Hi, new member joining in hope that there's some experienced folk out there who have experienced 2-3 upshift problems with the F4A51 trans in the Magna. Mine is the 2005 TW series.

Fault symptons are: 2-3 upshift, momentary pause, slight slip, occasional engine flare (200 RPM max), shift shock then goes into 3rd.

This occurs on the first 2-3 shift of every journey whether trans fluid is hot or cold and is best detected if the car is driven with about 30-50% throttle giving the car firm acceleration and an upshift around the 50-60 KMH mark.

After this has occurred once the shifts appear normal and smooth.

If the vehicle has been shutdown for about an hour or more it will repeat itself but will not if only stopped for shorter periods.

Another thing this trans does is it has a slightly slow and thumpy 4 - 3 downshift at speeds between 70-80 Kmh , higher speeds appear better. All other downshifts 3-2,2-1 are smooth and seamless.

The vehicle had 39 000k when I got it and started noticing these probs shortly after.
It had full log book Dealership history and services completed. At 45000k service trans fluid was changed. 4-3 downshifts did improve for a little while but returned to previous state after a while and made no change to 2-3 upshift.
I have already taken it to the Dealer, no Diagnostic fault codes present- could not fault operation normal. It's now at the 60 000k mark and had the ECU reset at this service but no change. I have driven these cars before and not noticed this problem except in my 98 TF which did the same thing but would flare 500pm on its first 2-3 shift.

I have scoured the web for info and there appears to be plenty of people who have experienced 2-3 shift issues not isolated to Magnas but other models overseas. I've seen I've read there could be seal/o-ring problems in the valve body which I believe is the most likely explanation since it only does it on the first shift. Maybe fluid is bleeding off from this circuit whilst it is not running (or not enough to be noticable whilst driving) and it creates a low pressure when it is activated until the loss is normalised. Maybe similar to air in a brake line .

If anyone can give us some good info on this I'd appreciate it especially in regards to anything Mitsubishi Dealerships have stated as I am expecting a "No fault found" reply from the dealer again.

Hmmmm the KL AWD I drove had the same feel to it as well.

Try the relearn procedure for the TCU.

Otherwise see an auto trans specialist, if its fairly common they'll most likely have some advice for you.

Howdy

I have a 2005 TW VRX,49,000kms and get exactly the same thing,and like yourself,it only occurs on the first 2nd to 3rd shift after the car has been left a while,had it to the dealer,reset TCU,serviced no difference!,look like we will have to live wiith it unfortunately,but atleast its a known problem,i thought i was the only poor bastard!!

Steve

That's interesting Steve, I assume you have the 5 speed Tippy. I hope I don't have to live with it because it does concern me. There have been Tech service bulletins about this issue including our model(Diamante) but they could be for those who have constant flaring on every 2-3 shift. I know there have been some Mits techs floating around in the forums so i would be interested to know their experiences. I have driven the TJ series both rental cars and loaners from the Dealers long enough and never detected this issue. Certainly feels like a pressure problem to me.

mine did this for a while after i got mine(80000km then. I had flush serviced twice in 20000km and now every 30000kms. problem went away. you could get it flushed and to the relearn procedure. there is a thread on it here

Going by the symptoms you're giving, it looks like a valve body problem; it could be a solenoid fault. Try going to a dedicated automatic transmission shop and have your transmission flushed. With a fluid change, only the fluid in the sump is drained; there's still dirty fluid in the valve body and torque convertor.

I would like a fix aswell,but im not sure where to look anymore except for a dedicated trans mob,but did my own oil change as per a tech article and flushed approx 90% of the old oil out,I really do not think it is an oil issue,****,the car has done only 49,000 and has had over 2 oil changes and the last time i did it it was still the correct colour and didnt smell burnt at all etc,so im betting faulty solenoids or similar,but i could be wrong,have been before lol

http://autospeed.com/cms/A_3019/article.html

I tend to agree, I could try flushing again but since it only appears on the first shift I really believe it could be internal seals?? It's like this part of the circuit needs to be primed everytime it's shutdown. I am amazed though that there seems to be plenty of people who have experienced it but no definite response from Mitsubishi. Given this model essentially has been in production since 1996 you would expect these last models to be perfect.

i know its a differant car and prob but my mrs TJ was doing this 3rd-4th its auto not tippy!
had it serviced and they said they had to tighten/adjust a band in the trans.. fixed prob though... may be the same prob!

have you tried this. it is the same for the 5 speeds.
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26310&d=1163723497

Guys.

Take it to mitso and ask the relearn be carried out using the MUT-II.... take it for a test drive before you pay for it...costs $66

I've done mine a couple of times after battery disconnects and it's absolutely perfect... no flaring, low rpm upshifts... just stunning...best thing I have ever done... and I'll continue to do it...
As a side benefit... you'll use less fuel.... I was seeing 1.5L/100k change for the better.



If you attempt the relearn by your self it takes ages...

I get mine done at Parramatta mitsubishi (Opposite Rosehill racecourse) by a tech called Zivko...

Nice bloke.....

Just don't let them wash your car.. some chemical in the recycled water that stains black rubber...

Steve

Guys.

Take it to mitso and ask the relearn be carried out using the MUT-II.... take it for a test drive before you pay for it...costs $66


If you attempt the relearn by your self it takes ages...

Steve
Can the MUT-II be used on TF tippy as well, does anyone know??

Hi, new member joining in hope that there's some experienced folk out there who have experienced 2-3 upshift problems with the F4A51 trans in the Magna. Mine is the 2005 TW series.

Fault symptons are: 2-3 upshift, momentary pause, slight slip, occasional engine flare (200 RPM max), shift shock then goes into 3rd.

This occurs on the first 2-3 shift of every journey whether trans fluid is hot or cold and is best detected if the car is driven with about 30-50% throttle giving the car firm acceleration and an upshift around the 50-60 KMH mark.

After this has occurred once the shifts appear normal and smooth.

If the vehicle has been shutdown for about an hour or more it will repeat itself but will not if only stopped for shorter periods.

Another thing this trans does is it has a slightly slow and thumpy 4 - 3 downshift at speeds between 70-80 Kmh , higher speeds appear better. All other downshifts 3-2,2-1 are smooth and seamless.

The vehicle had 39 000k when I got it and started noticing these probs shortly after.
It had full log book Dealership history and services completed. At 45000k service trans fluid was changed. 4-3 downshifts did improve for a little while but returned to previous state after a while and made no change to 2-3 upshift.
I have already taken it to the Dealer, no Diagnostic fault codes present- could not fault operation normal. It's now at the 60 000k mark and had the ECU reset at this service but no change. I have driven these cars before and not noticed this problem except in my 98 TF which did the same thing but would flare 500pm on its first 2-3 shift.

I have scoured the web for info and there appears to be plenty of people who have experienced 2-3 shift issues not isolated to Magnas but other models overseas. I've seen I've read there could be seal/o-ring problems in the valve body which I believe is the most likely explanation since it only does it on the first shift. Maybe fluid is bleeding off from this circuit whilst it is not running (or not enough to be noticable whilst driving) and it creates a low pressure when it is activated until the loss is normalised. Maybe similar to air in a brake line .

If anyone can give us some good info on this I'd appreciate it especially in regards to anything Mitsubishi Dealerships have stated as I am expecting a "No fault found" reply from the dealer again.

My TJ 2002 (odo 105K) 4 spd Auto has the same problem with the first 2nd-3rd gear change afterbeing switched off. It's being doing it for about 50K now. Feels like someone switches on a turbocharger at 3000RPM. Also, I get an occasional driveline hestitation where the tranny stutters before it grabs. Fluid tends to discolour fairly quickly (within 20K) after a full service so it indicates to me that something may not be quite right.

I have performed an inconclusive search but using the DIY learning procedure, what is the normal operating temp of the trans oil?
As in, to get it to 30 Deg, should i have the car cold and switch it on for how many mins?
I would think that the oil temp when warm is quite high-possibly near 100deg?

Can the MUT-II be used on TF tippy as well, does anyone know??


From what the guys at mitso told me.... yes....

The 4 speed doesn't have the same "issues" when disconnecting the battery (RPM flare etc)

The self learning procedure is much more straight forward for the 4 speeds..I think the self learning procedure that gets posted up is specifically for the 4 speed autos...

It's the 5 speeds that get confused....

Steve

My TJ 2002 (odo 105K) 4 spd Auto has the same problem with the first 2nd-3rd gear change afterbeing switched off. It's being doing it for about 50K now. Feels like someone switches on a turbocharger at 3000RPM. Also, I get an occasional driveline hestitation where the tranny stutters before it grabs. Fluid tends to discolour fairly quickly (within 20K) after a full service so it indicates to me that something may not be quite right.

Best get the car to mitso... they'll connect the MUT-II to shut down the self learning thing...

Then they'll drive around on a purely mechanical transmission.... they'll see if a problem arises during that... (IE: no electronic imputs from the ECU)
This is where they find mechanical problems with the 'box..... (like low line pressure, worn bands etc....)

Quite cool actually....

Steve

well thanks for all the replies.
To sum it up, fluid has been changed by Mits - no change.
Reset the ECU/TCU as per the instructions posted - no change.
Last service( last week) TCU/ECU reset by mits and they will test drive it when another part to be replaced by warranty comes in but no change.
It now idles low and hangs on to third too long. Have had it hanging on to 3rd at 80K on the flat , constant throttle position and zero acceleration.

I have avoided suggesting on how to go about diagnosing it but this is where you can find big differences in ways it can be approached. For all I know the most experienced bloke there may only have limited experience which is why I was pretty keen to join these forums and throw it out there.

I think disabling the invecs and performing line pressure checks could be a good idea but I feel that they probably feel that the car drives ok which it generally does. One of those real niggly faults which takes up peoples time and no profit.

From what the guys at mitso told me.... yes....

The 4 speed doesn't have the same "issues" when disconnecting the battery (RPM flare etc)

The self learning procedure is much more straight forward for the 4 speeds..I think the self learning procedure that gets posted up is specifically for the 4 speed autos...

It's the 5 speeds that get confused....

Steve

:nuts:
have you tried this. it is the same for the 5 speeds.
http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26310&d=1163723497

i didn't put this in for the fun of it. it is the same procedure. It is interesting tho that I have never been told that it has been possible to do the learning procedure thru the MUT II.

My AWD tranny got tighter with the tranny cooler installed. Still the rotten 3-2 downchange thru the windscreen nonsence thou. Needs a clutch for that one.

:nuts:

i didn't put this in for the fun of it. it is the same procedure. It is interesting tho that I have never been told that it has been possible to do the learning procedure thru the MUT II.

Fair call champ...sorry didn't mean to offend..

I actually tried this procedure for a good 2 hours last time it happened...

Still had the 2nd to 3rd RPM flare...was ok at very light throttle but anything over 30-40% it would flare like a mongrel.

Went to mitso.. told the what was going on and they did a relearn via the MUT-II..

I swear by it.... I would whole heartedly endorse people to get it done... especially at Parra Mitso... and by Zivko like I stated... Haven't tried anywhere else but I'd say that the results would be the same.

Steve