Hi folks. Just read that NSW will only have E10 and no ULP by 2011


Ethanol kills unleaded petrol
Article from: The Daily Telegraph

EXCLUSIVE by Simon Benson

December 06, 2008 12:00am

OIL companies and petrol retailers will be forced by law to replace regular unleaded petrol with ethanol blends by 2011.

The move could lead to even cheaper fuel for motorists with E10 yesterday selling at up to 10c a litre less than regular unleaded in some western Sydney outlets.

The Daily Telegraph has learned that State Cabinet voted on Tuesday to legislate mandatory ethanol use for the first time in Australia, taking a stick to major players in the industry who have refused to co-operate with what was a weakly enforced mandate.

They plan to completely phase out regular unleaded within three years and replace it with the 10 per cent ethanol blend known as E10.

In a major crackdown on recalcitrant oil companies and the big petrol retailers Coles and Woolworths, 4 per cent of the total volume of regular unleaded petrol sold in NSW from next year must be E10 - a doubling of the current standard. This will rise to 6 per cent in 2010.

But the following year, regular unleaded will no longer be able to be sold in NSW and will be replaced at every bowser with E10.

The more expensive premium unleaded will still be available, leaving motorists with just two choices.

The Government will also mandate 2 per cent bio-diesel for all diesel sold, creating an entirely new local industry for NSW.

It is estimated the E10 policy will reduce total greenhouse emissions by around 2 per cent - or the equivalent of taking 77,000 cars and 1900 buses and trucks off the road.

An estimated 900 new jobs are expected to be created in regional and rural NSW from the expansion of independent ethanol producers.

The mandatory ethanol policy was an election promise of the Iemma Government in 2007.

However, this was the fourth attempt by the Government to get an ethanol bill through Cabinet following objections by ministers including Joe Tripodi and Treasurer Eric Roozendaal to the proposal.

The Daily Telegraph has confirmed that Police and Lands (natural resources) Minister Tony Kelly re-introduced the policy to Cabinet on Tuesday and forced through its approval with the support of Climate Change Minister Carmel Tebbutt.

A Government source said Woolworths and Coles had been "dragging the chain" on ethanol.

Fears that ethanol blends would affect the performance of some vehicles have been dismissed by most experts as myth.


Any issues with the V6 Magna engines?

They say the V6 can handle the fuel, but I'm under the belief that if it wasn't designed to run don't use it.
I'll gladly go for the premium fuel.

I use E10 in my car almost exclusively now, and have been for months, and have not noticed any side-effects. Doesn't seem to affect the car in any way.

I use E10 sometimes and I dont really have any issues with it, except the car feels just a tiny bit sluggish when Im running it. Nothing spectacularly different though. Then when I fill the tank with normal 91ron the sluggishness goes away. Even with a full tank or 91ron my car is nicer to drive than with an almost empty tank of E10.

But if I have no choice then so be it....

I've been going the E10 for last 6 months for so, haven't really noticed anything too bad. But now petrol is cheap, I'll try a bit of 91 over the next month or so to see if there is a difference.

Regards, Tony

i REFUSE to use E10 or Eanything in my cars
i hate it point blank - i have NEVER put any in my car, and intend to contiune that trend.

i rather put 98Ron into my tank than 91E10 - coz at least its a 'full strength' fuel.

fuel seems to be a very sensitive subject on there too - some dont mind, some hate, some say benifits of using X fuel over Y fuel - others dont care much about it.

i REFUSE to use E10 or Eanything in my cars
i hate it point blank - i have NEVER put any in my car, and intend to contiune that trend.

i rather put 98Ron into my tank than 91E10 - coz at least its a 'full strength' fuel.

fuel seems to be a very sensitive subject on there too - some dont mind, some hate, some say benifits of using X fuel over Y fuel - others dont care much about it.

This is not a flame so don't take as one

So why do you hate something you have never tried, if you refuse to use it that's your choice, but to say you hate it point blank is a little closed minded, I've been trying it lately and haven't noticed any side effects at all, if you wish to use 98Ron fine, I've used that as well, but my car was never designed for that either, if I see any downside to using it I'll stop.

But it won't really matter what any of us think, I also remember the argument years ago against unleaded but no one complains about that anymore, anything to make the fossil fuels last a bit longer can't be a bad thing and if it released less CO2 or Carbon all the better

This is not a flame so don't take as one

So why do you hate something you have never tried, if you refuse to use it that's your choice, but to say you hate it point blank is a little closed minded, I've been trying it lately and haven't noticed any side effects at all, if you wish to use 98Ron fine, I've used that as well, but my car was never designed for that either, if I see any downside to using it I'll stop.

But it won't really matter what any of us think, I also remember the argument years ago against unleaded but no one complains about that anymore, anything to make the fossil fuels last a bit longer can't be a bad thing and if it released less CO2 or Carbon all the better

i didnt take it as a flame
i should clarify my above post - iv never put E10 in the rada, iv used it in some of my other cars a few times but was dissapointed by it - in terms of economy and power etc.
my point about using 98 over e10, is i dont mind using that fuel (which granted the engine wasnt designed for either) over e10.

that and i used to work in servos and saw a heap of problems come of it thru customers cars.
mums car is a strange one - its MORE responsive and powerfull on E10 than on normal 91, its an 06 Hyundai Tuscon for those playing along at home.

my therory (used to be at least) that e10 was the same price as regular 91 and we where paying the same price for it and getting less petrol content for it. but these days there is more of a gap between the pricings so my theory now has no weight on that point lol.

I run my wifes Yaris on E10 simply because it was designed from the outset to use it. I too have no probs using it and the raw sugar smell that comes from it, is a bit offputting at times.

So I won't use it in my car but I'll continue to use it in the Yaris.

i run 98 in both cars, outboard, mower, whippersnipper and blower lol

i dont really care what fuel i have in the garden labourers, its just that i fill up the can when im doin the work ute.

i used standard unleaded last week in the ute because my local was changing pumps over (youll see every shell doing this, only 1 98 pump per servo nationally soon) and it ran like ****.

while ever i have the choice ill use 98

i used standard unleaded last week in the ute because my local was changing pumps over (youll see every shell doing this, only 1 98 pump per servo nationally soon) and it ran like ****.

I noticed a similar thing on my 1994 Barina when I had it (the first of the Opel sourced Barinas), running it on 95-98 was a lot smoother and had a bit more go than 91.

Only one 98 pump per servo? That's ridiculous, what about all the euro cars designed to use 98, and that get better fuel economy because of it. Urgh...

E10 burns faster which totally cancels out the savings, better of to run a 98 or 95 premo as its keeps your engine cleaner and you will get most of your extra pennys back in economy.

E10 burns faster which totally cancels out the savings, better of to run a 98 or 95 premo as its keeps your engine cleaner and you will get most of your extra pennys back in economy.
Exactly. Using E10, IMO, is actually a huge con. The tiny bit cheaper the fuel is, is completely canceled out by the fact that you don't get as far for your dollar, so much infact, that you end up paying more for fuel using E10. The whole thing with ethanol blend fuels is to be cheaper. The E10 blend, IMO, should be about 10c cheaper as the 10% ethanol is completely renewable.

im against e10 simply because its created off food.

there was a doco on abc or sbs a little while ago saying how famers in south amercia are cutting into the amazon more and more to make larger crops to sell them off to the oil companies. this results now in the small towns having to import food from over seas which has sent the price sky rocketing.

If all petrol had to have ethanol in it, the price of wheat/sugar/beans/corn etc world wide would sky rocket. Now go check your pantry and see how much of the food in there contains these ingrediants. :doubt:

I've been using E10 for about a year now and definitely have noticed an affect on performance and sometimes she will have a slight hiccup on the freeway. Now, I'm sure if it is directly related but it never in my recollection happen when using ULP and I recenty put in brand new platinum spark plugs because I thought that was causing it. However, given the price now, I will be switching back to ULP but yesterday I put some premum in as a little treat given it is so cheap these days and maybe help clean up the motor and what not. As for economy, I noticed that it chewed more in around town driving but out on the freeway the difference was negligible. But yeah, if E10 becomes mandatory I will live with it or if premium is around the price it is nowadays maybe I will alternate between them or something.

just got back from qld.. took the magna up there....

over 2000 kms i tried e10 and normal unleaded.. i was getting approx. 700kms from a tank on normal unleaded and closer to 600kms per tank on e10.....

E10 burns faster which totally cancels out the savings, better of to run a 98 or 95 premo as its keeps your engine cleaner and you will get most of your extra pennys back in economy.

E10 is a rort.... it should be 10-15 if not 20cents a litre cheaper...at the pump because of the fact it burns faster.

I tried it in the magna.... got 150k's to a tank less when driving up north than a tank of 98.....

I use 98 RON in all my cars.... my car drives and idles smooth as silk....on E10.... it shook at idle like it had a slight misfire never touch that crap again...

And I'm happy to pay the price for 98....

Steve

E10 is a rort.... it should be 10-15 if not 20cents a litre cheaper...at the pump because of the fact it burns faster.

I tried it in the magna.... got 150k's to a tank less when driving up north than a tank of 98.....

I use 98 RON in all my cars.... my car drives and idles smooth as silk....on E10.... it shook at idle like it had a slight misfire never touch that crap again...

And I'm happy to pay the price for 98....

Steve

I found the 91 E10 to use more fuel but found the 95 E10 to be much more economic in my VW transporter than standard 91. Not a big fan of the ethanol tho after reading reports of long term use issues.

i've been thinking about using it in my sports, but reading what a few guys around hear have been saying, it don't think ill use it. Ill stick to my 98ron ;)

I've been using it for about the last 6 months and haven't had any issues at all, I use the 95ron ethanol blend stuff and didn't notice any performance or economy difference

im against e10 simply because its created off food.

there was a doco on abc or sbs a little while ago saying how famers in south amercia are cutting into the amazon more and more to make larger crops to sell them off to the oil companies. this results now in the small towns having to import food from over seas which has sent the price sky rocketing.

If all petrol had to have ethanol in it, the price of wheat/sugar/beans/corn etc world wide would sky rocket. Now go check your pantry and see how much of the food in there contains these ingrediants. :doubt:

I agree completely. It's not fair to use precious food resources to convert into fuel. I especially don't like the use of ethanol for this reason, even apart from the energy / pricing scam aspects. If we need to create synthetic fuels, we could use coal - there's plenty of that left.

I agree completely. It's not fair to use precious food resources to convert into fuel. I especially don't like the use of ethanol for this reason, even apart from the energy / pricing scam aspects. If we need to create synthetic fuels, we could use coal - there's plenty of that left.

So tell me again how coal is a synthetic

http://www.downtoearth.org.in/full6.asp?foldername=20060215&filename=news&sec_id=4&sid=8

The Germans have been turning coal into petrol since World War II.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal#World_coal_reserves

At 2006 rates of production, there's enough coal for 164 years. Australia also has 8.6% of the world's proven coal reserves.

Useless bit of trivia.

Go back some 30 years, V8 guys used to mix ethanol into their petrol to increase the RON rating......

Apart from that - got nothing against E10, even it being made mandatory. As for that much, we are only using the bi-products from food industries.

If we go to E25 Ethanol, we start competing with food, which is bad mmmkay.

Who wants to buy E10 for a couple cents less when petrol is on the way down and is being said it will stay down for a fair while yet.

Who wants to buy E10 for a couple cents less when petrol is on the way down and is being said it will stay down for a fair while yet.


I find it funny that the same 'doom sayers' who were saying that we would see petrol at $2/l before christmas 2007 and $3/l before christmas 2008, are now telling us that petrol prices are down, and will be for quite a while.

Funnier still, people still listen to them lol

Bit of naivity here, and all passion aside, can the advance and verada engines which were made for gas run the E10 without long term side effects and if so would an adjustment in tuning the engine compensate for the rough idling of vehicles with this type of motor?

I once had a TR which used to spit chips if I put 91 ron in it but ran well on 95 and the higher blend of fuel (understandably), motor used to ping and not perform under load.

3rd gen Owners manual says.


Mitsubishi Motors

ETHANOL (GASOHOL)

A mixture of 10% ethanol and 90% unleaded fuel may be used Providing the octane rating is higher than the unleaded octane.

The 380 on the fuel door states that E10 Is safe to use.

I used it for one tank and never again, felt like I was driving a four cylinder engine......

98Ron all the way!

I find it funny that the same 'doom sayers' who were saying that we would see petrol at $2/l before christmas 2007 and $3/l before christmas 2008, are now telling us that petrol prices are down, and will be for quite a while.

Funnier still, people still listen to them lol

Know hey, they run through the streets screaming "I HAVE SEEN THE END, NO ONE WAS SPARED, NOT EVEN THE CHILDREN!!!!"

But still Im a bit wary of E10, I just prefer not to use it. I dont use premium after all the threads on here that say its pointless.

I like my full cream milk and I like my 91 RON petrol. Bah to any thing that's watered down