hey guys what is the cheapest piggyback ECU, that can be used for say a raptor charger?
the raptor one is about $1000, im looking for somthing a bit cheaper, or get second hand.
preferably one that can switch tunes, easy and quickly.
ive looked around and yes ive done a search, but im still not sure which one to get.
thanx

hey guys what is the cheapest piggyback ECU, that can be used for say a raptor charger?


This is going to end in tears. If you can't afford decent engine management, I would assume you can't afford to repair the damage to your engine that will result from having a inadequate features for your requirements.

My experience says it is an area that you shouldn't skimp in, and if I had my time again I would ditch the Piggyback altogether and go with a full replacement ECU.

This is going to end in tears. If you can't afford decent engine management, I would assume you can't afford to repair the damage to your engine that will result from having a inadequate features for your requirements.

My experience says it is an area that you shouldn't skimp in, and if I had my time again I would ditch the Piggyback altogether and go with a full replacement ECU.
:stoopid:

although im quite happy with my piggyback.. but definitely don't skimp on this.. otherwise byebye pistons

as the others have said, engine management is essential in avoiding a costly rebuild.

for a quality piggyback, you're not going to get much change out of $1000. the SMT6 that I'm running cost almost $800 and that was about 2 years ago.

cheers,
.wook

If you haven't got the $ for decent mmt, you most likey can't afford the S/C and the new insurance rate that it attracts. I know what it's like to have no money but still want to go fast, but please GET GOOD ENGINE MMT! Just look at the people who've already posted.

Remember that getting the right MMT now WILL save you money later, whether it's engine protection or expandability when your situation (be it power reqs or $) changes.

More of a what you NEED to hear, rather than what you WANT to hear I'm sure.


What other options have caught your eye?

As per everyone elses comments.

Basically, if you cant afford $1600 for an ECU, you cant afford your car. You definately wont be able to afford the rebuild.

Haltech ECU's - run closed loop (road legal), can even make a plug and play ECU patch loom, around $1600, which means no wiring needed, plug it in, have it tuned, and forget.

If you haven't got the $ for decent mmt, you most likey can't afford the S/C and the new insurance rate that it attracts. I know what it's like to have no money but still want to go fast, but please GET GOOD ENGINE MMT! Just look at the people who've already posted.

Remember that getting the right MMT now WILL save you money later, whether it's engine protection or expandability when your situation (be it power reqs or $) changes.

More of a what you NEED to hear, rather than what you WANT to hear I'm sure.


What other options have caught your eye?

:stoopid:

and like ers just said you will need to budget around 1600 by the time you get it installed and tuned. Also why do you want to switch tunes? if you are doing the W2a raptor (which i assume you are) no point having a real aggressive tune and a safe tune, end of the day you will probably cook the motor with the aggressive tune as the 3.5l isnt the best thing (piston wise) to be pushing hard stock.

The Aem Fic looks like an excellent budget contender.

Cheap. Fast. Reliable.

Pick any two.

mate dig around ebay.. you'll find something 2nd hand at a decent price...

I have a feeling his question may have been interperated wrong,

What's the cheapest SAFE ECU he can use?

Haltech.

Unless Microtech have changed some of their line up, Haltech is the only ECU to run closed loop operation, making it road legal. Roughly $1600 with a plug and play loom (no wiring work to be done).

Haltech.

Unless Microtech have changed some of their line up, Haltech is the only ECU to run closed loop operation, making it road legal. Roughly $1600 with a plug and play loom (no wiring work to be done).

Microtech run closed loop - Narrow band
Haltech run closed loop - Narrow band
Autronic run closed loop - Wide band
Adaptronic run closed loop - Wide band
Motec run closed loop - Wide band

Any of the upper ECU's run closed loop idle, fuel, boost control. The basic ones like haltech and microtech only run closed loop fuel control via a narrow band only for cruise.

So Microtech have changed their ways - learnt something new :)

The Haltech E8 runs closed loop boost, idle, and O2 sensor...

thanks, guys, i have the time and money too do this, i just thought, no harm looking for a safe, cheaper option.
looks like i will have to get a good one then.
any suggestions on a good second hand one?
i will hunt around in the F/S section and Ebay
if i cant find one, looks like imight go the raptors supplied one

I don't know why you people are even talking about full replacements when it's clear he's trying to keep costs down for "bang-for-buck". I maintain a correctly tuned piggyback will do the job like this just fine, for much less cost and hassle.

Why would you go the much higher expense/hassle/compromises of a full replacement, if none of it's advanced features are likely to be used anyway. I'd rather keep the change and factory idle control, lean cruise etc.

OP:
There's no one correct answer, plenty of ECUs are capable of doing the job, it's a pretty simple application we're talking about, nothing tricky. The main deciding factor should be what which ECUs your tuner is experienced/comfortable with - the limiting factor is rarely the ecu, but the tuner's competence.

Personally, if I were to replace my SMT6, I'd run a Haltech interceptor/miniceptor - they are around $700, good features for a piggyback, and my tuner knows Haltechs inside out. AFAIK they run higher resolution maps (24x24?) than most piggybacks, and multiple maps are not a problem.

Don't buy a second-hand ecu unless you are SURE it's suited to your car. Often there are different variants of the same ECU, if it came out of another car it may not work with a magna.

Also I highly recomend you don't start any work if you don't have a decent amount of cash in reserve beyond the budget. In my experience most of the time when it comes to modding cars, things nearly always end up costing a bit more than anticipated, due to unforseen issues/costs. Sometimes you end up spending MUCH more than anticipated.

thanks mate, exactly what i was looking to hear

i got a haltech miniceptor and i love it thus far, and so does the tuners, they rekon they are easy to use and know them inside out, and youwill find most major tuners will know them as well.

i got a haltech miniceptor and i love it thus far, and so does the tuners, they rekon they are easy to use and know them inside out, and youwill find most major tuners will know them as well.

Yep, I'm a big fan of Haltech miniceptor/interceptors for that reason. They are cheap but feature-rich for a piggyback, easy/quick to tune, and widely supported, so even if you move interstate etc you should always be able to find a local tuner if you need a retune.

Although that's not to say there aren't other good options too, depending on where you are.

Chrisholm - while I agree with the majority of your post, a replacement ECU does not mean hassle/compromise.

I know Haltech make the patch looms, pretty sure Microtech will, making these plug and play, and control all factory systems as per the factory ECU.

In my mind, piggybacks are still a bandaid solution, I know this isnt always the case, however, for an extra $900 to have a brand new, plug and play ECU of whatever your choosing - I dont get why you would bother with a piggy back.

Bang for your buck? Seriously, you're modifying a car, since when was this cheap and even when did this make sense?

Chrisholm - while I agree with the majority of your post, a replacement ECU does not mean hassle/compromise.

I know Haltech make the patch looms, pretty sure Microtech will, making these plug and play, and control all factory systems as per the factory ECU.

In my mind, piggybacks are still a bandaid solution, I know this isnt always the case, however, for an extra $900 to have a brand new, plug and play ECU of whatever your choosing - I dont get why you would bother with a piggy back.

Bang for your buck? Seriously, you're modifying a car, since when was this cheap and even when did this make sense?

I'm happy to admit I don't have much experience with replacement ECUs, but from what I can tell, often they are compromised when it comes to idle control and low load/rpm smoothness. But I'm guessing it varies depending on the ECU and the tuning -I've seen rough-as cars with replacements, but they were also track cars, so I doubt much priority was given to street manners.

Plug and play is lovely, but availablility for a magna?

I agree with the last sentiment, I'm generally a fan of the "pay more and get it done right the first time" approach, rather than to skimp on things and end up maybe spending more later re-doing things. My tuner has a saying - "Poor guys often end up paying more in the end".

But where do you draw the line, it's up to the individual to decide how much they are willing to spend for what result. The key is to do your research thouroughly so you know exactly what you are getting yourself into and can make an im informed decision, rather than "winging it" and seeing how it works out.

ill i need to support is a lowboost application, NO boost controlling, or meth injection, etc etc.
just a set boost of 6.5psi, what is the need for a full repacement??
after driving a modded R33 with a full replacement, ECU, the thing ran like a dog, would not idle etc, i have no need for a Full replacement

Plug and play is lovely, but availablility for a magna?

I agree with the last sentiment, I'm generally a fan of the "pay more and get it done right the first time" approach, rather than to skimp on things and end up maybe spending more later re-doing things. My tuner has a saying - "Poor guys often end up paying more in the end".

But where do you draw the line, it's up to the individual to decide how much they are willing to spend for what result.

Plug and Play for Magna - Haltech dont have a kit, however, they are usually more than accomodating in making a plug and play harness for a car (yes, I like Haltech....not saying other ECU's are bad, I just prefer Haltech)

As for where to draw the line, its rather simple - I'de rather a car with fewer mods, that are new, and reasonably priced, rather than more, cheaper mods. Quality over quantity for me.

after driving a modded R33 with a full replacement, ECU, the thing ran like a dog, would not idle etc, i have no need for a Full replacement

$20 says that was a Microtech, with the factory loom hacked to accomodate the Microtech*

(microtech arnt bad either.....this just seems to be the norm from my experience)

Rough idle, running badly - this is down the the install and tune, as they say, a good trademan never blames his tools.

$20 says that was a Microtech, with the factory loom hacked to accomodate the Microtech*

(microtech arnt bad either.....this just seems to be the norm from my experience)

Rough idle, running badly - this is down the the install and tune, as they say, a good trademan never blames his tools.

With the couple of guys on here who have full ECU's are still using the factory for cold idle and cruise situations i believe, like a piggyback really from memory

im a little confused.. and not really fully accross the capabilities of tuning.. but how do u plan to run no boost from a supercharger via the flick of a switch? are you going to have a huge bypass valve or something?? sorry if there is an obvious answer I just don't really understand how it would work.. the amount of boost is decided by the size of the pulley....

Until recently it was hard enough to find a piggy back ecu for a magna.. a full replacement is a bit over the top for this application in my opinion... same with using variable maps.. unless you use your car for long trips or towing ontop of every day driving if this is the case then its definitely great.. but for just every day normal driving i don't see the point of it, just don't mash the pedal as much and change gears earlier...

however I do believe you will have trouble finding a better value for money (thats suited to your application) piggyback ecu than what raptor provide. and you can even save money as you can install yourself then drive gently to get the tune touched up.. anyhing else your either going to have to get tuned where u install it or get the car towed to the tuner.

IMHO go for something thats proven and tested and safe... I personally would stick to what raptor provide, as then you have the backup and support from them.

I chose the XEDE path because this is what Bulletcars and Chiptorque trusted, and also TZABOY is using so I knew it was alright...

i mean, its not like im running a turbo, and want to change the boost, im just saying, that its one less thing to worry about, as im just running the boost that the pully is set at.
my point was i thought a piggyback would be sufficent to use, as the only thing, im doing to the car is running 6.5Psi, the ecu doesnt have to worry about doing anything extra, like changing boost, or knock detection with timing retarding, meth injection, or any onther fancy feature that i wont use

i mean, its not like im running a turbo, and want to change the boost, im just saying, that its one less thing to worry about, as im just running the boost that the pully is set at.
my point was i thought a piggyback would be sufficent to use, as the only thing, im doing to the car is running 6.5Psi, the ecu doesnt have to worry about doing anything extra, like changing boost, or knock detection with timing retarding, meth injection, or any onther fancy feature that i wont use


then go the raptor supplied one.. or maybe the stm6 that comes with the sprintex units...

then go the raptor supplied one.. or maybe the stm6 that comes with the sprintex units...

which brings, me back to my OP, of anything cheaper, i like Chrisolms suggstion of the Haltec interceptor/miniceptor, for $700

only problem some ppl think i will damage my engine, doing this, but if its capable of running the boost, i see no harm

$20 says that was a Microtech, with the factory loom hacked to accomodate the Microtech*

(microtech arnt bad either.....this just seems to be the norm from my experience)

Rough idle, running badly - this is down the the install and tune, as they say, a good trademan never blames his tools.

20$ says old mate was like GIVE ME OVER 9000kw's and the tuner spent all his time tuning high rpm not where itll be driven.

Im one of the people who actually runs a full aftermarket ECU and can safely say it starts and idles like factory cause believe it or not it's programmed as a factory computer once was. All factory settings can be set the same but it comes down to time spent.

Do you want to pay a tuner an extra hr mins (>150$) after he misses the window to get it just right before its warm to ensure your cold start is near perfect or do you live with it. Actually he chooses you live with it as you drive a magna and he cant be bothered.

Also microtech ECUs are pretty (very) similar to haltechs. Haltech wins imo.

where is turbo charade when you need him, oh wait banned :roll:

I'm happy to admit I don't have much experience with replacement ECUs, but from what I can tell, often they are compromised when it comes to idle control and low load/rpm smoothness. But I'm guessing it varies depending on the ECU and the tuning -I've seen rough-as cars with replacements, but they were also track cars, so I doubt much priority was given to street manners.

The ProSequential runs idle etc all fine - as it doesn't fiddle with those signals. With a FULL replacement ECU you would have to spend the time building idle profiles inc power steering and air con loads. Just as long as the Interceptor has good rpm/load resolution you will get a decent enough result without unpleasant lumpiness or deterioration in driveability.

The ProSequential runs idle etc all fine - as it doesn't fiddle with those signals. With a FULL replacement ECU you would have to spend the time building idle profiles inc power steering and air con loads. Just as long as the Interceptor has good rpm/load resolution you will get a decent enough result without unpleasant lumpiness or deterioration in driveability.

Just as you intercept the fuel and ignition with a interceptor, you can run a programmable ECU in piggy back as mentioned, leaving idle, auto and AC to be run by the stock computer. This allows you to run those two fuel maps, two ignition maps, a decient fuel and ignition table, water injection, rev limiters, boost limiters, and all the fundimental stuff that an interceptor leaves std and not scalable.

Also as mentioned, idle is a very basic function but not usually set up when you ask for a $300 tune, as thats about 2 hours.

Pretty much any ECU, even a microtech, can be set up to drive a car as good as, if not better than standard.... It all comes down to who sets it up and tunes is, just like a interceptor.

With so many great australian ECU's which can be had for relativly cheap, I can't see why anyone runs a interceptor or piggyback now days. Back when powerful ECU's were 2000 and a piggyback was 700 I could see why, but not now days.

It really is worth the extra money, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just trying to justify their own purchase, or trying to sell you a piggy back IN MY OPINION

My adaptronic e420c has all the features of a haltech E8, Except you save $600.
www.adaptronic.com.au
I think its a VERY good bang for buck ECU.

Props to Roy.

The difference these days is a few hundred between a good stand alone ECU, be it Microtech, Haltech, Adaptronic, Wolf etc and a piggy back.....

Seriously, just cut back on the smokes for a month :)

TUFF - yeah shame about that dodgy wiring work someone done in your enginebay :P

Props to Roy.

The difference these days is a few hundred between a good stand alone ECU, be it Microtech, Haltech, Adaptronic, Wolf etc and a piggy back.....

Seriously, just cut back on the smokes for a month :)

TUFF - yeah shame about that dodgy wiring work someone done in your enginebay :P
GTFO Ive spent 5 hours in the last 2 days making it prettier!
(doesnt sound like much but at like 30 degrees its enough lol)
Ill take purty pics when its done, But yeah looks alot better!

Then post the pics up - show us your hidden bits lol

ok so no one has any objections to the haltec miniceptor/interceptor

']My adaptronic e420c has all the features of a haltech E8, Except you save $600.
www.adaptronic.com.au
I think its a VERY good bang for buck ECU.
except nobody tunes them ;)

except nobody tunes them ;)
plenty of people do.

One thing for sure anyone here with an auto trans - probably most members will be going piggyback whether they like it, the manual drivers can take on the more complex full replacement if they like

I do believe a member here who bought injectors from me had tuning problems today as the piggyback on his vehicle did not have the scalability on the MAF signal needed to bring the big injectors into range, he may post here he may not but be damn sure you got plenty tuning scalability for 470cc injectors, which our supplied Prosequential does - and very easily I might add. Otherwise you may end up with 2 ECU's, one that didn't do the job and one that did

My 5c

Just like the intercepter allows the auto to still work, but not doing anything to it. You can set up a fully programmable ECU to exactly the same way. Then you have it control things properly like a intercepter ECU struggles to.

One thing for sure anyone here with an auto trans - probably most members will be going piggyback whether they like it, the manual drivers can take on the more complex full replacement if they like

I do believe a member here who bought injectors from me had tuning problems today as the piggyback on his vehicle did not have the scalability on the MAF signal needed to bring the big injectors into range, he may post here he may not but be damn sure you got plenty tuning scalability for 470cc injectors, which our supplied Prosequential does - and very easily I might add. Otherwise you may end up with 2 ECU's, one that didn't do the job and one that did

My 5c

No, its just the SMT6 doesnt modify the regular 6 injectors it only intercepts the crank angle sensor and the 7th injector, and reads off a standard 2 bar map sensor, Wookie has posted it up in his build thread, im still scratching my head why he still uses the SMT6 rather doing a Haltech or similar with his water/meth kit.

I think there would also be a lot more credibility behind a kit which supplied a full programmable ECU rather than a "intercepter".

I think there would also be a lot more credibility behind a kit which supplied a full programmable ECU rather than a "intercepter".

Roy there's clearly two schools of thought here......

Im with the fully programmable ECU school, for the reasons you stated basically, I just cant see why anyone who would pour 5K+ into any engine, and not spend an extra $500-800 on a good ECU over a piggy back/interceptor. To me its beyond comprehension :nuts:

Each to their own I guess :)

There are piggybacks and piggybacks :D

The Prosequential has its own injector drivers for instance, a lot of piggybacks do not have this feature, it is in effect a full standalone ECU with just a few bits missing that prevent it from being full standalone.

The Prosequential a better thing than most here realise, but will come to understand the simplicity (versus a standalone), the simplicity of tuning yet giving great fuel econ, smooth running and plenty load points to allow tuning for serious power.

Its all there on a plate, wiring diagrams the whole lot for Magna owners to successfully and easily install. The unit is completely preconfigured in terms of reading the ignition pulses etc, no stuffing around, wire it up and start the motor :D Just how it should be.

Does it remove control to the injectors and trigger them from the ECU? Similarly with the ignitor/ignition coil?

No, its just the SMT6 doesnt modify the regular 6 injectors it only intercepts the crank angle sensor and the 7th injector, and reads off a standard 2 bar map sensor, Wookie has posted it up in his build thread, im still scratching my head why he still uses the SMT6 rather doing a Haltech or similar with his water/meth kit.

because I don't *need* anything to run my WI kit. it comes with it's own controller.

as I posted in my thread, the SMT6 *can* control the other injectors, it just isn't set up to by Sprintex (purely for cost reasons, I'm sure).

cheers,
.wook

Here is Stacks item on the dyno, fueling and ignition by Prosequential

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__32vED_rBU

Does it remove control to the injectors and trigger them from the ECU? Similarly with the ignitor/ignition coil?

Roy

Yes it does take control and the piggy fires them directly, correct

Okay, then it would be wired in the exact way a fully programable would be.

a. what is the resolution of the timing and fuel maps
b. if firing the injectors directly, how does it run cold start trims - does it use a WT sensor from the engine?
c. how does it control asyncronous throttle pump for transient throttle appliction - does it use a TPS from the engine?

Okay, then it would be wired in the exact way a fully programable would be.

a. what is the resolution of the timing and fuel maps
b. if firing the injectors directly, how does it run cold start trims - does it use a WT sensor from the engine?
c. how does it control asyncronous throttle pump for transient throttle appliction - does it use a TPS from the engine?

a. 500rpm upto 10000.
b. No cold start trim that i'm aware of. No WT input.
c. Yes, TPS into a % load for the map. You can select different map variables thou. For boost you'd run MAP vs RPM as apposed to TPS vs RPM for NA.

a. 500rpm upto 10000. - In how many increments, 1000 rpm, 500 rpm or 250rpm steps?
b. No cold start trim that i'm aware of. No WT input. - That is rough as guts and can't be right?
c. Yes, TPS into a % load for the map. You can select different map variables thou. For boost you'd run MAP vs RPM as apposed to TPS vs RPM for NA. - I ment throttle pump, to stop mixtures needing to be so rich at low load for quick throttle blips?

?????

a. 500rpm upto 10000.
b. No cold start trim that i'm aware of. No WT input.
c. Yes, TPS into a % load for the map. You can select different map variables thou. For boost you'd run MAP vs RPM as apposed to TPS vs RPM for NA.

even the SMT6 has a water temp input.

even the SMT6 has a water temp input.

thats cuz its needed to pull timing when the heat gets high yeah?

thats cuz its needed to pull timing when the heat gets high yeah?
nope, that's pulled from an air temp sensor inside the blower.

the more I find out about the SMT6, the more I think it will do everything that I'm after. even if no one wants to work on it.

it must just be that sprintex gutted all the extra stuff to keep overheads down...

nope, that's pulled from an air temp sensor inside the blower.

the more I find out about the SMT6, the more I think it will do everything that I'm after. even if no one wants to work on it.

For anyone who is interested i will have an unlocked SMT6 totally not touched by sprintex AFAIK so should still come with all the crap that sprintex took off it and its going to be really cheap to.

http://www.moristech.com.au/black-box-m1.asp

Stand alone big-brother to the Pro Sequential. Download the free software and skim the features to see if it's what you're after. :cool:

Prices start at $1250.