G'day,

I finally unjammed the motor on the TN. I loosened off the conrod bearing carrier nuts, chucked teh crankshaft pulley back on, and twisted the bolt with a breaker bar. After some wiggling it finally gave. This was good.

I undid #4 conrod and no surprise, it had spun. What was a surprise was why. Sure there was oil starvation, but that wasn't the whole reason. There was metal. Too much metal in largish flakes stuck to the bearing, and long curved bits beside the bearing. Total surface area of the flakes ranged up to nearly fingernail size.

It appeared they came from the oil gallery, as there were quite a lot of chunks of metal in there too. Where did they come from? #4 main perhaps? I haven't cracked the mains yet.

I took off #1 conrod bearing too to get a feel of what was happening. It hadn't spun, but there was oil starvation scoring. Fair enough. No chunks of metal in the gallery there either.

I think I should be able to get away with replacing the conrod bearings, twisting in a set of big end bearings, and hopefully just repositioning the balance shafts, as the chain when it is adjusted out does get tight.

Any idea where I can get a cheap set of conrod and big end bearings?

EBay will get you $20 conrod bearings
Ziff ebay links...
Not sure about quality but it's something to consider.

EBay will get you $20 conrod bearings
Ziff ebay links...
Not sure about quality but it's something to consider.

I saw them and was seriously considering them. So far $47 is the best I have found for big end bearings though. kind of surprised there aren't any floating around on eBay.

Given the application, quality isn't much of an issue, as it's a rough workaround for a big problem. I wouldn't expect them to have along life anyway.

repco / bursons / super cheap give different prices for each bearing set

best to shop around for the lowest price

any pictures ?

If the bearings are stuffed how good are the crankshaft surfaces ?

Pistons in Bayswater, they also sell them on fleabay

Personally I would never chuck in a new bearing where one has spun. You can not just spin in new big end bearing either, especially the center bearing which also controls end float.

Bearing spin and you would be surprised how much damage is actually done when this happens due to the material the bearings are made out of

I still have the block here, you can have it for free, cheaper than a set of bearings etc lol Just whack a head on it and is good to go

repco / bursons / super cheap give different prices for each bearing set

best to shop around for the lowest price

any pictures ?

If the bearings are stuffed how good are the crankshaft surfaces ?

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/general_failure/no_4_conrod_shell.jpg

just that pic of #4 conrod shell. #1 shell had a few gouges but it hadn't spun. Photobucket resized it unfortunately. The shiny bits on the surface are actually extra bits of metal mashed in, not bits ground off.

The crankshaft surfaces are passable. Because there was plenty of meat left on the bearings, and the seizure occurred while the car was idling and stopped on the side of the road, they were pretty much saved.
The topend is fine. It happened too quickly to even leave the cam bare.


Pistons in Bayswater, they also sell them on fleabay

Personally I would never chuck in a new bearing where one has spun. You can not just spin in new big end bearing either, especially the center bearing which also controls end float.

Bearing spin and you would be surprised how much damage is actually done when this happens due to the material the bearings are made out of

I still have the block here, you can have it for free, cheaper than a set of bearings etc lol Just whack a head on it and is good to go

Oh, that doesn't sound good. The center bearing on the Astron controls end float? I did not realise that. I have a suspicion that #4 main self destructed, clogged the gallery for #4 conrod with the entrails and force fed it metal.

Problem is getting there to pick up the motor. The only vehicle left here is that is both registered and can move under its own power is the Falcon. It is very infirm, and if it does make the trip, I'd be looking at more than $80 in petrol. Yes I only live about 200km away. But it's getting through $6 - $8 of petrol in a 10km trip into town these days. What's wrong with it? Absolutely everything.
I would have been fine if my other halfs father didn't insist / volunteer to come along. I was just going to get a one day permit on the van and take it down. But he wants me to take the Falcon and rent a trailer. Argh!

thanks for the picture:cool:

idea ! rent a ute lol

thanks for the picture:cool:

idea ! rent a ute lol

That's actually a pretty good idea.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y249/general_failure/no_2_conrod_shell.jpg

Here's #2 shell. Well, half of it anyway. My daughter woke up just after i took that out. Look at all those gouges!

