft compound tyres.
so im thinking of more building midrage and hi end power, that way i get a good take off, not as much wheelspin hopfully, and then once its really going it shouldnt have a problem keeping up with some of you guys or some holdens and fords.

good or bad idea? keen of trying this but like to get advise 1st. the car im thinking as well will be used as a daily car, but also maby use it on the track ocasionaly, also thinking of putting nos on it

You condradicted yourself in your post btw, but with putting such a large cam in in you will lose bottom end due to all the power coming ontap from 3.5k+ rpm, short of bolting on some kind of FI, you will always lose out on bottom end going for a serious NA build, in all honesty if you are tracking the car i wouldnt go such a big cam personally, id look at a stage 2 cam, with the usual cleaning of around the valves, polishing of the inlets, tougher valve springs and 10.1 pistons with ARP bolts and the whole lot balanced as one. Should give you a tough daily driver that wont be a pig to drive in day to day and also be making solid power.

Also as you said in a previous post by keeping with the auto you do limit yourself what cam you can put in to keep it a DD and still be able to drive it with it actually still being able to idle.

EDIT: if you are struggling with grip from a near stock 3l Auto id suggest learning how to control it first before chasing the power numbers. It can lead to very very bad things.

its not that i strugle with the grip or that i cant control it, im just more concered on if i bost power down low will it be harder to control, and will it have a affect on the 1/4 mile as a example. thanks for the reply though, im deffently coming close to finalising my plan and putting it in the works

its not that i strugle with the grip or that i cant control it, im just more concered on if i bost power down low will it be harder to control, and will it have a affect on the 1/4 mile as a example. thanks for the reply though, im deffently coming close to finalising my plan and putting it in the works

Yeah getting grip for 1/4 mile is easy enough, Slicks and perfecting your launch will be benefitical here.

My car seems to have a 2500 stall converter...

ie: brakes + throttle, that's where it sits about.

Thres are 2 different types of "stall speed" one is foot brake stall and the other is flash stall, (this is when you mash the go pedal WOT and the converter will flash to a briefly higher rpm than normal stall speeds)

Testing true stall speeds are hard as you cannot keep the car stationary as it will try to spin the tyres long before it bogs down and "stalls" as per its name,thus fudging the figure

Steve

I've done the 3.0-3.5 conversion. It's easy enough, and the mid range torque is very obvious between the two. Chalk n cheese. Seriously if you shop around you can pick up a decent 3.5 for about $400!!

If you're planning on a rebuild for power, then just start with the 3.5. Not too take away anything form the 3.0, but a built 3.5 will rev just as easily and make more power/torque. while they do have a longer stroke, they aren't a stroker by any means. :cool: