What could cause power loss after a manual conversion? As some of you may know i had an auto to manual conversion done to my Verada recently. Since then the power has been down a lot.

First the S/C was leaking. That was fixed and it improved things slightly but still power was down heaps. The car could only make a max of 70 kw at the wheels on the dyno.

Now the S/C is off and the car is back to N/A. There is a vacumm leak somewhere after going back to N/A which should be fixed tomorrow but i have a gut feeling the power loss will still be there.

Some things to keep in mind:
- the SMT6 piggy back ECU has been disconnected
- the original ECU has been reset (battery disconnect/reconnect)
- correct spark plugs are being used for N/A
- manual gearbox works and shifts fine
- TCL OFF light is flashing due to lack of auto tranny

What could be causing this power loss? Could the manual gearbox have anything to do with it even though it works fine?

I had a vacuum leak where the EGR pipe connects to the back of the manifold, caused power to be down significantly (car was very painful to drive) and the TCL light to flash on the dash.

The ECU is thinking there is an issue with the trans (and it's right as its not there) and I would say it is going into a limp home mode.

In effect you need to be telling the starting system the car is in neutral and at the same time be telling the ECU the car is in drive.

When at standstill the Trans will generally select a higher gear to prevent the car pulling at the lights. The ECU may be getting confused and retarding the crap out of the timing etc waiting for the trans to give the signal of the gear it is in?

Have you had it on the Dyno and actually read the ignition curve with a good old timing light. This may tell you a lot and where to actually start looking.

What exactly has been done in relation to wiring?

I had a look at the EGR and it looks alright but the shop's gonna check it tomorrow anyway.

Regarding the wiring, the inhibitor switch is being tricked into thinking the car is in neutral so it can be started when the clutch is depressed. They also put a relay in there somewhere as when they were testing the starting of it, it would not start after a few goes, needed to draw more power i think they said.

I agree something in the wiring has gone wrong :cry: .... should be really simple to fix tho!

You should not need to depress the clutch for the car to start..... when I did mine I didnt use any relay ..... I would find out a little more about that. 70KWATW you would be pissed !



I had a look at the EGR and it looks alright but the shop's gonna check it tomorrow anyway.

Regarding the wiring, the inhibitor switch is being tricked into thinking the car is in neutral so it can be started when the clutch is depressed. They also put a relay in there somewhere as when they were testing the starting of it it would not start after a few goes, needed to draw more power i think they said.

Ok can someone please confirm how it should be wired up exactly so i can check with the workshop tomorrow how they did it? Also want to retain cruise control so need to keep this in mind too.

Ah thats where you problem is I feel..... you may have to scrap the cruise for now... I did ! I didnt think you could retain cruise with a manual conversion :confused: Has anyone actually made this work ?????

When i originally picked the car up after the manual conversion the power was down but cruise did work.

Now after going back to N/A temporarily, power is still down and cruise does not work.

If worse comes to worse i will ditch the factory cruise and go with an aftermarket system as i would obviously have the power back first. So can others please confirm how their conversion was wired up?

my manual tj sports has cruise so i cant see why the factory cruise shouldnt work

This is what I did and it work for me..... I followed this from another thread on this forum...... I found that on the inhibitor switch you need the connect Black/yellow and Black/Red together (this is what tricks the ECU into thinking that it is in neutral). Then for the Reverse switch I connect the Black/white wire to the red wire on the reverse light plug the red/blue wire to the red/blue wire on the plug. Its should now start and drive as normal

ive been told the factory cruise will definantly work, i just need the magna back on the road to book it in for the day at the auto eleco

But you don't have it done yet do Ya ?


ive been told the factory cruise will definantly work, i just need the magna back on the road to book it in for the day at the auto eleco

Yeah coz it has a manual ECU and the other bits to make it all work... generally when purchasing a manual conversion you dont get an ECU coz the wiring harness is different to what you find in an auto magna.


my manual tj sports has cruise so i cant see why the factory cruise shouldnt work

But you don't have it done yet do Ya ?

what a catty remark!

Ok thanks guys i've sent my mechanic the link to this thread so let's see what happens tomorrow i guess

Well does he ? Its a really simple question..... has anyone on this forum done a manual conversion and retained the cruise control with an auto ECU

Think you will get your power back tomorrow :D



Ok thanks guys i've sent my mechanic the link to this thread so let's see what happens tomorrow i guess

Yeh i believe wookie has retained cruise with his manual conversion

Cool..... did he use the Auto ECU ? I would luv to know what he did ? Hopefully he jumps in on this discussion and sheds some light on the topic.

Now i know this is a dumb question.. But is timing on the car right..??? But only getting 70 Kw wouldnt be timing i guess.

You need to establish weather is mechanical or electical. Id assume thats the reason the blower is off to illiminate that..?? Now has mechanic checked over to make sure all the mechanics of the engine are doing what they are mnt to be doing..??? Also does the car seem to be right..?? No noises or anything..


I had a massive power loss with my NA.. Got smashed by a stock auto TE Real bad. Turned out to be timing.. There was a little plate down where crank angl sensor is that sheered the pins off. Therefor it twisted and threw timing out..

doesnt the track control link to the abs and ignition to reduce power?
I think its in a confused state hence the power is down. It was mentioned further up.
Engine must be pulling timming and possibly abs also kicking in.
Some how you will need to eliminate the tcl issue first then you may find things will rectify themselves. This is where i would be looking.

Regards

Last service I had they screwed something up and caused my "TCL off" light to flash. Turns out they had only reset 1 of the 2 TPS....could be that. My mechanic said that when they finally caught the error code on their diag computer it also said that the ECU was limiting the engines power because it thought something bad was wrong. My car was suuuuuuper slow when I had the problem (im talkin like 12+ seconds to get to 100).

my cruise works just fine.

this (http://www.aussiemagna.com/forums/showpost.php?p=946316&postcount=130) is what we did. I don't have TCL, so that might be Mohit's problem.

cheers,
.wook

Also did you change the TB out? because the TCL one has an extra solenoid the valve might be stuck shut and only letting the butterfly open part way.

Just dropped the car off again. Plugged in the diagnostic computer and it threw up 5 faults (all solenoid open faults), due to the auto tranny not being there.

The mechanic has done a Magna auto to manual conversion before but that was a 3.0L with no TCL. He said the problem i'm having could be due to the ECU still seeing TCL speed sensors still looking for something which is not there, which is why it's putting the car into limp home mode.

He doesn't have net access at his shop so i'm gonna have to print out this thread for him but he's thinking we might have to try an ECU from a 3.5L manual Magna. Where the hell could i get one of these from?

Thanks wookie for that link i think that's how he's set it up.

magna00, the TB was not changed out during any time of the conversion.

Thanks wookie for that link i think that's how he's set it up.

magna00, the TB was not changed out during any time of the conversion.

You will need a TH/TJ with cruise without TCL, as the solenoid will always be open on a manual i believe

if the TCL light is flashing then it's operating (i.e. retarding timing and pulling fuel, if that's how Mitsu do TCL).

that would be your power problem.

I would remove the TCL fuse and see what happens.

cheers,
.wook

Ignore

if the TCL light is flashing then it's operating (i.e. retarding timing and pulling fuel, if that's how Mitsu do TCL).

that would be your power problem.

I would remove the TCL fuse and see what happens.

cheers,
.wook

It also limits throttle % as well i believe

Mechanic found a split hose that's more than likely causing the air leak, he's taking it for a test drive now

Mentioned to him the TCL fuse issue that wookie posted, he will check that out

Also mentioned to him about the possibility of needing a different TB as magna00 posted, he's gonna check that out as well

my mate had a similar situation when we did the manual conversion on his 4G93 Lancer.

his car lost power aswell and it turned out to be that the engine ECU, once disconnected from the Auto ECU, went into 'limp mode', and it had a static fuel curve.

It kind of went into a holding mode... straining at higher rpm

the problem was, that the engine was given the same amount of fuel regardless of RPM.

So this went on for a couple months, until we found out that that was the problem.

however, it wasnt until the engine developed a misfire... due to some nice pinging...

the engine was rooted not long after that.

not sure if the Magna would be the same, but i would assume so, it might be worth looking into getting a Manual ECU....(if you havent already)

hope this helps the diagnosis a bit.

Hmmm smells like an aftermarket ecu to fix this issue.
I will be very suprised if pulling a fuse fixes this issue.
Will watch this thread with intrest... Hope you sort it.

Regards

Hmmm smells like an aftermarket ecu to fix this issue.
I will be very suprised if pulling a fuse fixes this issue.
Will watch this thread with intrest... Hope you sort it.

Regards

He has a piggyback already and he cant go a full aftermarket ECU due to the sprintex supercharger

He has a piggyback already and he cant go a full aftermarket ECU due to the sprintex supercharger

Personally I would have thought that asisde from the legality of the aftermarket ECU that this would be the ideal option.

Given how the cruise works, there may well be a work around to keep the Crusie active, TCS would go but the rest would be controlled by the ECU and as there is no auto there to control now all the better.

Even something as basic as the Wolf 3d would handle this sort of thing after all I had a wolf on my 13bt running the factory spark distributor etc etc.

Personally I would have thought that asisde from the legality of the aftermarket ECU that this would be the ideal option.

Given how the cruise works, there may well be a work around to keep the Crusie active, TCS would go but the rest would be controlled by the ECU and as there is no auto there to control now all the better.

Even something as basic as the Wolf 3d would handle this sort of thing after all I had a wolf on my 13bt running the factory spark distributor etc etc.

To a point, with the sprintex because he has it on a standard motor etc, cant get rid of the smt6 due to the pulling of timing for heat etc.

To a point, with the sprintex because he has it on a standard motor etc, cant get rid of the smt6 due to the pulling of timing for heat etc.
that could easily be built into any ECU that can utilise the input of the Sprintex temp sensor to retard timing. I'm sure the SMT6 isn't the only piggy back able to do that.

I'm still interested to see what pulling the TCL fuse does.

Went down to the workshop to drop off a print out of this thread but as it turned out it wasn't needed. Mechanic said he found and fixed a leak in the vacuum line running between the cruise control pump and throttle body. He said the power that had been missing was back.

I didn't believe it until i actually drove the car myself. Damn it's quick for a manual N/A (can't wait until the S/C is back on). Cruise control also works and the TCL OFF light has stopped flashing.

I'm gonna drive around manual N/A for a bit just to make sure there's no other issues and also while i'm speaking to Sprintex about sending them the S/C to get checked out for any leaks.

Thanks to everyone who helped with suggestions but luckily it was an easy fix.

Went down to the workshop to drop off a print out of this thread but as it turned out it wasn't needed. Mechanic said he found and fixed a leak in the vacuum line running between the cruise control pump and throttle body. He said the power that had been missing was back.

I didn't believe it until i actually drove the car myself. Damn it's quick for a manual N/A (can't wait until the S/C is back on). Cruise control also works and the TCL OFF light has stopped flashing.

I'm gonna drive around manual N/A for a bit just to make sure there's no other issues and also while i'm speaking to Sprintex about sending them the S/C to get checked out for any leaks.

Thanks to everyone who helped with suggestions but luckily it was an easy fix.

This might of caused the problem with the sprintex as well?

good to hear.
on another point, the only thing you did to get the cruise working, was a switch/relay on the clutch, so
clutch in: ecu thinks P/N
clutch out: ecu thinks D
????

This might of caused the problem with the sprintex as well?
When the Sprintex was not boosting fully the cruise control was working so yeh not 100% sure on that. But since the S/C is off the car i'm gonna get it checked out anyway. Don't wanna put it back on and then take it off again if the problem's still there.

good to hear.
on another point, the only thing you did to get the cruise working, was a switch/relay on the clutch, so
clutch in: ecu thinks P/N
clutch out: ecu thinks D
????
Yup mechanic installed a relay for the inhibitor switch as well. Same as wookie's setup.

Woo Hoo..... I have cruise Back ! :D

So my suggestion of a vacuum leak in post #2 which was ignored by everybody eventually turned out to be correct.....

Interesting...

So my suggestion of a vacuum leak in post #2 which was ignored by everybody eventually turned out to be correct.....

Interesting...
I want to have your children :P

Yeah..... your the man ! Well done.


So my suggestion of a vacuum leak in post #2 which was ignored by everybody eventually turned out to be correct.....

Interesting...

Good to hear its pretty much sorted now. Amazing something so small could cause such a huge issue for you.
Well done...

Woo Hoo..... I have cruise Back ! :D woot :D :thumbsup:

When the Sprintex was not boosting fully the cruise control was working so yeh not 100% sure on that. But since the S/C is off the car i'm gonna get it checked out anyway. Don't wanna put it back on and then take it off again if the problem's still there.


cruise relies on vacuum to operate. When you are boosting, s/c is causing +ve pressure in the inlet, so no vacuum=no cruise. When you are cruising, the cruise should work ok... Maybe a one way valve in the cruise vacuum line would help the issue? Or a small vacuum solenoid.