I've also checked the bottom half of #1 and #2 main bearings. They are fine, surprisingly. Some metallic crud came out of the galleries which I cleaned up. I put them back on afterwards with some bearing grease so I can turn the motor without grinding them. I torqued them down enough, but not as much as factory, because I plan on taking them off again after I flush the oil system. I just want the crank to be held in place for now.

Still seeing too much metal. Or at least it seems that way. The oil pump is definitely getting an inspection.

Edit:

These bearings are made out of a single compound right?

On closer inspection, the one that I provided a picture of looks more like the the gouged metal has been added, rather than removed. It seems to be a roughly .5mm thick coating of another metal.

Oh, nevermind. I just realised that it's an aluminium bearing with a steel carrier. Well, that's good news because it means that there wasn't any steel on steel action anywhere, except that spun #4 conrod. But there's barely even a scratch on that. Looks like it only made it around maybe half a revolution.

a repco short motor might be alright

with that sort of heat on your current motor I would check

the crankshaft with a micrometer

check carefully the outer block across the welsh plugs for cracking

the cylinders if scored go for new pistons oversize

if you can afford it reface the block and head

have a pressure test done to the block and head

going re ring and bearings may not be sucessfull:redface:

Not entirely sure how you go oversize on a bearing, you usually go undersize as once your crank is ground the journal is smaller.

Dont bother trying to fit new bearings, it will fail again quickly

The oil pump may be a big part of the issue, may have also had the oil pump bypass block.

You may be just better off buying a magna from fleabay that is drivable, swap engines and drive off again. The time this has taken so far, while interesting for you as you have been slowly discovering what has happened, you could ahve had another motor in there by now.

Also, why on earth are yo doing this with the motor in?

From the look of the bearing shells you definitely need a crank polish if not a grind, and new bearings. New bearings on a damaged crank will fail very quickly. Pull the engine out and do it properly. Get the block washed out by an engine shop and get them to check bore wear. Check clearances on everything! New rings if a rebore in not needed. A spun bigend usually means that con rod needs to be remachined or replaced as it will be out of round. Cheap and quick is not the way to go!

a repco short motor might be alright

with that sort of heat on your current motor I would check

the crankshaft with a micrometer..... if no good ......go oversize

check carefully the outer block across the welsh plugs for cracking

the cylinders if scored go for new pistons oversize

if you can afford it reface the block and head

have a pressure test done to the block and head

going re ring and bearings may not be sucessfull:redface:


Ungh. I hate multiquoting across pages, and am not good at it so just bear with me...

I'm gareeing with the possibility (well, probability) of failure. But to be honest even if the engine lasts for maybe 10 hours of operation I would consider it a success.

Not sure how many of you have experienced this, but we're at the brunt of an absolutely shocking snowballing of events, which reached the bottom of the mountain and got stuck in a whole bush of prickly catch-22s.

One of the most recent point of the snowball gaining momentum was the engine seizing the day before my partner was going to go for her Auto provisional license test. She can't drive a manual due to nerve damage in her left leg. This is also the same thing stopping me from getting proper employment as it would leave her and our daughter stranded.

All of this was shortly after my part time job ended, and another job I got pushed us to the brink of bankruptcy because of questionable pay practices and job expenses adding up to more than twice the income.

The remaining registered vehicle I pretty much left to rot when the magna was registered, because the Falcon is at the end of its service life and a nightmare to drive. I could have driven the Magna to Melbourne and back on the same amount of fuel the Falcon gets through for a couple of runs into town 5km away.

During all this it lookeed, and still looks like we may be out of this place we are renting in the near future too, so most of our stuff is in storage. Another drain.

Not aiming for a sob story here. Just trying to give a better picture of this utterly idiotic situation we have fallen into.

Even if I could squeeze a couple of weeks of errand running out of the motor in the Magna for cheap, it would offset enough costs to be able to get a financial toehold again and do something proper about the situation.

The next two months also hold an extremely good chance of myself gaining some employment through a few different avenues when I can actually do a proper repair

It is incredibly frustrating to me that there is a perfectly serviceable engine sitting waiting for me only 200km away that I can't get to!... and can't get into the engine bay if I do get it.
Pretty much everybody I know lives over 1000km away, so I can't exactly borrow the heavy lifting tools from them.

One thing I have wanted to ask, but have been afraid to because of the stupidity of the question, but can I drop the engine and transmission out as opposed to hoisting it?
Even then that leaves some pretty big ???, but as a longtime aircooled VW owner I've had a lot of practice at extracting drivetrains from underneath.

MadMagna, I too have serious doubts about the oil pump. Even though the chain was insanely loose when I pulled the sump off. That's the main reason I was going to chuck a balance shaft elimination kit in there too. A cheap bandaid fix, with a few benefits as a bonus.

I guess I should finish pulling the timing case off. To me it's like a Pandoras Box of sorts. I've already unleashed enough evils from the sump as it is!

VW man here also

I have dropped several magna motors out from underneath

Dropping the engine and gearbox with out lifting eguipment

floor jack and car stands
with engine stripped of head ,inlet manifold , exhaust manifold
north south brace under chassis
exhaust to cat converter
had to remove
air conditioning compressor
power steering pump
rear engine support bracket
drivers side cv joint
undo speedo at auto

was able to leave on
alternator, starter motor
front engine mount bracket
interim and passenger side cv drive shaft
gearbox

car on car stands (saftey first )
minimum height from floor at tyre jack point 40 cm
support engine/gearbox with good floor jack
undo drive plate bolts to torque converter
undo automatic shift and all electrical connections
look out for one bracket on chassis below the brake master cyl undo it
undo starter motor and alternator wires
oil sender wire

tie up inlet manifold and air con compressor to stop getting in the way

undo auto oil cooler hoses off of radiator to auto box
undo engine mount bolts 4x14 mm on passenger side into timing cover support
undo 4x14 driverside in through mudguard

lower onto a trolly or the jack to the floor and drag unit out from under car

Funnily it looks like I'd have to put some stuff back on to do that. Doesn't mean I'm not going to though. Glad it's droppable!

An update on the timing case removal. I can't get it off. To my horror I discovered that the head on one of the bolts on the AC pump was rounded. AHHHH!

Next step the stilsons I guess.
It's only that idler pully mount that is in the way.I've loosened off all the bolts and actually have the case sitting a couple of mm out from its home, but it can go out no further.

When I discovered the aircon bolt, I threw in the towel for the day.

Well, I finally had the chance to put the conrod bearings in. Well, a couple of them. Problem is though, when the nuts are anything more than finger tight, I need some serious force with a breaker bar to turn the engine.

No idea what the deal is with that.

I'm hoping that MadMagna can hold on until next week with that block there. I'm hanging out for that financial stimulus lump sum thing, which will at least pay for a permit for now for my van so I can pick it up.

Because the engine really does seem like a lost cause without a complete teardown which I can't exactly do in the next couple of weeks before I need to move house, and lack of equipment anyway, there is only one real solution. Another motor.

If I had something like an old briggs and stratton industrial or an electric motor with the reduction box and a V belt sitting around here, I'd get American DIY on it.
Hook the crankshaft pulley up to the motor with a belt, have the offending bearings as tight as they will go without locking the engine, shove the sump on with some oil in it, and turn the motor for a few minutes. drop sump, tighten nuts a little and repeat. Grind down the little buggers to fit. Not like I'd be wrecking anything salvagable. It does need a new crank I think.

Looks like the clearances on the cheap eBay bearings aren't so hot eh?

Well, that's about all I can say on the matter. It's going to be fun shifting it for sure. At least I hooked us another rental house around the corner!

When the bearings tighten up like that, it could be some excess metal on the crank, or more likely one or more con rod big ends have been hammered out of round while the engine was in self destruct mode.

a repco short motor might be alright

with that sort of heat on your current motor I would check

the crankshaft with a micrometer

check carefully the outer block across the welsh plugs for cracking

the cylinders if scored go for new pistons oversize

if you can afford it reface the block and head

have a pressure test done to the block and head

going re ring and bearings may not be sucessfull:redface:


left out: check big ends for out-of-round. (internal micrometer)